Maura Murray

just me wrote:

I'm going to harp on this one more time. Let the family have a copy of Maura's hard drive. It's something that was left back in Maura's dorm and if everything else went back to the family, can't this "technicality" be overturned too?
Dang it anyway. I feel for Maura's loved ones that they can't even look over her computer activities.
Someone could have been signing into her account too and Ip's would give that away. I think. Ben Franklin, where are you?
Seriously, I hope someone out there reading this will have a heart, 8 years later, to let family have that computer back the way Maura left it. They can keep the dang copies.
Ok, I'm done harping. Thanks for listening.

I understand where you're coming from, and I feel for Maura's family too.

On the other hand, I can also understand the state's decision not to release her hard drive. If it is learned later that Maura was killed by someone she knew, and she had email contact with this person, then maybe certain emails that didn't seem to mean much before will suddenly be important and could help lead to a conviction. I can understand the state wanting to preserve evidence.

There is also a privacy consideration. Although I personally doubt that Maura is still alive, it is possible, in which case she is entitled to her privacy.

There is also the consideration of the privacy of others who she had email contact with. Should the names of everyone on her contact list, and all of the private correspondence they had with Maura, be subject to questioning from media and the public? Should their names be posted on the internet in forums like this with speculation and accusations fair game to them? This would be wrong, in my opinion.

Just my thoughts/opinions about this.

If Mauras family had admitted to looking at her computer that they had for months, they may have been asked what they had found.That would have meant making Mauras' prior life public and that was deemed not important.As for the tailpipe rag in winter a muffler cools very fast.Someone wearing gloves or not could easily throw a handfull of snow on it and use there night stick to stuff it in there.take care philip

whiston wrote:

If Mauras family had admitted to looking at her computer that they had for months, they may have been asked what they had found.That would have meant making Mauras' prior life public and that was deemed not important.As for the tailpipe rag in winter a muffler cools very fast.Someone wearing gloves or not could easily throw a handfull of snow on it and use there night stick to stuff it in there.take care philip

The rate something cools is related to the mass of the object, the exposed surface area, the type of material and the medium the heat is being transferred to/through. Your statement that a muffler cools very fast is like saying it gets dark rapidly at night. It has no meaning unless you specify how fast "very fast" is? Please tell me whose night stick was being used also? I didn't know that Maura traveled with a nightstick, so whose night stick was being used to do this dastardly deed?

Bill

amy researches wrote:

<quoted text>
I understand where you're coming from, and I feel for Maura's family too.
On the other hand, I can also understand the state's decision not to release her hard drive. If it is learned later that Maura was killed by someone she knew, and she had email contact with this person, then maybe certain emails that didn't seem to mean much before will suddenly be important and could help lead to a conviction. I can understand the state wanting to preserve evidence.
There is also a privacy consideration. Although I personally doubt that Maura is still alive, it is possible, in which case she is entitled to her privacy.
There is also the consideration of the privacy of others who she had email contact with. Should the names of everyone on her contact list, and all of the private correspondence they had with Maura, be subject to questioning from media and the public? Should their names be posted on the internet in forums like this with speculation and accusations fair game to them? This would be wrong, in my opinion.
Just my thoughts/opinions about this.

***Should the names of everyone on her contact list, and all of the private correspondence they had with Maura, be subject to questioning from media and the public? Should their names be posted on the internet in forums like this with speculation and accusations fair game to them?***
Definitely NOT! I think many here have seen what happens when names and personal information are posted on an internet forum.

If true as stated on here that maura's family had her computer for weeks/months and never bothered to look at it because they aren't computer savvy enough, then something is not passing the smell test.

That computer would have valuable info on it and the family would've at minimum paid someone to come in and extract what was on the computer.

To claim otherwise makes no sense at all. the family just doesn't want was on the computer released fully to the public.

The police do know what was on the computer and its amazing (not really, just being sarcastic) how they stuck with a suicide/run-away theory even after seeing the computer's contents.

whiston wrote:

If Mauras family had admitted to looking at her computer that they had for months, they may have been asked what they had found.

If they looked at the computer why then would they need it back? If something important was found I would think a copy would be given to the PI's? If something important was found I would think they would want LE to have it.

FM makes clear mention in the letter to the governor that he wants the PC to maybe show MM's possible destination. I would have thought he would have wanted to look that up immediately while the pc was in his hands.

