Maura Murray

coeur de lion wrote:

<quoted text>???

I have given you two references -- James renner and maribeth conway

Albeit, after going back and looking at the southshore express articles, it is possible I mis-interpretated Maribeth when she said that she didn't believe maura was involved because the hit and run took place "downtown."

I have read elsewhere where the vasi hit and run suppossedly happened in a very remote area of amherst and that it was hard to pinpoint a time for how long he was laying the road because it could've been several minutes to hours before a passing car would come by.

But I haven't been able to re-find that article. And it may not have come from a news article that I saw it.

Unfortunately when I was in amherst in the summer of 2011, I believed that the hit and run took place miles away from where maura worked. It was only when I stumbled onto the intersection (as I left her dorm she did security at) and was headed to the amherst brew pub that I then realized that I was flat wrong about the vasi hit and run location.

other note of interest that i have come across and what I am to believe are FACTS.

The rag in the tailpipe was LEAKED to the public, the police investigators ABSOLUTELY did not want that tidbit known.

And it wasn't a family member that leaked it (as they were informed about the rag very early) but rather it is believed to be one of the accident scene responders (around 9 total people responded to maura's accident scene in NH).

CORRECTION:

Technically a total of 13 people responded to maura's accident scene in New Hampshire that fateful night.

2 responders from Woodsville Ambulance

8 total firemen
6 male firemen
2 female firemen

2 cops

1 Tow truck driver

And that is not counting the SBD and the other neighbors who had called 911 that night that did come out of their house and helped police with their search that night.

A lot of folks were out there that very first night.

Orko Kringer wrote:

<quoted text>
I have given you two references -- James renner and maribeth conway
Albeit, after going back and looking at the southshore express articles, it is possible I mis-interpretated Maribeth when she said that she didn't believe maura was involved because the hit and run took place "downtown."
I have read elsewhere where the vasi hit and run suppossedly happened in a very remote area of amherst and that it was hard to pinpoint a time for how long he was laying the road because it could've been several minutes to hours before a passing car would come by.
But I haven't been able to re-find that article. And it may not have come from a news article that I saw it.
Unfortunately when I was in amherst in the summer of 2011, I believed that the hit and run took place miles away from where maura worked. It was only when I stumbled onto the intersection (as I left her dorm she did security at) and was headed to the amherst brew pub that I then realized that I was flat wrong about the vasi hit and run location.

Thanks. I appreciate that.

Both Renner and Conway are, however, reporters/writers. From what source did they themselves get the story about how MM could not have hit Vasi because MM couldn't have been absent from her post at Melville long enough to drive to a location near where Vasi was found and back again without getting discovered? Where did this story originate BEFORE Renner and Conway reported it? In a previous post, you kept saying the supervisor said such-and-such, or "according to the supervisor." Are you saying that MM's boss claimed that MM could not have hit Vasi because he was too far away?

Did MM's boss ever post something on the old MMM forum to the effect that MM could not have hit Vasi because MM didn't have time to leave Melville, get in her car, hit Vasi, and then get back to her post without being noticed absent by her boss? Which you dispute because you claim it is very inaccurate?

coeur de lion wrote:

<quoted text>
Thanks. I appreciate that.
Both Renner and Conway are, however, reporters/writers. From what source did they themselves get the story about how MM could not have hit Vasi because MM couldn't have been absent from her post at Melville long enough to drive to a location near where Vasi was found and back again without getting discovered? Where did this story originate BEFORE Renner and Conway reported it? In a previous post, you kept saying the supervisor said such-and-such, or "according to the supervisor." Are you saying that MM's boss claimed that MM could not have hit Vasi because he was too far away?
Did MM's boss ever post something on the old MMM forum to the effect that MM could not have hit Vasi because MM didn't have time to leave Melville, get in her car, hit Vasi, and then get back to her post without being noticed absent by her boss? Which you dispute because you claim it is very inaccurate?

No the supervisor has never mentioned the name vasi or talked about the hit and run publically to anyone.(she has never been asked about a possible link).

And Renner and Maribeth have both concluded (their opinions) that maura-vasi link likely didn't take place because of distance and the fact maura was on shift.

