Maura Murray

Snowy wrote:

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pretty enough, smart enough, athletic enough...not exceptionally so to merit any more or less attention than any other. the 10 minute pause is intriguing. the mystery around natalee holloway's disappearance, and others, was equally, if not more, compelling.
more people than i ever knew are drawn to "mysteries" 24/7....and "sleuthing". well, there are lots of playgrounds out there for this kind of activity.
whomever decided to go on the offensive, and i trust it began with the MMM forum, owns what they started.

I dont know what it is about mysteries, but I have been drawn to them my whole life that I can remember.. I honestly dont think that I am in the category of a "sleuther" (sorry I had to google that sleuthing word), I like to read, and comment on many forums, of what my theory is, if it hasnt been posted.. But I work way too much to do any investigating.. Plus, I dont think LE would listen to someone like me, even if I knew where Jimmy Hoffa was buried, Just because my mothers maiden name was Cefalu.. Just because I have some family members, that honestly, I really never talk to, I am the ONLY Sicilian in my town, & sometimes it really gets on my nerves, the way people "look at me" "judge me" & dont even give me a chance to be a friend.. I really hate it!!

I hope that Miss Murray is ok somewhere, as it seems, that even though she may have ran into a couple of problems, she had her whole life ahead of her, & being on the Deans list is a great accomplishment.. I dont condone bashing of a small town, there are other ways to try & solve a problem.. I am pretty sure that they would have been willing to put even more hours had they not been bashed publicly.. That was "dropping the ball" IMO, as they could have benefitted from the help of that community.. Especially after all these years.. Im sure not every family member felt the same way though..

Some answers need to be given to everyone involved.. So, maybe the healing process can start.. & I really really hope nothing bad happened to her by a local, cus I guess it will cause way worse bashing, & that.. I wont be around to read!!!

Emmett Dove wrote:

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Yea.. I wished they had it here! If you get pulled over they will take half or more, of your money, and sometimes, if they are in a bad mood, will hit you with their club..

Had our rental car stolen in Lima, Peru a few years back. We were eager to report it to the cops, while our friends (expats living there) pointed out that it was probably the police who stole it! TG for "extra insurance".

Emmett Dove wrote:

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wow! thanks for sharing the link FrostMan!! Interesting that right before it says the "family thinks its just a cruel hoax" they say Mr. Renner & Autorities think he may have known what happened.. Now there will be even more newbies speculating.. from the UK.

Don't worry, Emmett, no one in the UK believes the Daily Mail.

AcidHouseMartin wrote:

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Don't worry, Emmett, no one in the UK believes the Daily Mail.

I didnt mean it in a bad way, lol.. I am from Sicily but we moved cross the pond but still have many friends that went on to live in Manchester, Liverpool, etc;

Cheers mate!

AcidHouseMartin wrote:

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Don't worry, Emmett, no one in the UK believes the Daily Mail.

I write for the Guardian, but read the DM. It's trash, garbage, illiterate, tabloid but one cannot always chose one's addictions, can they?

Emmett Dove wrote:

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I dont know what it is about mysteries, but I have been drawn to them my whole life that I can remember.. I honestly dont think that I am in the category of a "sleuther" (sorry I had to google that sleuthing word), I like to read, and comment on many forums, of what my theory is, if it hasnt been posted.. But I work way too much to do any investigating.. Plus, I dont think LE would listen to someone like me, even if I knew where Jimmy Hoffa was buried, Just because my mothers maiden name was Cefalu.. Just because I have some family members, that honestly, I really never talk to, I am the ONLY Sicilian in my town, & sometimes it really gets on my nerves, the way people "look at me" "judge me" & dont even give me a chance to be a friend.. I really hate it!!
I hope that Miss Murray is ok somewhere, as it seems, that even though she may have ran into a couple of problems, she had her whole life ahead of her, & being on the Deans list is a great accomplishment.. I dont condone bashing of a small town, there are other ways to try & solve a problem.. I am pretty sure that they would have been willing to put even more hours had they not been bashed publicly.. That was "dropping the ball" IMO, as they could have benefitted from the help of that community.. Especially after all these years.. Im sure not every family member felt the same way though..
Some answers need to be given to everyone involved.. So, maybe the healing process can start.. & I really really hope nothing bad happened to her by a local, cus I guess it will cause way worse bashing, & that.. I wont be around to read!!!