Also in the Disappeared episode FM says "She was going to Bartlett" and he says it with conviction. I'm at a loss on how five years later with no new information he is now able to say where she was going, when five years ago he was asking the governor for the PC back to find her possible destination.

just me wrote:

<quoted text>
Hi Wowzer, no link, no proof except the cottage witness who says she went by, and then there's the Columbo team who all think so. Maybe the logs are incomplete for reasons like this, IDK. I need help to show all the reports of a possible first wreck. So many put the initial accident of a lone female just after 7.

The cottage witness is referring to the accident scene on 112. This is the accident scene this person drove by the one on 112. There are no reports of a possible first accident that I have ever seen. It was a poster who stated many months later after Maura disappeared that a vehicle slid off the road and the female left in a private vehicle prior to the accident on 112. Originally I believed this poster. But as time went on and I read postings from this person I ended up having big doubts about a first accident. I could be wrong but this is my opinion concerning a possible accident before 112.

hi all about Mauras' computer.One nuclear medical technician, 2 Westpoint graduates involved in the search for Maura.These people did not search the computer give me a break.I guess some of them were not allowed to see it.After 15 minutes at that temperature the tailpipe would be cool and it may have been reversed into the snow.take care philip

whiston wrote:

hi all about Mauras' computer.One nuclear medical technician, 2 Westpoint graduates involved in the search for Maura.These people did not search the computer give me a break.I guess some of them were not allowed to see it.After 15 minutes at that temperature the tailpipe would be cool and it may have been reversed into the snow.take care philip

Of course no one was allowed to search the computer because it was in the possesion of LE. There was a West Point professor and his wife involved in the search for Maura I believe in the first 2 weeks she disappeared. I and my sister became involved in the search for Maura in March of 04. There was a person from NH as well as A person from Maine as well as Fred. Sorry Whiston you were not there I was so you have no clue as to was there searching.

whiston wrote:

After 15 minutes at that temperature the tailpipe would be cool and it may have been reversed into the snow.take care philip

Not saying that your guess is correct BUT, if it was 15 minutes, wouldn't that be 5 minutes AFTER Maura disappears?

Bill

amy researches wrote:

<quoted text>
I understand where you're coming from, and I feel for Maura's family too.
On the other hand, I can also understand the state's decision not to release her hard drive. If it is learned later that Maura was killed by someone she knew, and she had email contact with this person, then maybe certain emails that didn't seem to mean much before will suddenly be important and could help lead to a conviction. I can understand the state wanting to preserve evidence.
There is also a privacy consideration. Although I personally doubt that Maura is still alive, it is possible, in which case she is entitled to her privacy.
There is also the consideration of the privacy of others who she had email contact with. Should the names of everyone on her contact list, and all of the private correspondence they had with Maura, be subject to questioning from media and the public? Should their names be posted on the internet in forums like this with speculation and accusations fair game to them? This would be wrong, in my opinion.
Just my thoughts/opinions about this.

\I very much agree with you here and hadn't thought of that at all. I'm so glad you thought to post that for us, especially for me, so I can get that out of my head. And here I thought I was a real thinker, lol.
I guess I just don't to want to believe that anything bad happened to her. I know I'm just a far away speck with no ties to Maura at all. But I have always cared about this case immensely. It was all over the news here in MN. The picture they painted, the things they said were very different from the picture that we all got online and in the virtual news.
I stay with things that don't add up for some reason and this one is a real dooozy.

citigirl wrote:

<quoted text>The cottage witness is referring to the accident scene on 112. This is the accident scene this person drove by the one on 112. There are no reports of a possible first accident that I have ever seen. It was a poster who stated many months later after Maura disappeared that a vehicle slid off the road and the female left in a private vehicle prior to the accident on 112. Originally I believed this poster. But as time went on and I read postings from this person I ended up having big doubts about a first accident. I could be wrong but this is my opinion concerning a possible accident before 112.

Thank you citigirl. I mean it when I say I respect your answers and point of view. I shouldn't have said what I did yesterday and have since realized that you try your best to keep your answers straight to the point. Your answers sometimes come across as evasive,(maybe just to me because I don't understand at times)but you are so kind to mind your manners like you do, and not read into things. I admire that. I'm happy that you can still respond to some of us (like me), who may have ever offended you.
As for the other poster, I don't know, but she's bound to recall this because it was a moment in time for her. Her friend, new to winter driving may have driven off the road, only to leave again in a private vehicle. I would hope that as a social worker she would take the telling of it back if she thought it to be untrue.
The private investigaors thought there was a first accident too. But as some do say, maybe the car was demolished to hide any previous damage. I would hope that's not what this is all about, and that Maura was tricked in the process.

