Maura Murray

FrmLE wrote:

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Ok, so here is my exact quote. Please show me where I suggest that Maura should have gone with Butch?
<quoted text>
Seems to me that I asked the hypothetical question which was,'If she were in fact run off the road by a stranger I have a hard time believing she would not have told Butch to call the police or go with him rather than stay with her disabled car'....
Is that the same thing as me simply suggesting that people should just go with strangers whenever their car breaks down?
Do you see the difference? Of course you do, you are just being stupid. It seems to work well for you though, I suggest you stay the course!
lolol

Maura was apparently not is danger as no other car was at the crash site and she apparently had been drinking right? You see it all the time so you say. They just take off from the crash scene to avoid Dui. So regardless of another car making her crash into the snowbank or she just lost control on her own, she was still in a position to avoid a Poss Dui

Frostman wrote:

<quoted text>
You're definitely not alone with your deductive reasoning. Give a man a uniform, a soapbox and people who, over time, have been cajoled into believing the droning drivel and you've got the last days of the Weimar Republic redux sans the iconic moustache.

I don't know if FRMLE is who he says he is. There is no way anyone can ever state that for a fact. The only thing one can do is read his posts and make the decision for themselves. I find his information has been useful. He has toned down his attitude quite a bit.
I find you to be a very intelligent poster. I can tell by your sarcasm and by your use of metaphor.
The reason why I think some poeple don't accept him for who he is, is because he adds simplicity, where as others want a bigger and more conspiracy in the case. That is why a lot of people accepted Det Columbo. He added more mystery to the case. FRMLE takes it away.

Lighthouse 101 wrote:

<quoted text>
I don't know if FRMLE is who he says he is. There is no way anyone can ever state that for a fact. The only thing one can do is read his posts and make the decision for themselves. I find his information has been useful. He has toned down his attitude quite a bit.
I find you to be a very intelligent poster. I can tell by your sarcasm and by your use of metaphor.
The reason why I think some poeple don't accept him for who he is, is because he adds simplicity, where as others want a bigger and more conspiracy in the case. That is why a lot of people accepted Det Columbo. He added more mystery to the case. FRMLE takes it away.

Logical thought, and the construction of grammatically correct sentences and spelling help communicate ideas to the crowd of ten, so that's in his favor.
The eyes and ears of LE are honed to the nuances of body language; their perceptions are intuitive, and their training, combined with direct experiences, are critical to making observations about human behavior, and taking action involving circumstances of physical and emotional duress.
WTH/Bill exhibits and communicates similar knowledge, which he attributes to EMT/S&R training and competencies.
It's difficult not to be condescending, sarcastic, blunt or to exhibit dark humor after demonstrating knowledge to others, and which they refuse to consider. Now it's "toned down" to be more palatable.
As FrmLE says, accepting and processing the information that is INFORMALLY provided is optional. Just take it or leave it.

Just a thought to ponder.

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/AheadoftheCu...

Back on topic. One of the things that I have considered to be most telling is Maura's behavior at the crash site when dealing with Butch. No again, not everyone behaves the same but human behavior can be an indicator as to a persons state of mind.

I find it hard to imagine that anything significantly traumatic or threatening happened to Maura prior to the car crash. If she were hit by another vehicle ( the tow hitch theory) or if she were run off the road by a truck, I don't believe her demeanor would have been the way it was with Butch.

By all accounts she was not panicked, frightened or tramuatized at the crash scene. The best way to describe her was guarded and trying to avoid contact with Police. If she had been hit or pushed off the road I don't believe she would have been avoiding the cops.

Which makes me wonder, why was she avoiding the police? Why did she lie to Butch about calling AAA? Well, I think the general theory is she had been drinking and especially considering her recent accident in Amherst, she wanted to avoind a DWI pinch. I buy that theory based on those circumstances as well as her prior behavior.

I also do not buy any of the theories about someone disabling her car at a gas station prior to the accident, simply because the 'ole rag in the tailpipe trick defies physics. The rag would not stay if the motor was running.

Soo, my opinion is that whatever happened to Maura happened entirely post accident. I believe the accident happened more or less as it appeared to the police on scene, that she lost control of her car and crashed.

I believe she was upset about getting into a other car accident, and afraid of getting arrested for DWI. That is why she lied to Butch about calling AAA and why she refused his offer of assistance.

