Maura Murray

Jenkins wrote:

Hannah- I think that's a good point you made about JKM's refusal to answer questions pertaining to the night MM went missing.<<<text deleted>>>>
But why is he the only guy that refuses to answer ANY q's about that night? It sure does leave a lot to the imagination, which IMO makes him look worse than if he did answer and just had a stupid answer like 'I drove 5 minutes back the way I came from and just kept an eye out for her' which in reality is probably exactly what happened.

JKM didn't refuse to answer questions about the night MM went missing *** with the one exception *** about the time discrepancy. When he was asked if he would be willing to respond to questions, he said yes, except with regard to the time.

And he isn't the only one.....right after the disappearance, when Sharon arrived and they gathered to talk, she asked Chief Williams why were there conflicting reports about the time of accident; i.e., some said 7:00 pm.....some said 7:30. He told her he couldn't answer her question.

Williams had just told her he was open to anything she needed to ask. She was on her way to the car to get pen and paper to write down things and this is when he said "you don't need to get that. Just ask anything you need to know about." So she didn't go get it. But, he didn't like the question about the time and refused to discuss.

James Renner wrote:

My point is, if you have knowledge or sources that would make the timeline more accurate, we'd like to have it. We should be working together.

Jesus, Renner. Seriously, do you think you are the only person that knows about a timeline. There have been some fairly intelligent people on these forums since 2004. Many of them have tried to reconstruct an accurate timeline. Problem is there isn't enough accurate information to create an accurate timeline. To anyone who has actually looked at this case it should be blatantly clear.

Bill

I really don't see what the point of the analysis of whether ot not MM could've made it to where the CW said she did was. Obviously she COULD have ran that far in that amount of time, I don't think anyone ever even questioned that anyways.

I don't see what the point of a whole analysis of the feasibility was, clearly it's feasible for her to have made it there, the real question is whether or not the CW made up the whole story or not, and if he did make it up the why?

Who ever questioned whether it was possible anyways? that was never an issue. The question always was whether he made up the story or not.

Personally I think that the whole sighting is made up for 2 main reasons. First of all he didn't tell LE, he was overheard telling the story to people around town, who brought it to PI's who then brought it to LE who questioned him about it. I don't think that sighting was ever meant to be told to LE, if it was then why didn't he bring it to LE first? Any normal, decent person would obviously tell LE before people at the bar if they had good info pertaining to a missing persons case, but he did not do that. I think that when LE came to him he couldn't back away from the story because then he would be a guy that goes around town making up stories about a girl missing from his front yard, he'd look like a serious scumbag if he did that. If the whole story was true then I would think that he would've told LE first thing as soon as he realized he had the dates wrong, which never made much sense anyways.
The other main reason I think he made it up is that part of the story he claims that he didn't notice all the activity around the Saturn when he got home that night, which makes NO sense at all. The saturn was towed away at 8:49, that means that if his story about seeing her when he did was true that he would've gotten home right about when it was the peak of activity on the scene. There would've been the cops, the saturn and the tow truck AT LEAST, but probably the FD and EMS too, there's just NO WAY he wouldn't have noticed all of that going on right in front of his house!!

THis guy's story is basically that he saw a young person wearin a dark hoodie ducking down a dirt road when he was driving 40-50 MPH down 112 but he didn't notice the accident scene right in front of his house that had emergency vehicles with flashing lights?!?! Really????? How does that make ANY sense at all???? It doesn't. He notices some person wearing black in the dark while driving 50 but doesn't notice a whole accident scene right in front of his house while he's driving 5MPH to turn onto BHR???? Yea OK dude.

John Green "The earliest Maura could have departed the scene was about 8:34 pm. This was five minutes after Faith Westman's call, thus giving her enough time to have talked with Bruce Atwood (which could have occurred as early as 7:25 pm), get out of the car, gather her thoughts and self, walk a short distance, then begin running. See the timeline posted to Renner's blog on Saturday the 11th.
The latest Maura could have departed the scene was 8:46 pm, or seconds before Officer Smith arrived. See the timeline posted to Renner's blog on Saturday the 11th." Westamans called 911 at 7:27pm. So noway SBD could have talked to her before that. According to this timeline Maura still would have been at the scene when LE,fire,and EMTS arrived. I wonder who Bruce Atwood is. This is a new name to me.

