Maura Murray

WTH-the-original wrote:

<quoted text>
To be honest citigirl, I'd send him $100 if he'd stop about this. But I will defer to you, who I am fairly certain is family on this. The offer stands though. You find a way to do this anonymously and I will print and mail (100 to 250 depending on cost) posters of your design and send them to you, providing it can all be done anonymously for you and me.
Seriously,
Bill

thank you for the good laugh. thank you for your generous offer. It is greatly appreciated. Posters have been made by family,friends and people from all around and NH. If JWB came on and said I would like to help could you please supply me with posters I would have contacted those with posters and sent them to him.

The only posters I've ever noticed were stapled to telephone poles along 112 during the winter of 08-09, iirc, maybe 07.
They plastered the road; it was like every other pole for miles east of the WB curve until you really started getting up the mt into the notch. Well these posters were up for a while through the winter, they stayed up just fine through the wind and rain of winter. Maybe a few blew away but they looked liked they stayed up fine to me.

And then one day in the spring: poof! All gone, pretty much overnight. I didn't drive the road for like 2 days and they were all gone.
I got the sense they put up so many signs because they were being taken Down.
There was a lot of posters On those poles, somebody went to considerable effort to take them all down.
Who would do that? Why would they care so much to go through that much effort to rip down that many posters?
You would imagine its someone that feels guilty about the whole thing and got tired of lookin at the posters every day on the way to work or whatever.
Could be the perp, could just as easily be a cop too, maybe feels guilty about not being able to solve the case?
Either way you lnow the nhsp are worried about their image & the state's image. When thinking about LE's reaction to this case you always have to consider the fact that NH has a tourism based economy and Maura was a young girl from mass. You gotta figure they're worried about this blowing up into a scandal like natalee holloway in Aruba or something. We all know how the public likes to over-react to perceived threats that aren't always exactly legitimate. Although most people would be much safer up NH than their hometown in CT or MA there's still that public perception. People wouldn't want to go vacation in NH if they thought there was some killer on the loose killing young girls from mass.
The NHSP clearly was concerned about this, at the beginning this case was covered by nancy grace. I used to watch her, I can't anymore; gotten way too sentatialized. Well I wrote the show complaining that they would talk about the same case over & over, why not cover mauras case more?
Well a producer emailed me back & said that they wanted to do more on MM but that the cops wouldn't talk to them. They said without LE's cooperation they don't have much new to talk about & the reason they pick many of their stories is bc the cops will talk to them.
The NHSP would not talk to them.
The NHSP would love if this case was just forgotten altogether. IMO They know foul play was involved, I was shocked they finally kind of admitted it by placing her on the CCU list, I thought that was a huge step. But the NHSP will never admit they think a crime happened, never admit any evidence of a crime, even if there is, until there's a suspect in cuffs.
This is why I'll just never understand someone like orky's argument that they're lying about there being no evidence she intended to commit suicide but they're telling the truth about there being no evidence of foul play. There's no logical reason for them to lie about suicide and they got every reason in the world to lie about foul play.

One thing is clear, somebody has taken down a lot of missing posters over the years, that is a fact. The question is who and why

jwb wrote:

a simple - "Hey JWB thanks for offering to put up posters for Maura. We will get you the posters you need".Thats it!!- just a simple olive branch to accept the help offered is all but it is apparently not wanted.I am not looking for any thanks or pats on the back but a mere reaching out to accept the help that I was willing to offer. I am over and done with it .
Citigirl doesn't even know who what where or when posters where put up.

Sir:

Can you....please....stop with the badgering of Citigirl?

Maybe you don't see it. We all have 'blind spots.' So please, think about it. Ponder about the last dozen or so posts that you have made (especially the ones directed at her)- were they in good taste? Were they polite, kind, and sensible posts that you would want written to yourself/your child/your loved ones? Or were they bordering on belligerent? Were they uncalled for?

Even if you do feel slighted by her, in some fashion, through the posts that she has made - does that give you carte blanche to openly badger her - to be so argumentative, as to alienate any posters left who were trying to defend you?

Don't do it for the kudos. Don't do it for the 'thanks'. Do it because it's the right thing to do.

Or, quite frankly, you shouldn't be doing it at all.

Jenkins I honestly dont believe that LE would take down Mauras posters.