I personally have proven the distance to where maura worked and where the hit and run took place is in very close proximity and I have also proven (by going over the amherst dorm monitor policies) that dorm monitors do get breaks in their shifts and breaks to the point where they are replaced for said breaks.

I also have a printed copy of maura's cell phone records from that night she was working at melville dorm.

Orko Kringer wrote:

<quoted text>
No the supervisor has never mentioned the name vasi or talked about the hit and run publically to anyone.(she has never been asked about a possible link).
And Renner and Maribeth have both concluded (their opinions) that maura-vasi link likely didn't take place because of distance and the fact maura was on shift.
I personally have proven the distance to where maura worked and where the hit and run took place is in very close proximity and I have also proven (by going over the amherst dorm monitor policies) that dorm monitors do get breaks in their shifts and breaks to the point where they are replaced for said breaks.
I also have a printed copy of maura's cell phone records from that night she was working at melville dorm.

Thanks for clarifying this. Not trying to belabor the point, just trying to get a clearer understanding of the whole thing. I greatly appreciate your help.

You say that Conway, followed by Renner, concluded, in their own separate opinions, that it was very unlikely that any link existed between Vasi's injury and MM. In other words, Conway and Renner conclude, in their individual opinions, that MM could not have hit Vasi with her, MM's, car because there wasn't enough time for MM to leave her post, drive that far, and return to her post without being discovered absent? Is that correct? Too far a distance and not enough time? Have both Conway and Renner had an opportunity to see for themselves, in Amherst, the distance between Melville and where Vasi was found?

Using landmarks (e.g., addresses, buildings, topography, etc.) instead of street-name intersections, where was Vasi found? For example, was he found in front of 12345 X Street?

Why did Conway feel it necessary to form an opinion on the subject in the first place? Why did Conway think she should address a possible link between MM and Vasi? Renner presumably followed Conway's lead and likewise raised the same issue and then dismissed it for the same reason?

You also say that Conway and Renner "have both concluded (their opinions) that maura-vasi link likely didn't take place because of distance and the fact maura was on shift." How did Conway and Renner know MM was "on shift?" What does "on shift" mean? Does "on shift" mean that MM was working at Melville that night? Could MM have been "on shift," but also on a break?

Thank you very much for your patience and help.

Hopefully this link below will do.

By most all reports, it is said that vasi was found laying by the side of the road in snow. Only one report I came across has him laying in the middle of the road.

Once again we are talking about the intersection of Triangle and Mattoon. Maura likely would've left melville dorm onto Massachusetts ave and hung a right onto N. Pleasant (which quickly turns into Triangle and then intersects with Mattoon).

A slew of the downtown (restaurants, bars etc ..) are in the vincinity of where vasi was hit.

I can't speak for either Maribeth or James. I think in Maribeth's case, the vasi hit and run link was done as sort of a follow-up to her award winning series on the case and I think she was spelling out the facts surrounding the vasi incident, but (in epilogue style) was also giving her insight in to why she didn't think it was related to maura.

James IMO was going off of news reports to come with his conclusion.

https://maps.google.com/maps...

Orko Kringer wrote:

other note of interest that i have come across and what I am to believe are FACTS.
The rag in the tailpipe was LEAKED to the public, the police investigators ABSOLUTELY did not want that tidbit known.
And it wasn't a family member that leaked it (as they were informed about the rag very early) but rather it is believed to be one of the accident scene responders (around 9 total people responded to maura's accident scene in NH).

How exactly did you come across these so called facts? Did le tell you they didn't want it known?
Wouldn't that mean that they think the rag had a more sinister use than Maura just putting it in her muffler like an idiot?

Wasn't the tidbit about the rag first talked about when they put out the Bolo to the west of the crash site the following day? I always though that was how the public knew about it

coeur de lion wrote:

Orko, would it really matter if MM's car was seen close up in Massachusetts between the time Vasi was found and before the car was found in New Hampshire a few days later?

