Maura Murray

Maruchan wrote:

Oh well, sorry about the duplicate post, this site is really strange when it comes to posting.
All that said, I'm still not sure I believe the Vasi theory. I looked at what UMass lists as their current student parking lots (I doubt they have changed.) There are only two near Melville, the dorm where MM was working, and Kennedy where she lived. Those are lots 11 and 22, both south of the dorms. According to Google maps, using the "walk" feature, it would take 6 minutes to get to the closest lot, Lot 22, and 11 minutes to get to the farther Lot 11. It's .4 miles to the first lot, and that is only to the middle of the lot, and it's .6 miles to the nearest part of Lot 11. There is no way MM would have used metered parking to park "close by," not when she was working a shift at her job, so she had to have parked in the designated lots.
Now you're talking, at best, 12 minutes just to get to and back from her car, and more likely longer than that. That already is a lot of time to be away from her desk. Now add 5 minutes just to her destination and back, now you're looking at 22 minutes just for getting to her car and driving. I just don't buy that she did that and nobody noticed.

Good points, but there is a parking lot right in front of melville dorm meant for security people (If I recall from when i visited)

Doesn't mean she used the lot in front which is real close to the road that would take her one street over and over in the area where vasi was hit, but it is a possibility.

In the cell phone log of maura, she called a coffee shop in amherst during her shift (shortly after her shift started)

Do coffee shops deliver????

I am honestly asking because I don't know amherst that well. the coffee shop was called rao's coffee.

Anyway, also the fact she was on her cell phone from 12:07 a.m. to 12:14 a.m., could also indiciate that she had stepped away from the desk. I know she made other calls, but by rules she wasn't suppose to be making personal calls while working the security desk.

Good points though Maruchan

amy researches wrote:

Orko, did you say you went to Umass?

No I did not got to amherst. I visited the campus in the summer of 2011 to look into the maura murray case. I also visited New hampshire (Maura's wreck site) and some other locations.

Orko Kringer wrote:

<quoted text>
Good points, but there is a parking lot right in front of melville dorm meant for security people (If I recall from when i visited)
Doesn't mean she used the lot in front which is real close to the road that would take her one street over and over in the area where vasi was hit, but it is a possibility.
In the cell phone log of maura, she called a coffee shop in amherst during her shift (shortly after her shift started)
Do coffee shops deliver????
I am honestly asking because I don't know amherst that well. the coffee shop was called rao's coffee.
Anyway, also the fact she was on her cell phone from 12:07 a.m. to 12:14 a.m., could also indiciate that she had stepped away from the desk. I know she made other calls, but by rules she wasn't suppose to be making personal calls while working the security desk.
Good points though Maruchan

I just think that, since everybody said MM hardly drove her car because it was unreliable, that it was probably parked in the regular parking lot.

I looked up Rao's Coffee, their website is only for the coffee itself, not for the shops. The Yelp site doesn't say anything about delivery. The hours are M-Sunday until 10 p.m. I did find several hits that reference "foot delivery" which I have never heard of - it either means they have delivery walkers instead of drivers, or they also serve feet along with their coffee.:)

Maruchan wrote:

... it is feasible that the damage to Maura's car could have been caused by hitting Vasi.

One of the funniest statements yet. So, basically, the only picture you have ever seen of a car that hit a pedestrian. Clipped actually, it appears, not a full on hit. Where the person hit runs away, nothing at all like Vasi's injuries. And you have gathered enough evidence that you feel comfortable making this statement. Really?

Having seen cars that have hit pedestrian with and without life threatening injuries, I feel fairly comfortable in saying it isn't likely at all that damage was from a pedestrian.

Here is an important following sentence, pay attention: Has anyone found any person who saw the damage to the car, BEFORE the accident in Haverhill? Anyone, anyone, Buller, anyone?

So yes, I can thoroughly dismiss the Vasi/Maura connection as much fun as that would be to pursue. That isn't proof that her car didn't do it, but that would be backwards logic. We need to prove that it did hit him, not that it didn't.

