Maura Murray

Lighthouse 101 wrote:

<quoted text>
For your scenario to work you have to assume that Maura was willing to risk her security to get into the car with a total stranger rather than waiting by the car or in one of the local houses.
She was drinking before her first accident in MA and wasn't given a ticket so I'm thinking she would have took her chances with LE.
The rag in the tailpipe makes me think that she planned on coming back to the car at some point. Meaning she took off running and was going to come back to the car the next day or later on that night.

I think she was buzzing from the alcohol but not drunk. This person would have come across as relatively normal and I don't think she was forced into the car at first. She was out in the cold in the middle of the woods basically and if it were me I would take a ride anyway because it would be far better than the alternative. It just so happens that this person(s) ended up abducting her.

Butch Atwood went inside is house originally for a moment and I think it was within 3-4 minutes of him talking to her that a car picked her up in front of his house. He was inside though so he didn't see anything. When he went back out and got in the bus to wait for police Maura was already gone.

LE knew the dogs probably wouldn't get much scent when the initial search happened.scent particles don't hang around too long or don't adhere to the pavement in that cold of weather. This is per John Healy and Connecticut search & rescue. There is a good likelyhood she could have took off jogging and met up whomever she was traveling with...Fred possibly...or a creep...

amy researches wrote:

<quoted text>
A PI did question him. But that doesn't make him a suspect. To my knowledge, LE has not. Perhaps Stud has information to the contrary that he would like to share with us.

no info except Healy talking with him. Ever had a PI question you in a possible crime? No? Me either. But Beagle has. Also he's made the news. In America...and Europe...for taunting on her anniversary. What's the motive to do such insane crap? Entertainment? Go to a movie or a play. Don't taunt family. Not cool.

The Maura Murray case has the largest case files and has used up more man hours than any other in NH history-John Healy. LE and PI's have busted their hide on this case. Much respect for LE. I hate it when people don't know the effort these men and women put into their work.

Stud wrote:

LE knew the dogs probably wouldn't get much scent when the initial search happened.scent particles don't hang around too long or don't adhere to the pavement in that cold of weather. This is per John Healy and Connecticut search & rescue. There is a good likelyhood she could have took off jogging and met up whomever she was traveling with...Fred possibly...or a creep...

I agree that the scent is questionable. I think they did indeed track her scent 100 yards east but whether that is where it truly ended or if she kept walking/jogging is unknown. The police only brought one search dog originally but i still think she was picked up at that spot. If she did continue up Route 112 east She had to have been walking along the roadway because no tracks were found on the shoulders and passing vehicles would have seen her with their headlights. Their would have been at least dozens of cars that drove that stretch of road but none saw her.

The only two scenarios that I can imagine are she was again picked up right their 100 yards east of her accident or she walked up Bradley Hill Road which does not get as much traffic.

The thing about Bradley Hill Road though is that it is a relatively steep road especially farther up and it offers the path of most resistance so I cant understand why she would take that route but it is possible.

Route 112 West was searched along with the adjacent roads on the west side so It is highly improbable she went that direction.

Whomever abducted her would have violent tendencies and I am curious if the police did look into talking with sex offenders in the area.

JWB wrote:

from Nancy west Article:
"When visiting the Rausch family in Marengo, Ohio, Maura would add Bailey's to her coffee in the morning and drink Mike's Hard Lemonade with lunch, she said. Maura and Billy always had their stash of alcohol because Rausch doesn't drink, but she said Maura didn't drink excessively."

Thanks. That was the quote. I find it very difficult to reconcile the concept of anyone, in particular, a young person drinking in the morning (it sounding like it was the norm, not the exception) and needing a stash of alcohol and then someone else saying in the same sentence that, that person doesn't drink excessively. I may be the exception, though I doubt it. But I don't think I have ever had a drink in the morning - ever. Anyone else do even a little morning drinking, in particular, as a habit?

It appears that Maura had more than a little drinking problem. Having dealt with my share of people drunk and/or with drinking problems, I can emphatically state that people with drinking problems don't always make the best, most logical decisions.

Bill

anonymousone wrote:

<quoted text>
I agree that the scent is questionable. I think they did indeed track her scent 100 yards east but whether that is where it truly ended or if she kept walking/jogging is unknown. The police only brought one search dog originally but i still think she was picked up at that spot. If she did continue up Route 112 east She had to have been walking along the roadway because no tracks were found on the shoulders and passing vehicles would have seen her with their headlights. Their would have been at least dozens of cars that drove that stretch of road but none saw her.
The only two scenarios that I can imagine are she was again picked up right their 100 yards east of her accident or she walked up Bradley Hill Road which does not get as much traffic.
The thing about Bradley Hill Road though is that it is a relatively steep road especially farther up and it offers the path of most resistance so I cant understand why she would take that route but it is possible.
Route 112 West was searched along with the adjacent roads on the west side so It is highly improbable she went that direction.
Whomever abducted her would have violent tendencies and I am curious if the police did look into talking with sex offenders in the area.