This would also be interesting information to know for reasons unrelated to the Vasi theory. The NHLI had concluded that the damage to Maura's car likely did not happen at the WB accident scene. Thus their theory that the accident was staged, which I personally have a hard time believing. I had wondered if there was any previous accident with the Saturn, causing damage prior to her NH trip, that might have been unaccounted for by the NHLI's investigation.

Jenkins wrote:

<quoted text>
How exactly did you come across these so called facts? Did le tell you they didn't want it known?
Wouldn't that mean that they think the rag had a more sinister use than Maura just putting it in her muffler like an idiot?
Wasn't the tidbit about the rag first talked about when they put out the Bolo to the west of the crash site the following day? I always though that was how the public knew about it

As I understand, the first public mention of the rag came on a board such as this (although it wasn't topix). Once out, police decided to no longer hide it and stories began mentioning it and talking about it.

I was searching for info and found this in a Websleuths thread dated 1/8/06 by poster "hydemi":

"Yes it has elsewhere been stated that a fellow student was able to verify that Maura was at her campus security job during the time of the hit and run accident near the UMA campus at midnight Thursday (I was one of those who questioned this coincidence of timing)."

I have so far not found any other info related to this statement. Anybody know anything about it?

Link to the page: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/archive/inde... The quoted text is a little more than halfway down the page.

Orko Kringer wrote:

other note of interest that i have come across and what I am to believe are FACTS.
The rag in the tailpipe was LEAKED to the public, the police investigators ABSOLUTELY did not want that tidbit known.
And it wasn't a family member that leaked it (as they were informed about the rag very early) but rather it is believed to be one of the accident scene responders (around 9 total people responded to maura's accident scene in NH).

Orko, you didn't answer Jenkins' question - where is this information to be found? What do you mean, "what I am to believe are FACTS?" Please explain this and where you obtained this information.

Thanks.

amy researches wrote:

<quoted text>
Very interesting. Thanks for posting this. A bit above the post you quoted is another from murraydwyer (a relative, I assume?):
" Quite a while ago, there was specualtion that Maura might have been involved in an alleged hit and run in Amherst a few days before she left.......it took family and friends quite a bit of time to make contact with a person who was with Maura at the time of this incident and to determine that it was not possible for Maura to have been involved. The reality is that it gave some hope that perhaps if she had been involved she might have run away. Think of how sad that is that that would become a hopeful situation."

That is an extremely vague explanation that I don't buy for one second.

Maruchan wrote:

<quoted text>
Orko, you didn't answer Jenkins' question - where is this information to be found? What do you mean, "what I am to believe are FACTS?" Please explain this and where you obtained this information.
Thanks.

This came from the board moderator where this information was first posted.

They attempted to erase everytime someone would post something about a rag, but a post slipped through and once out, then it became public knowledge.(I Believe this info to be accurate and factual).

amy researches wrote:

<quoted text>
Very interesting. Thanks for posting this. A bit above the post you quoted is another from murraydwyer (a relative, I assume?):
" Quite a while ago, there was specualtion that Maura might have been involved in an alleged hit and run in Amherst a few days before she left.......it took family and friends quite a bit of time to make contact with a person who was with Maura at the time of this incident and to determine that it was not possible for Maura to have been involved. The reality is that it gave some hope that perhaps if she had been involved she might have run away. Think of how sad that is that that would become a hopeful situation."

Very interesting. This is the first I hear of another person being with Maura at the time of the Vasi incident. It is especially interesting since it is not known exactly when that incident took place. There is reportedly a possible 20 min window inbetween Vasi being hit and found. It gets even more interesting in light of Maura being on her phone for 7 of those minutes, which was not publicly known at the time Helena´s post was made (murraydwyer is Maura´s aunt Helena).

Thanks, Amy, for that quote, I didn't read the whole page. I was actually searching for "cell phone" at the time and only read the pertinent hits and saw that quote. Interesting.

Orko, I think my questions to you came off as rude, I didn't mean to be. Thanks for explaining.

Maruchan wrote:

Thanks, Amy, for that quote, I didn't read the whole page. I was actually searching for "cell phone" at the time and only read the pertinent hits and saw that quote. Interesting.
Orko, I think my questions to you came off as rude, I didn't mean to be. Thanks for explaining.

No problem at all.

