Maura Murray

amy researches wrote:

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Dll, the rumors on this forum are a little bit like that, too.:-)
It looks like at least one reporter spoke with Mr. Murray about the rag. There might have been others as well.
"Sergeant Smith found a rag stuffed in the tailpipe of the Saturn during his accident scene investigation. The rag came from the trunk of Maura's car, part of an emergency roadside kit her father had stored in the trunk."
"Considering that the car was experiencing mechanical problems, Fred Murray said at the time that it was possible Maura had stuffed the rag into the tailpipe herself if smoke was coming out of it and she wanted to plug it up."

Thnx Amy. I'd seen the article in earlier posts, but I went back and read it again. I must be interpreting it differently. Based on the previous paragraph to me it reads like the the author of the SACO article is requoting earlier reports based on a statement by Fred to Lavoi. Not a direct quote to the author Kelly Miller by Fred. To be clear I'm not saying Mr. Lavoi is lying or even would have reason to. I've just found that not all people have the same lsitening skills. Which is why I would've really liked one of the reporters to have asked him the question on camera. You know his mouth to our ears.

I mentioned the white rag versus pink rag because most commercial mechanic shops, machine shops etc used the pinkish/red "recycled" rags, purchased in bulk they're cheaper. Some body shops do use the white "non recycled" rags because they have no metal particles in them. Better for body work. However not all, especially the smaller shops. For me the white rag made it more likely it came from some form of emergency car kit. My envisioning a pink rag all those yrs was simply a reminder that our perception is based on what we are familier with right or wrong. Basically a reminder to myself to keep an open mind.

Lady Gray wrote:

And, again, not that it really matters...but I'd like to elaborate on what I said earlier. There are many times when information could be clarified or expanded or expounded upon by some of those that have been around for awhile. We remain, and check in, time to time to see what's new. What's up, ya know?
Nothing changes. Same questions are asked. But we chose not to respond because then an entirely new direction takes off and accusations are thrown around. Have you noticed what happens to Citigirl when she takes the time to stop and respond on here?

Poor citigirl, lol. You make me laugh lady gray.

GrampaMo wrote:

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Pay it no mind dll. There are a few here that believe only their path should be taken. Step off that path and you get nuts' white light bulbs,etc. I just ignore them.

Thnx Grampamo appreciate the advice. Back in May when I first found the forum I read looking for information/answers. Through that process I found there seemed to be an equally interesting story about those who post here. Each with their own distinct personality, style & reason for being here. Although all are strangers to me I could/can appreciate the enormous amount of time & devostion all have put into finding an answer. So please I dont want to come across as a winea$$. I get it's frustrating when newbies ask stupid questions. However I'm of the generation that believes the only stupid question is the one you never asked AND there's no shame in not knowing the answer, only in not being willingt to look for it. When I made my first post I'd accepted there could/would be derogatory remarks directed at me. You cant throw your hat in the ring without expecting others to take shots at it. Before posting I decided I would not engage in rude, crude & socially unacceptable behavior. But I do respect apposing views. So I'd rather be told directly why someone feels something is nuts, or clueless or they disagree. Just seems it would be more productive.

amy researches wrote:

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It looks like at least one reporter spoke with Mr. Murray about the rag. There might have been others as well.

Ok, so I went back & read it a third time. Still reads like a requote & not a direct quote to me. Not saying I'm right. Just my interpretation. Also further into the article Miller does have a direct quote from the PI O'connell (using quotations marks) where O'Connell suggests the foul play theory about the rag. The PI team is working at the request of Fred. Do you think it's reasonable to assume O'Connell asked Fred about the rag? Too bad Miller didnt ask the next question after O'Connell gave his theory. Would have been nice to clear up at least one thing.

Orko Kringer wrote:

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I am familiar with the supervisor coming on the forums a few years ago. At the time she gave conflicting info. In one instance she said her and maura were extremely close then in other incidents she notes that she knew maura from being her supervisor only.
My point is, the supervisor could be a very valuable source to much of what has been debated about this case (she could provide factual info about the specific job she was a supervisor for (like could maura have feasibly left her security desk for 30 minutes and be the one who hit petrit vasi)?
She could clear that kind of info up really quick. Plus the time she spent with maura when she found maura in a zombie-like state needs to be explained much better than what she did on some board and from her interview with james renner.
It's a shame that all those detailed stories done on the maura murray case (some that even won awards) and it took a non-reporter (james Renner) to actually come through with a legit interview with a key person in the maura murray case.

James Renner obviously knows the correct questions to ask .....but, I don't remember reading anything new that hadn't been heard before......I need to go back and re-read.