Otto, I also find it funny that you think it's an EMT's job to preserve crime scenes. We try not to trample crime scenes, not walk on or in obvious evidence, but our obligation is to the patient first, as is the polices, I might add. I always find it funny when people who have never been at a serious accident tell us how they THINK things are going to happen. I don't know where you got your information that the scene wasn't inspected for evidence. Did the police tell you that, or is it your best guess? I really don't want to turn this into a Vasi forum. You really might consider starting a forum devoted to his process, what did and didn't happen, etc. because it appears to have nothing to do with Maura's case.

Bill

Orko Kringer wrote:

<quoted text>
Vasi was hit by a car, that has all been but established (after the fact of course).
His injuries were consistent with being struck by a car. The friend he was with that night has been very clear that he was not driving vasi around in a car and vasi himself has noted that he was on foot. Not many scenarios left. A coconut did not fall from a tree and do this to him.
As far as maura goes:
She has a breakdown at work (just happens to come 20 minutes or so after vasi was impacted).
She is in a zombie-like state and won't even acknowledge her supervisor, instead staring straight ahead after the supervisor asks what the matter is (yeah just typical college student behavior .... RIGHT)
She is so overcome with emotion that she can't sign herself out of work (more typcial college student behavior)
Her father all of a sudden swoops into town less than 48 hours later to (Help maura get a new car) He probably would've came on friday but Umass was nailed with a big snow storm
Maura's car is kept away from everyone over the weekend.(they only use fred's car, even when supposedly shopping for a car for maura ... You would think they would bring her car along to trade it off if they find her a new car).
Maura bolts the campus the same day the vasi story hits the campus newspaper (nothing to see here) the newspaper article clearly points out that police are looking for clues and asking for the campus'es help.
Maura may not have anything to do with the hit and run, but way too many coincidences to just say nah, not related at all.

The accident scene reported that there was tire marks on the pavement. Meaning the driver saw Vassi then slammed on the brakes. The driver would have known the fate of vassi once they hit him.
- I don't think a phone call is needed to get her to start crying or go into a zombie like trance.
- You mention her father comes into town immediately meaning he probably knows(if it happened). Why would he want to buy her a new car after this happened? Why would he lend her his car after she was involved in a hit and run?
- I would think FM would just take her car and dispose of it immediately. I don't think he would take her to town for dinner.

- Why are the reports on her PC that she searched for VT directions and drinking while pregnant? I would think she would have searched for hit and run information like - the fatality rate, and punishment if caught. I have never read she searched for that.

Her father's actions at UMASS show me more of a father looking to cheer up his daughter, not cover something up.

Orko Kringer wrote:

<quoted text>
Petrit's misfortunes were never treated like a crime took place.
When he finally woke up from his coma over a month later, he noticed that his wallet had been emptied and police even speculated that he could've been jumped and robbed and knocked into a coma that fateful night by a bunch of hooligans.
The fact that the police had no earthly idea what happened to petrit (like you couldn't see pieces of car laying where petrit was found) tells me all I need to know about how amherst police dealt with this situation.
Likely, they had this passed out college kid in the road scooped up and taken to the hospital and it was only after the fact when vasi's injuries became more apparent, that police maybe started to realize that something of a criminal nature took place. And by that point, the crime scene would've already been too disturbed, therefore there will never be a resolution to what happened to vasi.
Also, it wasn't an uncommon occurence for someone to be hit by a car (or for that fact at any university where you have tons of foot traffic and tons of wild drivers), so I don't know how much rumors would be spreading.
But from the perspective of someone who was the person who hit somebody with their car and left the scene ... face it, they wouldn't even begin to know how much damage to the person they did. And when they start to think about it (especially if the victim ended up dying or paralyzed down the road) that may be quite a burden to have to attempt to quietly carry the rest of your life knowing you were responsible.

