Maura Murray

citigirl wrote:

<quoted text>I dont know if Monahan was on duty or off duty that night. I asked you where you recieved your info or documentation from because you had stated he was off duty. The only thing I know was he was at the scene that night. So no Iam not stating either way as to if he was or was not on duty because it is unknown to me.

By all accounts I have ever heard, Lt. Monahan was off duty that night.

Orko Kringer wrote:

<quoted text>

She wasn't stockpiling alcohol for a nuclear war, I was exaggerating my point there. But she had plenty of alcohol to go away for a few days with. With someone with limited money resources as Maura (being a college student), I would think that the amount of alcohol she purchased was a bit unusual. I would think most of the money she had would have to go towards lodging if she was planning on being gone a week.
If she was meeting another guy up in the mountains (almost impossible) she would've left a trace behind (email correspondence, etc ...)

About the alcohOl: did she even buy the box of wine that day? I thought she already had that from the party on sat but I could be Wong about that. Wasn't her bill at the liquor store for around 40$? To me that sounds about right for a few days in nh, it's not like she blew every dollar she had and what she bought certainly wasn't the kind of thing you would expect someone to buy who's planning on drinking themselves to death.

Then when she left the car she only took the bottle of kahlua with her. That should pretty much put to rest any theory that she was planning in drinking herself to death right there.
What was she gonna mix with the kahlua? You don't drink that by itself, I find it very interesting that was the only bottle she took with her when she left the car.

She was looking up condos from her computer, she wasn't looking for cheap motel rooms she was looking up condos. She never had enough money to stay in a condo for even one might so who was paying for this condo? I find the fact that she was looking up condos to be very interesting as well..

How can you say it's almost impossible that she was planning on meeting someone or tracelling with someone? What makes it almost impossible?

If she had another phone, which is very likely IMO, then there would be no email corespondence and no record on her main phone. If she had another bf do you really think she would be calling him from a phone that's bill goes directly to her bf every month? I don't think so, then billy would have the guys number.

All the things you are saying make sense to an extent, but If you look at it from another angle you really can't draw any definite Conclusions from them

Jenkins wrote:

<quoted text>
Seems like your making a couple really big assumptions. There is a shred of evidence that she had another bf, her father mentions him in his written statement to umass police. I would consider that an indication that the guy likely did exist. Also, as I mentioned above, her neighbors in her dorm said they never saw her. That is a clear indication that she would oftentimes stay off campus. That doesn't mean it was definitely with a new bf, but generally that's where college girls will stay if they're not staying in their own room.
If she did have another bf I agree that her sister probably would have known about him. But do you really think she would tell the public about him? Really?? Why would she do that? The family put a real lot of effort into portraying her as a perfect all American girl. It is extremely unlikely that her sister would come out and tell the public about another bf. let's not forget the fact that she was supposed to be in a relationship with billy. In reality it's way more likely her sister would keep that fact secret than tell the public.
You really can't say it's a fact that she didn't have another bf because her sister hasn't told the public, why would she? She's under no obligation to tell the public anything, certainly not secrets she was keeping for her sister.
So your really 100% positive that's all she packed? How can you possibly be that sure? I'm sure the family inventoried her belongings but did they really know every single piece of clothing she owned? That's impossible, she was an adult, there is no way they knew everything she owned. She brought clothes for a couple days, there is no way that you know for a fact that she didn't pack a couple more things, or even one more thing. She really doesn't need that much clothes to go away for a few days. Come on, your stating this stuff as fact when clearly it isn't.

You are making assumptions.

I am going off what I have discovered/not discovered.

It doesn't mean I have every detail right and all the facts right, but it does mean that I don't just hear a rumor and assume it to be true.

Maura's father (by all accounts) was referring to billy when he was quoted talking about maura's boyfriend having luck with a car in that area.

Billy was a regular over in Amherst, often visiting maura and often doing things with her on weekends.

just me wrote:

<quoted text>
Advocate, I thought he was off duty too. Someone from that area told me he was not on duty that night, so I took it to be true.
Thanks Citi! It's good to have the truth. I don't know that it matters, but it's still something I'll bet many people thought.

JustMe I never stated either way if Monahan was on or off duty. I honestly dont know . SBD had seen him at the scene and he spoke with RO and thats all I know.