I sometimes read your posts to the end. I think you've misstated my opinion. I don't believe there has been physical evidence to suggest abduction or suicide, and dogs losing track of her scent seems to be inconclusive by the method of the scent object used.
I lean toward the simplest explanation, that she disappeared into woods. Those "woods" could be near or far, depending on whether or not she accepted a ride. Her disappearance into woods would at least be supported by the fact that no evidence of her body has been discovered, which presumes succumbing to the elements and / or the ravages of wildlife. Again, just an opinion, a wild guess.

My post above is in response to Jenkins.

citigirl wrote:

Jenkins I honestly dont believe that LE would take down Mauras posters.

Hard to say, I do tend to agree with you on this point though. I like to think they wouldn't and didn't take down her posters.
I was more offering that up as another possibility to someone who might take em down that isn't a potential perp.
I'm finding it hard to find a motive for some average citizen to go out of their way and take the time to take down like 50 missing posters.

I suppose it's just yet another of the weird things about this case that just makes no sense. Seems like it could be sinister, but maybe not too.

The only clear thing is that someone has rather systematically taken down Maura's missing posters and it wasn't her family.

OKAY wrote:

I sometimes read your posts to the end. I think you've misstated my opinion. I don't believe there has been physical evidence to suggest abduction or suicide, and dogs losing track of her scent seems to be inconclusive by the method of the scent object used.
I lean toward the simplest explanation, that she disappeared into woods. Those "woods" could be near or far, depending on whether or not she accepted a ride. Her disappearance into woods would at least be supported by the fact that no evidence of her body has been discovered, which presumes succumbing to the elements and / or the ravages of wildlife. Again, just an opinion, a wild guess.

I think you misunderstood snowy, I said orky's opinion, not okay's opinion.. I can see how you confused that though. Orky had said on several occasions that he believes LE is lying about there being evidence of suicide, such as a suicide note on her computer. But then he believes them when they say they have no evidence of foul play. My only point on that is there is no reason at all to lie about evidence of suicide, in fact it would make their lives a hell of a lot easier if there was a suicide. On the other hand they have all sorts of reasons to lie about evidence of foul play, which includes not letting a potential perp know that they're on to him. If they can convince the guy they don't believe she fell victim to foul play that might get the guy to let his guard down and make some sort of mistake.

But for the record, I wasn't stating your opinion snowy I was stating orky's. & btw, I've been trying to make my posts shorter in general

BobJenkins-OG wrote:

<quoted text>The only clear thing is that someone has rather systematically taken down Maura's missing posters and it wasn't her family.

And of course, this is clearly not clear. Has anyone been seen or reported to have been removing posters? Or is it like so much here. Created for intrigue with no evidence to back it up?

Bill

WTH-the-original wrote:

<quoted text>
And of course, this is clearly not clear. Has anyone been seen or reported to have been removing posters? Or is it like so much here. Created for intrigue with no evidence to back it up?
Bill

It is rather clear actually.
As far as I know nobody has been caught taking down any posters, but we know they were taken down so somebody must be taking em down.

That's why I gave the example of the only posters I've ever really seen. They were there, probably about 50 of em. They were actually up for a month or two but then in a 2-3 day window they were gone, every single one Somebody took them down and took considerable effort to do so.
So the only posters I've ever seen I know for a fact were taken down by somebody.

I'd estimate an easy 95% have been taken down rather quickly.
The family put up many many posters early on. I lived in the area at the time and I never saw one except on the ribbon tree. The only ones I saw, on the poles along 112, were definitely taken down.

this isn't created for 'intrigue' like you suggest bill, that's completely ridiculous actually. We want the missing posters up, somebody is taking them down, that is clear.
The question is who and why, not whether or not it happened. You saying something like that makes it look like your saying that just to be argumentative about it, not actually figure out what happened or figure out any sort of reasonable explanation. We know this happened, we are askin why, not if.
Maybe there's some people that would like to create intrigue, but for most people there's already more than enough mystery and intrigue to this case without making up more shit.
The other point is that maybe there's some people that wanna do that, but not citigirl. It's blatantly obvious she tries to tell it like it is, to the best of her knowledge and ability and does not want more intrigue added to this already baffling case. When she says there's been many missing posters put up and they get taken down, I tend to think she's not saying that to create intrigue; that's ridiculous to suggest actually.