I agree with you here in many ways. But it did hit the papers the next day that Petrit was in critical condition and was found in x and such place. That coupled with Maura's "odd" behaviour, might have gotten back to police......the timing and so on. Campus, and/or MA state police went to NH also, so who knows if part of that was to check the car over? It sure sounds like it never did though because Petrit also said the police never did anything about this. His mother was even more vocal that this injustice had happened to her son, and police weren't seemingly interested or doing anything.

just me wrote:

<quoted text>
I agree with you here in many ways. But it did hit the papers the next day that Petrit was in critical condition and was found in x and such place. That coupled with Maura's "odd" behaviour, might have gotten back to police......the timing and so on. Campus, and/or MA state police went to NH also, so who knows if part of that was to check the car over? It sure sounds like it never did though because Petrit also said the police never did anything about this. His mother was even more vocal that this injustice had happened to her son, and police weren't seemingly interested or doing anything.

part of my whole point.

Vasi was in a coma for over a month and it wasn't until he came out of his coma that (any sort of investigating took place) and by then it was too late.

As far as what police have found concerning maura and a vasi link. It is possible that they have some information that they have never released to the public to include something they have picked up from maura's computer searches.

If police do suspect a link between maura and the hit and run, do you really think they would let fred in on that. Fred would do everything he could to cover up his daughter's involvement.

Maruchan wrote:

Oh well, sorry about the duplicate post, this site is really strange when it comes to posting.
All that said, I'm still not sure I believe the Vasi theory. I looked at what UMass lists as their current student parking lots (I doubt they have changed.) There are only two near Melville, the dorm where MM was working, and Kennedy where she lived. Those are lots 11 and 22, both south of the dorms. According to Google maps, using the "walk" feature, it would take 6 minutes to get to the closest lot, Lot 22, and 11 minutes to get to the farther Lot 11. It's .4 miles to the first lot, and that is only to the middle of the lot, and it's .6 miles to the nearest part of Lot 11. There is no way MM would have used metered parking to park "close by," not when she was working a shift at her job, so she had to have parked in the designated lots.
Now you're talking, at best, 12 minutes just to get to and back from her car, and more likely longer than that. That already is a lot of time to be away from her desk. Now add 5 minutes just to her destination and back, now you're looking at 22 minutes just for getting to her car and driving. I just don't buy that she did that and nobody noticed.

I think your missing something here. There is a parking lot directly in front of that dorm that she could have parked in. She was working the late shift and you are basically allowed to park in any lot on campus after 6 because that's when they stop giving tickets. Same with the metered spots, you can park there after 6. Basically at umass you can park anywhere after 6 as long as you don't park overnight.
If she drove to work, and that's a pretty big if, she would have parked much closer than the lots you describe.
Again, this proves absolutely nothing. Just because she could have parked close does not mean she hit him, it just means its possible.

After living in Amherst for 2 years with a umass student I was shocked to see how wrong the media and the family were when referring to this

Jenkins wrote:

<quoted text>
I think your missing something here. There is a parking lot directly in front of that dorm that she could have parked in. She was working the late shift and you are basically allowed to park in any lot on campus after 6 because that's when they stop giving tickets. Same with the metered spots, you can park there after 6. Basically at umass you can park anywhere after 6 as long as you don't park overnight.
If she drove to work, and that's a pretty big if, she would have parked much closer than the lots you describe.
Again, this proves absolutely nothing. Just because she could have parked close does not mean she hit him, it just means its possible.
After living in Amherst for 2 years with a umass student I was shocked to see how wrong the media and the family were when referring to this

You said: "as long as you don't park overnight." So that means that, if she did park close to Melville, she would have had to move her car to her permitted lot at the end of her shift. Melville, where she worked, and Kennedy, where she lived, are very close to each other, a two-minute walk. A quick look online shows that her shift ended at 2:00 a.m. She didn't know that she would be leaving early that shift, so she knew that she had to move her car after her shift ended. That means she would have had to walk out of Melville to her car, drive to Lots 11 or 22 to leave her car overnight and then walk all the way back essentially to where she started to get home, about a mile roundtrip, in the middle of the night. She can't have done that as her supervisor walked her back to her dorm - unless she then left her dorm, walked back to the parking lot, drove her car to Lots 11 or 22, etc. It makes no sense.

