Maura Murray

This is the person I was thinking about. To my knowledge he has still not been found, and the search area was "relatively small" and lots of people were searching for him. That is one off the top of my head. And yes, it was five years not a couple.

http://www.wildlife.state.nh.us/Newsroom/News...

Bill

WTH-the-original wrote:

<quoted text>
Personally, most of my searches have been in CT and yes, we or other have always found our subject. I have participated in some other in VT, NY, MA and NH and with the exception of the Lear jet which was eventually stumbled upon years later, by accident, that was found also. There is at least one search that I remember recently in NH, a hunter that to my knowledge has still not been found, a couple of years, or more in what should be a "relatively" small search area. People do disappear and sometimes do not show up for a very long time. They didn't get transported or dematerialize (except those out long enough to decompose or otherwise break down). When you search for someone is when you realize how small they are and how big the world is. Patric was found after a massive search after a few days and he was only 2 miles away and half the search area didn't even need to be searched because they had a very good idea which direction he traveled. Finding people is not as easy as many others think. There was never a search for Maura of the intensity that they had for Patric or even that Lear jet for Maura. No where near as big, or coordinated. They also have a confusing PLS/LKP because of the second sighting. If you believe the second sighting, why waste what few resources you have near the car. If you don't then they should have either kept searching areas of attraction near the car, or expanding the search area around the car. We have no idea what they did, what they thought the POA were, or what POD they think they have. With the exception of the hasty searches done that night (I should also point out that 97% of people found are found during the hasty search phase of the search) and the searches done by a couple of the dog teams and in particular the one coordinated by USFS, I have serious questions about the quality of what was done.
Bill

I agree searching for those missing is not as easy as people think.

not sure why my links to maura's car were taken down, but I will try again.

If you can open this, scroll down and you can not only see detailed photos of maura's car (post-wreck) but also the last two photos showing where her car ended up after she wrecked on Rt. 112.

http://www.google.com/imgres...

If someone is intentionally scrubbing my posts, then please have the nuts to address my individually.

Orko Kringer wrote:

If someone is intentionally scrubbing my posts, then please have the nuts to address my individually.

Bill knows alot about postholeing Maybe he knows about scrubbing posts.

This post falls at random - but I just have to say, I read this quote today at work, and I thought of WTF/WTH Bill.

"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts." Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, A Scandal in Bohemia.

This is entirely off-topic, but I want to share - mainly because Amy is, I know, a paralegal here in Chicago, and may find this amusing.

There are about 900 A.S.A.'s in Chicago.(Assistant State's Attorney). One of them, a real charmer of a colleague, made a total ass of herself outside of a sex store in the Clark/Belmont area of Chicago.

http://www.inquisitr.com/344255/chicago-prose...

She's an embarrassment to the office. And whipping out her badass ASA badge? Oh, soooo cool. Only in Chicago.

WTH-the-original wrote:

<quoted text>
Personally, most of my searches have been in CT and yes, we or other have always found our subject. I have participated in some other in VT, NY, MA and NH and with the exception of the Lear jet which was eventually stumbled upon years later, by accident, that was found also. There is at least one search that I remember recently in NH, a hunter that to my knowledge has still not been found, a couple of years, or more in what should be a "relatively" small search area. People do disappear and sometimes do not show up for a very long time. They didn't get transported or dematerialize (except those out long enough to decompose or otherwise break down). When you search for someone is when you realize how small they are and how big the world is. Patric was found after a massive search after a few days and he was only 2 miles away and half the search area didn't even need to be searched because they had a very good idea which direction he traveled. Finding people is not as easy as many others think. There was never a search for Maura of the intensity that they had for Patric or even that Lear jet for Maura. No where near as big, or coordinated. They also have a confusing PLS/LKP because of the second sighting. If you believe the second sighting, why waste what few resources you have near the car. If you don't then they should have either kept searching areas of attraction near the car, or expanding the search area around the car. We have no idea what they did, what they thought the POA were, or what POD they think they have. With the exception of the hasty searches done that night (I should also point out that 97% of people found are found during the hasty search phase of the search) and the searches done by a couple of the dog teams and in particular the one coordinated by USFS, I have serious questions about the quality of what was done.
Bill

Then I wonder why the offer by TexasEqusearch was refused?

mcsmom wrote:

<quoted text>
Then I wonder why the offer by TexasEqusearch was refused?

