Maura Murray

What does everybody make of the bank account claim? I find it hard to believe that Mr Renner could not get to the bottom of this right off the bat. Not bashing him, just surprised this was not immediately confirmed or refuted.

ref: http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/2011/09/banke...

Snowy wrote:

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it would be better not to make declarative statements without facts, and it is doubtful you can offer proof of your stated claims.

Well frankly I didn't think it necessary to state the painfully obvious and say that what I wrote is my opinion, not fact.

I clearly underestimated your intelligence.

Snowy wrote:

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i hope that for any reason you are not surprised. i am certainly not. the damning and damaging have been consistently practiced without a moment of remorse.

Can you clarify, what does this mean?

Consider how many people were searching night and day for Patric McCarthy in an area significantly smaller than the possible search area for Maura and it is not hard to come to the realization that the most likely possibility considering all available information is that she walked deep into the woods and succumbed to the elements. Either intentionally or unintentionally.

Search dogs are hit or miss at best, I have walked many a search with the best hounds NHSP has. SOmetimes they track and sometimes they don't. Cold dry weather is a bad climate to track with a dog.

That is the most likely scenario and what LE believes happened. No one knows for sure.

FrmrLE wrote:

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Well frankly I didn't think it necessary to state the painfully obvious and say that what I wrote is my opinion, not fact.
I clearly underestimated your intelligence.

I don't find it obvious at all. Everything you wrote you stated as FACT. No where did you say it was only your opinion and people reading it shouldn't have to guess. IMHO

Lindsay Ferguson's track coaches:

http://www.counsel.nysed.gov/Decisions/volume...

John Regan of Waterbury, Connecticut pleaded guilty to the charge of attempting to abduct track star Ferguson from the Saratoga Springs High School parking lot on October 31, 2005. Art Kranick happened to be at the scene of the crime during its commission and helped police apprehend Regan.

It appears that the Kranicks were strong advocates for the use of nutritional supplements by their high school athletes.

Or this 1994 New York Times article:

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/11/07/nyregion/hi...

By 2003, the use of nutritional supplements by athletes had become far more sophisticated than the vitamins supplied to runners at Saratoga Springs High School.

Maybe Renner should find out whether UMass athletes were supplied with nutritional supplements that originated at American River Nutrition in Hadley MA.

American River Nutrition has, through HQSM, a cozy and unique association with something very close to Saratoga Springs High School.

If anyone has the patience...

http://pink-sheets.blogspot.com/2005/10/hqsm-...

And...

http://www.hbsslaw.com/cases-and-investigatio...

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Or these MA Sec. of State records about the connection between American River Nutrition and Birthright of Amherst Area, Inc...

http://corp.sec.state.ma.us/corp/corpsearch/C...

http://corp.sec.state.ma.us/corp/corpsearch/C...

http://corp.sec.state.ma.us/corp/corpsearch/C...

**********

The late Dick Johnson was well regarded. But he obviously had interests in both the nutritional supplement business and in adoption/prolife advocacy. Maybe Maura did, too. Maybe it just didn't all work out in such a healthy way. Who knows?

Beagle wrote:

Maybe Renner should find out whether UMass athletes were supplied with nutritional supplements that originated at American River Nutrition in Hadley MA.
American River Nutrition has, through HQSM, a cozy and unique association with something very close to Saratoga Springs High School.

Such as Espey Mfg. and Electronics, apparently a DoD contractor with ownership that is not easy to understand or identify. Maybe Rotenberg, which audited both HQSM and Espey, can explain it.

The Espey plant is located very near Saratoga Springs High School. Even if Regan had subdued Ferguson and secured her in the back of his minivan, he could not have gone far without getting stopped by police. His only hope of evading police after a successful abduction must have relied on some kind of nearby resource or transfer. A confederate. A building. Something. But because Regan pleaded guilty, we'll never know exactly what his plans were or why he chose Ferguson.

Because the incident in the high school parking lot could have been portrayed to a jury as a mere scuffle, a misunderstanding that got out of hand, Regan had an excellent defense. After all, proving intention is not always easy.(The items in the back of his minivan were common tools of the trade, often found in the backs of hundreds of thousands of trucks and vans across the continent.) Lucky for Ferguson that her track coach, Art Kranick, was there at the same time.

There was every reason to believe that Regan could have been found not guilty. Which doesn't mean he didn't intend to kidnap Ferguson; it just means the state couldn't prove it. Regan had nothing to lose by going to trial.(Look at the woman in FL who got off.) If he was such a loner, such a conventional predator, such an evil person, why would he not at least TRY to get off? Don't bad guys want to avoid jail if they can? No plea bargain was available to him from the start. He had plenty of money to mount an excellent defense. And his attorney was E. Stewart Jones, a noted Troy trial lawyer. By pleading guilty, he effectively never had to talk about his reasons for choosing Ferguson. Even if the Waterbury CT cases are brought up, they are a joke, a fact admitted by the CT prosecutor.

