Maura Murray

Advocate wrote:

My personal theory of late has been that Maura did engineer her own disappearance, for the most part. Here are the reasons why I think this could have happened.
1. She had told a previous boyfriend, apparently within the last year, that she wished she could just disappear. There had to be some reason (one or more) that she said that, and the reason certainly pre-dated what we know about the last few days before she went missing. So we know that disappearing had at the least crossed her mind previously.

Advocate: I was wondering if you could please elaborate on the first point you made -- that Maura told a previous boyfriend that she wished she would just disappear. I don't disagree with anything you wrote, but I'm just wondering where you heard that. I've read an awful lot about this case and I've never come across that bit of info. Thanks...

findmaura wrote:

jenkins,I think your post presents a perfect argument as to why she most likely is not in the woods.Valid points indeed.

I agree... Also, if any of you have seen the woods all around the accident site, they are extremely dense and rather difficult to penetrate by foot. Not to mention that it was dark and the ground was covered with snow. Plus, as it has been stated earlier in this forum, ground and helicopter searches on Wednesday, February 11 found no footprints or other evidence of Maura (and there had been no fresh snowfall since Maura's disappearance).

A number of bloggers (including James Renner) have speculated that Maura was traveling in tandem with another vehicle. I'm interested in hearing more about this theory... If so, then with whom? What might have been her motive or plan?

I don't necessarily disagree with this theory, but just to play devil's advocate -- Maura was a dean's list student in a difficult program, she had two part-time jobs, she had a tight circle of friends, and she had a serious boyfriend whose family had taken her under their wing. I just don't see how she'd have much time or opportunity to form a covert relationship...

TeeJay wrote:

<quoted text>
Advocate: I was wondering if you could please elaborate on the first point you made -- that Maura told a previous boyfriend that she wished she would just disappear. I don't disagree with anything you wrote, but I'm just wondering where you heard that. I've read an awful lot about this case and I've never come across that bit of info. Thanks...

It's in Renner's blog, under "The real Maura Murray" with a date of September 9, 2011. In that post, Renner recounts Maura's 2003 romantic relationship with an assistant coach of the track team at UMass -- Maura apparently told this man at one point that she wished she could disappear.

I would add that in that same posting on Renner's blog, it becomes clear that Maura in fact had more than one relationship while at UMass. What with Billy being in the service and stationed several states away, if she was unsure how committed she wanted to be to him it doesn't seem that she would have had much difficulty finding time for another relationship.

What's funny is there is actually some pretty good circumstantial evidence that she ran away to start a new life.
She had expressed the desire to disappear to her bf at UMass(not Billy) & in fact when he first heard she was missing he thought she actually did it.
In high school she actually "dissapeared" for a day. She didnt tell any of her friends or family and she went to Boston by herself for the day. Her friends were apparently worried sick and spent the whole day looking for her, I
Don't see what they were so worried about bc it was 1 day but whatev. Maybe she just didn't feel like chilling with her friends that day, but maybe it was a dry run of sorts, it seems like her dad was a control freak and she was basically her little brothers mom while she was in high school, I could see a girl in that position feelin like she just wanted to leave it all behind..once she hit WP she didn't have to be a mom anymore but them she still had a xonrol freak dad & had a whole new list of stresses after she got kicked out of WP & found out Billy had been cheating on her.
If you don't want to be found It's actually not nearly as difficult as frmLE made it sound in that post. I agree that it is extremely difficult to actually create a new identity without the gov't helping you. You would have to have some pretty major contacts in the criminal world to make this happen and some serious money to do it too, & even still. It's not like it used to be, with computers and technology it's not like it used to be, I would say nearly impossible without gov't contacts that could give you a new name and social security #.
But you do not need a new identity to disappear. Not even close. In reality all you have to do is go all cash; no cc's,work under the table, etc. Even if she got a job on the books do you think LE can access IRS tax records? Do you think the nhsp has done this? To be honest I really don't know If they have or even can. I would think that they would be able to but would they be able to do it every year? I really don't think it's very easy to subpoena someones tax records from the IRS, but really I'm not sure about that at all. Anyone here know what that entails, how about you frmLE, you must have to search tax records at some point doing narcotics right?(honest question)
But If you work under the table, don't have a bank acct, cc, utilities or anything else in your name how could they possibly find you? Its nearly impossible unless someone recognizes you, which is extremely unlikely. She could theoretically be living within 20 miles of the accident and its unlikely anybody would recognize her. The fact of the matter is at least 90% of residents of Nh have never heard of Maura or know anybody is missing up there. Afrer living in nh for 12 years I know a lot of people in Nh, in the last 8 yrs ive asked pretty mich everyone I know about this. Not one person I've talked to ever even heard of it, not one. Not even my friend from woodsville or my friend from Warren, or any of the guys in groton either. It's crazy that people living 10 miles away never even heard of her. Now think if she's living in ny, or FL, or Cali..nobody out there could possibly recognize her.