BobJenkins-OG wrote:

<quoted text>
I think you misunderstood snowy, I said orky's opinion, not okay's opinion.. I can see how you confused that though. Orky had said on several occasions that he believes LE is lying about there being evidence of suicide, such as a suicide note on her computer. But then he believes them when they say they have no evidence of foul play. My only point on that is there is no reason at all to lie about evidence of suicide, in fact it would make their lives a hell of a lot easier if there was a suicide. On the other hand they have all sorts of reasons to lie about evidence of foul play, which includes not letting a potential perp know that they're on to him. If they can convince the guy they don't believe she fell victim to foul play that might get the guy to let his guard down and make some sort of mistake.
But for the record, I wasn't stating your opinion snowy I was stating orky's. & btw, I've been trying to make my posts shorter in general

OMG, Jenky, I admit you are right and I am wrong! I misread Orky for OKAY. I'm losing my edge!!:)

BobJenkins-OG wrote:

<quoted text>
It is rather clear actually.
As far as I know nobody has been caught taking down any posters, but we know they were taken down so somebody must be taking em down.
That's why I gave the example of the only posters I've ever really seen. They were there, probably about 50 of em. They were actually up for a month or two but then in a 2-3 day window they were gone, every single one Somebody took them down and took considerable effort to do so.
So the only posters I've ever seen I know for a fact were taken down by somebody.
I'd estimate an easy 95% have been taken down rather quickly.
The family put up many many posters early on. I lived in the area at the time and I never saw one except on the ribbon tree. The only ones I saw, on the poles along 112, were definitely taken down.
this isn't created for 'intrigue' like you suggest bill, that's completely ridiculous actually. We want the missing posters up, somebody is taking them down, that is clear.
The question is who and why, not whether or not it happened. You saying something like that makes it look like your saying that just to be argumentative about it, not actually figure out what happened or figure out any sort of reasonable explanation. We know this happened, we are askin why, not if.
Maybe there's some people that would like to create intrigue, but for most people there's already more than enough mystery and intrigue to this case without making up more shit.
The other point is that maybe there's some people that wanna do that, but not citigirl. It's blatantly obvious she tries to tell it like it is, to the best of her knowledge and ability and does not want more intrigue added to this already baffling case. When she says there's been many missing posters put up and they get taken down, I tend to think she's not saying that to create intrigue; that's ridiculous to suggest actually.

Yep, strong winds, horizontal rain in the area, that couldn't possibly be the reason posters come off of trees. And again, your evidence of no one seeing anyone take down the posters is at your usual high standard of proof.

Just like your "proof" of never seeing a poster. Is that because there weren't there or you just not particularly observant? You always insist that the road unseen is the road that should be traveled, again I can only assume for the drama, since nothing you state has any facts to base it on. At least we have stopped calling this invisible person taking the posters down a "perp". I guess that is one small victory. Unless, can the wind be considered a "perp"?

Bill

BobJenkins-OG wrote:

<quoted text>
It is rather clear actually.
As far as I know nobody has been caught taking down any posters, but we know they were taken down so somebody must be taking em down.
That's why I gave the example of the only posters I've ever really seen. They were there, probably about 50 of em. They were actually up for a month or two but then in a 2-3 day window they were gone, every single one Somebody took them down and took considerable effort to do so.
So the only posters I've ever seen I know for a fact were taken down by somebody.
I'd estimate an easy 95% have been taken down rather quickly.
The family put up many many posters early on. I lived in the area at the time and I never saw one except on the ribbon tree. The only ones I saw, on the poles along 112, were definitely taken down.
this isn't created for 'intrigue' like you suggest bill, that's completely ridiculous actually. We want the missing posters up, somebody is taking them down, that is clear.
The question is who and why, not whether or not it happened. You saying something like that makes it look like your saying that just to be argumentative about it, not actually figure out what happened or figure out any sort of reasonable explanation. We know this happened, we are askin why, not if.
Maybe there's some people that would like to create intrigue, but for most people there's already more than enough mystery and intrigue to this case without making up more shit.
The other point is that maybe there's some people that wanna do that, but not citigirl. It's blatantly obvious she tries to tell it like it is, to the best of her knowledge and ability and does not want more intrigue added to this already baffling case. When she says there's been many missing posters put up and they get taken down, I tend to think she's not saying that to create intrigue; that's ridiculous to suggest actually.

