Maura Murray

Jenkins, I think these are reasonable points and questions. Don't forget that the courts are trying to keep witness statements private. Maybe somebody said that they saw her walk West, Or East for that matter and get in a car that made a u turn right there only to head West again.
Remember, CS was pretty quick to go to the W-mans house once he got there. Maybe they had a visitor who saw something more and was outside when the car lost control.(huge guess) or well, who knows who saw what from one of those houses and it has to be kept confidential. That person may have been the one to say Maura seemed to be intoxicated. After going to the W-Manns, there had to be a short visit back to the Saturn and a slight wait before CS even went over to see the SBD on the bus. I don't recall what time the tow truck got there, but I do know EMS was there fairly quick and they were turned away. If CS could hear was being said to 911 as he drove, he would have heard bits and pieces from Faith and Barbara, who said that she had no idea where the girl was. Either she couldn't see that far or Sbd said it while on the porch and yelled it back in to her, truely unable to see if Maura was in her car or not, on the side of her car, or even walking to get help from him or somebody else. Could be that simple,~not sure where she is, or ~I don't know where she because she, Barbara, was not informed,~the "girl" had called AAA, despite SBD's doubt that she did.
And then there's the other view of the saturn. The ones who saw "Maura" back up paralell to the road. They said they saw someone walking AROUND the car. Maybe they saw something more. But we'll never know because if they did have private information, they'll likely never make that part known.
The main thing is, by the time CS was up with the SBD, some poeple coming home from a town meeting started stopping at the site, and some good time had passed. That's if I've got this right......
But somehow, some way, they had enough on their minds to go West.

Shack wrote:

What is disturbing to me is that some who claim that were/are or used to be with any branch of "Protect and Serve" could be so crude and cruel. Just confirms as to why the NH Cold Case roster is so very long.
The usual reason is "lack of funds". Perhaps it is because of lack of background checks and/or lack of periodic mental examinations.(obvious anger issues)

I personally think they need to raise the pay scale on LE jobs to try to get better candidates.
It's a sad fact that it's super easy to become a cop. It was only a few years ago that they even started making a college degree a requirement and many small towns don't even require that. It requires no level of intelligence at all; any idiot can become a cop if they want to. Some of the stupidest kids I know from highschool are now cops. They went to the military and now are cops.

They need to make it more competitve to become a cop. They need to raise the pay scale to attract truly intelligent candidates. These people are entrusted to serve and protect the community, shouldn;t we want our best and brightest? And most sane?

LE in this country is a sad state of affairs right now; particularly in NH. We need to get our LE into the 21st century; starting with increasing pay and making it way more difficult to become a cop. We need good candidates, not idiot who can't get any other job and asshole kids who got made fun of their whole lives. I would say about 25% at least of cops are those very kids; that have an ax to grind with the rest of the world. 10% are truly good cops who are intelligent and got into it for the right reason. Then the other 65% are people who are there because it was the only good job they could get that has job security. These guys are getting up and going to work every day and doing their job, but just going through the motions. They're not bad but they aren't particularly good either.

Most cops don't even know the laws theyve been sworn to uphold, Go ask any lawyer if they think cops know the law, you'll get an earfull i'll tell you that much.

NH particularly needs to get with the program as far as LE goes. The good 'ol boy network is still alive and going strong up here and it needs to change.

I agree with your statement Shack, maybe the cold case list wouldn't be quite as long if we had better cops working the case in the first place when they were still hot

All good points Paris.

I think there has to be another witness that we aren't being told about that told them something about her going west, whether it was on foot or in a car.

If they truly had no idea, and thought she was on foot there is absolutely no reason to only search west.

They literally would have only had to drive east about 3-4 minutes to get to a distance that it would be impossible to make it on foot.

I wonder who told them what, is it the same witness who reported the red truck to LE that night? Remembrer that there was a witness that we have no idea who it was who reported the red truck being parked on BHR with it's passenger door open.

I can't help thinking that this is tne info that told them to look west.

I also think the fact that the SBD went down to check the bobhouses on French pond is very telling. That isn't something you would do if you were looking for a young girl from out of state who you thought was on foot. That's the kind of thing you go check out if you think a local is trying to hide her, IMO.
How the hell could she possibly know about french pond, know how to get there and know that there's bobhouses there? Only a local would know something like that.

It's interesting you bring up witnesses that we don't know about.
Something that seperates this case from other missing persons cases is the complete and total vacuum of information coming from the NHSP regarding this case; this is in stark contrast to other missing persons cases.

