Maura Murray

JWB wrote:

Thank you BillNH for telling us that he ribbon was missing.That was very caring of you.

Welcome!

JWB wrote:

<quoted text>
Yea I see your point, I don't really see an area to go very far off the road at all. I can see poss trying to evade LE at some point but until you get past 116 those posts are few and far between unless you go up a driveway etc..

Is this just your assumption?

Shack wrote:

<quoted text>I have never doubted his loyalty.

Thats the most interesting comment anyone has ever made on a missing person forum. "Loyalty"

FrmLE wrote:

<quoted text>
As much as I would love to find out Maura is living somewhere with her 'hunky boyfriend', the modern real world we live in makes that possibility so rare it is almost impossible.
Do some people disappear and start new lives? Yes, it happens on very rare occasions.
However consider several factors.
* Maura's age and lack of real world savvy. Let's face it, she may have been a smart girl but she couldn't make it at West Point, she couldn't even buy her own Pizzas at UMass, nor could she figure out how to scam a Pizza from someone else without getting busted.
* Her lack of Money. Starting a new life takes money, lots of it. Money for stuff like, food, gas, clothes, rent, security deposit, car, insurance, etc. She had what,$400?
To start a new life in such a manner that almost 10 years later she remains invisible? Highly unlikely.
* She had no help. Ok she may have had a secret boyfriend or whatever, but if she disappeared, then THAT person muct also have disappeared. That person would have the same problems Maura would have, lack of money lack of assistance, etc.
What are the chances of that happening and no one noticing that 2 people have up and vanished?
* The fact that people who have families that care about them are willing to make those loved ones believe they are dead, maybe have been kidnapped, killed, etc. Do you think Maura hated her family so much that she would let her MOther go to her grave not knowing she was alive?
Possible, but VERY DOUBTFUL.
* Add to that the modern world we live in, the reliance on Social Security numbers, personal Identification, fingerprints, etc.
How could Maura get a Passport, a Drivers License? How could she open a bank account with no ID? How could she get a job, make a paycheck, get a credit card, etc?
Considering her age, lack of maturity, lack of resources, lack of assistance, lack of money, and the world we live in today the chances she disappeared and is alive is in my opinion about equal to her being abducted by Bigfoot on an Alien spaceship.
Though it would be nice if she were alive.

If MM did run off into the woods would it be ruled a suicide or an accidental death?

JWB wrote:

<quoted text>
Bill, I won't go into detail about poster (family) but I will only say that if you feel something should be done then you should do it yourself. Very weird is all I can say.

BillNH JWB is referring to me. JWB came on hsre claiming to help in the search for Maura about a year ago. Wanted me to travel to NH and bring him posters.I explained my situation as to why I no longer had the fundings to do what I had done before. WTH graciously offered to anonomously send me money to have posters printed to give to JWB.I was very greatful and appreciative as to what WTH offered. But you must also stop and think I have no clue who JWB is at all.Why would I travel hours to hand a complete stranger posters? Maura is missing and has never been found.

Shack wrote:

Citigirl...I recall the coat story...didn't you turn it inside out and your pockets were flapping in the breeze?
I still smile to myself about that vision.

It was the warmest coat I ever bought. Bought it to stay warm up north. After that weekend I chose safety over warmth.

FrmLE wrote:

Regarding the searches, the 2.5 feet of snow, etc etc etc.
Listen for a second ok. Yes the police searched the area around the crash site, and no she did not enter the woods in that area. That much is a given.
What you are NOT CONSIDERING is that in the time Maura had she could have gotten several miles down the road. Now consider that the searches focused on the area around the crash site and no search was so extensive that it contained the possible area where Maura could have easily ran to or walked to.
I see how you continue to place great faith in that helicopter search. It is not that thorough, the equipment is not that sensitive. It is far from a guarantee. It is like how people think a dog tracking a scent is a guarantee. It is not, it is a tool sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't work.
Again, this is why it really helps to trust the opinion of people who have conducted searches, who have been in the woods looking for people, as opposed to someone who has never been on a wilderness search in their life.

Think outside the box for a moment, if it is possible.