Lighthouse 101 wrote:

<quoted text>
If they looked at the computer why then would they need it back? If something important was found I would think a copy would be given to the PI's? If something important was found I would think they would want LE to have it.
FM makes clear mention in the letter to the governor that he wants the PC to maybe show MM's possible destination. I would have thought he would have wanted to look that up immediately while the pc was in his hands.
Also in the Disappeared episode FM says "She was going to Bartlett" and he says it with conviction. I'm at a loss on how five years later with no new information he is now able to say where she was going, when five years ago he was asking the governor for the PC back to find her possible destination.

All good points. Maybe police told Fred at some point that it appeared as though she were going to Bartlett. I would think they must talk from time to time. The truth is Maura is/was over 21 and her privacy should be respected. The fact that police continue to look at this case says alot to me. Recently I posted an article where police were going to try and see if this IK person could have had something to do with Louise and Maura. There are so many cold cases, why just those two in particular?

just me wrote:

<quoted text>I very much agree with you here and hadn't thought of that at all. I'm so glad you thought to post that for us, especially for me, so I can get that out of my head. And here I thought I was a real thinker, lol.
I guess I just don't to want to believe that anything bad happened to her. I know I'm just a far away speck with no ties to Maura at all. But I have always cared about this case immensely. It was all over the news here in MN. The picture they painted, the things they said were very different from the picture that we all got online and in the virtual news.
I stay with things that don't add up for some reason and this one is a real dooozy.

Hmmm I wonder if it made the news here in IL. I never heard about it until the Disappeared program. I remember watching it and thinking I hoped she was one of the ones who had run away and later was found, like a few others the show has profiled. Then I looked online for updates and found Renner's blog and this forum. I honestly can't imagine how hard it must be to be these families. My family has dealt with suicide and murder, but at least both times we had our answer. Not knowing would kill me. I think about Maura's mother passing away not knowing what happened to her daughter and I can't imagine how hard that must be, even though these are people I don't know. So yeah, I do care also, although I know I have made a few enemies here in topixland, but the bottom line for me is that I hope the family someday gets their answer.

Wowzer the real one wrote:

<quoted text>
***Should the names of everyone on her contact list, and all of the private correspondence they had with Maura, be subject to questioning from media and the public? Should their names be posted on the internet in forums like this with speculation and accusations fair game to them?***
Definitely NOT! I think many here have seen what happens when names and personal information are posted on an internet forum.

True, true, true. But what about notebooks and pieces of paper found in Maura's room. If it were part of her private belongings, did they sift and make judgements there too in relation to privacy issues? Or did they just alllow box after packed box to be given to family? They let the family have her personal email that she had left on top of some boxes. Not expecting an answer, and it's nothing you said. I'm just wondering where the fine line is drawn.

Remember oh my? He had every Tom, Dick, and Harry guilty of doing "it" to Maura. Others have tried as well to put names to people they suspect. Bad idea. Tell the right people is what I say. They were blowing smoke. They couldn't ALL be involved, sheeze, very reckless to say the least.
The early MMM forums were a one way street for the most part. You couldn't say or ask anything that would put Maura in the wrong light. We were encouraged to look at each "player" who could be involved. But involved in what? I hate to think of all the damage this has caused and I know alot of people still try to help even so. When I saw Mr Atwood, he looked like a good, decent man to me. Just my personal opinion, but if Maura was afraid of him it was likely because he could ID her and detect if she were drinking, if she was. I think a pop bottle with liquer smell tossed or poured out into the snow pretty much says if I don't get out of here quick, I have to toss this out fast. She could have just capped it though and put it in her back pack. To me, this seems wierd. She did crash, fact. Then she moved her car, fact. She did walk around her car and spent some time at the trunk. But she was witnessed by caller #1 as being AT the car only 1-2 minutes before police arrived.
I still think she could have hid in her trunk and waited for silence to make her get away. Oh well, heck if I know.

citigirl wrote:

<quoted text> Of course no one was allowed to search the computer because it was in the possesion of LE. There was a West Point professor and his wife involved in the search for Maura I believe in the first 2 weeks she disappeared. I and my sister became involved in the search for Maura in March of 04. There was a person from NH as well as A person from Maine as well as Fred. Sorry Whiston you were not there I was so you have no clue as to was there searching.