"they" helped, anyway. ask Wowzer.
some walked away after being personally abused. ask whitewash.
no public apologies made; no healing commenced. hostility in the guise of "caring".
they are judges, a jury, and if the opportunity presents itself, executioners.

you'd might find comfort in Glosta; as far as i know, old world traditions live on. convenient to Boston, less congestion than the Bronx.

whitenoise wrote:

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I write for the Guardian,...

i know. figured that out some time ago.
would you wager another 2 years on this? or 20?

whitenoise wrote:

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Amongst his last words: "I wish I had never stopped to help"

With all due respect, I hardly think these were amongst his last words. They may have been amongst his last words *publicly*(to the press), but you make it sound like he said this on his deathbed and that is just extremely unlikely as well as unnecessarily incendiary.

Part of respecting anyone -- including the SBD -- is to be truthful and not blow things out of proportion.

whitenoise wrote:

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I write for the Guardian...

p.s.- git 'er done. it's been a long time.

whitenoise wrote:

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I write for the Guardian, but read the DM. It's trash, garbage, illiterate, tabloid but one cannot always chose one's addictions, can they?

I think we all read it, don't we? It's compulsively awful and the comment pages are an ongoing sanity check!

WTH-the-original wrote:

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By posturing, I guess you mean trying to keep people not involved from being accused by narrow minded people with no concept of logic or decency.
Oh well, call me posturing. Damn proud of it.
Nighty night.
Bill

I'm fairly certain I did not address my post to you. But sure, let's talk about you. Your above statements don't apply to many of your posts. You are not consistently "defender of the innocent". If you were, I seriously doubt you would get half as much flack as you do. I'll reiterate, I have absolutely no problem with you staving off accusations towards the uninvolved. I do however take issue with the fact that you regularly disparage people who disagree with your interpretation of the evidence, or lack thereof. I take issue with the way you handle some people who choose to surmise what they feel happened to Maura. I don't agree with one particular side over the other, and I agree with your position that more evidence would be beneficial while endless speculations are likely to be of little use, however, I feel your methods leave a lot to be desired.

Emmett Dove wrote:

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wow! thanks for sharing the link FrostMan!! Interesting that right before it says the "family thinks its just a cruel hoax" they say Mr. Renner & Autorities think he may have known what happened.. Now there will be even more newbies speculating.. from the UK
Now Beagle is internationally known.. The "cryptic" red "map cut-out" is a simple cut from yalls map up yonder.. Its road numbers & can be cut out simply.. I could very well be wrong, but when I done it, spent a few hours on it.. It had the same "funny zig-zag" with the same rt numbers..

A map cut-out? Are you saying this fits on a map as to what route she may have been driving? I must have missed something. What exactly did you figure out?

vanderhoven wrote:

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I'm fairly certain I did not address my post to you. But sure, let's talk about you. Your above statements don't apply to many of your posts. You are not consistently "defender of the innocent". If you were, I seriously doubt you would get half as much flack as you do. I'll reiterate, I have absolutely no problem with you staving off accusations towards the uninvolved. I do however take issue with the fact that you regularly disparage people who disagree with your interpretation of the evidence, or lack thereof. I take issue with the way you handle some people who choose to surmise what they feel happened to Maura. I don't agree with one particular side over the other, and I agree with your position that more evidence would be beneficial while endless speculations are likely to be of little use, however, I feel your methods leave a lot to be desired.

I agree with you on this. I ignore it as opposed to making it my problem. Bill tends to play board-cop (maybe it's bored cop?), but sometimes it's funny - only because I can ignore it. I wouldn't stoop, but glad you got it off your chest.