This post, while making some good points, is also rather misleading. Mainly to the fact of how easy she could've gotten into the woods, how much snow there was & the effectiveness of a helicopter search.
I'm not going to pretend that I've been on wilderness searches, but then again how many staties have been too? & I'm not talking like assisting and helping a little bit, how many staties do wilderness SAR especially during the winter? That's why searches aren't tasked to the NHSP but rather to the F&G department. the majority of searces are obvioiusly conducted and manned byy the F&G and SAR exper personell, you're average state trooperi is out wrting tickets & humping calls, not taking part in wilderness searches.
But FrmLE is right, we should go by what the experts who actually did it have to say; certainly not some dude on the internet. We have 2 different NHSP Lt's that were there for the F&G search, obviously because of the potential criminal case.
Both of them made comments about not only the depth of the snow, but also about how perfect the conditions were for tracking. Scarinz said they 'couldn't be better'. It's next to impossible for there to be BETTER conditions for findng someone lost in the woods than there was for those 2 weeks following her crash. Scarinza himself flew in the chopper and in addition to spotters they made use of FLIR and he makes a point of descrbing how well they could actually see from flying just above the treetops. Remember that they didn't have to search the whole woods, they only had to make sure that nobody ENTERED the woods.
Scarinza actually goes into great detail desribing what he can see and talks about how he could see game trails, animal tracks and human prints clear as day and they saw no evidence that any human entered those woods. They flew the whole length of 112 from 302 to N woodstock. This obviously isn't fool proof but under the right conditions like they had it's pretty reliable.

This is why Scarinza, who was actually there, actually took part in the search said he's confident she's not in those woos anywhere near the crash scene. Listen to interviews with him, he doesn't sound very sure about much in this case, that's the one thing that he actually sounds confident in. There's even interviews where he says flat out that he believes she caught a ride from the scene.
This is why the NHSP has stated on the record that they believe she caught a ride from the immediate area. THat's really the only thing that makes sense and it makes sense that the real poffesional investigators who actually worked this case for real and have spoken about it on record have all said that .

FrmLE wrote:

Regarding the searches, the 2.5 feet of snow, etc etc etc.
.
Again, this is why it really helps to trust the opinion of people who have conducted searches, who have been in the woods looking for people, as opposed to someone who has never been on a wilderness search in their life.

Think outside the box for a moment, if it is possible.

This post, while making some good points, is also rather misleading. Mainly to the fact of how easy she could've gotten into the woods, how much snow there was & the effectiveness of a helicopter search.
I'm not going to pretend that I've been on wilderness searches, but then again how many staties have been too? & I'm not talking like assisting and helping a little bit, how many staties do wilderness SAR especially during the winter? That's why searches aren't tasked to the NHSP but rather to the F&G department. A case like this the NHSP would obviously assist more because of the potential criminal nature of this case but the majority of searces are obvioiusly conducted and manned byy the F&G and SAR exper personell, you're average state trooperi is out wrting tickets & humping calls, not taking part in wilderness searches.
But FrmLE is right, we should go by what the experts who actually did it have to say; certainly not some dude on the internet. We have 2 different NHSP lieutenants that were there for the F&G search, obviously because of the potential criminal case.
Both of them made comments about not oly the depth of the snow, but also about how perfect the conditions were for tracking. Scarinz said they 'couldn't be better'. It's next to impossible for there to be BETTER conditions for findng someone lost in the woods than there was for those 2 weeks following her crash. Scarinza himself fleew n the chopper and in addition to spotters they made use of FLIR and he makes a point of descrbing how well they could actually see from flying just above the treetops. Remember that they didn't have to search the whole woods, they only had to make sure that nobody ENTERED the woods.
Scarinza actually goes into great detail desribing what he can see and talks about how he could see game trails, animal tracks and human prints clear as day and they saw no evidence that any human entered those woods. They flew the whole length of 112 from 302 to N woodstock. This obviously isn't fool proof but under the right conditions like they had it's pretty reliable.

This is why Scarinza, who was actually there, actually took part in the search said he's confident she's not in those woos anywhere near the crash scene. Listen to interviews with him, he doesn't sound very sure about much in this case, that's the one thing that he actually sounds confident in. There's even interviews where he says flat out that he believes she caught a ride from the scene. Lt. Bruno and another team from F&G did the same exact thing the following week ''jjust to make sure they did everything twice' so they could say with a fair certainty that she isn't in the woods.

This is why the NHSP has stated on the record that they believe she caught a ride from the immediate area. THat's really the only thing that makes sense and it makes sense that the real professional investigators who actually worked this case for real and have spoken about it on record have all said that they believe she caught a ride.

It's just intersting that this guy who claims to be ex-nhsp says so much stuff that directly contradicts what the real investigators that really worked this case for the NHSP have said on the record, I wonder why that is...

And I'm not sure who FrmLE is talking about when he says he doesn't think people consider that she could've made it several miles, she was a cross country runner, one of the best in Mass in HIgh school and college, that's pretty damn good.

So obiviously she could've made it a long distance and fairly quickly too, but then why the hell would she enter the woods then? FIrst of all the further she gets up 112 the further nto the notch she gets where there is much more snow and much tougher terrain, nothing like the woods down at the bottom near the WB curve..

