Maura Murray

Orko Kringer wrote:

<quoted text>
here you go Jenkins.
this is a quote from a murray family source.
"It is a *fact* that LE found a rag in the tailpipe of Maura's car.
It was one of the reasons given to the family on the evening of Wed 2/11/04 that LE believed that Maura was suicidal.
It was the Murray's understanding that LE did not want the info released. Therefore, they never made mention of it except to their pi's .
And, as I have already stated, to my knowledge, it was never reported in the media, which confirms that LE never officially released the information.
The information recently came out on Maura's website www.mauramurray.com because a poster who is a resident of the Haverhill area made mention of it."

Yes it is fact that a rag was found in Mauras tailpipe. CS went to the Ws house that night and asked if the girl with the rag stuffed in the tailpipe had shown up there. LE as well as responders and Lavoies knew this. This was no secret because family was aware of this after talking with those who responded to the scene.This was common knowledge in the beginning of Mauras disappearance and was put out there well before the PIs became involved. It is also in the police log concerning the rag.

citigirl wrote:

<quoted text> Yes it is fact that a rag was found in Mauras tailpipe. CS went to the Ws house that night and asked if the girl with the rag stuffed in the tailpipe had shown up there. LE as well as responders and Lavoies knew this. This was no secret because family was aware of this after talking with those who responded to the scene.This was common knowledge in the beginning of Mauras disappearance and was put out there well before the PIs became involved. It is also in the police log concerning the rag.

read above post please.

On both Feb 9 and Feb 10 there were no suicide theories or abduction/murder/sabatoge theories. The wreck was simply an abandoned car and a possible DUI flee that police had tracked the owner of the car down from. Nothing on those two days would've been off limits from talking about.

It only turned into something else starting Feb 11 when fred made his way to the local area. Then the rules changed as far as the investigation was concerned.

Orko Kringer wrote:

<quoted text>
the info i have came from Woodsville Ambulance.
There were 13 people total
2 from the ambulance company
8 total firemen/women (6 males, 2 females).
Those were the 10 on the list.
The other three were the two responding officers (Smith, monaghan) and the tow truck driver from Lavoie's.

I personally went and interviewed fire and was given a copy from the Woodsville fire company with the names of those whom responded to the scene on that night with there signatures. Its obvious your paper work from Woodsville Ambulance is different than what I recieved from Woodville fire. I believe the people in the fire department. I talked with them and found them to be kind and caring and to this day I belie4ve they are being honest. I have no reson to doubt them. Did you personally talk to EMT responders? Did you personally get your report from them? Fire 6 males 2 females you are incorrect.

Orko Kringer wrote:

<quoted text>
I would definitey say the quote is accurate and made by one murray relative and one family spokesperson, so in those terms, they are legit quotes and legit information.
I haven't found a story that mentions the rag on Feb 11.
But nonetheless, it is possible.
The rag was discovered on Feb 9. At the time there was no investigation underway at all. They had an abandoned car with a possible DUI flee and as long as they got the info of who the car belonged to, the police were content.(and no one that responded to the scene of the accident would've been under any muzzle orders to not talk, because there was nothing unusual at that point.
A day and a half later when Fred gets to the area is when the "DUI flee abandoned car" scenario changes.
Fred had called ahead and noted that he had some very important information to tell police about his daughter which is odd (IMO) because it should be the other way around.
On arrival to the scene of the accident, fred was briefed on what police discovered (what witnesses saw, rag in tailpipe etc). Fred parlayed information to police about his daugther and that is when it turned into an investigation and police requested to the family that they not say anything about the rag.
But those responders to the accident scene on Feb 9, could've already been talking about the rag and the oddity of the wreck and police would've had no control over stopping them at that point.

Who are you quoting and where can I find this quote? Thank you. Although the relationship between LE and family has not been good LE has never requested that family not mention the rag. Family knows who saw the rag and have talked with those involved so I dont know where you are coming from. The rag was no secret.

citigirl wrote:

<quoted text>Who are you quoting and where can I find this quote? Thank you. Although the relationship between LE and family has not been good LE has never requested that family not mention the rag. Family knows who saw the rag and have talked with those involved so I dont know where you are coming from. The rag was no secret.

I am not making up the quotes.

One is from a family spokesperson, the other is from the moderator of the www.mauramurray.com forum (or I should say was the moderator, not sure if that forum exists anymore).

I was curious so I googled the quotes posted by Orko. They are from websleuths by posters Peabody and murraydwyer.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php...

And

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php...

Quoting posts from an anonymous internet forum and using those quotes to support ANY position is perhaps the epitamy of ridiculousness.

The only thing equally absurd is quoting news media articles as a reliable source.