Le will never give out critical information, and they shouldn't, but in most missing persons cases they give the public way more information than the NHSP has provided. The reason being is that those LE agencies know that they need the public's help to find a missing person. Any seasoned investigator will tell you that without the help of the public they are totally useless. LE needs information, they need tips and witnesses in addition to evidence. Often times in order to find any evidence they need tips and witnesses. This is what seperates missing person cases from murder cases. Im a murder case they already have the body and the evidence that comes along with it. In a missing persons case they don't have that, often times the only thing they have is whatever info the public can provide them.

Just watching the ID series "dissapeared" you can see the contrast between this case and others like it. Most of the other cases have so much more information that come along with them, but not this one. I wonder why that is.
Is it because they already have a suspect and pretty much know what happened but don't have her body yet? or is it strictly out of embarressment that they have nothing on it?
I tend to think they already have a pretty damn good suspect, the person they were referring to in court.
Often times cases like this take years becuase right now we are pretty much at a stalemate. They know what happened, or at least think they do, but without proper ssearch warrants they'll never find her body. Unless a witness comes forward or the guy messes up it's possible that they're will never be a resolution to the case.

I've often wondered over the years what the NHSP is so afraid of to release more information. Maybe if they got more publicity a new witness could come forward and blow this case wide open. We know there were at least several cars that drove by the scene during those critical minutes that have never come forward; likely because they have no idea she went missing in the first place.
This case needs more publicity.
Reminds me of several years ago, long time now, I sent an email to Nancy Grace. Basically I asked why they constantly will cover the same case night after night but they only covered maura's case a few times. One of the producers emailed me back stating that they would like to cover Maura's case more but NH LE won't come on the show so they really don't have enough to keep it interesting. Basically LE refused to talk about it it on their show, which is in stark contrast to many other missing persons cases where LE are chomping at the bit to get the case known nationally. That's how you truly find amissing person, is by making the case known to the whole country.

IDK what to make of it but it sure is interesting I'll tell you that much

The one thing that still doesn't make sense about the 1am phone call being from Billy is the fact that the Umass cop stated that they had traced the call to somewhere on campus but that they don't and can't know who made the call from the trace.

So what was he talking about?
Was he just completly talking out his ass?
Do you really think a cop would make something like that up?

IDk I guess we should just chalk that up as another strange aspect of the case; but hey itwouldn't be the first time that LE has been caught lying about this case.

I wonder what's so different about this case in particular that causes them to act so much different than most other missing persons cases, its just weird

I figured out who frmLE really is!

He was the security guard at the steeplegate mall from 1987-2009. you know the guy that drives around the little golf cart?

Since then he's retired to florida where he's is a self:appointed neighborhood watch captain in the neighborhood next door to George Zimmerman

Can anybody else not see this guy appoint himself neighborhood watch captain?

If anything he's a local cop or local someone who wants to not have people talk about this, really really bad.

He must be afraid of someone real... somebody good like the FBI or even just a real private eye or maybe even a lawyer/ taking a good hard look at the inner workings of Haverhill and how the criminal justice system works up in those parts.

They are afraid of somebody taking a real good look at the Haverhill area and the local political/law enforcement. Who knows what these people are trying to hide but it sure looks they are trying to hide something..."nothing to see here, move along" they keep shouting while standing in front of a burning building.
They want everyone looking under the lamppost, as bill put it,looking where it is easy; in the woods. It's easy because you don't have to admit there is a murderer walking among you. Shopping in your stores, working on your jobsite. That's scary and not a very nice thing to think about tranquil little Nh. No, look under the lamp post. Organize grids, think of new spots to look on the woods; all the while ignoring the 500lb gorilla in the room that's staring you in the face; that she was likely abducted & she was likely abducted by a local so therefore there is a murderer free and walking the streets.

Not a very nice thing to think about your back yard is it snowy??

I don't think frmLE is worried that we going to solve the case & he's the perp & that's what he's afraid of; nobody thinks anyone on an online forum is personally solving this case & I doubt he is the perp or anything like that.
I think what he & his little group of 3 people are afraid of is all of this information being out to the public and somebody real, who can actually do something about it might see and actually do something about it.