And the story is she was scared of the cops, hence the running all these miles right? Well why the hell would she have entered the woods then after running all these miles? At that point she made it- she got away from the scene without getting in trouble, so now she's gonna go into the woods after she already got away? Just THINK, that doesn't make any sense. Why would anybody do that? Enter the woods after getting away? Then what? Yea she could've run miles, but then it makes no sense to enter the woods..

And also FrmLE said 'do you think she would've cared if she got her keds wet' LOL, this is such a mileading statment. As if walking throught 2.5' of snow is simple, it just gets your feet a little wel... That is so ridiculous. Walking through that much snow is EXTREMELY difficult and time consuming wearing regular winter gear, forget about it wearing sneakers and jeans. WIthin the first couple steps the bottom of her jeans and her sneakers would've been PACKED wth snow, it's not just wet feet like FrmLE's trying to lead people to believe, this is extremely PAINFUL. Her feet would've been FREEZING, her whole body woule'vee been screaming at her to turn back, she would've been FREEZING..Remember that the SBD said she did not appear intoxicated but was shivering. She was already shivering after being out of the car 5 minutes; does anyone TRULY think that she was then thinking that she was gonna go iiinto the woods ar that point insted of catching a ride in a nice warm car? Especially with a seemingly nice person who stopped to offer to help?

Ask any cold weather outdoor expert and see what they tell you for how far they think she would've made it wearing jeans and sneakers, It doesn't matter what anyone says it's a fact that what she was wearing would make a huge difference. Even wearing snowboots she wasn't making it anywhere far into the woods without snowshoes, that's why people where snowshoes and its not because they're worried about getting their feet wet.
Also if she ran miles up into the notch she would've been dealing with probably 3'+ of snow and GIANT snowbanks. That whole theory sounds nice whe FrmLE is telling it in his biased kind of way, but if you THINK about it critically and more important HONESTLY it really makes no sense at all. She was not super-girl, she was not an expert mountaineer, we're talking about a girl who considered it a major achievement to hike to the top of a mountain ON A TRAIL in the SUMMER. Now she's running miles at night and then walking deep into the woods through 3' of snow, let's be for real people.

THe only thing that really makes sense is that she caught a ride, this is what LE thinks, this is what her family thinks, even the SBD thought it, it seems pretty much everybody thinks this except a few random weirdos on topix who seem to have some sort of weird agenda..

THe helicopter search isn't 100%, and neither are the dogs,, but when you combine both of their results together they paint a pretty strong picture that she caught a ride from the scene. THen on top of that you have what the real professioals who were on the scene have to say and it becomes pretty obvious that she caught a ride.

FrrmLE actually was all full of misleading statements today, again he makes a lot of good points i'll admit that, but then washes over so many key points that it's just hard to believe it's not intentional, maybe it's just denial like is exhibited on this thread left and right.

Something else is the window of oppurtunity for an abduction to occur. We have no idea where she might have come across someone who wished to do her harm. SHe has just driven 3 hours up 91, anywhere along that route someone could've noticed that she was a young pretty girl who was out on the road all alone in a crappy car far from home and thought she looked vulnerable. Shit, for all we know Beagle could've been stalking her in Amherst before she even left, how else would he know about any damage to the saturn? I'm just saying that she was out there all alone and was vulnerable, a predator would be watching for just that and started following her and got lucky when she crashed cuz now he could offer her a ride, be there to 'save' her.

She also was on the side of the road for almost 20 minutes, it's not entirely impossible a predator could pass by. THink of all the other women that have been murdered under very similar circumstances over the years, out alone on the road at night, what were the chances of a predator passing by right then? But it happened, i'm sure it'll happen again if this case don't get solved.
Think of Pamela Webb on the maine tpk in 89, iirc. She got a flat tire, and in the time it took her to change her tire she got abducted, her remains were found brutally murdered days of weeks later in Franconia, that's a stone's throw from where Maura went missing. What were the chances of that guy passing along right then?? But it sure did happen. It's been threorized, and I agree, that the killer must have lived somewhere in the Franconia area bc killers usually dump bodies in areas they're familiar with, bc they know the lay of the land and kknow where they'll probably have privacy.

To say she didn't get abducted because of the small window of oppurtunity is just like sayng that she isn't in the woods because she would've been found by now, that's just faulty reasoning plain and simple. Only difference is that FrmLE can't point out one case of someone who got lost in the woods and it took a decade to find the body, i think there might be one or 2 cases in NH where it took several years to fnd the body but this has got to be one of the longest. I would put money down that it's by far the longest in snowy conditions like this, longest by far.
So there's pretty much no cases in all of NH where someone never gets found in the woods but yet there's multiple unsolved homicides that are very similar to maura's dissapearance, women getting mutdered while out on the road. Could be the same guy that killed pamela webb and now he's gotten better at hiding the bodies bc he's worried about all the new forensic technology..