Cont'd:
In reality it's not that difficult to disappear, all you would have to do is never use your name anywhere that might be put into a computer. The only time you might get caught is if you get pulled over by the cops, but even that could be gotten around rather easily. If you get pulled over and you don't have your license on you it's really not a big deal. Ive only been pulled over a few times in my life but it seems like every time I have been I forgot my license at home. I swear to god at least 4 out of 5 times ive been pulled I didnt have a license on me. To get around this all she would need to know is the name, d.o.b and home adress of someone who looks like her & the cop would have absolutely no idea she wasn't who she said she was. A long time ago when I was 18 I went to a concert with my friends older sister and her boyfriend. We go pulled over and her bf gave the cop his brother from michigans name because he had a warrant for a missed court date or something stupid, & the cop had no clue at all. Most cops don't get pictures of the DL in the car and if they do their
Not holding it next to your face. She could have easily used one of her sisters names. As long as she didn't have anything on her that she could get arrested for, because then they would take finger prints. So she could get pulled over, give her sisters name and dob, get a ticket and go
On her way. If she then paid the ticket on time nobody would ever have any idea it happened. I wonder If the cops, or her family, ever looked to see if any of her sisters, or friends that look similar to her, have ever gotten a traffic ticket that they didnt do? Anyone know how easy it
Is to look up your driving record? How do you look up your record to know now many tickets or points against your license you have? If she got a ticket under her sister's name her sister would
Never have any idea unless Maura didnt pay it
And she got something in the mail telling her to pay it..or if she looks up her driving record. But
Even still, looking up your record in mass won't tell you if you got a ticket in Nh(I don't think those states share info but they might, I know
Ct & Nh don't share, but Ct &ny do)

Cont'd:
So really the only thing she would've had to figure out would be to use her sister's name, which would be pretty easy to figure if she had ever been pulled over without her license on her.
Now think if she had a man to help her, forget about it. She was hot, she could find a man to take care of her in about 2 seconds if she wanted to. Ever since I learned she spent new years '09 in Goshen,NH ive wondered if maybe she met a guy at the new years party. Maybe she really fell for this guy, maybe he really fell for her & she just wanted to get away, maybe they truly fell for each other, either way there's a real lot of guys who wouldn't mind a beautiful young girl moving in their house.
Think how easy it could've been for her to dissapear if she moved in with a guy who already had everything in his name, so easy. Then what if he's one of the kind of guys that goes to work, comes home & woke on his car or watches a little tv, but never ever turns on the news or looks at newspapers. He might not even know she's missing, he just thinks he's got some cool hot chick living with him and it's awesome.
Honestly this Is what i hope happened to Maura, that would be so cool if she actually pulled it off. Im not saying this is what i think haopen but i think the chances of this are way higher than her being either suicidal or a complete idiot w:ho died trying to hide in the woods in february in nh. Who's stupid enough to hide in the woods after running 10 miles into the wilderness? She just didnt seem suicidal either.. If anything maybe she was mad at her family & her bf, her dad was a control freak, he probably was way more angry than he says when she came back to the hotel room with his car smashed, he was probably wicked mean to her, her bf cheated on her with her sisters best friend, & she received a call, that was supposedly from her sister, that brought her to tears so bad she had to be escorted back to her room. Maybe her family was being mean to her and she said f em all, I'm out. Think about it, that's just the stuff we Know about, who knows what the hell happened that we don't know about.
Bottom line, she expressed interest in dissapearing before in her life and there had already been one time in her life that all her friends were looking for her because they thought she was missing. She never expressed suicidal thoughts and she didn't seem like the worlds stupidest girl, I think it's more likely that she ran off and started a new life than she got lost in the woods.
Are we all writing this off too easily because we think it's way harder to disappear in this day and age than it really is.