I believe she left the scene on foot to avoid the police and that she was in a very fragile emotional state of mind due to all the factors in her life that have been well documented. I believe she took some alcohol with her and that she had been drinking prior to the accident.

It makes sense to me that while she was on foot she avoided being seen by any vehicles, which would be easy to do and also is consistant with her prior attempts to avoid the police at the crash site.

I believe that she was in great shape, an excellent runner, and had alot of adrenaline due to the crash and her emotional state. I believe in a very short period of time she covered alot of ground, maybe as much as 6 to 10 miles, and at some point she either went into the woods to rest, hide, or to disappear.

Because she had traveled so far from the crash site on foot the location that she went into the woods was much farther than had been anticipated and therefore it was well outside the area that was searched. That is one reason why her footprints were not seen.

I believe she went into the woods a good distance from the crash site and succumbed to the elements due to her exhaustion, post adrenaline crash, as well as the effect of the alcohol she had consumed.

That is my theory, becuase it makes the most sense to me based on the information available as well as my experience dealing with distressed people over a 20 plus year career.

I also do consider that she may have entered a car post accident, however for a number of reasons I consider that to be a very small likelyhood, however it is possible of course. I just don't think that happened.

FrmLE wrote:

Back on topic. One of the things that I have considered to be most telling is Maura's behavior at the crash site when dealing with Butch. No again, not everyone behaves the same but human behavior can be an indicator as to a persons state of mind.
I find it hard to imagine that anything significantly traumatic or threatening happened to Maura prior to the car crash. If she were hit by another vehicle ( the tow hitch theory) or if she were run off the road by a truck, I don't believe her demeanor would have been the way it was with Butch.
By all accounts she was not panicked, frightened or tramuatized at the crash scene. The best way to describe her was guarded and trying to avoid contact with Police. If she had been hit or pushed off the road I don't believe she would have been avoiding the cops.
Which makes me wonder, why was she avoiding the police? Why did she lie to Butch about calling AAA? Well, I think the general theory is she had been drinking and especially considering her recent accident in Amherst, she wanted to avoind a DWI pinch. I buy that theory based on those circumstances as well as her prior behavior.
I also do not buy any of the theories about someone disabling her car at a gas station prior to the accident, simply because the 'ole rag in the tailpipe trick defies physics. The rag would not stay if the motor was running.
Soo, my opinion is that whatever happened to Maura happened entirely post accident. I believe the accident happened more or less as it appeared to the police on scene, that she lost control of her car and crashed.
I believe she was upset about getting into a other car accident, and afraid of getting arrested for DWI. That is why she lied to Butch about calling AAA and why she refused his offer of assistance.
I believe she left the scene on foot to avoid the police and that she was in a very fragile emotional state of mind due to all the factors in her life that have been well documented. I believe she took some alcohol with her and that she had been drinking prior to the accident.
It makes sense to me that while she was on foot she avoided being seen by any vehicles, which would be easy to do and also is consistant with her prior attempts to avoid the police at the crash site.
I believe that she was in great shape, an excellent runner, and had alot of adrenaline due to the crash and her emotional state. I believe in a very short period of time she covered alot of ground, maybe as much as 6 to 10 miles, and at some point she either went into the woods to rest, hide, or to disappear.
Because she had traveled so far from the crash site on foot the location that she went into the woods was much farther than had been anticipated and therefore it was well outside the area that was searched. That is one reason why her footprints were not seen.
I believe she went into the woods a good distance from the crash site and succumbed to the elements due to her exhaustion, post adrenaline crash, as well as the effect of the alcohol she had consumed.
That is my theory, becuase it makes the most sense to me based on the information available as well as my experience dealing with distressed people over a 20 plus year career.
I also do consider that she may have entered a car post accident, however for a number of reasons I consider that to be a very small likelyhood, however it is possible of course. I just don't think that happened.

Can you tell us the number of reasons why you think she didn't enter a vehicle ?

Lighthouse 101 wrote:

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Can you tell us the number of reasons why you think she didn't enter a vehicle ?

In order to answer I would want to separate the 2 possibilities that could have happened to her if she did enter a vehicle. As I see it those possibilities are:

1) She entered a vehicle of a non threatening person who gave her a ride somewhere and she arrived there safely.

I don't believe this is very likely simply because, "WHERE IS SHE NOW?" If she arrived somewhere safely, and then disappeared to run away and start a new life, then she must be somewhere else correct?

