Maura Murray

WTH-the-original wrote:

<quoted text>Hi Amy,

Didn't I remember FrmLE state that NH also has "investigative" grand juries whose purpose was investigation, not indictments? Or did I misunderstand?

I am not saying there was any kind of grand jury convened, just checking if you remember him saying that.

Bill

I'd forgotten about that. It was a while ago. I just went back and found a couple of his posts on the subject:

FrmLE | Feb 7, 2012

"There has not been an indictment sought in this case that I am aware of. Therefore any GJ inquiries would be Investigative in nature."

"Agreed, the system is not terribly easy to understand. I spent 20 plus years doing it and still was learning tricks and tips right til when I left. I received lots of training, years of training really, and 22 years of on the job training, learning every day something new.

So to try to understand the criminal justice system and investigative process by reading info on a forum or from google is really impossible.

My take is this. I believe there are people who Investigators wanted to question and for one reason or another they felt that a GJ was the best avenue to discover that information.

There are a hundred reasons why they felt that way, so to speculate without knowing the details is like throwing darts in the dark.

I do not believe that they have a suspect or even POI at this point, I don't think there is an Indictment pending and I don't think that any of the GJ information means much other than they are still working the case.

Don't read too much into it, it is not that significant."

amy researches wrote:

<quoted text>
I'd forgotten about that. It was a while ago. I just went back and found a couple of his posts on the subject:
FrmLE | Feb 7, 2012
"There has not been an indictment sought in this case that I am aware of. Therefore any GJ inquiries would be Investigative in nature."
"Agreed, the system is not terribly easy to understand. I spent 20 plus years doing it and still was learning tricks and tips right til when I left. I received lots of training, years of training really, and 22 years of on the job training, learning every day something new.
So to try to understand the criminal justice system and investigative process by reading info on a forum or from google is really impossible.
My take is this. I believe there are people who Investigators wanted to question and for one reason or another they felt that a GJ was the best avenue to discover that information.
There are a hundred reasons why they felt that way, so to speculate without knowing the details is like throwing darts in the dark.
I do not believe that they have a suspect or even POI at this point, I don't think there is an Indictment pending and I don't think that any of the GJ information means much other than they are still working the case.
Don't read too much into it, it is not that significant."

Thanks.

That is why I was wondering if it was worth re-hashing. It seems to show nothing, even if there was a grand jury. At least to me.

Bill

WTH-the-original wrote:

<quoted text>Thanks.

That is why I was wondering if it was worth re-hashing. It seems to show nothing, even if there was a grand jury. At least to me.

Bill

Maybe not, but it's not like there's any useful conversation going on here that we are interrupting. Since Sam is a lawyer I am interested in his take on it.

The most helpful article that I found contains the following information:

"State investigating grand juries can be divided into three categories. In some states, including Arizona, Florida, Louisiana, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, and North Carolina, grand juries are limited to investigating criminal activity that is brought to their attention by a prosecutor or by a court. Grand juries in other states, including Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, California, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Nebraska, Nevada, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Virginia and West Virginia, can investigate any activity that appears to violate the criminal law of their state as long as the activity in question occurs within their venue, which is usually the county in which the grand jury sits. The third category is composed of state grand juries that investigate certain kinds of criminal activity, which often involves drug crimes or organized crime. These grand juries, which are known as 'special grand juries,''statewide grand juries,''state grand juries' or 'multicounty grand juries,' usually sit in addition to the more conventional grand juries that are usually convened in these states." http://campus.udayton.edu/~grandjur/stategj/f... .

Although New Hampshire is not specifically mentioned in the article, New Hampshire may well grant investigative authority to grand juries.

Still, we are not talking about a case that, I would think, involves organized crime (others might disagree -- might our old friend have been on to something?).

Again, I do not practice in NH. It would be helpful to hear from a criminal lawyer in NH.

Sam Ledyard wrote:

Still, we are not talking about a case that, I would think, involves organized crime (others might disagree -- might our old friend have been on to something?).
Again, I do not practice in NH. It would be helpful to hear from a criminal lawyer in NH.

If anything the grand jury means nothing. If there was a grand jury it was probably for investigative purposes. If it was for criminal purpose than obvious there wasn't enough to convict. So it really doesn't matter it is a dead end.

Sam, Is this helpful?
http://doj.nh.gov/criminal/victim-assistance/...

I wonder if they had a suspect incarcerated in the Hillsboro County State of Corrections. If I remember correctly, They were part of the investigation.

sorry "Hillsboro County Dept of Corrections" That was also posted on JR blog.

Amy, can you happen to find it?

OK, It was Sullivan County Dept of Corrections and here is the link to Renners Blog

http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/2012/02/searc...