TeeJay wrote:

A number of bloggers (including James Renner) have speculated that Maura was traveling in tandem with another vehicle. I'm interested in hearing more about this theory... If so, then with whom? What might have been her motive or plan?
I don't necessarily disagree with this theory, but just to play devil's advocate -- Maura was a dean's list student in a difficult program, she had two part-time jobs, she had a tight circle of friends, and she had a serious boyfriend whose family had taken her under their wing. I just don't see how she'd have much time or opportunity to form a covert relationship...

Well she definitely did. Her bf's family had taken her under their wing but she really didn't see them that much, and they clearly didnt know her as well as they thought they did. She met bily while at west point, he was from Ohio. When she got kicked out of WP they stayed together but only saw each other on holidays and other select times. They certainly didn't spend large amounts of time together. I suspect sharon thought she knew Maura way better than she truly did.

About a year before she went missing she had a bf at UMass, he was her assistant track coach, about 5 years older than her. He said she expressed a wish to just disappear and this is the guy that when he heard she was missing he thought to himself "wow, she actually did it". That's interesting in my eyes. I know and have known lots of college age girls. This is not a common Thing for college girls to say. They say they want to move away somewher sometimes, but ive never heard one express a desire to disappear.

Advocate wrote:

I would add that in that same posting on Renner's blog, it becomes clear that Maura in fact had more than one relationship while at UMass. What with Billy being in the service and stationed several states away, if she was unsure how committed she wanted to be to him it doesn't seem that she would have had much difficulty finding time for another relationship.

If you read fred's written statement to umass police he mentions her boyfriend having good luck buying a car in noho. Well he just couldn't be talking about Billy because Billy lived states away and had no need to buy a car in western mass.
This pretty much confirms that she had another bf in my eyes, I don't see what else he could
Be talking about, that is unless he was just making it up to make the car buying story sound better. It's starting to sound like the whole story about buying a car is bullshit

According to an article in the Globe (by Peter DeMarco, Globe Correspondent) dated 2-15-04, "her father ... spent yesterday checking bus stations in New Hampshire and Vermont for any signs of her".

This was Feb 14, 5 days after Maura disappeared, and obviously the family had some reason to think that Maura may have been alive and had taken off after the accident or they would not have been checking bus stations.

Even if $280 was all the money she had, Maura could have taken a bus as far as New Mexico for $200 and had money for meals as well. If she only went a couple of states away, it would have cost her even less. And she would not have had to disguise herself, because riders on her bus wouldn't be around when her father or LE came checking the bus stations, nor probably would the bus driver depending on his/her schedule. Station attendants change shifts, etc. College students riding buses are legion, it would be difficult for bus station employees to recall any specific one.

Then too, there is the poem written by her younger brother in which he asks what she was so angry about that she felt she had to leave.

So obviously the family didn't immediately think that she had been kidnapped even though she had disappeared from the crash site. The family had reason to think she intentionally took off.

I suspect that the family belief centered on abduction and possible homicide when Maura didn't turn up in a few more days, didn't respond to her father's plea on TV to come back and they'd work it out, etc. While it is understandable that the family came to believe she must have been taken by someone when she didn't turn up or respond, given the circumstances we do know, it is also a reasonable deduction that she was angry with and fed up with her family, left on purpose and may or may not ever get in touch again. Not a common occurrence, but it does happen.

Just as a further bit of information, the same Globe article cited above has this to say: "Using tracking dogs, helicopters, and trained searchers, local and state police, as well as state fish and game officials, covered nearly 20 miles along Route 112, but found no trace of Murray's footprints in the snow."

The article doesn't say whether the 20-mile search was west or east on Rt. 112 or some of both.

Jenkins wrote:

<quoted text> Lol, who travelled across the country in an hour?
Am I missing something here? Funny post though

I was referring to the consistent posting pattern of a certain contributor who, with great regularity, feels the need to create bicoastal and even European cyber alter-egos to support his proffered analysis... even though he has frequently stated that he doesn't give a toss what others think. The entire charade is amusing to say the least.

I agree Jenkins, I don't believe Maura went into the woods of her own volition. I find it difficult to fathom with favorable weather conditions in the first few days post-disappearance that the local police, NHSP, Troop F seconded Bloodhound, SAR dog(s) and immediate search teams all got it completely wrong. And, there must be a very compelling reason why Superior Court Judge, Timothy Vaughan, made the decision to deny Mr. Murray's request for police records stating that the release of the information would hurt the ongoing investigation. It's doubtful he would have come to that conclusion if law enforcement has presented a theory that Maura ran off into the woods and succumbed to the elements.

Everyone is, however, entitled to draw their own conclusions based on their perceptions, research and analysis.

a Red Bull romance novel. celebrate imagination.