Bobfather - if you take your arguments and look at them as an Algebraic equation you constantly change the value of "x" as many times as you feel like it just to try to solve the equation. However everyone can see that you changed the value of "x" so many times that the equation no longer makes sense.

citigirl wrote:

<quoted text>not all of them. many have helped hang up posters through out the years.

I'm afraid I'm not going to be much help. I've talked to three people that work/worked in Lincoln/N.Woodstock and traveled from Woodsville area each day.
Except for one that thought they saw a poster back then by 112/116 the other two don't even remember seeing any. All three said it was hard to believe that anyone would deliberately take down a poster of a missing person.
To be honest I travel these roads often and I've never seen "lots" of posters on poles or trees. If my memory is correct I saw two, one on BHR and one on 112. As I stated earlier these two were most definitely taken down by Mother Nature.
JMHO but I think putting signs on poles and trees is a waste of time. How many times do people traveling at 40-50 mph stop their vehicle and get out to read a poster tacked to a pole? If I wanted to put up posters that would be noticed I'd put them at the start of hiking trails, grocery stores, post offices,sporting goods stores etc. And if I really wanted to put one up on a roadway I'd put it at a stop sign or stop light where people can stop and read.

BobJenkins-OG wrote:

The only posters I've ever noticed were stapled to telephone poles along 112 during the winter of 08-09, iirc, maybe 07.
They plastered the road; it was like every other pole for miles east of the WB curve until you really started getting up the mt into the notch. Well these posters were up for a while through the winter, they stayed up just fine through the wind and rain of winter. Maybe a few blew away but they looked liked they stayed up fine to me.
And then one day in the spring: poof! All gone, pretty much overnight. I didn't drive the road for like 2 days and they were all gone.
I got the sense they put up so many signs because they were being taken Down.
There was a lot of posters On those poles, somebody went to considerable effort to take them all down.
Who would do that? Why would they care so much to go through that much effort to rip down that many posters?
You would imagine its someone that feels guilty about the whole thing and got tired of lookin at the posters every day on the way to work or whatever.
Could be the perp, could just as easily be a cop too, maybe feels guilty about not being able to solve the case?
Either way you lnow the nhsp are worried about their image & the state's image. When thinking about LE's reaction to this case you always have to consider the fact that NH has a tourism based economy and Maura was a young girl from mass. You gotta figure they're worried about this blowing up into a scandal like natalee holloway in Aruba or something. We all know how the public likes to over-react to perceived threats that aren't always exactly legitimate. Although most people would be much safer up NH than their hometown in CT or MA there's still that public perception. People wouldn't want to go vacation in NH if they thought there was some killer on the loose killing young girls from mass.
The NHSP clearly was concerned about this, at the beginning this case was covered by nancy grace. I used to watch her, I can't anymore; gotten way too sentatialized. Well I wrote the show complaining that they would talk about the same case over & over, why not cover mauras case more?
Well a producer emailed me back & said that they wanted to do more on MM but that the cops wouldn't talk to them. They said without LE's cooperation they don't have much new to talk about & the reason they pick many of their stories is bc the cops will talk to them.
The NHSP would not talk to them.
The NHSP would love if this case was just forgotten altogether. IMO They know foul play was involved, I was shocked they finally kind of admitted it by placing her on the CCU list, I thought that was a huge step. But the NHSP will never admit they think a crime happened, never admit any evidence of a crime, even if there is, until there's a suspect in cuffs.
This is why I'll just never understand someone like orky's argument that they're lying about there being no evidence she intended to commit suicide but they're telling the truth about there being no evidence of foul play. There's no logical reason for them to lie about suicide and they got every reason in the world to lie about foul play.
One thing is clear, somebody has taken down a lot of missing posters over the years, that is a fact. The question is who and why

Bob I think you might be exagerating just a bit. I travel 112 often and I have never ever seen it plastered with signs. I would think that would be quite noticeable. I've spoken to three people that travel to work in Lincoln/North Woodstock and they don't remember seeing all those posters that you claim to have seen.
If someone was going around ripping them down why were they allowed to stay up for two months during the winter as you say. Don't you think by spring any posters would have been worn and tattered from the wind,rain and snow and just blew away?