Just me--paris wrote:

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You seem to be itching for a fight citigirl. You surely know I have NOT spoken to anyone in NH, let alone FW. It's what she said. I also think I do take you wrong at times because you cound evasive and that frustrates me. You of all people would have more firm answers i would hope.

not itching for a fight at all. Just posting what I and others have learned from interviewing others concerning Mauras disappearance. Only trying to state what we have been told from others the way it was said to us. I have my own thoughts and opinions as to what has been said after talking with others but if I add my own opinion into it then it changes what they have said.

This is just a hunch, thinking outside of the box a little (forgive me)...

But after watching news footage and interviews again with fresh eyes, one thing that stands out to me is that Fred Murray appears to carry a profound sense of guilt concerning his interaction with Maura the weekend before she went missing. This suggests to me that he and Maura had a pretty big falling-out after she wrecked his new car, and this falling-out might have been the last straw that pushed Maura over the edge. In light of what we now know about Maura -- credit card fraud, dismissal from West Point, problematic relationships with her mother and with Billy, etc.-- the accident in FM's car in Hadley, Mass. might have been the tipping point.

Now -- One thing that has been treated with speculation (and rightly so) is the possibility that Maura was involved with a hit-and-run accident involving UMass student Petrit Vasi, who was in a coma but subsequently recovered. If Maura was in fact involved with that accident, it might certainly explain a few things --(1) her father wanting to get her a new car right away, if he was aware of what had happened; (2) her father being furious when he then wrecked his new car, especially if alcohol was a factor; (3) Maura intentionally wrecking her Saturn in an effort to cover up damage from the Petrit Vasi accident; and (4) Maura wanting to disappear, because if Petrit Vasi had died and she was found guilty of hit-and-run, she might have been thrown in jail for quite a while.

I'm sorry if I've offended anyone by making these speculations; I don't want to wrongly blame Maura for her disappearance, or to make her sound like a common criminal. But we're all clutching at straws here, so I thought I'd share these ideas.

Lady Gray wrote:

<quoted text>I'm doing what WTH - hey WTH!- says some of us are guilty of....checking in and quickly checking out. But ya see, in my heart of hearts, I have faith that one day there will be a resolution and am leaving up to the professionals.

Hey LG, how are you doing? You know that I was never referring to you with that comment. And yes, I fully agree that this case will eventually be solved by the professionals, not some of the ya-hoos that come here. But not before a break of some kind.

Bill

"The w-mans did say that they had just seen Maura at her car 1-2 minutes before police came."
My question:Did the W-mans see Which LE car arrived first?
Someone driving by saw HPD car #1 at the scene.Did the W-mans see car#1 at the scene?

Maruchan wrote:

<quoted text>Please go back a page or two to Jenkins' post #22770 posted yesterday, and his posts following. He is theorizing that LE thought it was a case of foul play from the instant that LE arrived at the scene of the accident. He posts many theories why this is so.Your post above says clearly that Major Crimes Unit did not become involved until 3 days AFTER Maura disappeared. That does not fit with Jenkins' theories that LE was involved immediately upon their initial involvement, and his statement that "This has been investigated by major crimes since the beginning," therefore, IS NOT TRUE.

if this is another attempt to say im lying then its wicked lame. We are talking an 8 yr investigation, if u dont consider day 3 the beginning then idk what to tell you. did i say they were on scene that nite? I believe that smith initially thoght foul play when he arrived on scene, this is the only thing that explains all of his actions imo.

Jenkins wrote:

<quoted text> if this is another attempt to say im lying then its wicked lame. We are talking an 8 yr investigation, if u dont consider day 3 the beginning then idk what to tell you. did i say they were on scene that nite? I believe that smith initially thoght foul play when he arrived on scene, this is the only thing that explains all of his actions imo.

Jenkins when you say you think CS thought foul play when he arrived on scene do you mean specific to Maura & her disapearance? Or in general CS didnt think it was a typical single car accident with possible alcohol involved?

thomas11106 wrote:

This is just a hunch, thinking outside of the box a little (forgive me)...
But after watching news footage and interviews again with fresh eyes, one thing that stands out to me is that Fred Murray appears to carry a profound sense of guilt concerning his interaction with Maura the weekend before she went missing. This suggests to me that he and Maura had a pretty big falling-out after she wrecked his new car, and this falling-out might have been the last straw that pushed Maura over the edge. In light of what we now know about Maura -- credit card fraud, dismissal from West Point, problematic relationships with her mother and with Billy, etc.-- the accident in FM's car in Hadley, Mass. might have been the tipping point.
Now -- One thing that has been treated with speculation (and rightly so) is the possibility that Maura was involved with a hit-and-run accident involving UMass student Petrit Vasi, who was in a coma but subsequently recovered. If Maura was in fact involved with that accident, it might certainly explain a few things --(1) her father wanting to get her a new car right away, if he was aware of what had happened; (2) her father being furious when he then wrecked his new car, especially if alcohol was a factor; (3) Maura intentionally wrecking her Saturn in an effort to cover up damage from the Petrit Vasi accident; and (4) Maura wanting to disappear, because if Petrit Vasi had died and she was found guilty of hit-and-run, she might have been thrown in jail for quite a while.
I'm sorry if I've offended anyone by making these speculations; I don't want to wrongly blame Maura for her disappearance, or to make her sound like a common criminal. But we're all clutching at straws here, so I thought I'd share these ideas.