Somebody who can really look at this from all angles, go back to the start and find out what's really happening in Haverhill. Not just what happened to Maura but also why there is such a strong resistance to helping finding her. Why people are so against people looking and talking about anything MM. Is there something being covered up up there or is this just a really strange occurrence, that nobody really knows how to act In a situation like this & it's just making people act weird & defensive? It could be a totally innocent explanation like that but these people seem really scared of anyone really looking for the answer.
I think what they are truly afraid of is someone for real taking a close look at this area.
There has to be something these people are trying to hide. Maybe not all of them but this is far past some weird people that find a forum about a missing and murdered college student "entertaining" & people enjoying attempting to humiliate people, way past that.
I can't see any way they truly find this entertaining at let alone entertaining enough to stay 8 years!!
and I really can't see them truly thinking they're humiliating people...there's just no way they really think that, no one is that stupid.
So what are they doing here? They certainly are trying to stop any and all talk about MM. but why would they do such a thing?
What are they trying to cover up?
Who are they trying to cover for?
It's getting completely obvious now...they are laying it on a little thick ...

Why would they possibly care so much unless they have something to hide?
Or maybe their just super super super weirdos?

Whole thing is just fkn weird!

WEIRD!!!!!!!!!! SOOOOOOO WEIRD!!!!!!!!!!

BobJenkins-OG wrote:

the last place they
Should be looking is on French pond. That's exactly the type of place the would be looking If they thought some local dirtbag took her.

Jesus bobby. I can't read through all the crap you write but this just happened to catch my eye. You are so clueless and yet unfortunately you have the time to blather on and on and on about things you know nothing about. In any search, one of the first places you search are "areas of attraction", like ponds, overlooks, cabins, etc. These areas are particularly important if someone might be suicidal.

Believe me when I tell you, all the things you don't know, would fill many books. You are clueless. And just because this is the only point that I addressed WITHOUT QUESTION doesn't mean that everything else you have written isn't just as clueless. I just don't have the time to wade through all the bullshit you have written. This one just stood out. Back to work, for me. And I'm sure you'll continue to post musing and fantasies about all the things you don't have a clue about.

Hey Bobby, why would all of these people be spending all this time in the woods if they thought that she left in a car? They must all just be idiots I guess because you "know" that she isn't there. Oh and Fred kept coming back to the same area, searching over and over and over. Guess he doesn't think she might be in the area.

Bill

It all seems pretty useless when you consider a cut and dry conclusion.
( Maura forever lost in the woods).
Did she drive in a blur of tears thinking that she was with child and there was no use anymore?
Or did she pull a fast one and is now living a life free and clear of restrictions and boundaries?
Is there any chance she was followed by someone?
Who moved on from UMASS, and is this a clue of sorts?
Could Maura be in trouble and that's the part that explains the possible crime and criminal charges involved ?(when and if she is found safe and sound somewhere )
Is NH trying to protect themselves from just anybody gaining access to their records? Is that why they fought so hard in court, to make a generic plea for all future claims? The videos of Freds right to know appeal don't seem right to me in that they express a concern that Maura was possibly harmed. It only seems as though they are voicing the implications of what it would do to let case files be opened in the future to anyone when there's an investigation going on, period.
I sure wish I knew.
But even then I would be left wondering what led up to her mad dash form UMASS.
If her friends and family have any idea, any hint clue or hunch, they ought to concider making it known if they haven't already.
Somehow MR Renner found out about the spring/early summer romance with someone else. My point in mentioning that is that her friends were evidently not going to give up that information, it took MR Renner to find that they not only knew, but they may have encouraged this other relationship.
I see a broken heart in this mess, and I can relate to that.

Which reminds me.......Maura, if you're out there, I for one am sorry that your private matters have been dragged through the mud. I also hope you're ok and happy, and at peace with all you do.