How many people do you think would have stopped to offer her a ride? I think if anyone stopped they would have offered to wait with her until help came.
I also don't think MM would have jumped into a car and brought the alchol with her. If your avoiding LE for a DUI you don't bring evidence with you.
If she took off running down the road which I think she did, she probably would fear LE picking her up so she would have dodged incoming traffic, and not had the ability to get into a car.

The only way she leaves by car if she new the person driving.

If she truly had been drinking, the alcohol would most likely have hastened hypothermia. Also, she wasn't wearing a hat, or Butch Atwood would have seen it. Heat escapes quickly through an uncovered head, another thing to hasten hypothermia.

"The body starts to slow as the temperature drops. Aside from the cold that is felt and the shivering that may occur, mental function is most affected initially. A particular danger of hypothermia is that it develops gradually, and since it affects thinking and reasoning, it may go unnoticed."

"'I saw no blood...She was cold and she was shivering,' Atwood told the Caledonian Record."

She was already cold enough to shiver almost immediately after the accident. Among the risk factors for hypothermia, alcohol is always listed: "Substance abuse: Alcohol and drug abuse increase the risk of hypothermia in two ways. First, impaired judgment can lead to cold exposure. Additionally, alcohol and similar drugs can dilate blood vessels near the skin (vasodilation) and decrease the efficiency of the shivering mechanism, both of which decrease the body's ability to compensate for cold exposure."

I'm posting this info to bolster my "died of exposure" theory, but also to add that, if she was already mildly hypothermic, and mental function had decreased, she might have accepted a ride from a person without exercising the caution she would have used otherwise.

But I still think that hypothermia is a very valid reason for her to have wandered off into the woods. I have read so many stories about people dying from hypothermia - they do so many irrational things. Read "Into Thin Air" some time, or read about James Kim, who left his wife and two young children in their car on an Oregon back road to find help, and only had to keep walking down a road he was on to find civilization. Yet he, with so much to lose, became hypothermic, walked off the road into a creek bed, with a creek flowing, and followed it, with no trail, boulderhopping and having to walk in the creek, several miles until he finally succumbed to the elements. Nobody in their right mind would have done such a thing, but hypothermic people aren't in their right minds. That could easily have been the case with Maura, wandering off the road where search parties wouldn't think to look for her.

Maruchan wrote:

If she truly had been drinking, the alcohol would most likely have hastened hypothermia. Also, she wasn't wearing a hat, or Butch Atwood would have seen it. Heat escapes quickly through an uncovered head, another thing to hasten hypothermia.
"The body starts to slow as the temperature drops. Aside from the cold that is felt and the shivering that may occur, mental function is most affected initially. A particular danger of hypothermia is that it develops gradually, and since it affects thinking and reasoning, it may go unnoticed."
"'I saw no blood...She was cold and she was shivering,' Atwood told the Caledonian Record."
She was already cold enough to shiver almost immediately after the accident. Among the risk factors for hypothermia, alcohol is always listed: "Substance abuse: Alcohol and drug abuse increase the risk of hypothermia in two ways. First, impaired judgment can lead to cold exposure. Additionally, alcohol and similar drugs can dilate blood vessels near the skin (vasodilation) and decrease the efficiency of the shivering mechanism, both of which decrease the body's ability to compensate for cold exposure."
I'm posting this info to bolster my "died of exposure" theory, but also to add that, if she was already mildly hypothermic, and mental function had decreased, she might have accepted a ride from a person without exercising the caution she would have used otherwise.
But I still think that hypothermia is a very valid reason for her to have wandered off into the woods. I have read so many stories about people dying from hypothermia - they do so many irrational things. Read "Into Thin Air" some time, or read about James Kim, who left his wife and two young children in their car on an Oregon back road to find help, and only had to keep walking down a road he was on to find civilization. Yet he, with so much to lose, became hypothermic, walked off the road into a creek bed, with a creek flowing, and followed it, with no trail, boulderhopping and having to walk in the creek, several miles until he finally succumbed to the elements. Nobody in their right mind would have done such a thing, but hypothermic people aren't in their right minds. That could easily have been the case with Maura, wandering off the road where search parties wouldn't think to look for her.

I never could wrap my mind around why she would have been shivering
when SBD arrived unless she had been sitting in the car for a length of time before he arrived.
Does any one else have a recollection of FW saying that Maura was in her car for 20 min or so before she called 911? I thought I had read that at some point but am not sure.

Lighthouse 101 wrote:

<quoted text>How many people do you think would have stopped to offer her a ride? I think if anyone stopped they would have offered to wait with her until help came.