The reason I don't consider this likely is because it is extremely diffucult to 'disappear' in the age we live in. Consider that she had very little life experience, no money, no resources at the time, no car, no clothes, no passport, and after 8 some years not a single sighting of her has been verified.

I have done plenty of skip tracing in my career, finding people who had means, knowledge of the system, and a significan motivation to disappear, and despite that it is still fairly easy to find people, or at least to find some evidence of their existance.

Things like social security numbers, addresses, email accounts, fingerprints, stuff like that are very very hard to erase or alter. Usually it takes ALOT of money, plus good criminal contacts to create a new identity. I spent years working Narcotics as an undercover officer, with several alternative identities, provided to me by the Federal Government, so I know what it takes to 'create a new identity.' It is not easy.

I find it impossible to believe that this young girl with no background in Law Enforcement or Government work, with no money, no support network, and no alternative identity could just disappear on her own for 8 years and not a single shred of her exists.

That is why I do not believe she entered a car that drove her somewhere else safely....

As far as the other possibility.....

2) She entered a car of a person who either abducted her and/or killed her.

So this is what most people seem to think happened to her, that she was abducted either from the crash site, or somewhere down the road, and she was kidnapped and killed.

I don't think this is impossible, because coincidences DO HAPPEN. However, there are 3 reasons why I think this is extremely unlikely, albeit not impossible.

The first reason is that I don't think Maura would have gotten into a vehicle with someone she didn't know based on how she reacted to Butch's offer of assistance at the crash site. Now I understand that her mindset may have changed once she cleared the crash location she possibly by then she could have wanted to get away. But I still don't think she would have taken a ride from someone she didn't know.

The second reason is simply the law of averages, how likely is it that of all the places in all the world, that in the minutes to an hour after Maura crashed her car that just then, a serial killer was driving by and offered her a ride. The window is so small, that area is so desolate and isolated, the cops know virtually everyone by name, and just then, right there, a serial killer shows up and picks Maura up?

Yes it is possible, but to me the coincidental nature makes it very very very unlikely. What comes to mind is that old saying about a thousand monkeys hitting on a thousand keyboards will eventually type Shakespeare..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_...

Sooo, the third reason I don't think she was abducted and killed by a random person is that it is actually very difficult to dispose of a dead body in this world. I know it is morbid and I apologize, however it's true. How many times have you read a case where a person tries to get rid of a dead body and they get caught?

Suffice to say, getting rid of a dead body is not very easy, so to assume that this random serial killer that stumbled upon Maura on that isolated road was also able to subdue her, a very healthy young woman, kill her, and then get rid of her body without any trace of her ever being found....

Well yes it is possible, but in my opinion it is very unlikely.

I would say that it is much more likely that a young woman, Type A personality, with some serious emotional and alcohol issues, who packed up her room, left school, lied to her teachers and friends, and drove hundreds of miles away to 'get away' from it all and then got into an alcohol related car crash would snap and run into the woods and either get lost or decide to give up and die.

Thats what I think. Your opinion may differ.

Post?

Agree with him or not, like him or not, how can anyone doubt this guy was a cop?

FrmLE wrote:

As far as the other possibility.....
2) She entered a car of a person who either abducted her and/or killed her.
So this is what most people seem to think happened to her, that she was abducted either from the crash site, or somewhere down the road, and she was kidnapped and killed.
I don't think this is impossible, because coincidences DO HAPPEN. However, there are 3 reasons why I think this is extremely unlikely, albeit not impossible.
The first reason is that I don't think Maura would have gotten into a vehicle with someone she didn't know based on how she reacted to Butch's offer of assistance at the crash site. Now I understand that her mindset may have changed once she cleared the crash location she possibly by then she could have wanted to get away. But I still don't think she would have taken a ride from someone she didn't know.
The second reason is simply the law of averages, how likely is it that of all the places in all the world, that in the minutes to an hour after Maura crashed her car that just then, a serial killer was driving by and offered her a ride. The window is so small, that area is so desolate and isolated, the cops know virtually everyone by name, and just then, right there, a serial killer shows up and picks Maura up?
Yes it is possible, but to me the coincidental nature makes it very very very unlikely. What comes to mind is that old saying about a thousand monkeys hitting on a thousand keyboards will eventually type Shakespeare..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_...
Sooo, the third reason I don't think she was abducted and killed by a random person is that it is actually very difficult to dispose of a dead body in this world. I know it is morbid and I apologize, however it's true. How many times have you read a case where a person tries to get rid of a dead body and they get caught?
Suffice to say, getting rid of a dead body is not very easy, so to assume that this random serial killer that stumbled upon Maura on that isolated road was also able to subdue her, a very healthy young woman, kill her, and then get rid of her body without any trace of her ever being found....
Well yes it is possible, but in my opinion it is very unlikely.
I would say that it is much more likely that a young woman, Type A personality, with some serious emotional and alcohol issues, who packed up her room, left school, lied to her teachers and friends, and drove hundreds of miles away to 'get away' from it all and then got into an alcohol related car crash would snap and run into the woods and either get lost or decide to give up and die.
Thats what I think. Your opinion may differ.