Hey citigirl- maybe you can clear something up?
Did billy ever visit her in Amherst?
From what I've heard it was extremely rare that he was in the Amherst area, but rather visited her when she was at home.
Most reports say that she visited him in Ohio most of the time when they hung out.
Do you happen to know what the deal is?

I've never heard that he was a regular in Amherst, I've not heard of him going and staying in her dorm room even once, or even a hotel in the area.

Hey orko- where r you gettin your info that he was a regular in Amherst? I was under the impression that in her whole time in Amherst he went and visited her there once.
Who ever said that Fred was talking about billy when he made that statement? This is the first I've ever heard that.
I've never heard of one report of him buying a car in noho, and why would he?? He lived in Ohio and was stationed in OK. When did he buy this car and why? Have you ever heard anyone from the family say that? I haven't.
Did billy even own a car??

I thought it was pretty clear Fred was NOT talking about billy in that statement. I could be wrong about that and would be glad to admit that I am if you can show me one reason to think that it was billy who bought a car there.

FrmLE wrote:

A word of advice. Debating this, or any topic with jenkins is a complete and utter waste of time and energy. No matter what you say or how convincing your point, he will counter it and will make up any 'fact' or embellishment tosupport "his" position.
Trust me on this, arguing with him is like arguing with the crazy bag lady on the street corner with the shopping cart, no matter what you say it will all be for naught. He is the kig of lies, the master(bater) of spin, the Ayatolla of embelishment.
He has lots of time,(not sure if he is still unemployed or not) and he uses that time to sit and hammer out looonnnggg wordy posts that obfuscate and confuse.
Do as you wish, just remember I warned you.
:)

Lol, wow dude. Now isn't that the pot calling the kettle black? Talk about lying and making shit up, your whole post is a comolete fabrication and you know it a well as I.

You, and a couple other people have accused me in the past of making up facts, yet you've never ever once been able to catch me in a lie, and we all know you've tried your ass off.
It's hilarious actually, you guys try so hard and you just can't do it and you never will be able to. Know why? Because I've never made up a thing, unlike other people around here(you).

The fact of the matter here is that I and others have been able to show clearly that your a liar on more than a few occasions and you've never been able to show I have. Just like the other day when I clearly showed that your story has changed on at least 2 different occasions, And then invited everybody to go back and read the posts for themselves.
Just saying something doesn't make it so, I'm not sure you grasp that concept.

FrmLE wrote:

.
He has lots of time,(not sure if he is still unemployed or not) and he uses that time to sit and hammer out looonnnggg wordy posts that obfuscate and confuse.
Do as you wish, just remember I warned you.
:)

Back to this unemployed bullshit.
But hold on, a few months ago you stated that you were able to figure out exactly who I really was from the information I provided, so what's up? You were lying about that right? Obviously.

Either you were lying then or you are lying now. I suspect that you did take the time to figure out who I really was, which really isn't that hard If you really wanted to.
You know I work for the Feds.
And btw,. Clearly I don't have that much time, I didn't even make one post for over 2 months this summer!. I was working a really in depth assignment and literally couldn't even look at topix for that whole time. Looking back at te time I was gone I see you were still attacking me even when I wasn't here.
I must really hit a big nerve with you huh? Clearly your scared of some information, my question is why???

Is it true that le never even showed the family the video from the ATM?
I believe it is and I gotta say, that is strange.
In most cases le would want someone who knew her well to look at the video and give a positive id that it was in fact Maura, it is reall strange that no one from the family was shown the video.
I always found it odd that LE didnt make the video public.
In most missing persons cases LE releases the last known pictures/video of the missing person. And many times that ends up being ATM/convenience store security footage. Countless times on the news when someone goes missing you see the person on security footage.
There are many reasons for doing this but the biggest are to show people what the person looked like most recently and because that kind of footage is interesting and drums up interest in the case which increases the likelyhood that the missing person will be found. Without information from the public LE can't do anything.

Why not show it in this case?
Why not at least show it to the family?
What could that video possibly have on it that they don't want the family or public to see? You would think that it must have something on it. I don't see any other reason to not show that video.

LE says that she appeared to be alone in the footage, so it can't be that.
Is it possible she had a black eye?
Could that also be a reason for her to leave school in such a hurry?