You make me laugh.:)

The major crimes unit had people on scene on the 11th so there clearly must have been some sort of Indication that foul play could have been involved.

Major crimes does not investigate DUI's

Orko Kringer wrote:

<quoted text>
I am not making up the quotes.
One is from a family spokesperson, the other is from the moderator of the www.mauramurray.com forum (or I should say was the moderator, not sure if that forum exists anymore).

I have asked who are you quoting on the WWWMauramissing.com and what did they say? Just because another poster posts does not mean they are a spokeperson for the family.posting 23424"Orko Kringer-the information recently recieved came out on Mauras Website WWW.Mauramurray.com because a poster who is a resident of Haverhill area made mention of it." This forum has not existed for quite some time and is only viewable. So the information you claim you have recieved recently on the WWWMaura website is old news and nothing new.

citigirl wrote:

<quoted text>I have asked who are you quoting on the WWWMauramissing.com and what did they say? Just because another poster posts does not mean they are a spokeperson for the family.posting 23424"Orko Kringer-the information recently recieved came out on Mauras Website WWW.Mauramurray.com because a poster who is a resident of Haverhill area made mention of it." This forum has not existed for quite some time and is only viewable. So the information you claim you have recieved recently on the WWWMaura website is old news and nothing new.

I wish I understand what you are talking about.

I have said all along, "after going over old notes" ...

I have never made the claim that I came across new information.

you guys can argue amongst yourselves on whether or not the quotes that helena murray (one of the two people I quoted) gave are right or wrong.

I have plenty to go off that point that Fred murray is the one who introduced the suicide theory and that the police did not suspect foul play and never have suspected foul play and never will suspect foul play in this case.

Jenkins wrote:

The major crimes unit had people on scene on the 11th so there clearly must have been some sort of Indication that foul play could have been involved.
Major crimes does not investigate DUI's

Just because Major Crimes was interested in the case doesn't mean there was ever any intention of prosecuting anyone. Sometimes they're the highway, sometimes they're the roadblock.

Orko Kringer wrote:

<quoted text>
I wish I understand what you are talking about.
I have said all along, "after going over old notes" ...
I have never made the claim that I came across new information.

The info you posted you claimed that information recieved recently came out of Mauras website.You later on said it was old news. You did not specify that these were old postings that you just recently read.

citigirl wrote:

<quoted text>The info you posted you claimed that information recieved recently came out of Mauras website.You later on said it was old news. You did not specify that these were old postings that you just recently read.

I have had these postings for years in a file.

I spent many hours friday night going over old notes (which include accident reports, telephone logs, police requests with names and phone numbers, internet forum postings and a heap of old news articles).

I don't think I have been misleading at all. And the quotes are real and the people I pulled quotes from are who they say they are.

Orko Kringer wrote:

you guys can argue amongst yourselves on whether or not the quotes that helena murray (one of the two people I quoted) gave are right or wrong.
I have plenty to go off that point that Fred murray is the one who introduced the suicide theory and that the police did not suspect foul play and never have suspected foul play and never will suspect foul play in this case.

So you have "plenty" to go off indicating Fred introduced the suicide theory and that le have never suspected foul play?
Please tell us.
The only thing I've ever seen is the squaw walk comment which there is clearly debate as to whether or not he ever even really said that.

So what else you got? I'd love to hear it

Orko Kringer wrote:

you guys can argue amongst yourselves on whether or not the quotes that helena murray (one of the two people I quoted) gave are right or wrong.
I have plenty to go off that point that Fred murray is the one who introduced the suicide theory and that the police did not suspect foul play and never have suspected foul play and never will suspect foul play in this case.

As has been stated many, many times on this website and others, Maura Murray's case has been taken up by the New Hampshire Cold Case Unit. This is lifted directly from its website:

"In the past 40 years there have been approximately 120 homicide victims whose killers have not yet been brought to justice. On July 29, 2009, Governor John Lynch signed into law HB 690, establishing for the first time in the state's history a Cold Case Unit assigned to work exclusively on unsolved murder cases. The New Hampshire Attorney General is the chief law enforcement officer for the state with exclusive jurisdiction over homicide cases. Most of the state's homicides are investigated by the New Hampshire State Police Major Crime Unit. However larger cities, such Concord, Dover, Keene, Manchester, Nashua, and Portsmouth, investigate homicides occurring within their jurisdictions."

"The Cold Case Unit was organized in the Fall of 2009 to combine the experience of the Attorney General's Office, the Major Crime Unit, and a city detective. The Unit is staffed with a prosecutor and three detectives who will focus on reviewing unsolved homicides, unresolved suspicious deaths, and missing person cases in which foul play is suspected in the person's disappearance."