IMO, Regan must have had a plan, and he must have had a reason for having chosen Ferguson. By avoiding trial, he never had to talk about any of these factors.

Not to mention a heapin' coincidence... Gold running medals from amateur distance races during the 1910s and 20s made their way from a condo building in Naples FL to Greenfield MA in the fall of 2006. The Naples condo building is where the former CEO of Espey has a winter residence.(Get it? RUNNING medals?)

The medals showed up via the same Greenfield "dealer" as the (child rapist) Ed Nicewicz phone bill. And same Greenfield dealer for the unusual Chinese dissident Wang Dan photos of young males that the FBI came to Greenfield to collect right after Nancy Hearst at the Fairbank Center for East Asian Studies was notified about the impending sale of Wang's former possessions. But nothing about questionable photos was ever mentioned. The photos were to be thrown in the dumpster, but somehow the FBI thought it prudent to come and get them, but not for prosecutorial reasons. Someone else knew about the photos.

Oh, the Nicewicz phone bill had an interesting call on it in addition to the calls to the home phone of a member of the search and rescue group looking for Molly Bish. This other call was made to a location owned by Tom Kempner's sons. Tom Kempner, former head of Loeb Partners and leading business partner of my brother's best friend, had a clear and important interest in Dove Interests, as did Loeb's sometime partner, T. Boone Pickens.

Dove Interests is/was a tiny NY State real estate company with important ties to Regan's hometown of Waterbury CT and to Regan's attorney E. Stewart Jones. Why were giants like Loeb and Pickens so interested in a miniscule real estate company in upstate NY? Albany news media picked up on part of the story but never dug deep enough.

Anyway, running medals, obviously retained or collected a few feet away from someone who ran Espey. And Wang Dan photos. And Ed Nicewicz phone calls.

WTH-the-original wrote:

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Oh come on FrmrLE. Surely a little walk in the woods and she would be found? Ask all those people that have criticized all the searches that where done and will tell you how easy such a search would be. Of course you already have one strike against you because its likely they suspect that you are lazy and likely incompetent as we know all public servants (LE) are. Nope, I think you might just have been out in the woods having a party while making believe that you were searching. I mean you do call it a search party don't you? So it must just be fun and games.
I hope you realize that this is absolutely dripping with sarcasm. I am a searcher/coordinator/trainer also who has tried to explain this to others on this forum who have never been in NH woods and have no clue how difficult it is to find something in those woods. And of course they feel that it is either laziness or incompetence that has caused her to not be found.
I doubt I know who you are but I would like to offer my appreciation for the work you did in Patric's case and Maura's if you searched for her also.
Bill

I agree with you 100% Bill. I remember the first time my sister and I went up to search for Maura in March of 04. My first thought was oh my God we are never going to find her. It is not laziness or incompetence that has not found Maura. As one poster has stated it is finding a needle in a haystack. This is so true. I have gratitude toward anyone who goes out searching for the missing and those whom have helped in our search for Maura.

Or if you had a really expensive car - say,$200,000 or more - where in the Pioneer Valley could you take it for maintenance and repair?

Here?

http://corp.sec.state.ma.us/corp/corpsearch/C...

For at least the past 20 years, they have done the repair and maintenance for the Greenfield area ambulances.

And some of the stuff I've heard this week--which I'll be covering in the next few posts--paints a different picture of the young woman that family and friends tried to paint as a saint. But that doesn't mean she was a bad person. In fact, she was strong. She was happy. She was just complicated like the rest of us.

Some of her happier times were spent with Hossein Baghdadi, the assistant coach of the track team, in 2003. At the urging of friends, they started seeing each other in the Spring of 03 and had a hot and heavy relationship that went into the summer. Sometimes they went to movies, restaurants, or went running but they kept it on the DL, because he was a coach, even though she had stopped running and participating in track by then. Alone with "Hoss," Maura referred to Billy as an "ex." With Hoss, she never mentioned her father. "I never knew her father was even alive," he says. They talked about taking a vacation to the White Mountains so she could hike and he could go fly fishing.

Maura drove to Amherst to visit Hoss that summer and stayed with him for a bit. But shortly thereafter, "She fell off the face of the earth." She stopped returning his phone calls, stopped answering his emails. When they returned to UMass in the Fall of 03, Maura explained that she'd gotten back with Billy.

"He seemed very chauvinistic," says Hoss. "He wanted her to be in certain places at certain times. He was checking up on her. I think he was demanding with her, but that's just the impression I got." He also got the impression from Maura that Billy could be physical. She felt she couldn't really get away from him.

After Maura went missing, detectives visited Hoss and he shared what he knew with them. One of the things he shared was a conversation he says he had with Maura when they were alone one day. "She talked about running away. She said,'I wish I could disappear.' When I heard she was missing, I though,'holy crap! Maybe she did it.'"

Later, he learned she'd been sleeping with other members of the track team. "She was very promiscuous, it turns out."

But that doesn't change the image he has in his mind of the bubbly girl he fell for. "She was super energetic. Always seemed happy. But she was sad, too. Underneath."

