Maura Murray

FrmLE wrote:

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You will find that lots of the info coming out now is not really new news, I think it's just new to this forum.
Also consider that the Grand Jury members in Grafton County for example really couldn't give 2 shits about this case. Nothing personal but this matters to Mauras family and friends, and the cops working the case, but to the average Grafton County citizen who works 2 jobs to support their family, put food on the table and keep oil in the furnace, this isn't that much of a deal to them.
You overestimate the significance of this case to most people outside the world of Maura Murray.
I know that comes across as mean, it is however the truth.

again, the effort to suppress most information to the public about MM's life prior to her disappearance is not accidental; it was and is intended to prevent any deviance from the public image created by family and their representatives as "The All American Girl".

at the same time, they have shouted out pleas to "find Maura Murray" all over forums for 8 years. even as the case grew cold, they circumvented critical talking points by excusing MM's apparent choices, and they actively failed to enrich the knowledge base by refusing to admit to her "flaws".

the other reality, as you mention, is the fact that the obsessive chatter about this cold case is limited to a small audience.

if only her family and their representatives had been honest about what little was known then, and is coming out now by the efforts of JRenner. they have tested the limits of the public's patience and have used up the caring and compassion that was once so graciously offered.

Simply Caustic wrote:

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I should have specified: I meant witnesses at the GJ. I'm shocked that none of the friends/acquaintances/family members leaked out information they overheard, or told a friend who told a friend, etc.
I don't doubt that the information about the credit card fraud was known to some, but I'm surprised it didn't come out earlier in a fashion similar to Renner's (a blog, or on a forum, etc.) Eight years seems quite a while to keep a lid on it.

Mauragate.

mcsmom wrote:

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Mauragate.

There was plenty of talk about it being a possibility at West Point and why she might have been asked to leave. It was rapidly squashed and there was no real evidence so there was nothing to pursue online. This second charge at Amherst lends more credence but doesn't prove it happened. It looks very likely though.

Bill

New post from Mr Renner: http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/2012/02/bizar...

Mentions a Kate Dwyer, who is one of the people most active on the Facebook group.

But the really interesting thing is what happened to James when he called the Curves in Toronto asking for Maura...

Kitten wrote:

New post from Mr Renner: http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/2012/02/bizar...
Mentions a Kate Dwyer, who is one of the people most active on the Facebook group.
But the really interesting thing is what happened to James when he called the Curves in Toronto asking for Maura...

I have a tough time believing that after spending an immense effort to runaway she would keep her name.

Tom wrote:

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I have a tough time believing that after spending an immense effort to runaway she would keep her name.

Well, JR did call it the "bizarre theory of the day." No one seems to give it much credence, I just thought the connection with Helena, Kate and Toronto was interesting.

Plus, isn't Shack in Canada?

Tom wrote:

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I have a tough time believing that after spending an immense effort to runaway she would keep her name.

1) again....WHY was she running? who or what was she running from? and was there a plan to harbor / shelter her from some, as yet, unknown activities or choices that made her vulnerable to consequences for those actions?

2) or, was her otherwise "normal" existence as an "All American Girl" interrupted by some unfortunate encounter with a bad guy.

given the complexity of issues, i'd vote for #1.

Kitten wrote:

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Well, JR did call it the "bizarre theory of the day." No one seems to give it much credence, I just thought the connection with Helena, Kate and Toronto was interesting.
Plus, isn't Shack in Canada?

no, Shack is not in Canada.
and it is interesting...the connection between Helena, Kate and Maura.

Renner's recent post about a Maura Murray in Toronto is fairly absurd in my opinion. In my eyes it makes him lose whatever credibility he may have.

Thats just my opinion.

FrmLE wrote:

Renner's recent post about a Maura Murray in Toronto is fairly absurd in my opinion. In my eyes it makes him lose whatever credibility he may have.
Thats just my opinion.

I think he has to be all over the map because he's writing a book and he doesn't want to give away his main theory or else people wouldn't buy the book. But he does say some very absurd theories.

FrmLE wrote:

Renner's recent post about a Maura Murray in Toronto is fairly absurd in my opinion. In my eyes it makes him lose whatever credibility he may have.
Thats just my opinion.

Also keep in mind that if Maura was alive she could easily reach out to Renner and tell him that she's alive and to cancel his website. If she was alive I think she would want all the negative press about her to stop coming out so she would have reached out to him by now

Tom wrote:

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Also keep in mind that if Maura was alive she could easily reach out to Renner and tell him that she's alive and to cancel his website. If she was alive I think she would want all the negative press about her to stop coming out so she would have reached out to him by now

If she were in fact alive, I think this renner guy is the absolute last thing she is concerned with.