Doesn't seem to gibe with your statement that the police have never suspected foul play.

Then there's this under the FAQ section:

The following are the elements of a cold homicide case in New Hampshire:

1. The case involves a homicide (or suspected homicide in which the cause of death is undetermined but is suspected to be homicide or the victim is missing and suspected to be murdered).

2. The case is "unsolved," meaning in general that no one has been charged and convicted for killing the victim. However, a case may not qualify as "unsolved" even though no one has been convicted of the homicide for a number of reasons.

a. A case is not considered "unsolved" if there is evidence establishing the guilt of the suspect beyond a reasonable doubt (such as a confession, eyewitness identification, DNA, or other forensic evidence) but the suspect could not be brought to trial because he or she died.

b. A case does not qualify as "unsolved" if there was compelling evidence of guilt but the original suspect was tried and acquitted or could not be prosecuted for technical reasons. For example, a suspect may have been acquitted, or not prosecuted, because the killing was self-defense, or otherwise justified, or a confession or other conclusive evidence of guilt was excluded from the trial.

3. The original investigation did not result in an arrest, and the case remained inactive for more than one year due to a lack of viable or unexplored leads. A cold case may have been reactivated periodically over the course of time because new leads emerged. If the case was dormant for one consecutive year during any period of time prior to September 1, 2009, without any active investigation, the case will be considered a cold case. However, cold cases do not include all cases that have been dormant for more than 1 year. For example, the suspect may be incarcerated on other charges and for strategic reasons the police or prosecutors decided not to lodge criminal charges while the suspect was incarcerated.

Jenkins wrote:

<quoted text>
So you have "plenty" to go off indicating Fred introduced the suicide theory and that le have never suspected foul play?
Please tell us.
The only thing I've ever seen is the squaw walk comment which there is clearly debate as to whether or not he ever even really said that.
So what else you got? I'd love to hear it

Fred never denied the "Squaw walk" comment.

Fred said that police misunderstood him.

Whitman-Hanson Express
March 2008

Haverhill officer Cecil Smith says Murray told him Maura was “depressed” over a previous accident and that he hoped she wasn’t “doing the old squaw walk,” a euphemism for suicide.

Murray denies saying his daughter was depressed and claims the squaw comment was taken out of context.

Mystery Reader wrote:

Then there's this under the FAQ section:
The following are the elements of a cold homicide case in New Hampshire:
1. The case involves a homicide (or suspected homicide in which the cause of death is undetermined but is suspected to be homicide or the victim is missing and suspected to be murdered).
2. The case is "unsolved," meaning in general that no one has been charged and convicted for killing the victim. However, a case may not qualify as "unsolved" even though no one has been convicted of the homicide for a number of reasons.
a. A case is not considered "unsolved" if there is evidence establishing the guilt of the suspect beyond a reasonable doubt (such as a confession, eyewitness identification, DNA, or other forensic evidence) but the suspect could not be brought to trial because he or she died.
b. A case does not qualify as "unsolved" if there was compelling evidence of guilt but the original suspect was tried and acquitted or could not be prosecuted for technical reasons. For example, a suspect may have been acquitted, or not prosecuted, because the killing was self-defense, or otherwise justified, or a confession or other conclusive evidence of guilt was excluded from the trial.
3. The original investigation did not result in an arrest, and the case remained inactive for more than one year due to a lack of viable or unexplored leads. A cold case may have been reactivated periodically over the course of time because new leads emerged. If the case was dormant for one consecutive year during any period of time prior to September 1, 2009, without any active investigation, the case will be considered a cold case. However, cold cases do not include all cases that have been dormant for more than 1 year. For example, the suspect may be incarcerated on other charges and for strategic reasons the police or prosecutors decided not to lodge criminal charges while the suspect was incarcerated.

This means absolutely nothing.

according to these guidelines, maura's case fits because it is unsolved.

I think that is pretty obvious some eight years later.

Because there has not been a body recovery, the case can't be classified as anything other than unsolved.

coeur de lion wrote:

<quoted text>Just because Major Crimes was interested in the case doesn't mean there was ever any intention of prosecuting anyone. Sometimes they're the highway, sometimes they're the roadblock.

Very interesting post right there.

What I was trying to say Is this: At some point between 7:30 on the 9th and the mornin of the 11th somebody in LE mus have thought that there was a distinct possibility foul play was involved in this case.
During the winter in NH people crash cars all the time an leave them on the side of the road, this is a daily occurrence in the north country.

If LE thought that this was simply another car that got abandoned after a a crash, or a DUI, nobody from major crimes would have been there on the 11th
Major crimes does not investigate car crashes, they don't investigate dui's either. They only investigate major crimes such as murder, kidnappings, etc.