WTH-the-original wrote:

<quoted text>
Jesus, Renner. Seriously, do you think you are the only person that knows about a timeline. There have been some fairly intelligent people on these forums since 2004. Many of them have tried to reconstruct an accurate timeline. Problem is there isn't enough accurate information to create an accurate timeline. To anyone who has actually looked at this case it should be blatantly clear.
Bill

I definitely agree there is not enough accurate information to create an accurate timeline.

John Green wrote:

Hello everyone.
If you might be interested in an analysis of whether Maura - in terms of time frames - could have been the person seen by Rick F., running 4-5 miles east of the accident scene (as he later reported), check out Renner's blog.
Would be interested in any thoughts, contrary reasoning or additional facts.
http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/2013/05/did-m...
John Green

Fact is it was not he who reported this. It was actually someone else he had told. He has given 2 different versions as to where he was concerning this night.Iam not saying he is guilty of anything.

Hmm,this Bruce Atwood must be a mystery man.

citigirl wrote:

John Green "The earliest Maura could have departed the scene was about 8:34 pm. This was five minutes after Faith Westman's call, thus giving her enough time to have talked with Bruce Atwood (which could have occurred as early as 7:25 pm), get out of the car, gather her thoughts and self, walk a short distance, then begin running. See the timeline posted to Renner's blog on Saturday the 11th.
The latest Maura could have departed the scene was 8:46 pm, or seconds before Officer Smith arrived. See the timeline posted to Renner's blog on Saturday the 11th." Westamans called 911 at 7:27pm. So noway SBD could have talked to her before that. According to this timeline Maura still would have been at the scene when LE,fire,and EMTS arrived. I wonder who Bruce Atwood is. This is a new name to me.

While in Haverhill with Maribeth, someone else called Atwood Bruce. Interesting.

That just seems like backwards logic- LE searched the CW's trailer after he sold it an nothing came of it so that means he isn't a suspect??

How does that make ANY sense?? Obvously he IS a suspect otherwise they never would've searched his trailer, LE doesn't do forensic searches on people's property unless they consider them a suspect or at least believe there is a possibility they're going to find info pertaining to the case,, not happenng. THey don't do forensic searches for fun. Unless they had a reasonable suspicion that they might find something they wouldn't bother to waste their time, they have a lot of other things to do then search places where they don't think they're going to find anything.

John Green said that they searched his trailer and nothing came of it, well this is wrong. Actually something DID come of it, MORE SEARCHES. According to the people who currenty own his propery LE has searched the property at least twice in the last couple years, one time even bringing in some sort of special equipment to help them, probably ground penetrating radar but that's just a guess.

All i'm saying is that the logic stating that CW is not a suspect bc the search of his trailer turned up nothing is clearly wong. The fact that they searched his trailer at all shows that he is/was a suspect, the fact they didn't find anything means nothing except they didn't find anything. When you consider the fact that in the past couple years they've searched his old property twice that proves that the NHSP does not subscribe to the same logic that JG proposes in his post. They didn't decide that he's not a suspect bc they didn't find anything in his trailer, instead they decided to do MORE searches of his old property.
Either way, it's pretty clear that the CW is a suspect, the don't search someone's property even ONCE if they're not a suspect, let alone 3 times. THe fact they've searched his propery 3 times shows that he clearly is a suspect in her dissapearance, or at least was. Maybe he's not now but I find it hard to believe they found anything in the last year that eliminated him that they hadn't found in the 7-8 yrs before they started searching his old property.

Is that not backwards logic? I just find it funny that over on Renner's blog they write off someone who is clearly a suspect so quickly, while clinging to this theory that her family knows where she is so tightly. The theory that her family is hiding her is just plain silly, theres no way anyone would ever do what her family has done if they're hiding her, that makes NO sense at all whatsoever, NONE.
And honestly, out of all the 'conspiracy theories' about this case that seems like the most ridiculous one of all. That her family knows where she is but put on this huge act, going on TV and giving newspapers interviews, hiring PI's and even starting websites and forums dedicated to finding more info about what happened to her all the while knowing where she is???! Now THAT is a crazy conspiracy theory if I've ever heard one!! lol, come on

citigirl wrote:

<quoted text>I definitely agree there is not enough accurate information to create an accurate timeline.