Thanks for your opinion. It was very thought out and make sense.

FrmLE wrote:

As far as the other possibility.....
2) She entered a car of a person who either abducted her and/or killed her.
So this is what most people seem to think happened to her, that she was abducted either from the crash site, or somewhere down the road, and she was kidnapped and killed.
I don't think this is impossible, because coincidences DO HAPPEN. However, there are 3 reasons why I think this is extremely unlikely, albeit not impossible.
The first reason is that I don't think Maura would have gotten into a vehicle with someone she didn't know based on how she reacted to Butch's offer of assistance at the crash site. Now I understand that her mindset may have changed once she cleared the crash location she possibly by then she could have wanted to get away. But I still don't think she would have taken a ride from someone she didn't know.
The second reason is simply the law of averages, how likely is it that of all the places in all the world, that in the minutes to an hour after Maura crashed her car that just then, a serial killer was driving by and offered her a ride. The window is so small, that area is so desolate and isolated, the cops know virtually everyone by name, and just then, right there, a serial killer shows up and picks Maura up?
Yes it is possible, but to me the coincidental nature makes it very very very unlikely. What comes to mind is that old saying about a thousand monkeys hitting on a thousand keyboards will eventually type Shakespeare..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_...
Sooo, the third reason I don't think she was abducted and killed by a random person is that it is actually very difficult to dispose of a dead body in this world. I know it is morbid and I apologize, however it's true. How many times have you read a case where a person tries to get rid of a dead body and they get caught?
Suffice to say, getting rid of a dead body is not very easy, so to assume that this random serial killer that stumbled upon Maura on that isolated road was also able to subdue her, a very healthy young woman, kill her, and then get rid of her body without any trace of her ever being found....
Well yes it is possible, but in my opinion it is very unlikely.
I would say that it is much more likely that a young woman, Type A personality, with some serious emotional and alcohol issues, who packed up her room, left school, lied to her teachers and friends, and drove hundreds of miles away to 'get away' from it all and then got into an alcohol related car crash would snap and run into the woods and either get lost or decide to give up and die.
Thats what I think. Your opinion may differ.

Thank you for posting what you think happened.

Someone yesterday posted that they believe there is a clear divide on this site of people who blame Maura and others who believe LE should have done more. I fall somewhere in the middle. I believe LE did what they routinely did that night, didn't know she would not turn up after fleeing the scene of a DUI, and that they probably regretted some of it in hindsight. I would not want to be the person to have that happen on my watch. I also believe that people are responsible for their actions, and Maura's prior to the accident seemed to be emotion-based rather than rational well-thought out behaviors.

I have felt her actions spoke toward her running from something or to someone, but that is just my opinion. I have obviously never seen the case file.

What do you feel the odds are that someone she knew was involved? Investigators were supposedly, according to Renner, very interested in a NYE party she went to in Goshen. I have wondered if it is possible that Maura knew someone in your area who she was either traveling with or meeting there, who might have picked her up and later harmed her. I realize this is a long shot and not as likely as her being in the woods, probability-wise, but it has crossed my mind. Just thought I would ask.

For the record, I don't really care about blame. I always focused on facts, circumstances and trying to find out what happened. Once that is done, then I would look at the Laws and apply the proper charge if applicable.

I do think that people should be responsible for their own actions, I am a huge believer in personal responsibility and accountability. I don't believe in a Nanny State where Government should hold our hands and protect us from ourselves and our own actions.

I will disagree with you Amy when you say, "I would not want to be the person to have that happen on my watch." To what extent are Police supposed to go to protect someone who makes silly decisions?