Jenkins wrote:

<quoted text>
I think your missing something here. There is a parking lot directly in front of that dorm that she could have parked in. She was working the late shift and you are basically allowed to park in any lot on campus after 6 because that's when they stop giving tickets. Same with the metered spots, you can park there after 6. Basically at umass you can park anywhere after 6 as long as you don't park overnight.
If she drove to work, and that's a pretty big if, she would have parked much closer than the lots you describe.
Again, this proves absolutely nothing. Just because she could have parked close does not mean she hit him, it just means its possible.
After living in Amherst for 2 years with a umass student I was shocked to see how wrong the media and the family were when referring to this

Now maura did live right next door to where she worked, however, if she knew ahead of time that she would be taking a break and going for some food or coffee at some point during her shift, it would make sense for her to park her car in the front lot, so she wouldn't have to do all tha walking.

Plus maura could've came from somewhere else when she began her security desk shift and may have not come from her living dorm.

What I find funniest is that instead of trying to logically prove whether there is any evidence that Maura hit Vasi, some will just jump to all the ramifications like she did hit him.

I'll ask this simple question once more, because it kind of has bearing on this whole fantasy.

Has anyone found any person who saw the damage to the car, BEFORE the accident in Haverhill?

I'm sure people pushing this connection will ignore this simple question (because it doesn't fit in with their agenda) so I'll sit back and watch everyone scurry around like they did with the trailer hitch, the police car pointed at the crashed car and the rag in the muffler.

Bill

Orko Kringer wrote:

<quoted text>
Good points, but there is a parking lot right in front of melville dorm meant for security people (If I recall from when i visited)
Doesn't mean she used the lot in front which is real close to the road that would take her one street over and over in the area where vasi was hit, but it is a possibility.
In the cell phone log of maura, she called a coffee shop in amherst during her shift (shortly after her shift started)
Do coffee shops deliver????
I am honestly asking because I don't know amherst that well. the coffee shop was called rao's coffee.
Anyway, also the fact she was on her cell phone from 12:07 a.m. to 12:14 a.m., could also indiciate that she had stepped away from the desk. I know she made other calls, but by rules she wasn't suppose to be making personal calls while working the security desk.
Good points though Maruchan

This is kind of interesting. How do you know she called Rao's Coffee? Another person said they knew Maura from her entering their coffee shop often - I wonder if this is the one. I also wonder - if she was calling to possibly see if they were still open, if she had a friend working there, or if she could place a pick up order.

Interesting as well because I put in directions from Melville dorm to Rao's coffee in Google Maps - and the route it gave me took me exactly through the intersection of Triangle and Matoon - where Vasi was hit.

I don't dismiss the Petrit Vasi theory. I think it makes a lot of sense. Very coincidental that Maura was catatonic, had to replace a light, and was looking for cars the very same weekend.

Also - as far as a break from her working - in Massachusetts after working a set number of hours (6 hours) it's legally required to give workers a break. I believe workers legally get about 30 minutes. Maura's shift was long enough - since she was working until at least 2am - based on the supervisor letting her out early around 1am) and I think started at 8. So, she should have had a 30 minute break to leave - and maybe she did so around midnight.