With that being said, your posts are insightful. Keep posting and don't let it get to you.

vanderhoven wrote:

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I'm fairly certain I did not address my post to you. But sure, let's talk about you. Your above statements don't apply to many of your posts. You are not consistently "defender of the innocent". If you were, I seriously doubt you would get half as much flack as you do. I'll reiterate, I have absolutely no problem with you staving off accusations towards the uninvolved. I do however take issue with the fact that you regularly disparage people who disagree with your interpretation of the evidence, or lack thereof. I take issue with the way you handle some people who choose to surmise what they feel happened to Maura. I don't agree with one particular side over the other, and I agree with your position that more evidence would be beneficial while endless speculations are likely to be of little use, however, I feel your methods leave a lot to be desired.

"staving off accusations towards the uninvolved". check.

"disparage people who disagree with your interpretation of the evidence". is there not a free-flow of opinions on many sides of the issue? which of us has been able to prevent expressions of...stupidity?

stupidity
noun
1 he cursed their stupidity: lack of intelligence, foolishness, denseness, brainlessness, ignorance, dull-wittedness, slow-wittedness, doltishness, slowness; informal thickness, dimness, dopiness.
2 the stupidity of the question: foolishness, folly, silliness, idiocy, brainlessness, senselessness, injudiciousness, ineptitude, inaneness, inanity, absurdity, ludicrousness, ridiculousness, fatuousness, madness, insanity, lunacy; informal craziness.

"take issue with the way you handle some people who choose to surmise what they feel happened to Maura." they should be coddled?

"methods"? there are other places for discussion if one requires patience with redundancy.

vanderhoven wrote:

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I'm fairly certain I did not address my post to you. But sure, let's talk about you. Your above statements don't apply to many of your posts. You are not consistently "defender of the innocent". If you were, I seriously doubt you would get half as much flack as you do. I'll reiterate, I have absolutely no problem with you staving off accusations towards the uninvolved. I do however take issue with the fact that you regularly disparage people who disagree with your interpretation of the evidence, or lack thereof. I take issue with the way you handle some people who choose to surmise what they feel happened to Maura. I don't agree with one particular side over the other, and I agree with your position that more evidence would be beneficial while endless speculations are likely to be of little use, however, I feel your methods leave a lot to be desired.

"Defender of the Innocent" is just one of the many services I provide. And I haven't noticed any flack that I have gotten. Wasn't sure who your comment was addressed to but I had some free time so I thought that I would answer. And you need to look closer. I don't have a problem with people who disagree with my interpretation of the evidence. I have trouble and call out anyone who makes up evidence to support their theory. I consider that to be considerably different. Consider me a librarian, someone who doesn't want idiots writing in the books, changing the stories to match their warped views or turning non-fiction into fiction for their amusement. And I do this, in addition to the superhero thing defending the innocent.

And after doing this for so long, I now prefer to use a large stick to the gonads and if that doesn't work then lighting them on fire afterwards is always an option. Rather than the gentle tap on the nose I used many years ago. Seeing how easily Shack ignored pleading and begging, and gentle prodding. Then escalating to trying to reason and using logic. The escalating to asking her how she thought that what she was doing would help. Then escalating to asking her "friends" to try to talk some sense into her. Finally, kicking her in the gonads and lighting her on fire kept her away. Problem was, I let the escalation take so long, that she had too much time to pollute the area completely. At this point, if anyone does know anything, no one would say a word for fear of being fodder for internet morons. Look at what she did to the SBD and all he tried to do is help. She appears once in a while. But no one has been subjected to the crap she use to ramble on about in years. I think I was at least partially responsible for her not posting. And yes, I would consider that a good thing.

I always have and still have a high tolerance for speculation, hypothesis, when labeled as such. Never had much tolerance for stupid or outright lies, and that hasn't improved with age.

Now, here is a secret I shall let you in on. The greatest thing of all is, if someone doesn't think I have anything to contribute. If they think what I write is crap. They don't have to read. Hell, I use to jump right over reams of beagles posts. Never caused me one moments loss of sleep.

Bill

Bill,

If you guys have really been doing this for 8 years, I think it's time you put in for some paid time off.

Who's in charge of Human Resources around here?