Especially when these things happen all the time and most of those people don't disappear. Just remember, Hindsight is 20/20. Police have policies and procedures, you follow the policy to protect yourself and your Department. The Police followed policy and did the right thing.

Personally, I would have no problem living with myself if this were my case, my watch. I can't say that about every case I ever worked, but this one? yep, sleep like a baby.

It's like the person who goes to McDonalds, buys a HOT cup of coffee, spills it on themself and wants to sue. It's stupid, don't take the bait.

FrmLE wrote:

For the record, I don't really care about blame. I always focused on facts, circumstances and trying to find out what happened. Once that is done, then I would look at the Laws and apply the proper charge if applicable.
I do think that people should be responsible for their own actions, I am a huge believer in personal responsibility and accountability. I don't believe in a Nanny State where Government should hold our hands and protect us from ourselves and our own actions.
I will disagree with you Amy when you say, "I would not want to be the person to have that happen on my watch." To what extent are Police supposed to go to protect someone who makes silly decisions?
Especially when these things happen all the time and most of those people don't disappear. Just remember, Hindsight is 20/20. Police have policies and procedures, you follow the policy to protect yourself and your Department. The Police followed policy and did the right thing.
Personally, I would have no problem living with myself if this were my case, my watch. I can't say that about every case I ever worked, but this one? yep, sleep like a baby.
It's like the person who goes to McDonalds, buys a HOT cup of coffee, spills it on themself and wants to sue. It's stupid, don't take the bait.

the political and moral view of taking personal responsibility isn't popular with everyone; it's a small segment held by the voting population.
in the case of MM, i, and at least one other, have consistently contended that being responsible and accountable to at least one other person protects one's safety. it is not blaming the victim to suggest the trail wouldn't be so cold if she shared her plan to leave UMASS with someone, anyone. the consequences for not doing so are shared all around by her family and friends.
had she been willing and/or able to remain at the scene, accept help from the SBD, or appeal to families living in nearby residences, she might be safe today. these choices and actions were within her reach.
i trust authorities acted within their scope of protocols and abilities to assess the immediate scene of the abandoned saturn, and it is only in hindsight that critics can try to blame them for her disappearance.
so much of the discussion has been blame-oriented, although the facts and the evidence are exactly what they are. a car was found after having a moderate accident, off the side of the road, abandoned by the driver (and passenger, if there was one), with evidence of alcohol and open containers inside the vehicle.
objectively speaking, i cannot blame authorities for their efforts.
i realize mine is an unpopular view, but i share it without any personal malice intended toward anyone. it is just my opinion.

FrmLE wrote:

<quoted text>
Ok, so here is my exact quote. Please show me where I suggest that Maura should have gone with Butch?
<quoted text>
Seems to me that I asked the hypothetical question which was,'If she were in fact run off the road by a stranger I have a hard time believing she would not have told Butch to call the police or go with him rather than stay with her disabled car'....
Is that the same thing as me simply suggesting that people should just go with strangers whenever their car breaks down?
Do you see the difference? Of course you do, you are just being stupid. It seems to work well for you though, I suggest you stay the course!
lolol

FrmLE, you are turning into an annoying diva on this blog

SnowyB wrote:

<quoted text>
the political and moral view of taking personal responsibility isn't popular with everyone; it's a small segment held by the voting population.
in the case of MM, i, and at least one other, have consistently contended that being responsible and accountable to at least one other person protects one's safety. it is not blaming the victim to suggest the trail wouldn't be so cold if she shared her plan to leave UMASS with someone, anyone. the consequences for not doing so are shared all around by her family and friends.
had she been willing and/or able to remain at the scene, accept help from the SBD, or appeal to families living in nearby residences, she might be safe today. these choices and actions were within her reach.
i trust authorities acted within their scope of protocols and abilities to assess the immediate scene of the abandoned saturn, and it is only in hindsight that critics can try to blame them for her disappearance.
so much of the discussion has been blame-oriented, although the facts and the evidence are exactly what they are. a car was found after having a moderate accident, off the side of the road, abandoned by the driver (and passenger, if there was one), with evidence of alcohol and open containers inside the vehicle.
objectively speaking, i cannot blame authorities for their efforts.
i realize mine is an unpopular view, but i share it without any personal malice intended toward anyone. it is just my opinion.

SnowyB, I'm pretty much on the same page with you. And I think that "blame" is the wrong idea... LE responded as they typically would with so many alcohol-related abandoned accident scenes. And Maura was human, like all of us, and she was experiencing an awful lot of stress for a young person.