Everyone who sees TES on TV is impressed. What type of expertise do you think they would have brought to a search in NH? I am just curious, how many people do you think they have actually found?

Bill

WTH-the-original wrote:

<quoted text>
Everyone who sees TES on TV is impressed. What type of expertise do you think they would have brought to a search in NH? I am just curious, how many people do you think they have actually found?
Bill

Texas EquuSearch has been involved in 1,300+ searches in approximately 42 states in the United States, Aruba, Sri Lanka, Mexico, Jamaica, Dominican Republic and Nicaragua. Our efforts have proven successful with returning over 300 missing people home to their families safely, many of which would have been deceased. Texas EquuSearch is responsible for recovering the remains of 137 missing loved ones, bringing closure to many families. Many of the 136 cases have resulted in criminal cases. At no time during any of the searches was evidence compromised by Texas EquuSearch. Therefore, the suspect(s) were brought to justice resulting in convictions. Additionally, Mr. Miller has been involved in several murder trials.

Orko Kringer wrote:

not sure why my links to maura's car were taken down, but I will try again.
If you can open this, scroll down and you can not only see detailed photos of maura's car (post-wreck) but also the last two photos showing where her car ended up after she wrecked on Rt. 112.
http://www.google.com/imgres...

Thanks Orko, these are better. Still doesnt look like it hit a tree IMHO.

I've watched the WMUR video several times in conjuction with the accident diagram by CS. The WMUR video cannot see any tracks in the snow left by a vehicle making contact. So which tree(s) did she supposedly hit?

WTH-the-original wrote:

<quoted text>
First saw that word in a Dr. Dobbs journal in 1983. It was in vogue word in programming because of him back then. Yep, I had to look it up first time also.
Bill

Him who? Dennis or Bob?

Interesting bill- thanks for that info.
So, if I understand this correctly, 97% of people are actually found during the original hasty search?

What do you think the percentage of people that are never ever found are? I would thinks its gotta be under 1%, a very small #. Would you agree with that?
I wonder what percentage of young pretty girls who are missing more than a few days end up as murder cases...I would think that number would have to be higher than 1%, probably much higher but that is pure speculation. I want to try to find that # actually....

Never did understand why any and all outside NH expertise offered was refused.
Walsh, FBI etc...those of you here since 2004 know the rest of list...