I take it Whiston thinks with so many skilled and highly trained people in the family, at least one of them would have looked into the computer activities. Just a reminder, Maura's computer went to the UMASS, or MA police first. They then made a copy of her hard drive. THEN it was given to Kathleen who kept it in her closet for months. Police came to get some of these things back after working with the FBI and trying to eliminate any connection to Brianna Maitland who went missing just 90 miles away.
I hope my memorie serves correct on this.

THANK YOU Just me,that was exactly my point.Maura goes missing,family has computer for months but they reportedly did not look at it.There were empty light bulb packages found in the saturn.I would be curious to know who replaced bulbs in the saturn and why .We were told Maura spent a couple of weeks with MrMurray in Shelton C.T. over christmas break and Maura also went to Ohio.I assume she flew but I don't know for sure.Who could have used the saturn when she was gone.I stayed at the Homestead suites in Shelton C.T.a few tears back .Not really much to do there.take care philip

citigirl wrote:

<quoted text> Of course no one was allowed to search the computer because it was in the possesion of LE. There was a West Point professor and his wife involved in the search for Maura I believe in the first 2 weeks she disappeared. I and my sister became involved in the search for Maura in March of 04. There was a person from NH as well as A person from Maine as well as Fred. Sorry Whiston you were not there I was so you have no clue as to was there searching.

Citigirl - the Whitman Hanson article makes reference that two weeks after June 8th LE knocked on Kathleen's door and asked for all of the contents of the car and MM's PC to be returned. The article also states that the PC was given to Kathleen two weeks after she originally went missing. That is over 100 Days to have the PC.

I think James Renner's blog states what is on her hard drive and what she searched.

WTH-the-original wrote:

Now to the second half of this stupidity. Why does the rag matter? If the rag was in the exhaust while she was driving, and somehow was able to keep the rag in the exhaust, it wasn't a problem. If the rag was put in the exhaust after the crash, again, how is it relevant?
There are people on the site who love to throw out red herrings. Some because they like mental masturbation and others because, well, because they just aren't that smart. There is nothing to indicate that the rag, had anything to do with her disappearance. So why are people focusing on it? Mostly it is because there is nothing else to talk about. I mean, lets talk about suspects, oh, there are none. Well lets talk about the crime scene, oh yeah, there isn't one. What about her mental state, until very recently, very little was known about that. What about the crime, her running from the car after drinking, no, don't want to do that. The credit card fraud, nope that couldn't have anything to do with her running says the family. What about that interesting killer in Alaska with ties to the area. We could talk about him but I am guessing the police will likely take care of that little nugget.
Speaking of red herrings, did you hear the one about the trailer hitch, or that the police vehicle was pointed at the crashed car? Some of the people here droned on about those red herrings for months.
Bill

What if MM was heading to VT using the interstate and then her car started to smoke? She then pulled over and put the rag into the exhaust. The car was still smoking a little and she turned off the interstate and took side roads because she didn't want to attract attention to herself. This could change her destination that was originally thought as Bartlett. It could explain why there was a gap in the timeline. Maybe then she stopped for a little bit to fix the smoking car.
This could explain why VT lodging numbers were called. It could explain the map quest directions for VT found in her car.

Lighthouse 101 wrote:

<quoted text>
What if MM was heading to VT using the interstate and then her car started to smoke? She then pulled over and put the rag into the exhaust. The car was still smoking a little and she turned off the interstate and took side roads because she didn't want to attract attention to herself. This could change her destination that was originally thought as Bartlett. It could explain why there was a gap in the timeline. Maybe then she stopped for a little bit to fix the smoking car.
This could explain why VT lodging numbers were called. It could explain the map quest directions for VT found in her car.

It explains nothing as far as I can tell. All those calls and search for directions happened before she left on the trip as far as I know. The rag appears to have absolutely nothing to do with why she did anything related to why she might have gone missing. The car, where found, could have easily been headed to Bartlett, an area her father says she knew well. While it might not have been the best way to get there, it would have been consistent with someone who had gone that way in the summer months.

Bill