Maura was running away from everyone and everything when she disappeared, and it is pretty obvious that alcohol had begun to play a major role in her life as a coping mechanism. I don't mean to sound dreary, but living here in NYC, there are LOTS of young people who are runaways, or who work in jobs getting paid "under the table," where they're completely under the radar. I have no idea what happened to Maura, but until there is a corpse or some other forensic evidence, I won't presume that it was foul play.

FrmLE wrote:

For the record, I don't really care about blame. I always focused on facts, circumstances and trying to find out what happened. Once that is done, then I would look at the Laws and apply the proper charge if applicable.
I do think that people should be responsible for their own actions, I am a huge believer in personal responsibility and accountability. I don't believe in a Nanny State where Government should hold our hands and protect us from ourselves and our own actions.
I will disagree with you Amy when you say, "I would not want to be the person to have that happen on my watch." To what extent are Police supposed to go to protect someone who makes silly decisions?
Especially when these things happen all the time and most of those people don't disappear. Just remember, Hindsight is 20/20. Police have policies and procedures, you follow the policy to protect yourself and your Department. The Police followed policy and did the right thing.
Personally, I would have no problem living with myself if this were my case, my watch. I can't say that about every case I ever worked, but this one? yep, sleep like a baby.
It's like the person who goes to McDonalds, buys a HOT cup of coffee, spills it on themself and wants to sue. It's stupid, don't take the bait.

My point was, I don't think it's a clear cut case of "blame the victim vs blame LE." I believe LE did their jobs. And I don't know what happened to Maura, so I can't without a doubt say that her actions caused the consequence. Her actions still put her in that position. But if someone did happen to kill her, then I don't think she deserves it.

My political views lean toward libertarian, so I don't think we are in complete disagreement at all.

Hindsight is 20/20, and I'm guessing that LE did everything they were supposed to do that night based on the information they had. But on a human level, I would guess that a few of the people involved might wish they had known then what they learned later - that she was missing - if only because of the repercussions of some of the blamers.

The bus driver supposedly ultimately said he regretted stopping at all, and I don't blame him for feeling that way. Look at the way he was hounded, even tracked down by PIs after he moved to Florida. I can only imagine the kind of crap LE took for just doing their jobs.

To that end, I would not want this to happen on my watch.

TeeJay wrote:

<quoted text>
SnowyB, I'm pretty much on the same page with you. And I think that "blame" is the wrong idea... LE responded as they typically would with so many alcohol-related abandoned accident scenes. And Maura was human, like all of us, and she was experiencing an awful lot of stress for a young person.
Maura was running away from everyone and everything when she disappeared, and it is pretty obvious that alcohol had begun to play a major role in her life as a coping mechanism. I don't mean to sound dreary, but living here in NYC, there are LOTS of young people who are runaways, or who work in jobs getting paid "under the table," where they're completely under the radar. I have no idea what happened to Maura, but until there is a corpse or some other forensic evidence, I won't presume that it was foul play.

i honestly don't believe her stress was over the top and couldn't have been managed, given what is known to the public. she was, after all, functioning academically, and was socially engaged at UMASS. an abusive relationship, however, would change that dynamic and might not have been detected.
if some catastrophic event occurred in addition to the stressors known, it could have been a breaking point. still, with a network of family and friends, there might have been at least one person to turn to...unless depression was so bad that suicide became an option to act upon.
only family and friends would have observational evidence to know how much alcohol played as a coping mechanism in her life.
friends and family are publicly claiming no knowledge of her state of mind before her disappearance, and/or are choosing to remain silent for purposes of this and other forums, and for Renner's intended book.
i sense there was a relationship connection or aspect to her story that may have influenced her disappearance.

TeeJay wrote:

<quoted text>
FrmLE, you are turning into an annoying diva on this blog

Regardless what you may think of his opinion. He has stated a very well thought out and logical explanation of what he thinks and why.

Lighthouse 101 wrote:

<quoted text> I don't know if FRMLE is who he says he is. There is no way anyone can ever state that for a fact. The only thing one can do is read his posts and make the decision for themselves. I find his information has been useful. He has toned down his attitude quite a bit.

I absolutely agree with you 100%. You're right, you have to give credit where credit's due. And I truly have the deepest amount of admiration for any poster who can travel from the Atlantic Ocean to the Pacific in under an hour.