Maura Murray

FrmLE wrote:

Ooops, I gotta go give a speach, good luck to all you crazy kooks. later

getting a little warm in here for ya chief? Is that what you are saying ? ooops there I go again.

Lighthouse 101 wrote:

<quoted text>
I had to wiki "excited utterances" and I learned something new yesterday.

Interesting. I was told I have never taught anyone anything. Thanks for letting me know. Of course the people that should have checked what that means probably didn't. There is a major difference between those that want to know truth and search for it, and those that know the answers and don't need to learn anything. I think that it is great that you still seek the truth and knowledge.

Bill

amy researches wrote:

<quoted text>
Thanks anyway.

Are you saying thanks for nothin? Is that what your saying? lol

JWB wrote:

Frmle stated tonight that (they didn't search a mile east) was innacurrate.

FRMLE quote:

"I would not say that 112 to the East was not checked, how far I don't know but to say that they didn't even drive a mile up the road is not accurate to my knowledge."

amy researches wrote:

<quoted text>
Are you saying what am I saying?!?!? I'm gonna have to advise myself not to talk to you.

Thats what I'm talkin about!

FrmLE wrote:

<quoted text>
Define "The search". Would that include either CS or the Trooper driving up 112?
Where was Maura abducted from? Her car?

In what direction was the trooper coming from while driving up 112?

Wow, so now frmLE says they did look to the east?
I find that interesting, especially after all these years of him saying that they shouldn't have looked east, and they didn't have to and all that trash, now he's saying they did?? Weird

Bottom line is that they had 3 separate cars all drive to the west to look for her. There is no excuse to not send one of those cars to the east, unless they had a compelling reason to only look west.

I still feel that they had some sort of information that night telling them to look to the west, why else not look east?
You have 3 cars there, and there's basically 3 directions to look: east, west and up bhr. Logic would dictate that each car take one direction, but they didn't do that.
Instead they all looked west, I wonder what led them to do that?
Could it have been the same witness who saw the red truck parked on the side of bhr with its door open? Was this what also caused the interest that le had in trucks, specifically red trucks, that evening?

FrmLE wrote:

<quoted text>
Justify the actions. I would say that is somewhat accusatory, I think it would be more accurate to say that the cops did what they always do in the same situation. Call it policy, Standard operating procedure, or just plain common sense.
Let me ask you this, what SHOULD the police have done? And whatever your answer is, are you ok with that same procedure being done on every situation we encounter just like this? Will you tolerate the cost in real dollars, tax dollars, that will surely result from that change in policy?
That's a fair question I think.

I dont know the normal procedure for NH. Does LE cruise the roads during there shifts or do they just stay at the station and only respond to calls?

Another thing that tells me that they weren't looking for her on foot is the fact that the sbd went looking for her at all.
He clearly says that he thought she was intimidated by him, and that's when he was in his school bus. Well if he then came upon her in his private vehicle wouldn't she be scared shitless??
It makes absolutely no sense that he would go out looking for her if they thought she was on foot.

Another thing is the fact that he went down to french pond to check the ice fishing shantys. Why would he do that? How could she possibly know where French pond is and that there are ice fishing shantys on it?
That's something locals know about, not some college girl from mass.
That makes me think that they weren't looking for her on foot, but rather looking for her where someone, a local most likely, would take her.

Think about it, sbd says she was scared of him, so why is he looking for her at all if they thought she was on foot? Then they don't look to the east but instead he drives down to French pond to check out fishing shantys??
None of that adds up if they were looking for her on foot.
It appears that they knew that night that she had been picked up by someone.

FRMLE why would a BOL be put out to fire units and not LE?

Jenkins wrote:

Another thing that tells me that they weren't looking for her on foot is the fact that the sbd went looking for her at all.
He clearly says that he thought she was intimidated by him, and that's when he was in his school bus. Well if he then came upon her in his private vehicle wouldn't she be scared shitless??
It makes absolutely no sense that he would go out looking for her if they thought she was on foot.
Another thing is the fact that he went down to french pond to check the ice fishing shantys. Why would he do that? How could she possibly know where French pond is and that there are ice fishing shantys on it?
That's something locals know about, not some college girl from mass.
That makes me think that they weren't looking for her on foot, but rather looking for her where someone, a local most likely, would take her.
Think about it, sbd says she was scared of him, so why is he looking for her at all if they thought she was on foot? Then they don't look to the east but instead he drives down to French pond to check out fishing shantys??
None of that adds up if they were looking for her on foot.
It appears that they knew that night that she had been picked up by someone.