I am making a sincere effort to only post accurate information and not just go off of memory.

I had to spend many hours last night comparing notes and going over old stuff I had collected and I can now say that I have re-learned a lot.

Orko Kringer wrote:

<quoted text>
This came from the board moderator where this information was first posted.
They attempted to erase everytime someone would post something about a rag, but a post slipped through and once out, then it became public knowledge.(I Believe this info to be accurate and factual).

Where did you get that info from? The board moderator? Of what board?
I was on the original MM site before it became MMM, i was under the impression that the rag was always common knowledge back then.
It was mentioned in the bolo that was sent out to the west of Haverhill, I can't think of one good reason to only send it out to the west. The rag was mentioned in that bolo and people were discussing that right from the start, as far as I know.

Where did you get te info that le was looking to keep that fact private?
If that's true wouldn't that mean that le clearly thought the rag had a more sinister use than just Maura putting it in her tailpipe like an idiot?
In missing persons cases/murder investigations le generally try to keep info out of the public that would only be known to a perp. If what your saying is true would that not apply here?

I think it's pretty obvious that le believes maira was murdered; if what your saying about the rag is true that only strengthens that theory, IMO. Do you not agree with that statement?

Hey couer de lion, do you know of someone who saw her car between Thursday and te crash on Monday? It sounds like you do
That would be hugely important towards proving or disproving the vasi hit and run link.

If just one person who saw it could state that there wa no damage, then the vasi link could be shown to have no merit.

In reality it makes absolutely no sense that she would wait until Monday to leave if she was concerned about being caught for the hit and run.
If she was trying to avoid possible prosecution why didn't she just leave on Friday? Why would she be sitting around town with her dad, partying and going out to dinner, etc? That really makes no logical sense.

It's crazy that the Amherst and umass le never even investigated the vasi hit and run, that's pretty bad. So someone is a victim of a hit and run in Amherst and nobody ever even does an investigation?? How is that possible?

I don't see how anybody can think that when maura left umass she was planning on going out into the woods in nh at all.
Orko states that he believes she was planning on spending the night near a hiking trail and then going into the woods to committ suicide.

I believe this theory makes no sense based on what she brought with her to nh. She had no winter clothes, no winter shoes, nothing that would indicate any sort of intent on entering the woods.
Maura hiked the white mts in summer, not winter. She clearly thought the mts were challenging in the summer time, which would mean that she would think they'd be extremely difficult in winter. I've read somewhere that she went snowshoeing a few times with her dad. I've never read one report of her actually hiking any mt in the winter time.
When she went missing she was wearing jeans and flats.
If she was planning on hiking a mt to kill herself then why wouldn't she have brought boots and some sort of winter clothing. Nothing she had with her would have been appropriate for climbing a mt in the winter.

Even in Fred's extremely strange and morbid comment about climbing to the top of a mt to drink himself to death he talks about being on top of a mt. If she was planning on killing herself in the mts wouldn't that be her goal?? To make it to the top of a mt? The whole killing yourself on top of a mt thing would theoretically be predicated on making it to the top of said mt. Who wants to kill themselves in the middle of the woods a quarter of the way up a mt, that makes no sense.
So we have someOne who thinks that climbing these mts in the summer is difficult, now she thinks that she can just climb to the top of a mt in winter wearing jeans and flat shoes? Does that make zero sense to anybody else?

I can't be sure exactly what she had planned for her trip to nh but in my mind one thing is clear, she had absolutely no plan for climbing any mts or even entering the woods at all.

If you think about it it really looks like she was planning on spending a few days in nh in a hotel or condo partying and drinking. It also looks to me like she was planning on meeting someone up there. She had $280 on her and was searching for condos. You can't even stay one might in a condo for 280, so who was gonna pay for this condo? I still think that she was planning on meeting someone up there or someone was traveling with her. I would bet that he said "you bring the drinks, I'll pay for the hotel"; that sort of thing.

Just by looking at what she brought with her for this trip I can't see how anybody can look at that and think she was planning on entering the woods in any way. She brought two different kind of drinks and absolutely no winter gear, not even boots. It really makes no sense to say she was planning on hiking at all.