And before I go, maybe this time for good b/c I am burned out I think.
~~~~~I'm also sorry that so many people had to be made out as (uncaring or suspect) in any way, as a consequence of Maura's actions. Human nature takes over and frustration will take on a roll of it's own. This may have been, or seemed like a tornado ripping through the White mountains,~ catching everything up in it's bluster of might.
There's a chance that someone did come along and things spiralled out of control that night, or in the following days. But let's face it...we don't know that.
Thanks for all the kind words, goodness will never escape me. I am just slow to reach out at times.

BobJenkins-OG wrote:

<quoted text>
I personally think they need to raise the pay scale on LE jobs to try to get better candidates.
It's a sad fact that it's super easy to become a cop. It was only a few years ago that they even started making a college degree a requirement and many small towns don't even require that. It requires no level of intelligence at all; any idiot can become a cop if they want to. Some of the stupidest kids I know from highschool are now cops. They went to the military and now are cops.
They need to make it more competitve to become a cop. They need to raise the pay scale to attract truly intelligent candidates. These people are entrusted to serve and protect the community, shouldn;t we want our best and brightest? And most sane?
LE in this country is a sad state of affairs right now; particularly in NH. We need to get our LE into the 21st century; starting with increasing pay and making it way more difficult to become a cop. We need good candidates, not idiot who can't get any other job and asshole kids who got made fun of their whole lives. I would say about 25% at least of cops are those very kids; that have an ax to grind with the rest of the world. 10% are truly good cops who are intelligent and got into it for the right reason. Then the other 65% are people who are there because it was the only good job they could get that has job security. These guys are getting up and going to work every day and doing their job, but just going through the motions. They're not bad but they aren't particularly good either.
Most cops don't even know the laws theyve been sworn to uphold, Go ask any lawyer if they think cops know the law, you'll get an earfull i'll tell you that much.
NH particularly needs to get with the program as far as LE goes. The good 'ol boy network is still alive and going strong up here and it needs to change.
I agree with your statement Shack, maybe the cold case list wouldn't be quite as long if we had better cops working the case in the first place when they were still hot

I love the haughty analysis by our resident social scientist, HR specialist and statistical analyst. Yes, there are percentages to validate his observational research!
I detect some personal resentment and attitude toward cops, in general. Perhaps some direct experience on the other end of the baton. He's-a-gonna bust up "The good 'ol boy network" ....force a change, he says.
Shack is also a cop hater, for whatever reason. It's evident over the years, and she makes no effort to cover it up in recent, barely intelligible posts.
So, now, it's a good thing I can remain focused and committed enough to plow through his important posts. I don't want to miss any stray thought or spark of brilliance.
Another day in the life of.....The Jenkins.

WTH-the-original wrote:

<quoted text>
Jesus bobby. I can't read through all the crap you write but this just happened to catch my eye. You are so clueless and yet unfortunately you have the time to blather on and on and on about things you know nothing about. In any search, one of the first places you search are "areas of attraction", like ponds, overlooks, cabins, etc. These areas are particularly important if someone might be suicidal.
Believe me when I tell you, all the things you don't know, would fill many books. You are clueless. And just because this is the only point that I addressed WITHOUT QUESTION doesn't mean that everything else you have written isn't just as clueless. I just don't have the time to wade through all the bullshit you have written. This one just stood out. Back to work, for me. And I'm sure you'll continue to post musing and fantasies about all the things you don't have a clue about.
Hey Bobby, why would all of these people be spending all this time in the woods if they thought that she left in a car? They must all just be idiots I guess because you "know" that she isn't there. Oh and Fred kept coming back to the same area, searching over and over and over. Guess he doesn't think she might be in the area.
Bill

What's funny about what you said there is that is true for everyone on planet earth: what they don't know could fill many many books, you included.

Are you saying that French Pond is an "area of attraction"??
Who the hell besides locals even know there's a pond on French pond Road? How could maura, a college student from mass who doesn't know the area know that she could go hide in a bobhouse on French pond rd?? Are you seriously saying that? And if you are I question your intelligence. You may have book smarts but you clearly have absolutely no street smarts there Billy.

Besides for the fact that I didnt state that as a fact, I asked if it is a possible indication that they were thinking foul play that night.
Your post about "areas of attraction" means absolutely nothing to convince anyone, except maybe the braintrust lol of you snowy and FrmLE

And what do you think about the fact that the SBD even went looking for her? If they thought she was on foot why would he go looking for her? Did he think she was going to accept his help now that he came and found her in his private vehicle? He says she was scared of him when he randomly arrives in his sb, she would have been scared shitless if he went and found her in his private vehicle. Obviously this doesn't prove anything but it sure does indicate that they didn't believe her to be on foot.
