Maura Murray

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Jenkins wrote:

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Where did you get that info from? The board moderator? Of what board?
I was on the original MM site before it became MMM, i was under the impression that the rag was always common knowledge back then.
It was mentioned in the bolo that was sent out to the west of Haverhill, I can't think of one good reason to only send it out to the west. The rag was mentioned in that bolo and people were discussing that right from the start, as far as I know.
Where did you get te info that le was looking to keep that fact private?
If that's true wouldn't that mean that le clearly thought the rag had a more sinister use than just Maura putting it in her tailpipe like an idiot?
In missing persons cases/murder investigations le generally try to keep info out of the public that would only be known to a perp. If what your saying is true would that not apply here?
I think it's pretty obvious that le believes maira was murdered; if what your saying about the rag is true that only strengthens that theory, IMO. Do you not agree with that statement?

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Jenkins wrote:

I don't see how anybody can think that when maura left umass she was planning on going out into the woods in nh at all.
Orko states that he believes she was planning on spending the night near a hiking trail and then going into the woods to committ suicide.
I believe this theory makes no sense based on what she brought with her to nh. She had no winter clothes, no winter shoes, nothing that would indicate any sort of intent on entering the woods.
Maura hiked the white mts in summer, not winter. She clearly thought the mts were challenging in the summer time, which would mean that she would think they'd be extremely difficult in winter. I've read somewhere that she went snowshoeing a few times with her dad. I've never read one report of her actually hiking any mt in the winter time.
When she went missing she was wearing jeans and flats.
If she was planning on hiking a mt to kill herself then why wouldn't she have brought boots and some sort of winter clothing. Nothing she had with her would have been appropriate for climbing a mt in the winter.
Even in Fred's extremely strange and morbid comment about climbing to the top of a mt to drink himself to death he talks about being on top of a mt. If she was planning on killing herself in the mts wouldn't that be her goal?? To make it to the top of a mt? The whole killing yourself on top of a mt thing would theoretically be predicated on making it to the top of said mt. Who wants to kill themselves in the middle of the woods a quarter of the way up a mt, that makes no sense.
So we have someOne who thinks that climbing these mts in the summer is difficult, now she thinks that she can just climb to the top of a mt in winter wearing jeans and flat shoes? Does that make zero sense to anybody else?
I can't be sure exactly what she had planned for her trip to nh but in my mind one thing is clear, she had absolutely no plan for climbing any mts or even entering the woods at all.
If you think about it it really looks like she was planning on spending a few days in nh in a hotel or condo partying and drinking. It also looks to me like she was planning on meeting someone up there. She had $280 on her and was searching for condos. You can't even stay one might in a condo for 280, so who was gonna pay for this condo? I still think that she was planning on meeting someone up there or someone was traveling with her. I would bet that he said "you bring the drinks, I'll pay for the hotel"; that sort of thing.
Just by looking at what she brought with her for this trip I can't see how anybody can look at that and think she was planning on entering the woods in any way. She brought two different kind of drinks and absolutely no winter gear, not even boots. It really makes no sense to say she was planning on hiking at all.

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Orko Kringer wrote:

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The board moderator was linked to the family and I do trust the link to be a factual one.
Just by going over articles, notes and quotes, I can come to the conclusion that the rag held significance to the LE to support the theory of suicide moreso than some kind of abduction attempt or sinister foul play plot.

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Jenkins wrote:

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I don't see how you can reach that conclusion about the rag.
First of all you can't kill yourself by putting a rag in your tailpipe, that's just impossible. I don't see how a rag in a muffler could have anything to do with suicide, unless you think the person is a complete idiot.
Second; if LE believed the rag supported the suicide theory then why try to keep it a secret? That makes no sense. If they thought the rag indicated suicide then there would be absolutely no reason to keep it out of the public. What could possibly be the reason to keep it secret if they thought it indicated suicide?
The only reason le needs to keep things a secret is if they believe a crime occurred and they want to keep things that would only be known to a perp secret.
Can you please explain how you reached that conclusion?
If it is true they wanted to keep the rag private, which I believe is true, how does that it support the theory that they are thinking foul play?
If they thought the rag had some sort of sinister purpose then it makes perfect sense for them to want it kept out of the public eye.
If they thought it indicated suicide then there is
Absolutely no reason I can see for them to want it kept private.
If they actually think she killed herself then wouldn't it be way easier for them to just come out and say that? Tell the public their conclusion and their reasons for reaching this conclusion. Instead they're investigating a murder and telling the public that they are doing so.
IMO its obvious that LE believes she was abducted and murdered. Them wanting the rag to b kep secret only strengthens that. I can see absolutely no reason for the rag to be kept private if they thought it indicated suicide

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Jenkins wrote:

I don't see how anybody can think that when maura left umass she was planning on going out into the woods in nh at all.
Orko states that he believes she was planning on spending the night near a hiking trail and then going into the woods to committ suicide.
I believe this theory makes no sense based on what she brought with her to nh. She had no winter clothes, no winter shoes, nothing that would indicate any sort of intent on entering the woods.
Maura hiked the white mts in summer, not winter. She clearly thought the mts were challenging in the summer time, which would mean that she would think they'd be extremely difficult in winter. I've read somewhere that she went snowshoeing a few times with her dad. I've never read one report of her actually hiking any mt in the winter time.
When she went missing she was wearing jeans and flats.
If she was planning on hiking a mt to kill herself then why wouldn't she have brought boots and some sort of winter clothing. Nothing she had with her would have been appropriate for climbing a mt in the winter.
Even in Fred's extremely strange and morbid comment about climbing to the top of a mt to drink himself to death he talks about being on top of a mt. If she was planning on killing herself in the mts wouldn't that be her goal?? To make it to the top of a mt? The whole killing yourself on top of a mt thing would theoretically be predicated on making it to the top of said mt. Who wants to kill themselves in the middle of the woods a quarter of the way up a mt, that makes no sense.
So we have someOne who thinks that climbing these mts in the summer is difficult, now she thinks that she can just climb to the top of a mt in winter wearing jeans and flat shoes? Does that make zero sense to anybody else?
I can't be sure exactly what she had planned for her trip to nh but in my mind one thing is clear, she had absolutely no plan for climbing any mts or even entering the woods at all.
If you think about it it really looks like she was planning on spending a few days in nh in a hotel or condo partying and drinking. It also looks to me like she was planning on meeting someone up there. She had $280 on her and was searching for condos. You can't even stay one might in a condo for 280, so who was gonna pay for this condo? I still think that she was planning on meeting someone up there or someone was traveling with her. I would bet that he said "you bring the drinks, I'll pay for the hotel"; that sort of thing.
Just by looking at what she brought with her for this trip I can't see how anybody can look at that and think she was planning on entering the woods in any way. She brought two different kind of drinks and absolutely no winter gear, not even boots. It really makes no sense to say she was planning on hiking at all.

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Orko Kringer wrote:

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Because your a good sport, I will try and locate some quotes where the LE refer to the rag as a possible means that she tooke her own life. It is out there and I am not just making it up.
On the clothes maura brought with her, keep in mind that there were no casual (go on the town clothes). It was all running gear (sweats) and underclothing.(and not a whole week's worth either).

Jenkins wrote:

Ok she was wearing tennis shoes, certainly.

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Jenkins wrote:

Hey couer de lion, do you know of someone who saw her car between Thursday and te crash on Monday? It sounds like you do.

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amy researches wrote:

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This would also be interesting information to know for reasons unrelated to the Vasi theory. The NHLI had concluded that the damage to Maura's car likely did not happen at the WB accident scene. Thus their theory that the accident was staged, which I personally have a hard time believing. I had wondered if there was any previous accident with the Saturn, causing damage prior to her NH trip, that might have been unaccounted for by the NHLI's investigation.

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coeur de lion wrote:

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Why would damage to the car seen in Amherst over the weekend mean anything? Couldn't the damage have happened days or weeks earlier? Even if Maura's car somehow contributed to the Vasi injury, does it mean MM was driving it?

Orko Kringer wrote:

If you couldn't open the above link I posted which shows Maura's shoes, phone and backpack then you can go to www.flickr.com and for search type in maura murray and when photos come up look for name scoops22
click on a photo by scoops 22(me) and you can see the missing poster flyer of maura that has her items she left the accident scene with and have never been found.
You can also see some of the photos i took when i visited amherst and NH about the case.
I haven't updated a thing in months. so some of the photos are now irrelevant like of the horse cemetery I went to to shoot photos of (thought a skeleton they found there could end up being maura but turned out not so much).

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amy researches wrote:

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I don't think damage would prove a Vasi connection. My thought is unrelated to Vasi. If someone saw damage to the car prior to the NH accident, it would explain why NH private investigators came to the conclusion that the damage was not caused at the WB curve.

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amy researches wrote:

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I don't think damage would prove a Vasi connection. My thought is unrelated to Vasi. If someone saw damage to the car prior to the NH accident, it would explain why NH private investigators came to the conclusion that the damage was not caused at the WB curve.

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coeur de lion wrote:

<quoted text>Did NHLI say how far from the WB accident they thought the original damage to the car happened? Or how long prior?

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amy researches wrote:

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In their theory,

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coeur de lion wrote:

<quoted text> You mean in John M. Healy's theory? In other words, Healy is trying to make the case that if something bad happened to Maura it happened, or at least started, before the final accident in Haverhill?

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coeur de lion wrote:

If someone with expertise in the autobody business can say that there was some damage sustained by MM's car before it even left Amherst, then doesn't that kind of call into question John M. Healy's notion that MM's car sustained damage a little west of and just before the accident at the WB curve?