I wish I could relay to you the absolute fanatical behavior that her father has exhibited for the last 8 years. I don't condone his decisions and course of action during this, however as a Father myself I certainly understand the absolute panic that must have occupied his being since Maura went missing.

This is one reason why I seriously doubt the 'Maura is alive and living in Canada with secret lover" theory. Of all possible theories, I think the one that she is alive and hiding is the least likely.

And that she would be living less than 10 hours away? In Toronto? Under her real name? At a curves?

Don't think so.

FrmLE wrote:

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If she were in fact alive, I think this renner guy is the absolute last thing she is concerned with.
I wish I could relay to you the absolute fanatical behavior that her father has exhibited for the last 8 years. I don't condone his decisions and course of action during this, however as a Father myself I certainly understand the absolute panic that must have occupied his being since Maura went missing.
This is one reason why I seriously doubt the 'Maura is alive and living in Canada with secret lover" theory. Of all possible theories, I think the one that she is alive and hiding is the least likely.
And that she would be living less than 10 hours away? In Toronto? Under her real name? At a curves?
Don't think so.

I don't think so either. Do you think LE would tap family member's phones, or check their phone bills for random numbers to see if she did run away?

Snowy wrote:

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1) again....WHY was she running? who or what was she running from? and was there a plan to harbor / shelter her from some, as yet, unknown activities or choices that made her vulnerable to consequences for those actions?
2) or, was her otherwise "normal" existence as an "All American Girl" interrupted by some unfortunate encounter with a bad guy.
given the complexity of issues, i'd vote for #1.

I think logically you would have to assume the "all american girl" wouldn't randomly leave college for a week, and lie about a death in the family.

I'm new to this forum but have followed the case for years, and I've been following along with Renner's new blog.

Some things that have bothered me about this case:

If she refused the bus driver’s help and planned to flee the scene on foot simply to avoid a DUI, and she ran... Where was she planning to run to? If she was seeking non-police help – for example, to call AAA or a friend to pick her up – there were many houses nearby to ask for a phone. It seems she could have run back in the direction she came from to find a store, if she were afraid to knock on a stranger’s door. But she went the other way, into the unknown, correct? If she were hoping to run far enough to get a cell phone signal to call AAA, why was the AAA card reportedly found in her car? Anyone know how far she would have had to run to get a cell phone signal? Did she think there was a motel or other public lodging to the east? A bus station? If she was indeed spotted 4-5 miles east by the construction worker, could she have been on her way to somewhere specific? I have no idea what is out that way, as I’m not familiar with the area. But something about aimlessly running into the unknown for miles in the cold, even if from a DUI, doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. If you’re suicidal, you kill yourself. You don’t go for a five-mile run first. Aside from some kind of psychological/mental break, this aimlessly running for miles thing doesn’t gel with me.

I’ve seen theories that her father killed her. I don’t know her father or what he might be capable of, but what’s always bothered me about this scenario is why would the father continue to look for her for years? Why would he be so adamant that the police aren’t doing their job, and plead for FBI involvement on so many occasions? Other than perhaps a subconscious desire to get caught for what he’d done, this doesn’t make sense to me either.

So, now we have the “she ran away and is still alive somewhere” theory. I’d always considered this improbable, considering how little money she had and how little time she had to get away from the accident scene. Couple that with the fact that she does not seem to be a crafty criminal. Anyone who gets caught using someone else’s credit card to buy pizza does not seem like the type who could pull off a disappearance act on her own. Again, back to the father… If he’d helped her, why would he still be searching? Who else would help her, and not tell the father and other family members? And under what circumstances?

I’ve considered that maybe she was running from an abuser. Father or a boyfriend, maybe? In this scenario, she would already have been on the run when she had the accident. At that point, she could have accepted a ride from the next passing vehicle after the bus driver left saying he was going to call police. Perhaps they gave her a ride to a bus station. Most folks who could’ve given her rides aren’t very sympathetic if you tell them you’re running from the law. But they could be more sympathetic if you tell them you’re running from an abuser. Surely she had a friend or family member somewhere who would have been willing to give her, at least, temporary shelter under these circumstances. It would explain why no one has come forward to say they gave her a ride.

I theorize that she planned to leave school and run away, whether from the law or an abuser or both, and that she planned to stop in Bartlett (or one of the many nearby areas she had searched online) before making off to another destination. It’s curious that, according to the ID program, she began frantically doing those searches after a phone call with her father. I’d first thought perhaps she was planning to meet him there, but I’d think they would just make a concrete plan and meet – not requiring her to do hours of searching online. What if that phone call with her dad was just the breaking point that brought her to decide to run away then and there?