thomas,
Very well and succinctly put. I tend to agree with your conclusions.
Even so, we have of course no way of knowing what happened to Maura after the WB crash in NH.
Foul play? Succesful run-away? Suicide? Victim of hit-and-run? Other kind of accident? Death from hypothermia?

amy researches wrote:

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But I agree it's always easier to believe when someone says the same thing to more than one source. Speaking of on-camera, it's interesting that the rag was not mentioned in the Disappeared program.

My thoughts exactly. I understand why LE wouldn't want to discuss the rag early in the investigation and even now. I just can't understand why Fred wouldn't want to clear up any confusion about whether he did or didn't make the statement. He seemed to have a good rapport with M Conway. It would have been the perfect time to ask.

amy researches wrote:

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Hi Orko. I wasn't around for the early forums. Do you know whether the supervisor ever mentioned on the forum if Maura would have been able to leave her desk during the shift? Or if there is a schedule or record of when people take their breaks? I agree with you that it would be helpful for a reporter to have interviewed her at the beginning. After 8 years, memories aren't as clear and the little details can easily be overlooked.

here is one of the dorm supervisor's posts

Kmayotte posted:

"I first wanted to thank Sharon for responding to Pike's comments regarding the supervisor who spoke to Maura the last night of work. I am the supervisor, as well as Maura's good friend, and that night will not leave my mind. Please do not assume that I did not help Maura, because reading the recent post was upsetting. I love Maura, and I did everything in my power to help her. I held her as she was crying, I walked her back to her room, I gave her my cell phone so I could bring her to Dunkin Donuts in the morning. Previous to that I had begged to bring her to a campus counselor, or just out to Dunkins that night when she got out of shift. She told me that she was okay, and that she would be going home to a roommate (which I never realized beforehand that she had a single room). After Maura headed up to her room I did call my boss, telling him of the situation and that I did not like leaving her in such a condition. I was unable to go up to her dorm room because my walkie talkie gear would of not gotten a signal in the tower that she lives in.

Pike also wondered why I did not call her parents...I do not have access to her personal information, and I was only friends with her on a work-related atmosphere. The next morning I woke up ready to take Maura to Dunkins, however I could not get in contact with her and I had a five year old son at home with a flu.

I hope this post allows people to realize I did the most I could for my friend. I love Maura, and it is relieving to read up on all the posts of caring friends and family."

Just a couple of notes:

Several points she mentions she is maura's good friend, yet in other instances including her interview with James Renner, she comes off as basically just knowing maura through being her supervisor.

When she says she gave maura her cell phone (she is meaning cell phone number, so don't get confused).

If you read this and no nothing more about that night, you get the impression that the supervisor had to basically carry maura across campus to her dorm in this big dramatic scene. Yet in reality, Maura's dorm entrance is less than 50-yards away from the dorm entrance maura worked security.(it is literally next door).

Other facts: Supervisor did think maura was in such a state that she should go directly to the hospital and seek counseling that same night.

Supervisor was lied too by maura.

Supervisor wanted to walk maura up to her room, maura assured her she would be alright because she had a roommate that could be with her ... when in reality maura lived by herself.

here is another forum post from maura's supervisor

Interesting note: Maura's supervisor has never been contacted for an interview by anyone in law enforcement.

Kmayotte posted:

"I forget who was asking this question....but someone was wondering if there was a computer or "courtesy phone" at the security desk. There was no computer at the security desk. There is a security phone that Maura plugged in at the start of her shift. This phone has an unlisted phone number so calls can not come in on the phone, unless from the security office or police station. However you can make outgoing calls...but only local distance (unless you use calling cards but who knows). That means you can call other dorm rooms, or make calls in Amherst. I have no clue who would have records of outgoing calls. Also I have a feeling it would not be feasible to find such a record either, however I am unsure.

So as to answer the phone call question...I am unsure of when a call was made/receieved or from whom. Hope this helps, and wish I had more information."