I still think that she had a black eye in the picture that was taken in the hallway of her dorm when she got caught using the stolen CC. It looks like she has a small black eye, not a really bad one but it definitely looks like a black eye to me. Bill had me convinced for a munute that it was a camera artifact caused by dithering but after looking at it further and doing a little research on dithering I'm about 99% that it was a black eye.

Jenkins,I agree the ATM video thing has always seemed odd.Maybe Citigirl could offer insight..Why wouldnt they allow the family to I.D. her on the video?It must contain some strong evidence.
Jenkins,I for 1 enjoy your posts..I think you make the hidden agenda gang nervous hence their neverending attacks.

Bumping for Maura wrote:

<quoted text>
Advocate,
I´ve always been reading that state trooper JKM was in fact off duty when he happened to pass by Maura´s accident site and that he was on his way home in his cruiser at the time.

When I checked my notes, it seemed clear that JKM was in the vicinity about the time that CS showed up or shortly after, and that JKM proceeded on west on 112 where he passed RO, stopped and said "Oh, it's you" -- which suggests he was aware that CS et al. were looking for the driver of the Saturn and so stopped briefly when he saw someone (RO) walking on 112. Per my notes, JKM then went on his way responding to another call which seems to have been the suicidal young fella. So if he was responding to the suicidal youth call, then I guess he was actually on duty.

If Maura did indeed have a black eye in the ATM video,why is it a secret?Are they expecting a confession including "black eye"?Not sure how a black eye kept secret could further the case..

Jenkins wrote:

Hey orko- what monikers have you posted under in the past?
I don't recall ever seein the name "orko kringer" before and it sounds like you have been researching this for a while now, did you just recently start posting or have you posted under other monikers in the past?
You stated you've had some of the forums printed in a "file for years", did you used to read the forums and not post?
I'm wondering just because im interested, not trying to get on your case or anything.
While I may disagree with you on your suicide theory I definitely respect you for being so knowledgable on the topic and debating the merits of the case, and not resorting to stupid personal attacks.
If you don't wanna answer the question about previous monikers I guess that's alright I'm really just wondering how someone can research this for years and not wanna chime in with their opinion.

First time poster here Jenkins.

And I never posted back in the day.

I am actually still kind of new.

I kind of dived in around the same time James Renner showed up with his blog, but I knew about the case well before I ever read anything on his blog.

Just to add to the matter about what she took with her on the trip north to NH, she reportedly did have a backpack with her that was not found in the car. So presumably she took the backpack when she left the vicinity of the car.

What could have been in the backpack?

.

Jenkins wrote:

Hey citigirl- maybe you can clear something up?
Did billy ever visit her in Amherst?
From what I've heard it was extremely rare that he was in the Amherst area, but rather visited her when she was at home.
Most reports say that she visited him in Ohio most of the time when they hung out.
Do you happen to know what the deal is?
I've never heard that he was a regular in Amherst, I've not heard of him going and staying in her dorm room even once, or even a hotel in the area.
Hey orko- where r you gettin your info that he was a regular in Amherst? I was under the impression that in her whole time in Amherst he went and visited her there once.
Who ever said that Fred was talking about billy when he made that statement? This is the first I've ever heard that.
I've never heard of one report of him buying a car in noho, and why would he?? He lived in Ohio and was stationed in OK. When did he buy this car and why? Have you ever heard anyone from the family say that? I haven't.
Did billy even own a car??
I thought it was pretty clear Fred was NOT talking about billy in that statement. I could be wrong about that and would be glad to admit that I am if you can show me one reason to think that it was billy who bought a car there.

I will have to pull up the article when I get home from work about billy visiting maura all of the time.

It was mentioned in an article that you can't find so easily anymore. the article contained quotes from maura's friends and one such quote grabbed the anger of the family and the person quoted back-tracked what she said and blamed it on the reporter for mis-quoting her.

But otherwise, the writer was very informative and is (as far as I can tell) a pretty credible journalist.

Interesting orko, I don't know how you could have researched this for years and never posted, but more power to you, I don't think I could do that.

What year about did you become interested in this case? Did you know about it back in 04 when it has just happened?
Thanks for answering that

Please find that article if you can orko because I swear that somewhere else one of her family members or friends said that he only visited her once while she was at umass and that most of the time she went to Ohio to visit him. I will try to look for that as well.

But really, I've never heard any report of billy being a regular to umass, most of the times I've ever heard anything about that it was always her visiting his family house in OH or him visiting her hometown. I can remember her family talking about several different visits that they had together but I can't remember one story of him visiting her at umass.