JWB wrote:

sorry "Hillsboro County Dept of Corrections" That was also posted on JR blog.

Amy, can you happen to find it?

I never heard about Hillsboro. Here's the list from Renner's blog:

- Haverhill PD
- New Hampshire State Police
- New Hampshire Fish & Game
- Exeter Police
- Oxford County Sheriff's Dept.
- FBI
- Grafton County Sheriff's Dept.
- Vermont State Police
- UMass PD
- Amherst PD
- Hadley PD
- Rochester PD
- Sullivan County Department of Corrections

Fun factoid

Goshen is located in Sullivan County

Y'all ever spen too much time ina tanning bed??
I really have to find a better timer!

On twitter that makes a symbol! It's all jibberish here. Y'all think we should move this whole topix thread posts over to twitter??

To wit, my ferocious sleuthing skills has led me too numerous and previously uncovered details of the case. I will sharing these findings in a future novel I'm writing. Moreover, my book will be totally based on my incoherent pseudo-intellectual saber-rattling and over analyzation of the most minuet details. The book is titled Beagle's Boom-Boom.

amy researches wrote:

<quoted text>
Maybe not, but it's not like there's any useful conversation going on here that we are interrupting. Since Sam is a lawyer I am interested in his take on it.

Hasn't been any useful conversation going on this forum for years. Just figured I'd mention it so the grand jury talk didn't head down another rabbit hole. On the subject of no one was indicted and who the suspect was etc. If FrmLE is correct, and I believe him. Then looking for an indictment or using the lack of an indictment as evidence of something seems to be a moot point. If there even was a grand jury, it might not have been chartered with the purpose of an indictment to be considered.

Just my thoughts.

Bill

WTH-the-original wrote:

<quoted text>Hasn't been any useful conversation going on this forum for years. Just figured I'd mention it so the grand jury talk didn't head down another rabbit hole. On the subject of no one was indicted and who the suspect was etc. If FrmLE is correct, and I believe him. Then looking for an indictment or using the lack of an indictment as evidence of something seems to be a moot point. If there even was a grand jury, it might not have been chartered with the purpose of an indictment to be considered.

Just my thoughts.

Bill

Nothing personal against FrmLE, but since we don't know who he is or have any verification that what he says is correct, I would still be interested in hearing from a criminal lawyer who practices in NH on how grand juries are used there. I've never heard of a grand jury being used in the way FrmLE describes, but I don't work up there. I thought Sam practiced in both Mass and NH but I was mistaken. Either way, it seems obvious to me that no indictment came out of the grand jury.

The link I posted yesterday does a good job at explaining how a NH GJ Works. I have not found anthing that suggests anything similiar to what FRMlee stated
At least as far as NH is concerned.

WTH-the-original wrote:

<quoted text>
Hasn't been any useful conversation going on this forum for years. Just figured I'd mention it so the grand jury talk didn't head down another rabbit hole. On the subject of no one was indicted and who the suspect was etc. If FrmLE is correct, and I believe him. Then looking for an indictment or using the lack of an indictment as evidence of something seems to be a moot point. If there even was a grand jury, it might not have been chartered with the purpose of an indictment to be considered.
Just my thoughts.
Bill

thank you; agree.
whatever strokes the ego or fills space remains; much gnawing on the bones, but no marrow is left.

amy researches wrote:

<quoted text>
Nothing personal against FrmLE, but since we don't know who he is or have any verification that what he says is correct, I would still be interested in hearing from a criminal lawyer who practices in NH on how grand juries are used there. I've never heard of a grand jury being used in the way FrmLE describes, but I don't work up there. I thought Sam practiced in both Mass and NH but I was mistaken. Either way, it seems obvious to me that no indictment came out of the grand jury.

Just for giggles I did a little searching and found this document.

http://doj.nh.gov/media-center/press-releases...

It makes specific reference to an "investigative grand jury" on page 6 in this pdf. Notice that the prime suspect was dead so an indictment wouldn't be possible and they seem to differentiate in the document between a investigative and regular grand jury. The last page states "Under usual circumstances, the evidence collect
ed in this case would be presented to a grand jury for indictment..." Sounds like a different "type" of grand jury from the one that was convened to investigate, to me.

Bill

"A grand jury is composed of a group of individuals whose main purpose is to determine whether to issue an indictment against an individual. This process of determining whether or not to issue an indictment is commonly known as a grand jury investigation. During a grand jury investigation, the grand jury makes no decision or conclusion as to the guilt or innocence of an individual. It only determines whether there is probable cause, or enough evidence to suggest, that an individual may have committed a crime."

All one in the same thing