Orko Kringer wrote:

here is another forum post from maura's supervisor
Interesting note: Maura's supervisor has never been contacted for an interview by anyone in law enforcement.
Kmayotte posted:
"I forget who was asking this question....but someone was wondering if there was a computer or "courtesy phone" at the security desk. There was no computer at the security desk. There is a security phone that Maura plugged in at the start of her shift. This phone has an unlisted phone number so calls can not come in on the phone, unless from the security office or police station. However you can make outgoing calls...but only local distance (unless you use calling cards but who knows). That means you can call other dorm rooms, or make calls in Amherst. I have no clue who would have records of outgoing calls. Also I have a feeling it would not be feasible to find such a record either, however I am unsure.
So as to answer the phone call question...I am unsure of when a call was made/receieved or from whom. Hope this helps, and wish I had more information."

Orko, Orko, Orko...just WHO are you really? You had saved these postings also? So, will you please tell me the new info that Renner gleaned from his interview with the supervisor? I don't have time to go back and read....

And, was it Amy who apologized if she offended me? No, I can't say it was......I'm referring to a compilation that have accrued over the years.

Amy, actually I should've said it's a compilation of postings from others (not newbies) that have been offensive over the years.

I've always enjoyed seeing new people come in and asking questions. But I don't enjoy the controversy it stirs up. I just check in and out on the forums to see if anything new is going on.

Lady Gray wrote:

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Orko, Orko, Orko...just WHO are you really? You had saved these postings also? So, will you please tell me the new info that Renner gleaned from his interview with the supervisor? I don't have time to go back and read....
And, was it Amy who apologized if she offended me? No, I can't say it was......I'm referring to a compilation that have accrued over the years.

Lady Gray,

You may have misunderstood me.

I don't believe James uncovered anything too substantial from his interview with the supervisor other then to find out that maura had specifically said "My Sister" when the supervisor finally got maura to answer what was wrong (which really could've been maura's way of getting the supervisor off her back so she didn't have to go in detail about what was really wrong).

I was trying to make the point that it took many years after the fact for someone to finally on the record interview the supervisor.
and that person wasn't even a technical professional journalist.

She was one of the very first people James interviewd when he got his whole blog started and unfortunately at that time, he was still just learning about the case (otherwise, I bet his questions would've yielded more relevant answers from the supervisor).

Orko Kringer wrote:

here is another forum post from maura's supervisor
Interesting note: Maura's supervisor has never been contacted for an interview by anyone in law enforcement.
Kmayotte posted:
"I forget who was asking this question....but someone was wondering if there was a computer or "courtesy phone" at the security desk. There was no computer at the security desk. There is a security phone that Maura plugged in at the start of her shift. This phone has an unlisted phone number so calls can not come in on the phone, unless from the security office or police station. However you can make outgoing calls...but only local distance (unless you use calling cards but who knows). That means you can call other dorm rooms, or make calls in Amherst. I have no clue who would have records of outgoing calls. Also I have a feeling it would not be feasible to find such a record either, however I am unsure.
So as to answer the phone call question...I am unsure of when a call was made/receieved or from whom. Hope this helps, and wish I had more information."

Thank you, Orko. It's interesting to read these and answers a few of the questions I had been thinking about. She sounds like a nice person who did everything she could to help.

amy researches wrote:

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Hi citigirl. Nice to see you. No, I am not stating that I know what Maura's condition was that night. But it is my opinion based on the circumstantial evidence that she had been drinking:
Around 5:00, Scarinza talks about the box of wine found in the car, pink liquid poured into the snow, and a coke bottle that smelled like there had been an alcoholic beverage in that bottle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
"The report discusses the liquid, with Smith noting, "When the vehicle was towed from the scene ... I recovered a Coke bottle that contained a red liquid with a strong alcoholic odor.""
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search...
“reddish spots resembling wine were also found on the road, according to investigator John Healy.”
http://www.whitmanhansonexpress.com/extras/sp...
I can't think of any reason to pour out the liquid except if you're trying to get rid of evidence that you were drinking while driving.
I don't want to post the name of the person who told me the pink liquid/alcohol was spilled behind the car. I thought it was common knowledge, but perhaps I misunderstood or the person who told me this was mistaken. The above sources say the liquid was found in the snow and the road but don't specify where. If my info is incorrect, then I apologize.
My point in the prior post was that during the hasty search that night performed by the officer and bus driver, it is theoretically possible that their motivation for searching for her was not based on evidence of foul play (as another poster suggested) but rather out of concern for her safety since she was possibly intoxicated or injured. I hope this clears up any misunderstanding.

Thank you Amy. I was aware of CS's findings after the car was towed. I and others talked with responders and they had said that there were only one set of foot prints behind the vehicle.