Wowzer the real one wrote:

<quoted text>
Bob I think you might be exagerating just a bit. I travel 112 often and I have never ever seen it plastered with signs. I would think that would be quite noticeable. I've spoken to three people that travel to work in Lincoln/North Woodstock and they don't remember seeing all those posters that you claim to have seen.
If someone was going around ripping them down why were they allowed to stay up for two months during the winter as you say. Don't you think by spring any posters would have been worn and tattered from the wind,rain and snow and just blew away?

I'm not exaggerating at all in the slightest bit, they were there during the winter of 08-09 for sure and there was a real lot of em too.

Some posters I'm sure would get blown down, but in a two day window? Every single one? That makes no sense at all.

Somebody definitely took down those posters.

I agree that telephone poles alon 112 Arent the most effective spot to place them but I believe they were put there to make a point, and because they'd been taken down in the past.

The fact they were there is the 100% truth. Your saying you didn't see them, either you didn't drive that road during that one month or two window or your lying about it, there is no other option.
Probably wasn't even two months they were up, more like one month. They were all doin just fine one the poles, they weren't ripping or falling off in the slightest bit, and then one day...all gone.
Somebody took those posters down, the question is who.
The wind and rain did NOT blow those specific posters down

BobJenkins-OG wrote:

<quoted text>
I'm not exaggerating at all in the slightest bit, they were there during the winter of 08-09 for sure and there was a real lot of em too.
Some posters I'm sure would get blown down, but in a two day window? Every single one? That makes no sense at all.
Somebody definitely took down those posters.
I agree that telephone poles alon 112 Arent the most effective spot to place them but I believe they were put there to make a point, and because they'd been taken down in the past.
The fact they were there is the 100% truth. Your saying you didn't see them, either you didn't drive that road during that one month or two window or your lying about it, there is no other option.
Probably wasn't even two months they were up, more like one month. They were all doin just fine one the poles, they weren't ripping or falling off in the slightest bit, and then one day...all gone.
Somebody took those posters down, the question is who.
The wind and rain did NOT blow those specific posters down

What strategic value do you think there would be to remove posters of someone who went missing five years ago?

BobJenkins-OG wrote:

<quoted text>
I'm not exaggerating at all in the slightest bit, they were there during the winter of 08-09 for sure and there was a real lot of em too.
Some posters I'm sure would get blown down, but in a two day window? Every single one? That makes no sense at all.
Somebody definitely took down those posters.
I agree that telephone poles alon 112 Arent the most effective spot to place them but I believe they were put there to make a point, and because they'd been taken down in the past.
The fact they were there is the 100% truth. Your saying you didn't see them, either you didn't drive that road during that one month or two window or your lying about it, there is no other option.
Probably wasn't even two months they were up, more like one month. They were all doin just fine one the poles, they weren't ripping or falling off in the slightest bit, and then one day...all gone.
Somebody took those posters down, the question is who.
The wind and rain did NOT blow those specific posters down

Bob wrote:**Maybe a few blew away but they looked liked they stayed up fine to me.
And then one day in the spring: poof! All gone, pretty much overnight. I didn't drive the road for like 2 days and they were all gone.**
Bob you are contridicting yourself. First you say that you're sure some posters would get blown down and then you say that the wind and rain did NOT blow these specific posters down.
Then you say that they were up in the winter of 08-09 for sure and then one day in the spring Poof they were all gone. Bob that sounds like more than two months to me but yet when I mentioned that I and others never saw 112 plastered with these posters you change your timing and say that maybe it was more like one month.
Do you see why your posts are confusing? You keep changing things that you stated to suit your needs at the time.

Wowzer-.
How could that possibly sound like more than two months to you? Did you not read any of those posts that your referring to & quoting?? Every one I said they were up during the writer of 08-09 and estimated 1-2 mos they were up. In my post today I thought about it and estimated that they were probably up for closer to one month than two. But that's still right in that 1-2 month range that I've said in ever post so in reality I didn't change anything. Are you sure your not playing stupid and creating confusion where there really isn't any?
I didn't change the timing at all, I've said 1-2 mos in every post, saying it was probably closer to a month isn't exactly changing anything. I would say they were up at least a month, probably like 5-6 weeks.

whyare you idiots still harping on this after 5 years, get a life, and move on. it is what it is! you people must be bored to death talking about this!