I'm sorry to say it but in reality it's more likely that she got abducted by someone who offered her a ride than for her to be lost in the woods for 9 years and go unfound, that's just cold hard numbers that can't be disputed.

Besides for the fact that in this country, going by the numbers, a young woman like maura is far more likely to be a victim of foul play if she's been missin more than a certain length of time, like a week or 2, than anything else. THat's another unfortunate fact.

So to say that she didn't get abducted bc the chances of a predator passing rright then are low is just totally wrong. If that was true then nobody would ever get murdered, no women would ever be abducted

Given that the unusual evidence provided to Brianna's parents is similar to the unusual bag o stuff provided to Maura's family, I'm going to claim that UMASS was a set-up just like Brianna's. Furthermore, I believe that Maura's charachter was impugned at West Point. What happened to her there, and is it out of character for her too? Did West Point throw the book at her for something she didn't do? Seeing how she got set up at UMASS, maybe she got set up a West Point. So much effort was made to make this girl choose 'bad decisions' when in reality she was likely being targeted. If this is true, then the timeline has Maura first, Patric second, and Brianna third, in terms of premeditation. These crimes start in premedition, in Maura's case currently what is the crime? leaving an 'accident'? Yeah Right!

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Live from Utica wrote:

Given that the unusual evidence provided to Brianna's parents is similar to the unusual bag o stuff provided to Maura's family, I'm going to claim that UMASS was a set-up just like Brianna's. Furthermore, I believe that Maura's charachter was impugned at West Point. What happened to her there, and is it out of character for her too? Did West Point throw the book at her for something she didn't do? Seeing how she got set up at UMASS, maybe she got set up a West Point. So much effort was made to make this girl choose 'bad decisions' when in reality she was likely being targeted. If this is true, then the timeline has Maura first, Patric second, and Brianna third, in terms of premeditation. These crimes start in premedition, in Maura's case currently what is the crime? leaving an 'accident'? Yeah Right!

Ok it's a quiet Saturday at work and I'm bored so I will bite even though I know I will either get no answer or a non-coherent or a cryptic answer.
How were they set up? By whom were they set up? And to what end were they set up?

BillNH wrote:

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Ok it's a quiet Saturday at work and I'm bored so I will bite even though I know I will either get no answer or a non-coherent or a cryptic answer.
How were they set up? By whom were they set up? And to what end were they set up?

Oh wait....I already know the answer...Bruce McKay!!

Live from Utica wrote:

Given that the unusual evidence provided to Brianna's parents is similar to the unusual bag o stuff provided to Maura's family, I'm going to claim that UMASS was a set-up just like Brianna's. Furthermore, I believe that Maura's charachter was impugned at West Point. What happened to her there, and is it out of character for her too? Did West Point throw the book at her for something she didn't do? Seeing how she got set up at UMASS, maybe she got set up a West Point. So much effort was made to make this girl choose 'bad decisions' when in reality she was likely being targeted. If this is true, then the timeline has Maura first, Patric second, and Brianna third, in terms of premeditation. These crimes start in premedition, in Maura's case currently what is the crime? leaving an 'accident'? Yeah Right!

Patric was in 03, Maura and Brianna were in 04.

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Scarinza couldn't find His way out of a paper bag with arrows pointing to the opening. Also He is a racist.

Four mega posts from Jenkins today. What a treat.

Live from Utica wrote:

So much effort was made to make this girl choose 'bad decisions' when in reality she was likely being targeted.

What bait do you think was used to get Maura to go through the trash to get someone else's cc number?

Jenkins - neither of you will be able to convince the other of your respective arguments; we've heard yours, endlessly, and FrmLE's is from his perspective and experience.
in life, whatever is, is...so whatever happened to or became of MM must be accepted, not necessarily argued, at least IMHO.
do you agree there is no irrefutable proof of what happened to her?
can you agree that almost every possible idea has been considered? maybe not formally, officially explored by authorities, but considered.
no one can fix the situation, as it has not resolved on its own in 10 years. anyone with an inclination and energy will continue to freely argue, i'm sure.
i, like another aptly named poster, would say the argument is a "pointless endeavor".
let me be clearer...hoping to eventually know what has become of MM is not a "pointless endeavor", imo, just the endless argument.
so i choose not to participate at that level; i'm always an observer of the bigger picture.
as an aside, i thank you, with sincerity, for referencing MM as "young woman" at least a few times; it is respectful and more accurate about who she was at the time of her disappearance.
i totally get the use of "girl", here and there because she was / is that, too...but not "young" girl.
so, thanks, again. just sayin.