Had a very similar case occur in NH several years ago. Older woman than Maura but she had slid off the road in a particularly bad area. It was sleeting and snowing and it was starting to get dark. I had finally convinced her to sit in the car with me, my kid/wife/mother-in-law until the police got there figuring they were very busy with other crashes and considering the area we were in was pretty isolated and nightfall was approaching. While walking to the vehicle, the police arrived. At no time did I mention taking her anywhere. That was not an option I was offering. I was just trying to get her out of the weather and to a safer spot than outside her car that was off the road where other cars might slide into her.

Bill

I personally don't put a lot of stock into the "shivering". I believe SBD saw that, I just don't know if it was from the cold. Maybe, but it could just as easily have been from the adrenaline. Some people shake. No way to know for sure.

Bill

I have also helped people out many times. I will only help out if I see that there has been an accident or someone has run out of gas. I picked up two people in the notch 2 years ago and took them to a gas station and even paid for their gas and took them back to their car. I did this deed because myself and my folks had been helped in the past by good Samaritans and that was my way of repaying .

I will never pick up a general hitch hiker however

WTH-the-original wrote:

<quoted text>
Had a very similar case occur in NH several years ago. Older woman than Maura but she had slid off the road in a particularly bad area. It was sleeting and snowing and it was starting to get dark. I had finally convinced her to sit in the car with me, my kid/wife/mother-in-law until the police got there figuring they were very busy with other crashes and considering the area we were in was pretty isolated and nightfall was approaching. While walking to the vehicle, the police arrived. At no time did I mention taking her anywhere. That was not an option I was offering. I was just trying to get her out of the weather and to a safer spot than outside her car that was off the road where other cars might slide into her.
Bill

Its not that easy to just randomly get a ride. I think some poeple just forget and assume that any and everyone will pull over and say "where to miss?"

Lighthouse 101 wrote:

<quoted text>
Its not that easy to just randomly get a ride. I think some poeple just forget and assume that any and everyone will pull over and say "where to miss?"

Thankfully the odds of abduction are low but they do happen.Maura wanted to get away from the scene of the crash (so it appears)The SBD was only going to take her to his house or call LE and neither would work for Maura under the circumstances.

WTH-the-original wrote:

I personally don't put a lot of stock into the "shivering". I believe SBD saw that, I just don't know if it was from the cold. Maybe, but it could just as easily have been from the adrenaline. Some people shake. No way to know for sure.
Bill

That is my take on it also- I don't think hypothermia was setting in at that point. You must admit that there are many unusual things with what we know about the SBD story. Many inconsistencies.

Stud wrote:

LE knew the dogs probably wouldn't get much scent when the initial search happened.scent particles don't hang around too long or don't adhere to the pavement in that cold of weather. This is per John Healy and Connecticut search & rescue. There is a good likelyhood she could have took off jogging and met up whomever she was traveling with...Fred possibly...or a creep...

This is simply wrong. Cold weather does not make tracking more difficult. Rather the opposite, frost/ice/thawing would make the scent particles hang around longer.

WTH-the-original wrote:

<quoted text>
Lighthouse, where did you get this information? I have always suspected that she was drinking at the first accident but like you said there were no charges filed. Is this just your speculation or did you find something that makes that a fact?
Bill

Bill it also says on the Hanson Express article that she and her father were having dinner at Amherst Brewing Co where Maura's friend showed up and after dinner and drinks Fred was ready to go back to the motel.
After that Maura attended a party back in the dorm where the girls were chatting and drinking Skyy Blue malt mixed with wine.

Don't know if this link will work but check out about the 8th thru 10th paragraph.
http://www.whitmanhansonexpress.com/extras/sp...

Forgot to say the article is in part 1(The Departure).

anonymousone wrote:

<quoted text>
I agree that the scent is questionable. I think they did indeed track her scent 100 yards east but whether that is where it truly ended or if she kept walking/jogging is unknown. The police only brought one search dog originally but i still think she was picked up at that spot. If she did continue up Route 112 east She had to have been walking along the roadway because no tracks were found on the shoulders and passing vehicles would have seen her with their headlights. Their would have been at least dozens of cars that drove that stretch of road but none saw her.
The only two scenarios that I can imagine are she was again picked up right their 100 yards east of her accident or she walked up Bradley Hill Road which does not get as much traffic.
The thing about Bradley Hill Road though is that it is a relatively steep road especially farther up and it offers the path of most resistance so I cant understand why she would take that route but it is possible.
Route 112 West was searched along with the adjacent roads on the west side so It is highly improbable she went that direction.
Whomever abducted her would have violent tendencies and I am curious if the police did look into talking with sex offenders in the area.

That stretch of road back then had very few cars traveling it, especially in the winter.Many times driving to Lincoln I might pass one or two cars or maybe not a one.
At least one of the witnesses stated that a "few" cars went by.
Weekends were a little busier as skiers coming from Interstate 91 would go that route to Loon Mountain.

Is Bradley Hill Road sparsely settled?Is it a road used by through traffic or mainly by residents whom reside on the street?It is possible she turned down BHR to get off the main road..Also,isnt that where A red truck was seen?