Maura Murray

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Simply Caustic wrote:

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Bill:
I sincerely hope you are not referencing me, with your above post. I only ask this because of your posts yesterday to Beagle, regarding the one-man jury....I don't want to seem as if I am telling people things don't work certain ways.
Since you seem to value FrmLE's opinion, he concurred with the one-man jury being unheard of. I disagree with his opining that GJ's don't need a focus (POI, or a crime) because they do, by definition, but that's my opinion.
I also value FrmLE's opinion and input - but I also recognize that he is an experienced member of a branch of LE, not an attorney.
If I'm coming across bitchy or annoying in any fashion, I do apologize. Not my intent.

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Simply Caustic wrote:

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I disagree with his opining that GJ's don't need a focus (POI, or a crime) because they do, by definition, but that's my opinion.

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FrmLE wrote:

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Unfortunately, you are wrong. You can google copy/paste all you want, it doesn't make it true.
But hey, don't let being wrong stop you from posting incorrect stuff, this is Topix after all.

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Tom wrote:

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Grand Juries can be investigative, but a POI or company has to be named to point there investigation. Eventually at some point the grand jury has to give an answer about something being indictable. If it is just investigative then they're still 12-23 grand jury's acting as investigators to the Maura Murray case because there would be no POI for them to give a yes or no answer. I highly doubt that.

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Tom wrote:

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I'm copy and pasting off of the NH State Gov sites. I'm sorry that it contradicts what your saying.
Why wouldn't a Grand Jury be used for every crime. A Grand Jury if not focused on a POI would have to much power. Law Enfocement wouldn't need to go and get warrants they could just start a grand jury and use the courts subpoena power for everything. In this case the grand jury can subpoena the whole town and interview them about their where abouts of Feb 9th 2004. They can subpoena the Murrays all of Maura's friends and anyone they want if it isn't pointed at a POI.
That can't happen that didn't happen and that doesn't happen. The investigation has to be pointed to a POI.

Tom wrote:

<quoted text>That can't happen that didn't happen and that doesn't happen. The investigation has to be pointed to a POI.

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FrmLE wrote:

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You can copy/paste all you want, you however don't understand the context of what you are copy/pasting and you don't have experience to understand the process. You are wrong.
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Let me try to make this as simple and unambiguous as possible. The investigation DOES NOT need to be pointed at a suspect or POI. You are wrong, I am telling you straight out as plain as possible, I have conducted questioning at Investigative Grand Jury session where I did not have a suspect or POI.
If you don[t believe that, hey whatever. But you are wrong, just understand that.
Copy and Paste all day dude, it's not going to make you any more right.

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Tom wrote:

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Then why wouldn't LE Subpoena everyone of Maura's last known associates to the grand jury for "investigating" If they can do it without POI, then why didn't they bring eveyone in?

Tom wrote:

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Then why wouldn't LE Subpoena everyone of Maura's last known associates to the grand jury for "investigating" If they can do it without POI, then why didn't they bring eveyone in?

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FrmLE wrote:

It may be helpful to know that a Grand Jury is not called for a particular case or indictment. A GJ is called for a session, so the typical GJ may hear dozens of cases, and may return True Bill 50 times or more.
They may listen to dozens of Witnesses for various different cases in the Investigative GJ capacity.
So a GJ is not for just one case, one indictment, one witness.
I have presented to the same GJ numerous times, questioned several witnesses and sought dozens of indictments from the same GJ.
Does that help?

Tom wrote:

Here is another example of an investigative Grand Jury?
"Six months after an 11-year-old New Hampshire girl disappeared from her home during the middle of the night, no suspects have been named in her abduction or death. However, a grand jury has heard testimony from members of Celina Cass' family as the lead prosecutor claims the investigation remains active.
Cass vanished from her home on June 25, 2011 and her body was found in the Connecticut River a week later.
No arrests have been made and no persons of interest have been named in the case. But state Associate Attorney General Jane Young told reporters the investigation is "as active now as it was the day Celina disappeared."

FrmLE wrote:

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I don't have time to go into every detail about how the system works, it's so complex. However a Grand Jury can be convened for investigative purposes, even when there is no suspect and no pending indictment. It's just another way to fish for information.
http://www.wmur.com/news/30309231/detail.html
WEST STEWARTSTOWN, N.H.-- A grand jury has heard testimony related to the case of a West Stewartstown girl whose body was pulled from a river a week after she disappeared from her home over the summer.
It has been six months since 11-year-old Celina Cass disappeared from her home. No suspects have been named and no arrests made.
Grand juries are secret proceedings, described by prosecutors as tools that can be used when witnesses are uncooperative with police.
Associate Attorney General Jane Young said she could not confirm whether a grand jury met last week, but she said the investigation is as active now as it was the day Celina disappeared.
Young said police continue to investigate the case seven days a week, and she said she had spoken with investigators two or three times about the case just on Wednesday.
Former Senior Assistant Attorney General Kirsten Wilson couldn't speak to the specifics of this case, but she told News 9 how grand juries work.
"Usually, if investigators are to the point that they are putting the time, effort and expense into convening a grand jury, they've come pretty far making some determination in where they think the case is going," Wilson said.
Wilson said that in an investigative grand jury, a witness is brought in and delivers sworn testimony recorded by a stenographer.
Eunice Richards is the mother of Wendell Noyes, Celina's stepfather. Richards confirmed that she was called to testify before an investigative grand jury in Lancaster last week. She said the focus of the questions seemed to be on Noyes.
She said Noye's half-sister was also called to testify, along with his half-brother and his half-brother's wife. Richards said they were all kept in separate rooms during the proceedings, and she was questioned for three and a half hours.

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jwb wrote:

I agree FMLE you have good info and appreciated by all. When you stick to point it is very good but when you start to belittle posters it is not very helpful.If you can treat people respectfully your voice will go further.

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FrmLE wrote:

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5 Hours ago I posted this.
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FrmLE wrote:

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Point taken. However imagine if you had to spend 3 pages of posts arguing points that you absolutely know to be true with people who have no idea what they are talking about, no background or experience other than what can be gleened from Google, yet they continue to argue inane points to a nauseating degree?
How much patience would YOU have?
As I have stated before many times, it is often best to ask questions and offer opinions on the discussion rather than argue points that you don't know to be true, simply because you think this or feel that. Especially when the person you are arguing with spent a career doing nothing but this very stuff. After 22 years, most of that as a Detective, I have some idea what I am talking about.
As I said, your point is well taken, however this forum would be much more effective/enjoyable if there were a moderator or if people would limit comments to those areas they have experience in and otherwise post opinions and ask questions.
Thats my take.

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Tom wrote:

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Yes it does, and I thank you for your patience with helping me resolve this matter. I found this in the University of New Hampshire encyclopedia of justice terms:
"Although uncommon in New Hampshire, grand juries may also be used to investigate criminal activity generally." I'm taking their generally as in no POI needed. I apologize for arguing with you. Please be rest assured that you have proven your knowledge to me and won't be quick to ever question it again. I'm sorry if I came off rude. Again thank you for your patience.