PurrSeven7 wrote:

<quoted text>
This is kind of interesting. How do you know she called Rao's Coffee? Another person said they knew Maura from her entering their coffee shop often - I wonder if this is the one. I also wonder - if she was calling to possibly see if they were still open, if she had a friend working there, or if she could place a pick up order.
Interesting as well because I put in directions from Melville dorm to Rao's coffee in Google Maps - and the route it gave me took me exactly through the intersection of Triangle and Matoon - where Vasi was hit.
I don't dismiss the Petrit Vasi theory. I think it makes a lot of sense. Very coincidental that Maura was catatonic, had to replace a light, and was looking for cars the very same weekend.
Also - as far as a break from her working - in Massachusetts after working a set number of hours (6 hours) it's legally required to give workers a break. I believe workers legally get about 30 minutes. Maura's shift was long enough - since she was working until at least 2am - based on the supervisor letting her out early around 1am) and I think started at 8. So, she should have had a 30 minute break to leave - and maybe she did so around midnight.

Great points.

Her shift according to her supervisor was from 7 p.m. to 2 a.m.(Thursday night was considered the start of the longer weekend shifts that security desk workers worked)

I have never been to Rao's coffeee, but from what I gather they have some sort of coffee distribution plant in the town over (hadley) and in amherst they have a cafe which is supposed to be very popular with the students.

I wonder if they deliver.

Maura called them at around 8:40 p.m. which would've clearly been during her desk shift. Her phone call lasted just three minutes, Most likely, she was placing some kind of order.

Great points about maura having a fresh package in her car from having to replace a light.

WTH-the-original wrote:

What I find funniest is that instead of trying to logically prove whether there is any evidence that Maura hit Vasi, some will just jump to all the ramifications like she did hit him.
I'll ask this simple question once more, because it kind of has bearing on this whole fantasy.
Has anyone found any person who saw the damage to the car, BEFORE the accident in Haverhill?
I'm sure people pushing this connection will ignore this simple question (because it doesn't fit in with their agenda) so I'll sit back and watch everyone scurry around like they did with the trailer hitch, the police car pointed at the crashed car and the rag in the muffler.
Bill

No one has come forward as seeing any damage, however, maura wasn't anywhere near her car for the whole weekend.

Her father came up and they did all of their getting to places in his car.

Even when they went car shopping, they took his car.(You would think you would take the car you are looking to get rid of, in case the opportunity arises to trade it in).

Fred is the one who introduced the whole story about maura being afraid to drive her car. That is not a proven fact, but does make for a good alibi for her not having her car that weekend.

I wouldn't be surprised if her car was "Lying low" that weekend and out of sight.

Might also help to explain why fred would've left his car with maura even despite the fact he was dropping them off back at their dorms that Saturday night (they needed no car that night)... despite himself staying at a hotel seven miles away (he would need his car).

Bill I find your comments about the damage to her car to be interesting. Haven't you seen many accidents while being an emt? Doesn't every accident generally look different
What I find interesting is that in my life I've only known one person who ever hit a pedestrian. Back in '99 a friend hit someone who was trying to beat the light and wasn't seen due to the extreme sun glare.
To be honest this was the only damage I've ever seen that actually is very similar tithe damage originally seen on the Saturn; there was a clear as day sharp dent on his hood, almost identical to the dent seen on Maura's good above her bumper. A sharp dent like that that also had absolutely no evidence of metal on metal contact. No evidence of contact with any hard material for that matter, such as wood.
I know you agree that there's no evidence of metal on metal contact, I've seen you write that many times. I also see no evidence of any hard object that caused that dent. You would think that if it was the branch of a tree you would see some sort of evidence for such. I've seen more than a couple tree limbs/limb stumps cause dents in cars and there was always some sort of damage that indicated a hard object caused the dent, never such a clean dent.
What actually caused that dent in Maura's car is still a mystery, the only thing we know is that it was something higher up off the ground and definitely not a snowbank. Btw it was the pedestrians hips that caused the dent on my friends car.
Bill I'm just wondering in your experience what do you think that damage is more consistent with?
I guess I should stress again that even if te damage is consistent it still proves absolutely nothing in relation to the vasi hit; which I believe is basically impossible to link to Maura at this point, even if she was responsible.