Things that can be learned from the article done by Joe McGee of the Patriot Ledger (a newspaper close to maura's hometown)

--- Maura was introduced to billy by her sister Julie.
----Maura and billy both planned her departure from west point,(so if you believe billy) there was no maura getting kicked out of west point on a honors code violation like what has been rumored. they planned her departure from west point months before she left.

----Fred graduated from UMASS and maura's mom was a nurse (helps explain how she ended up there).

---- Maura's new friends at UMASS described her as "elusive" but "somewhat flirtatious" when she drank.

---Maura's favorite movie was bottle rocket and one of her favorite websites to go to was The Onion.

---- one of maura's childhood best friends attended a college not far from maura, yet they never visited one another. the friend (who was interviewed on the ID Disappeared show) calls maura "Secretive."

A direct quote from the story

"When Rausch (Billy) visited Amherst during vacations, they would do what many couples do on the weekends: hiking in the mountains, shopping for antiques and visiting bookstores in western massachusetts."
"Basically anytime together was well-spent," Rausch said.

That's really interesting orko because there are definitely reports that directly contradict that report there. I guess that report doesn't say the # of times he visited it does make it sound like he did often.

I will try to dig up one of the articles I am talking about, I believe there are a couple direct quotes from her sister or a friend that contradict how that article makes it sound.

Didn't renner confirm that she was kicked out of WP for an honor code violation? I'm sure billy is just trying to make her sound better..they really tried to portray her as an "all-American girl". I believe that article was written long before the info about her expulsion from WP, was it not?
It certainly wasn't the family who told the public she had been kicked out.

I always found it interesting how interested in Maura's image her family was, going so far to say false information to the public.

Doesnt the fact that she only took the bottle of kahlua with her when she left the car tell you something?
That tells me that she wasn't planing on goin to the top of a mt to drink herself to death, but rather probably just wanted to have a few drinks. Look st what she got for liquor; wine, Seagrams and kahlua, presumably she'd make white or black Russians with the kahlua.
It's not like she bought 151 or moonshine or something.
All of those are pretty light drinks, you can clearly get wasted off that but do people really mix up white Russians to off themself? No way, you'd Luke from all the kahlua
And milk long before the vodka actually killed you.

Also what the hell was she gonna do drink the kahlua straight? This always made me think that she was waiting for someone she knew to come along behind her, somebody with oh I'd say some vodka and some milk to complete that white Russian.

She had just crashed her car where her cell didn't work, why wasn't she more concerned with using a phone? How was she gonna get to where she was going? Think about it, you crash in the middle of nowhere your #1 concern is how Yur gonna get a ride. It didn't sound like she was very worried about that. It really make me wonder if she wasn't waiting for someone.

She didn't want to use a phone to call aaa, she didn't want to call her family; instead she got all her things together that she would need for the night, including her bottle of kahlua, according to lt. Scarinza.
Idk, it doesn't sound to me like she was so depressed/distraught she was about to wander into the woods through 2' of snow and go drink herself to death.
It sounds to me like there's a good possibility she was waitin for someone to lil her up so she could continue on to her destination. Either that or she was planning on walking to a phone, but if she was doing that then why would she even need the overnight bag? She can't be thinking that she's gonna walk to a hotel from there, no way she's that stupid.

This doesn't necessarily rule out the suicide theory but I think it rules out her including alcohol in her plan. Remember, she only brought kahlua when she left the car. That means if she had suicide in mind when she left the car at the wb curve there is no way alcohol was part of the plan.
I was pretty surprised when I learned that fact.

The other thing that her choice of drinks tells me is that she wasn't planning on binge drinking, like getting super crazy wasted. None of those drink are what you think of when

Jenkins wrote:

Please find that article if you can orko because I swear that somewhere else one of her family members or friends said that he only visited her once while she was at umass and that most of the time she went to Ohio to visit him. I will try to look for that as well.
But really, I've never heard any report of billy being a regular to umass, most of the times I've ever heard anything about that it was always her visiting his family house in OH or him visiting her hometown. I can remember her family talking about several different visits that they had together but I can't remember one story of him visiting her at umass.

If Billy was stationed at fort sill, I doubt very much he bought a car in the umass area and drove it back to OK.