Jenkins I've read that he checked French Pond road but I don't remember seeing that he checked the shantys. Could you provide a link to that info please?
Also Mountain Lakes (FPR area) has many MA people living there. Mostly weekend second homes. That would be the first place that I would head to find a driver from MA.
If memory serves me wasn't it the SBD's wife that said because of his looks and size he might have been seen as intimidating or something like that? If I'm wrong I'm sure someone will be right along to correct me.

Jenkins wrote:

If you read witness accounts it really doesn't sound like she was very worried about the police showing up.
Yea she asked the sbd to not call police but that doesn't necessarily mean that she was trying to avoid them. She got in a minor one car accident, why did she need the police for? All the cops do in these situations is make something that is really simple take a really long time, it's a wicked pain in the ass when the cops show up for a minor accident.
After sbd went to his house Maura did a few things; she went to her trunk a couple times to get her stuff together, and then sat there with her door open for a few minutes "leisurely smoking", leisurely being the keyword there. She may have been using her phone, or maybe she was smoking, but either way she was sitting there for a few minutes with her door open.
That doesn't exactly sound like someone who is really tryin to avoid to police due to a possible DUI.
If she was truly trying to avoid police She could've grabbed her stuff and been out of there in under a minute, which Is exactly what you would expect from someone who was tryin to avoid police.
But she didn't do that, she takes her time to get her things from her trunk and then sits there for a few minutes, most likely trying to get a cell signal.
Nothing about that sounds like a drunk person who is seriously tryin to avoid the police, does it?

It's been said that she didn't smoke and there is no signal there so she wasn't using her phone.
She was stuck in the snowbank with a damaged car. If she didn't want the police to help her then how did she expect to get her car unstuck. Lets not forget that she refused help and didn't go to any of the 5 houses that were in sight to use a phone to call a towtruck or a friend to help her.I think she was very worried about the police showing up.

Wowzer the real one wrote:

<quoted text>
Jenkins I've read that he checked French Pond road but I don't remember seeing that he checked the shantys. Could you provide a link to that info please?
Also Mountain Lakes (FPR area) has many MA people living there. Mostly weekend second homes. That would be the first place that I would head to find a driver from MA.
If memory serves me wasn't it the SBD's wife that said because of his looks and size he might have been seen as intimidating or something like that? If I'm wrong I'm sure someone will be right along to correct me.

You are correct it was SBDS wife/girlfriend not sure exactly what the relationship of B was to SBD. It was she that said his size could have been intimidating. To my knowledge SBD only drove down French pond road on that night looking for the female.

Wowzer the real one wrote:

<quoted text>
It's been said that she didn't smoke and there is no signal there so she wasn't using her phone.
She was stuck in the snowbank with a damaged car. If she didn't want the police to help her then how did she expect to get her car unstuck. Lets not forget that she refused help and didn't go to any of the 5 houses that were in sight to use a phone to call a towtruck or a friend to help her.I think she was very worried about the police showing up.

Cell phone service was sporatic in that area in 2004. I racall being at the tree with the posters on it and there was no service but if you moved a couple of feet away from the tree there was service. There was also service in SBDS yard in 2004. Responders had stated to me and others they didnt understand why she didnt just get in her vehicle and just drive off. If her car was stuck in a snowbank I dont believe the responders would have told us she could have just driven off.

Wowzer the real one wrote:

<quoted text>
It's been said that she didn't smoke and there is no signal there so she wasn't using her phone.<quotedtext>

maybe she was trying to use her phone? Doesn't have to work to try to find a signal.
Maybe she only smoked when she drank? like a lot of college girls do?
So what are you saying that the wman's were making this up? Tim thought it was a phone, faith thought it was a cigarette. What the light truly was doesn't matter in the slightest, what matters is that she sat there for a few minutes with her door open. Faith described her as sitting there "leisurely smoking".
Who sits there leisurely doing anything when they're seriously trying to avoid police?

<quotedtext>She was stuck in the snowbank with a damaged car. If she didn't want the police to help her then how did she expect to get her car unstuck. Lets not forget that she refused help and didn't go to any of the 5 houses that were in sight to use a phone to call a towtruck or a friend to help her.I think she was very worried about the police showing up<quotedtext>.

Since when do police tow the car out of the snowbank?? It's not like the cops pull it out themselves, a tow truck does that. There is absolutely no need for police to call the tow truck or to even be at the scene of a one car accident. She was under no legal obligation to stay at the car. Especially up northern nh it might take a long time for the cops to show up, maybe an hour. It took smith 19mins to get there and he was a local cop in the same town who wasn't on a call. There is no need to sit on the side of the road waiting for a cop to show up.