Advocate wrote:

Given these particular facts, what right would LE have to do something like monitor her Social Security number to find out if it is being used? Could they even do that? If they presume she is the victim of a homicide, they wouldn’t have a reason or need to do it, and if they think she chose to disappear they would have no reason to do it. As an adult, she had a perfect right to disappear and make a new life for herself.
So how would LE know that her Social Security number is not being used by her? I’m not saying there is no way they could know, I am just wondering how they would find out.

I have wondered this too, Advocate.

As you know, I tend to disagree that it's probable she pulled this off or remained off the radar for this many years. Of course, anything is possible and I think you have raised some good points in support of your theory.

Are you able to share your source on the missing underwear? I've not heard that one before, so just curious if it was media or family or a forum post etc.

Frostman wrote:

<quoted text>
I was referring to the consistent posting pattern of a certain contributor who, with great regularity, feels the need to create bicoastal and even European cyber alter-egos to support his proffered analysis... even though he has frequently stated that he doesn't give a toss what others think. The entire charade is amusing to say the least.
I agree Jenkins, I don't believe Maura went into the woods of her own volition. I find it difficult to fathom with favorable weather conditions in the first few days post-disappearance that the local police, NHSP, Troop F seconded Bloodhound, SAR dog(s) and immediate search teams all got it completely wrong. And, there must be a very compelling reason why Superior Court Judge, Timothy Vaughan, made the decision to deny Mr. Murray's request for police records stating that the release of the information would hurt the ongoing investigation. It's doubtful he would have come to that conclusion if law enforcement has presented a theory that Maura ran off into the woods and succumbed to the elements.
Everyone is, however, entitled to draw their own conclusions based on their perceptions, research and analysis.

That's a really good point. Not only did LE feel a crime occurred, a judge agreed.
A judge got do review the entire case file and even ask questions in in-camera review.
And he came to the conclusion that a crime
Most likely occurred as evident by his agreeing with the states case.
If he looked at the case file and thought that she simply got lost in the woods and LE got it wrong, then there would be no need for the case file to remain sealed.

Very interesting that every professional who's ever reviewed the case file has come to the same conclusion, that foul play is most likely involved. How is it that someone like frmLE is so much smarter than all the pros who've reviewed the case? How is it that all of them have it wrong?
That was the whole point of the court case, that LE can't just say they think a crime was committed, they have to show a compelling reason that they think so. & they most certainly did that, shown by the judge supporting the states side

Do any of you who live locally in NH have photographs or video of what this 10 mile stretch of road from the WB, to 10 miles or so east, looks like?

I have seen a video of Maura's supposed last route, but that video ends at the crash site. I am interested in what her route might have looked like if she ran east for five or ten miles.

amy researches wrote:

<quoted text>
I have wondered this too, Advocate.
As you know, I tend to disagree that it's probable she pulled this off or remained off the radar for this many years. Of course, anything is possible and I think you have raised some good points in support of your theory.
Are you able to share your source on the missing underwear? I've not heard that one before, so just curious if it was media or family or a forum post etc.

How is it really that difficult to stay under the radar? All she would Hav to do is put nothing in her real name, try not to get pulled over and even if she did, give them someone else name, like her sisters And then pay the ticket and her sis would never know.
I remember thinking she ain't no criminal mastermind but then when I thought anoint logically it's really not that tough.
Especially considering this case was barely covered in national news and most residents of Nh have never even heard of this case

It's actually more likely that she wouldn't be found rather than she would be if you really think about it

amy researches wrote:

<quoted text>
I have wondered this too, Advocate.
As you know, I tend to disagree that it's probable she pulled this off or remained off the radar for this many years. Of course, anything is possible and I think you have raised some good points in support of your theory.
Are you able to share your source on the missing underwear? I've not heard that one before, so just curious if it was media or family or a forum post etc.

My understanding is that the info on the underpants came from the family, but it was posted on my old forum (the first one, that is still showing up online) by Lady Gray in December 2008. She thought it might have some relevance with respect to items that were left in the Saturn, and she requested and received permission to post the information.

And it's okay to disagree! Where would the human race be if the Early Ones had all agreed that fire was a bad thing and we should not make it?