:-)

(Disclaimer: This is a joke.)

Simply Caustic wrote:

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Hmmmm. I do concur that it is deplorable, what was done to SBD. I do not, in any way, shape, or form, support the theory that anything that occured on this forum OR other forums, contributed to his death. He moved to Florida. It has (repeatedly) been stated that he did not read these forums. And while he was, in fact, contacted at least once in Florida (by a PI) I see no evidence that this contributed to his death. It's quite a stretch.
I do agree that it was likely stressful for him, and maybe that's part of why he moved. But he was not bullied to death. I don't condone the bashing that he was the subject of - but to say it killed him, only radicalizes the point you are making.(Not necessarily you Amy).

I make a point never to get on the bad side of a soon-to-be lawyer who lives near my hood.:-) Just want to point out, I did preface my statement with "If true," because I do not know. Whether or not it contributed to the man's death, I feel bad for the guy.

amy researches wrote:

Bill,
If you guys have really been doing this for 8 years, I think it's time you put in for some paid time off.
Who's in charge of Human Resources around here?
:-)
(Disclaimer: This is a joke.)

Yeah. Believe it or not I spotted the MMM forum probably a few months after her disappearance. Since it was an area I traveled through once in a while and the Whites, which I am very familiar, and there was talk about searches, crashed car, peoples behavior, etc. I started reading about it on the forum. It was clear that many people ran on their instincts and didn't pay any attention to the facts of the case. They had some very out there scenarios. Many of them also were in the camp of any law can be broken to solve this case. Go through anyone's property, harass any homeowner because the end justifies the means. The were people who "knew" it was a local and it had to be SBD because he was last to see her. Then it was CW because he claimed to be the last to see someone who might have been her. Of course you had Fred traipsing all over the area, supposedly searching on his own on private property. And his statement that a dirtbag grabbed her. Then the continual drumbeat by Shack about it was someone local, the LE was involved. She was kidnapped, murdered and it was someone local. Other knew who it was but wouldn't say. The whole area needed to be Lysoled. I have been involved in teaching searching both theory and application as well as being a searcher for years. I also have been to many car crashes and have seen how people behave. Sober ones, and drunk ones. There were many on the old forums and later ones that clearly didn't know what they were talking about. There were also several, one in particular who was doing tremendous damage to the area and some of its residents. If there was any chance to try to get any more information out of the locals, what they were doing had to stop. Not only was it unfair, but there was no justification for what they were saying. Several of us called most of them out. With the exception of one, the request for proof was enough to spook them. They had none. Several including myself were able to relate what we had seen at car crashes and how what she did was classic and seen every day by emergency crews all over the county. So that board closed down. Many came to the other forums that have been created since. Then the topic forums. It is the same cycle over and over. Group of new people come. They dabble, come up with the same theories. Eventually realize that nothing is going to change until something new is discovered. Then they get bored and leave. Several of us have been here through those years. Several said they would never leave. Many did. We are here for Maura, but have a low tolerance for mindless, cyclic bullshit. We have seen it all before. We were here before most of these people, and we will be here when they go.

Your approach is how everyone should approach things like this. Research the facts. Ask questions. Digest them using some logic. Then form an INFORMED opinion before they start spouting off with the UFO abductions stories.

Glad you are here. Many here could learn a lot from watching your approach.

JMHO,
Bill

Brilliant Brian wrote:

<quoted text A map cut-out? Are you saying this fits on a map as to what route she may have been driving? I must have missed something. What exactly did you figure out?

FWIW, apparently it's gone around the globe after the DM article, in many different languages. Some are saying the route (map) is the Connecticut River (blood) and the numerology is related in some way to those killings.

It's probably a big stretch but that's (perhaps) why someone invented UK tabloids.

Frostman wrote:

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FWIW, apparently it's gone around the globe after the DM article, in many different languages. Some are saying the route (map) is the Connecticut River (blood) and the numerology is related in some way to those killings.
It's probably a big stretch but that's (perhaps) why someone invented UK tabloids.

"they say"
psychic babble and wooo woooo
oh, the drama