Maruchan wrote:

Oh well, sorry about the duplicate post, this site is really strange when it comes to posting.
All that said, I'm still not sure I believe the Vasi theory. I looked at what UMass lists as their current student parking lots (I doubt they have changed.) There are only two near Melville, the dorm where MM was working, and Kennedy where she lived. Those are lots 11 and 22, both south of the dorms. According to Google maps, using the "walk" feature, it would take 6 minutes to get to the closest lot, Lot 22, and 11 minutes to get to the farther Lot 11. It's .4 miles to the first lot, and that is only to the middle of the lot, and it's .6 miles to the nearest part of Lot 11. There is no way MM would have used metered parking to park "close by," not when she was working a shift at her job, so she had to have parked in the designated lots.
Now you're talking, at best, 12 minutes just to get to and back from her car, and more likely longer than that. That already is a lot of time to be away from her desk. Now add 5 minutes just to her destination and back, now you're looking at 22 minutes just for getting to her car and driving. I just don't buy that she did that and nobody noticed.

Maruchan,
That may all be true, but as I´ve been saying repeatedly over time, Maura might easily have lent her car to a friend of hers in Amherst, who may well have hit Mr Vasi with Maura´s Saturn.

Jenkins wrote:

Bill I find your comments about the damage to her car to be interesting. Haven't you seen many accidents while being an emt? Doesn't every accident generally look different
What I find interesting is that in my life I've only known one person who ever hit a pedestrian. Back in '99 a friend hit someone who was trying to beat the light and wasn't seen due to the extreme sun glare.
To be honest this was the only damage I've ever seen that actually is very similar tithe damage originally seen on the Saturn; there was a clear as day sharp dent on his hood, almost identical to the dent seen on Maura's good above her bumper. A sharp dent like that that also had absolutely no evidence of metal on metal contact. No evidence of contact with any hard material for that matter, such as wood.
I know you agree that there's no evidence of metal on metal contact, I've seen you write that many times. I also see no evidence of any hard object that caused that dent. You would think that if it was the branch of a tree you would see some sort of evidence for such. I've seen more than a couple tree limbs/limb stumps cause dents in cars and there was always some sort of damage that indicated a hard object caused the dent, never such a clean dent.
What actually caused that dent in Maura's car is still a mystery, the only thing we know is that it was something higher up off the ground and definitely not a snowbank. Btw it was the pedestrians hips that caused the dent on my friends car.
Bill I'm just wondering in your experience what do you think that damage is more consistent with?
I guess I should stress again that even if te damage is consistent it still proves absolutely nothing in relation to the vasi hit; which I believe is basically impossible to link to Maura at this point, even if she was responsible.

I have said in the past that the damage to me appears consistent with hitting around a 10 inch diameter (give or take) vertical object like a tree. What confuses some people is the folding of the hood. That type of folding is not uncommon with a point force.

What would be interesting, from a forensic standpoint, is the injuries to Vasi. The heights of the injuries, types, etc.

Bill

I'm digging over old news reports.

Petrit Vasi suffered a serious head injury and spent a month in a comatose-like state.(He could hear others talking to him and he could respond in fragmented sentences, but he never opened his eyes the entire first month he was in the hospital.

After the first month, Vasi completely woke up but thought he was around 27 years old (he thought he had been in a coma for years).

He was confined to a wheel chair for the first week after he came too.

He graduated to a walker, then cane and after seven months total from the night of the hit and run, he began walking by himself, but never has fully gained back his coordination.

All of his injuries were inflicted on the right side of his body ONLY.

maybe this is too out there...(i've had 2 glasses of wine)... but going on the train of thought that the saturn might have been 'laying low', could it have been parked temporarily at the hotel/motel Fred was staying at ? that might be a far fetched - but plausible - explanation of why she would have driven his car back there (though still weird at 3 or 4am), maybe they were going to drive the saturn and Fred's car in the morning straight to the dealership?

Okay Mr. shoes on backwards you fast no slow pitch for you. Why Tammy change her name?