A few reasons I suspect abuse in this case:

I’ll preface this by saying that I was sexually abused by my own father and was bulimic and drank and stole and eventually had a breakdown not unlike Maura’s and ran away. My father frantically looked for me until the day he died, and to this day there is no doubt in my own mind that he would have killed me had he found me. It’s a gut feeling, but there are too many similarities for me to overlook that this could have been the case for Maura also. I also mention this so you all are aware that my personal experience could be making me jaded; it’s just my opinion, which could be completely wrong, so take it with a grain of salt.

If she did steal a credit card and only used it to order food, she could have been bulimic. This isn’t the first time I’ve heard the rumor that she might have been bulimic. Bulimia is common for young women who have been sexually abused.

She is reported to drink excessively. Perhaps unrelated, but a lot of people do drink to suppress stuff like this.

Her father’s obsession to find her, coupled with his secrecy. I can understand a father wanting to find his child, even to the point of obsession, but this type of person would also seemingly be very open about telling investigators all he knows if it would help find his child. It is natural to want to protect a child from trouble with the law, so I can understand why he didn’t bring her theft up to the media. But he seemed so eager to dismiss EVERYTHING that might have led her to NH in the first place.
The fact that the ex-lover Renner interviewed stated that she’d never mentioned her father -- that he didn’t even know her father was alive -- even though they talked about going to some of those same trails/mountains where she frequently went with her father. Then she also mentioned wishing she could disappear.

The fact that Billy was supposedly rough or controlling or abusive with her, as described by the ex-lover and an aunt (I believe?) on Renner’s blog. It’s not unusual to be attracted to an abusive boyfriend if you’ve been abused as a child. Or maybe it’s coincidence, or untrue.

The sister’s secrecy over the phone call allegedly tied to Maura’s getting so upset on the job that her supervisor had to escort her back to her room. If Maura stated “my sister” when asked why she was so upset, as reported by Renner, that leads to a few questions: Did Maura find out that her boyfriend had also cheated with her sister? Did she find out her father had also molested her sister? Maybe not, but it seems there is certainly more to the story than what the sister was willing to share.

The family’s secrecy in general seems suspicious to me. Whether or not this has to do with abuse, in their case, I have no idea. Again, just a gut feeling. I'd be happy to be wrong.

I don't know the family or have any special knowledge about the case, and I mean no personal offense to the family with these speculations. I guess I'm mostly just curious what others here think might have happened to her, since there seem to be some folks on this board who are more informed than I am.

Sorry for the double post.

FrmLE wrote:

Renner's recent post about a Maura Murray in Toronto is fairly absurd in my opinion. In my eyes it makes him lose whatever credibility he may have.
Thats just my opinion.

in fact, JRenner labeled this idea as a "bizarre theory of the day" which was suggested to him by a poster. in addition, he indicated cold cases often inspire speculative theories, of which there have been no shortage.

none of us attach our own REAL names to our posts as he does; i give him both credit and credibility.

VOR wrote:

Sorry for the double post.

What's YOUR theory exactly? I read your posts twice, and still can't figure out where you think she is or what happened to her.

I get the 'abuser' part, I don't dismiss the idea, but I can tell from your post that you tend to view all things through the eyes of your experience. Which is not a bad thing, it just makes you biased toward your viewpoint, don't you think?

I definitely agree that she was running from something in her life. It may have been not just one thing but a combination of numerous things, all of which added up to overwhelm her.

I agree that with her means, resources and lack of any savvy or cunning that the idea she is alive somewhere is so remote to be almost impossible.

I think it is possible that she was abducted from the area of the crash and killed, however there are a few facts which make it extraordinarily unlikely. The biggest reason that has been stated numerous times is the time frame which she could have been abducted, combined with the remoteness of the area and the fact that several neighbors could see the crash scene from their houses and did not report any cars stopping to interact with maura.

Soooo, based on that it leaves one possibility very likely, and 2 possibilities very unlikely, but not impossible. In my opinion.

What's your theory.

Snowy wrote:

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in fact, JRenner labeled this idea as a "bizarre theory of the day" which was suggested to him by a poster. in addition, he indicated cold cases often inspire speculative theories, of which there have been no shortage.
none of us attach our own REAL names to our posts as he does; i give him both credit and credibility.

Agreed, howevr if I proposed that Bigfoot flew an alien spaceship down and snatched maura from her Saturn, would he also post that because a poster proposed it?

Both are equally absurd in my opinion. The fact that he puts his name to it means nothing to me, I put my name to every single criminal investigation I was ever a part of, it was my job.

This is his job, he is trying to make a buck. For which I have no problem with, but his credibility is directly related to his writing, agreed? Act like a fool, and I will judge you as foolish.