But hey, I could be wrong, stranger things have happened.

Snowy I don't hate cops or harbor resentment to them, probably half of my friends are currently cops.
I do dislike asshole scumbag cops like McKay & I'm sure frmLE would have been if je was ever a cop.

Snowy who are you trying to cover for? What are you trying to cover up?
Why do you care?
Or are you just afraid to admit there's a murderer walking the streets of your town?

You openly admit that you don't care about Maura, but you care about women beaters? WTH happened to you in your life to make you so bitter and your perception of reality so wharped?

You guys can say whatever you want about me; you ain't gonna hurt my feelings.
Honestly I know for a fact you guys aren't bein truthful anyways, either your insane and believe this crap you write or you guys are activively trying to cover for someone.
I wonder.....

Jenks - We know you don't take well to reaching consensus when you receive input, and you abhor any attempts to be persuaded, or convinced toward another point of view. I've given you my best, and I'm smart enough not to waste time duplicating that effort.

Believe me when I tell you I have rarely, if ever, had contact in my life with someone who thinks and writes as you do. It's intriguing.

You overshadow "Maura" by your rants. You've captured our attention, but not for the right reasons.

The only obvious fact and truth is that MM has disappeared for quite some time, the cold case is in the hands of authorities, and barring any new lead, the official status is unchanged in the public view.

You can breakdance all you want, and it won't make a dent in that truth.

Keep dancing.

Bobjenkins-OG wrote:

I figured out who frmLE really is!
He was the security guard at the steeplegate mall from 1987-2009. you know the guy that drives around the little golf cart?
Since then he's retired to florida where he's is a self:appointed neighborhood watch captain in the neighborhood next door to George Zimmerman
Can anybody else not see this guy appoint himself neighborhood watch captain?

Well if he is the mall cop that sure makes you look like an ass considering how easily and thoroughly he took you apart in the last 5 pages of this thread.

Ouch must be sore to be you

Cuban wrote:

<quoted text>
Well if he is the mall cop that sure makes you look like an ass considering how easily and thoroughly he took you apart in the last 5 pages of this thread.
Ouch must be sore to be you

Thats hysterical FRMLE is posting as Cuban and is patting himself on the back. To those that have been following FRMLE has posted with the address of Macon GA on many occasions. Good try FRMLE but you need to try harder. See post 10679 as an example. Also type in FRMLE Macon GA and many more come up. Give it up mall Cop.

BobJenkins-OG wrote:

<quoted text>
What's funny about what you said there is that is true for everyone on planet earth: what they don't know could fill many many books, you included.
Are you saying that French Pond is an "area of attraction"??
Who the hell besides locals even know there's a pond on French pond Road? How could maura, a college student from mass who doesn't know the area know that she could go hide in a bobhouse on French pond rd?? Are you seriously saying that? And if you are I question your intelligence. You may have book smarts but you clearly have absolutely no street smarts there Billy.

Again. I can't answer all these stupid posts but let me start a with a couple of things.

First: You are correct. There are books filled with things about subjects I know nothing about. The difference is, I don't come on a public forum and start pontificating about cold fusion. Telling everyone about the good and bad about it because I know virtually nothing. Unlike you, who prattles on and on about this and that when you also know clearly nothing about which you speak.

Second: To educate you further. Areas of attraction attract people because they are not just known to the locals. Because guess why? The locals usually make well worn paths to these areas, so even an idiot, like you, would be able to follow that path. THAT IS WHY THEY ARE SEARCHED FIRST. Along with footpaths and streams and other relatively easy areas of egress. These areas of attraction not only lead people there. They are also sometimes the areas they are found. Alive or dead.

Again. You would do well to read about what you speak. Then if you can keep your ego in check, and our mouth shut, not trying to show people everything you "know", join a fire department, or search and rescue group or CERT team. Something that will get you out from behind the computer and into the real world with people who can teach you something. Because I know I an getting tired of doing it. well I don't actually know if you are teachable. But I can at least inform the rest of the readers as to how clueless you are.

Bill

Bill do you actually believe this bullshit you write?

I find it hard to believe anyone can have such a warped sense of perception; particularly on you
"educating" people. Lol come on dude lol

I'm sorry but it makes absolutely no logical sense that they would check French pond before driving 3 min east, If they believed she was on foot by herself

It also makes no sense that the sbd would even go looking fr her if they thought she was on foot

BobJenkins-OG wrote:

particularly on you "educating" people.

Oh bobby. I suspect strongly that you aren't educable, but there are people on this forum over the years that have apparently learned from things I have written. They have told me. Sadly, I have never expected that you would be one of them.

I don't really know if you are as dense as you purport to be. Or just a contrarian. Either way. I will just continue to point out your stupidity, whenever it leaks out of you and onto this forum, not trying to waste time convincing you. But as a public service to thinking people who visit.

Bill