Hossein Baghdadi quoted wrote:

"She talked about running away. She said,'I wish I could disappear.' When I heard she was missing, I though,'holy crap! Maybe she did it.'"

Hmm. She talked about running away. Interesting.

Hossein Baghdadi quoted wrote:

She said,'I wish I could disappear.

I guess the key word is .... Disappear. Because that's exactly what she did .... Disappear.

FrmrLE wrote:

Search dogs are hit or miss at best, I have walked many a search with the best hounds NHSP has. SOmetimes they track and sometimes they don't. Cold dry weather is a bad climate to track with a dog.

I need to agree with this. I have been involved with both police and civilian K9's. I have seen some dogs that I don't think have a clue when they were looking for a trail and I have also seen handlers who didn't seem to have a clue when their dog actually found me and went back to the handler and the handler missed the alert and they walked right past me. I have also seen remarkably competent pairs. I have actually watched from a distance (several hundred yards) and saw the dog following my scent (this dog was on my trail for over a mile) and when directly downwind abruptly turn right in my direction following the scent directly to me. I have also been told by a trainer that many police K9's don't train real long tracks. Primarily because the dogs have to be able to do so many things, it's hard to get the dog to train on a trail that goes for miles because of time constraints. And because they don't train for that often the dog loses interest after a relatively short amount of time because its training doesn't tell the dog to expect this.

Bill

Lauren wrote:

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I guess the key word is .... Disappear. Because that's exactly what she did .... Disappear.

she most likely disappeared, at least by all appearances. so how does this explain the fabrication of so-called "facts" over many years on these forums? quite a mystery.
these folks are interconnected....they gathered in real time under the big top and collaborated with MM's so-called "family" representatives to perpetrate accusations and lies that are being uncovered.
what's going on, Lauren?

Snowy wrote:

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what's going on, Lauren?

There's a theory out there - maybe it's preposterous, maybe not. I do not know.
Here it is: We all know of Maura's deep love of NH's White Mtns. Her last few nights on the security desk she was seen reading a book on the White Mtns. Not studying a school book as one might expect a student to do.
Read Renner on the Maura Murray bank account found in a NH bank, a sightng of her with a child and the possibility of Fred's "weekends" in NH not for searching for her but to visit her.
Wouldn't it be a hoot if all this time she is living in her beloved NH White Mtns. Amongst the very people who have been so virulently accused of harming her.
I have no idea if the above is true. But it is a theory floating out there. Makes me think of her behaviour - when SBD offered to make a phone call for her she refused .... as if she already had a plan all lined up, like for instance someone waiting to pick her up.
I would like to believe this theory. It would mean she's alive and well. Do read the post on Renner's blog by the bank employee about the Maura Murray NH bank account.

P.S. This is the kind of stuff Renner is learning by digging for background in Amherst. Fred never allowed his PI's to do research, let alone dig, in Amherst, this may be one of the reasons why he didn't. And the MMM forum's beloved 'Weeper' one of Fred's PIs who called SBD a 'shitbag' and went to his Florida home? Wasn't it Weeper's job to find out this possibly important background info?
As for Baghdadi - I believe him. He has no axe to grind. He is now married and has a baby. Renner seems to be now doing that which should have been done 7 years ago but was forbidden by Fred. I have to wonder why it was forbidden.

Lauren wrote:

<quoted text>
There's a theory out there - maybe it's preposterous, maybe not. I do not know.
Here it is: We all know of Maura's deep love of NH's White Mtns. Her last few nights on the security desk she was seen reading a book on the White Mtns. Not studying a school book as one might expect a student to do.
Read Renner on the Maura Murray bank account found in a NH bank, a sightng of her with a child and the possibility of Fred's "weekends" in NH not for searching for her but to visit her.
Wouldn't it be a hoot if all this time she is living in her beloved NH White Mtns. Amongst the very people who have been so virulently accused of harming her.
I have no idea if the above is true. But it is a theory floating out there. Makes me think of her behaviour - when SBD offered to make a phone call for her she refused .... as if she already had a plan all lined up, like for instance someone waiting to pick her up.
I would like to believe this theory. It would mean she's alive and well. Do read the post on Renner's blog by the bank employee about the Maura Murray NH bank account.

good thoughts, Lauren, however, i quickly dismissed the bank teller's account on the first reading, chiefly because it seemed contrived like other anonymous and unverified statements. after all, anyone can write an email to renner and similarly set out to create a story to match and support a certain end.
an employee in the habit of violating customers' privacy doesn't make a credible reporter.
that said, her having had a plan is intuitive to me. couple that with no discovery of her....none of her, so far....and it would seem she is alive.

any scenario or proposed "facts" repeated over these years might require a closer look by renner, if he has time. all the red herrings were planted with forethought and unwinding them might touch on truths. i suspect someone knows what prompted her to run from amherst....knew where she was going....and participated in the plan.
i'll bet the ducks can unlock a few secrets.