Not only is there not enough info, and even less verifiable info, but existing info is at times contradictory. Wonder if the never realeased Hanover log would clear some of it up?

I also reacted to SBD being called Bruce. He goes under this name in media as early as Feb ´04 (Globe article). There is a Bruce A currently living in Salem, NH. No idea why someone named Arthur would be called Bruce.

WTH-the-original wrote:

<quoted text>
Yep, and if pigs could fly you would have to hunt them like they were pheasants.
West point has had over two centuries to figure out how to get rid of people not deserving of being army officers. Their system isn't perfect, but it works exceptionally well.
Bill

This sounds like a motive!

LG I remember Sharon telling of the "briefing" and not being able to get much info from HPD.

I also remember well, that CW trailer/mobile home being surrounded by yellow tape and the forensic vehicle in the town south of Haverhill. Thw trailer interior was newly painted before sale. AND, the new owner was growing weary of the attention.

I know nothing about CW's house being searched, other than was written here by BillH.

ps I have never understood why all the flashing lights from PD, FD...emergency couldn't be noticed by CW in his
residences...but, PI's did state that all windows were covered.

Grafton County Sheriff's Log is seemingly the only "time line" we the public have. Nothing from Hanover Dispatch, to my knowledge.

IMO...a time line, of any sorts, prior to night fall,
2/9/2004 is soap opera ...yellow journalism.
Blame the victm and/or family.

Jenkins..just reread your last paragraph...agree..of course her family doesn't know where she is...geez...unless there is some strange Uncle out in Ohio.....shiver...shudder....

Lighthouse 101 wrote:

<quoted text>
At this point I'm wondering about you, and you "mutualism relationship" with Alden....but at this point eyebrows should be raised with the game your playing with him.

Oh?

John Green has offered up some entertainment at least. Ran right to his blog and posted a correction about BHR elevation but couldn't even manage to credit the correct poster. If he had a chance at being credible, it's gone already.

John Green wrote:

<quoted text>
Citigirl,
Still, a good point. I appreciate your insight. It would be better if you offered it on Renner's forum, but I don't mind wading though the 90% of non-substantive comments and needless vitriol on this site to profit from your insight. You CLEARLY have a dynamic understanding of the case and I wish there was more chance to benefit from it in a place where the conversation is focused on the case, not who knows more and why everyone sucks.
As for the time line, others also pointed out my typo about New City vs. NYC, but thank you. I will correct it when I post the next version.

it is interesting to observe that Green posts here, where comments are not moderated, accepts corrections to his timeline, and then backhands citi (it's a small "c", Green) for his preference that she would post at his blog site, not to Topix. he still tries to attract flies with vinegar, not honey.

everyone knows it was New City, not NYC. attention to details is so important in any endeavor.

IIRC, there was some conversation that the blue panel van owned by RF as being seen in his driveway by BA at the time BA was parking the school bus.

I'm only posting this as speculation and not as fact. But lends some value to the fact that the 7 -7:30 timeline taboo to JKM.

RF said he was asleep on the couch at that time of the WB incident.

mcsmom wrote:

IIRC, there was some conversation that the blue panel van owned by RF as being seen in his driveway by BA at the time BA was parking the school bus.
I'm only posting this as speculation and not as fact. But lends some value to the fact that the 7 -7:30 timeline taboo to JKM.
RF said he was asleep on the couch at that time of the WB incident.

CORRECT......Rick gave 2 different stories.

LE knows about a piece of property that Forcier owned in PA during the time that MM went missing and that was sold about 2008.

Forcier used this as a hunting property and went there every fall. He went there in Oct. of 04.

Wondering if this piece of property has been looked at.

He is an avid hunter, tracker and also a taxidermist.

For the record Jenkins, I do not believe her family is hiding her. I do believe Fred knows more about why she was leaving UMass, though. And probability still strongly suggests she was travelling in tandem with someone or met with someone she knew up there. However, I am keeping my mind open to other possibilities.