Jenkins wrote:

<quoted text>
& wtf is up with this asshole beagle? It's blatantly obvious that Bart s, detective shtick and all these posts during the last 24 hrs made by beagle talking to himself.
Is this guy just insane or what? Why is je so
Obsessed with topix Franconia that he made a YouTube about everyone on here
Is it possible this guy had anything to do w maura's dissapearance? I find it unlikely
But I'm not exactly sure why it's so unlikely.
This guy is clearly unstable mentally, like seriously. He definitely has something wrong in the head, his obsession with Maura and her case is fucked up.
I find it interesting he was never on any forums until a few yrs ago, & then suddenly he's all over making crazy statements, the kind of statements that only someone who isn't all there would say.
Is it possible he actually abducted her?
He's from western Mass, same exact area Maura was living. Not entirely impossible that he had some sort of contact w maura before.
He's clearly interested in trying to torment the family, this is the kinda shit that only someone who is sick in the head would do.
Is he disappointed that he's never gotten credit for his crime? Is he possibly a serial killer? Or is he just mentally retarded and insane?
What's up with this guy?
Who's the other guy in his videos? The guy dressed as a construction worker, who's that his partner in crime? R they a kill team?
Has anybody looked into this guy for real? Anyone know if LE has? He certainly deserves a serious looking at, or at least to get the shit kicked out of him.
For the videos he's posted I've never seen anyone deserve a bigger ass-beating.
At the very least this guy is a piece of shit who likes to taunt families of missing girls, so he clearly has no conscience.
Someone like that yur not Gonna make him feel bad by anything u write so that's why I suggest multiple beatings is what he deserves. Not saying I'm gonna do that(as much as I want to), but that's clearly what he deserves. Some pain to match what he dishes out.
Anyone who comes online and talks to himself for a day, saying weird incoherent statements is just a straight weirdo.

Buddy Potter and Jamie Curd are your friends? Don't be modest now. I bet they admire you more than you'll admit. And to think everyone's so close.

Jenkins and Advocate,

Part of my reasoning has been that I assumed LE and the PIs working on this case, as well as lawyers working for the family, would be monitoring for her social security number to pop up, for new bank accounts or other accounts to be created under her name, etc. If someone can answer Advocate's question as to whether this was done, that would be helpful and might change my position slightly. I will still find it unlikely, but slightly more possible.

I have a hard time believing that someone who couldn't go from West Point to UMass without getting caught (again?) for using someone else's credit card could suddenly pull off a change of identity. If she used her own identity and no one is monitoring her whereabouts, either due to privacy laws or for other reasons, then that would be a whole other ballgame. But it doesn't change some of the other factors.

In general, I would accept the "started a new life" theory more if it were not for the circumstances surrounding her disappearance. It seems that she left UMass in a hurry, in an emotional state, spending only a day or two searching for places to go to and printing off directions, calling for condos at the last minute, and withdrawing what may have been all of her money. It seems like an emotion reaction to her previous crash. It doesn't sound like someone who had been planning this out for a while. Then, there's the car crash in NH, which I do not believe would be a planned part of this.

To accept this theory, considering she crashed and the bus driver saw her, and others reported the crash, we then have to assume either she ran somehow to public transportation and made it out of there without anyone but possibly the construction worker seeing her (how likely is this? I don't know). Or, she had to have been traveling with someone or meeting up with someone as part of a plan. I don't believe she could have done this without help, but that is only my opinion based on her supposed lack of money and the appearance that she doesn't seem very street-wise.

If she did this with the help of someone else, what are the chances that she has stayed in hiding with this person? She was young and had other boyfriends while with Billy, so I find it hard to believe she would stay with one person for 8 years. When people break up, exes talk. Gossip is also human nature, in general. So this means that anyone she has come into contact with in this secret life in the past 8 years could have turned her in - unless she created a new identity. This would be a very isolated life for even the most introverted person. Maura previously worked two jobs, went to school, had a social life with a tight-knit group of friends.

She doesn't sound like someone whose personality would adjust well to a life of complete secrecy and solitude. Her mother has passed away, and she would have matured between age 21 until now. I can't believe she wouldn't have reached out to someone by now, unless there was something really really bad that she was running from - and I see no evidence that there was anything THAT bad going on in her life. These all seem like temporary problems she was going through.

I also think that if she planned to start a new life, even if she had a second phone, that she would have slipped up somewhere. Either through email or computer searches or whatever, to indicate that she planned this. LE went through her computer and all of that, as far as I understand.

Just my opinion and reasoning on this. It is of course possible that she started a new life, but I find it to be one of the least likely possibilities. I would like to believe it's true, that she is alive and happy, but it just doesn't seem very likely to me.