I agree that It doesn't sound like their ground searches for MM were all that intense, but they're really not saying so really it's hard to say. To me it sounds like there was an intensive ground search for the two square mile area near the WB, if I'm remembering correctly.
One has to wonder why, if they actually think she might be in the woods, they didn't conduct more ground searches. In many missing persons cases where they think the person may be lost in the woods they'll call out for volunteers from the community and literally have hundreds of people searching the woods. I always wondered why they didn't do anything like that.
Not only did they not do any large ground searches like that they also turned down the help of Texas equisearch, which to me indicates that they do not believe Maura is going to be found in the woods, at least not anywhere near the crash site. Something else is the fact that TES really doesn't need LE's permission to conduct a search, nobody needs anyone's permission to search the woods. Obviously I could be wrong about this, it's been known to happen, but I would think that the NHSP probably gave TES a pretty damn good reason as to why they'd just be wasting their time by going out an searching the woods. If Tim miller thought his team could produce results I'm sure her would've done it. I believe they actually even had dates scheduled to come search for Maura that were cancelled. What did LE tell them that made them cancel? You would think it must've been something.
When you hear scarinza talk pretty much the only thing he sounds confident about is that Maura is not in the woods anywhere near the crash scene.
The WMNF is HUGE, but they had a particular advantage, fresh snowfall. Scarinza states that it was perfect for tracks.
He personally flew in the SP helicopter the whole length of 112 up to n Woodstock and saw no human trails leading into the woods. He goes into some detail describing what he could see and what he could see through the FLIR; he specifically states he could see footprints and animal tracks; but no trail leading into the woods that was made by a person.
I think this is where the NHSP gets their confidence that she is not in the woods. They has the advantage of fresh snowfall so they didn't have to search the entire WMNF, only the sides of the roads looking for a trail leading into the woods.
If there's no trail then it's impossible for her to be in the woods. Now don't get confused, I'm not saying its impossible that they missed the trail, but judging from his statements he sounds rather confident that he didn't.
So unless Maura was an expert backwoods survivalist who was adept at covering her tracks for some reason it would seem pretty unlikely she's in the woods anywhere near the crash site, or along the length of 112 for that matter, at least according to the NHSP investigators working the case. And I agree with them.
Besides, she was a young beautiful girl, she could've caught a ride with just about anyone on the road that night.
What makes more sense? A young girl flagging down a ride or a young girl trudging through 2'+ of snow wearing tennis shoes and jeans all the while not leaving any noticeable trail?
Remember occam: the simplest answer is usually the correct one. The simplest answer here is that she simply caught a ride. What happened after that is anyone's guess. But going by what her friends and family say about her; how loyal of a friend she was and whatnot, it seems to me like her meeting up with foul play is a very real possibility.
No big conspiracy, nothing complex at all, she got picked up by the wrong person who happened to be a sick fuck and viewed it as a once in a lifetime opportunity; and opportunistic killer if you will.
All known info mostly points to her catching a ride, and that would make sense. Theres obviously no evidence she was killed but judging from what her family and friends have said about her it seems like a very likely possibility

I just read Renner's latest post on Beagle. This is just my opinion but I think that under the circumstances it would have been wise to just say he's been positively identified. I don't see the need to say who identified him.
Posters that have been on this forum for awhile know that I'm totally against putting someone's full name or address or any personal info on a public forum. It could be very dangerous for the person that's outed and that includes anyone.
While I understand that Renner is upset with Beagle and with good reason I fail to see what it accomplishes to make public his full name and DOB.

amy researches wrote:

<quoted text>
I agree. Nothing good can come of it. And it's certainly not moving his supposed search for Maura along, as far as I can tell.
Interesting that charges are mentioned but no conviction. Leads me to believe the charges were dismissed. Meaning there was insufficient evidence and/or he was innocent. Not that this matter has any bearing on MM either way. But I think if he'd been convicted of anything that Renner would be quick to mention that.
And where are these threats that Beagle is supposedly posting all over the place? I've seen Beagle threatened a few times but not the other way around.
Yet another instance of poor journalistic integrity in my opinion.

Amy, I quite agree. And I think it's reprehensible to say he was charged with something because that "suggests" that he was guilty without clarifying.

Initially I was supportive of Renner's quest to find out what had happened to Maura. I felt that as a journalist, he was in a good position to investigate, and in fact he has turned up some interesting points and cleared up a few things. But I don't agree with his penchant for putting names out in public and permitting or creating inferences that are not proven and/or can't be proven.

I looked at Renner,s site. Could you give me the initials of the name. There were no names. Thank you very much.

Beagle continues to pushing buttons and boundaries and he is getting called out for it plain and simple. Nobody wants to say it like it is and tip toes around the whole issue. Beagle has brought the whole thing on himself and nobody else is to blame.

JMHP but when you out someones name and put personal information about them on an internet forum that you have no idea who is reading the forum then you aren't just putting their safety in jeopardy but you are also putting the safety of their family and friends they may be close to in jeopardy.
In the past there has been a couple of very scary posters here and one wanted to go on a hunting spree and hunt someone down. Bottom line is I think it's absolutely wrong to out someone.