She was a young girl, maybe she didn't feel comfortable just walking up to one of the 5 houses to ask to use a phone. She had just passed a store I would think that she'd rather use a pay phone there then go knocking on doors.

But I do find it strange that she didn't seem too concerned with finding a ride, that makes me think that there was somebody possibly tracelling with her that she was expecting to drive by any minute.

Just because you think she was very concerned about the cops showing up doesn't mean that it's true. In reality that statement just doesn't fit with the witness accounts of what she did after the crash. Remember, if she was really worried about the cops showing up she could have grabbed her things and been out of there in less than a minute. She could have tried to get cell service or smoked her cigarette down the road somewhere, but she didn't. She chose to leisurely sit there in her car with the door open for a few minutes doing whatever she was doing, not the actions of someone who is really worried about the cops showing up, not at all.

Maybe she was trying to use her phone? Doesn't have to work to try to find a signal.
Maybe she only smoked when she drank? like a lot of college girls do?
So what are you saying that the wman's were making this up? Tim thought it was a phone, faith thought it was a cigarette. What the light truly was doesn't matter in the slightest, what matters is that she sat there for a few minutes with her door open. Faith described her as sitting there "leisurely smoking".
Who sits there leisurely doing anything when they're seriously trying to avoid police?

Hey orko- there's something I'm not understanding about your comment on the the family's opinion of the investigation.
If the family really thought she committed suicide then how critical of the investigation can they really be? Critical of a suicide investigation?
While I'm sure almost every family in similar situations is critical of the investigation the Murray family has some serious legitimate gripes with this investigation.

From where I'm sitting it appears to me like the Murray family truly believes she got abducted and have some legitimate complaints about how her case was handled.
You really think that they said that as a ploy to get the cops to investigate her suicide more thoroughly? Le has put in literally thousands of hours of work into this case, they have a file that's something like 6,000 pages deep, they've pulled records, done grand jury subpoena's and even did some sort of one-party intercept/recording. This has to be the most investigated suicide of all time right? Do you think that Le generally puts this much time and effort into cases they believe are simply suicides?

One big question: if she killed herself WHERE THE HELL IS HER BODY?!?!?
Seriously now, are there any other suicide cases you can name where they couldn't find the body for 8.5 YEARS?? Has anybody ever heard of anything like that?
Do you think she intentionally tried to hide her own body and why?
Are there any suicide cases anybody can think of where the person went to lengths to attemp to hide their own body? I've never heard of anything like that, not saying its never happened but it's clearly extremely unusual.

You theorize that she was planning on going to a favorite hiking trail to kill herself correct? And the accident changed those plans? Am I gettin this right?
Well wouldn't her body have been found on a hiking trail or top of a mt somewhere?
Do you think she decided to just randomly walk straight into the woods or something? Even if she did that how far do you really think she could have gotten? There was 2'+ snow in the lowlands, much more as you get into higher elevations; how far do you really think she could've walked through that wearing jeans and tennis shoes? Her shoes and the bottom of her jeans would have been packed with snow after about 5 steps. If she left umass with that intention wouldn't she have at least packed some boots so she could maybe walk into the woods with all that snow? Remember that this a youn girl who considered it a challenge to climb these mts in the summer, why would she now think he can suddenly climb the same mts in the dead of winter wearing only jeans and tennis shoes? How does that make any sense?

I'm sorry but if you look at this objectively I don't see how you can reach any other conclusion then at this point the suicide theory has very little merit. If she killed herself WHERE THE HELL IS HER BODY?!?!?

Jenkins wrote:

<quoted text>But I do find it strange that she didn't seem too concerned with finding a ride, that makes me think that there was somebody possibly tracelling with her that she was expecting to drive by any minute.

You really still don't get the mindset of these people who run from crashes.

Bill

Advocate wrote:

Just to add to the matter about what she took with her on the trip north to NH, she reportedly did have a backpack with her that was not found in the car. So presumably she took the backpack when she left the vicinity of the car.
What could have been in the backpack?
.

How does anyone know she Positively had the backpack with her?Was it on the ATM video?Did SBD see it?

Jenkins wrote:

If she killed herself WHERE THE HELL IS HER BODY?!?!?

Wow. Another simple answer if you knew the area. The White Mountain National Forest is larger than the state of Rhode Island with very few roads and trails. It's more of a miracle that they find as many people as they do. Very big forest, very tiny people in comparison.

Bill