Maura Murray

JWB wrote:

In re reading Renners article Renner interviewed Mr Cowles and his wife who lived accross the street from RF . The Cowles remained in Contact with RF. Either Mr Cowles saw the Trailer getting pulled over or this was relayed to him by RF.

Very interesting.

Just reading more renner and stumbled on a post that was posted on Helenas old forum. I realize that this isn't new news but still find it interesting so here it is again to look at if you want.

"Maura Murray is NOT a Missing Person

Maura Murray has the right as every independent adult does to leave with her new boyfriend and start a new life. Maura is living a content and satisfying life in the Province of Quebec.

Maura's father Fred Murray never quite forgave her for being asked to leave West Point. It was his personal bragging point that he had two daughters at West Point. Maura's dismissal damaged Fred's ego and he never completely forgave her.

Maura's being asked to leave West Point and all the ensuing criticism by her father was the beginning of a certain line of thought for Maura, culminating in her leaving on Feb 9, 2004 to start a new life unencumbered by the constant criticism of her father. Maura's relationship with William Rausch was near its end. Ac- cording to Maura's sister Kathleen, they were having 'serious problems.' Maura had met someone new, who unlike William Rausch had no West Point connections and therefore was not a constant reminder to her of her failure at West Point.

On the night of February 5 2004 Maura took a break from her job at the security desk at a UMass dormitory to go and briefly get coffee and some food.

Sometime between 12 MN and 1 AM Maura driving her Saturn struck and critically injured the UMass student Petrit Vasi leav- ing him for dead.

Around 1 AM - 1:20 AM Feb 6 Maura had a complete emotional breakdown brought on by this hit and run accident. Maura's breakdown was witnessed by a student who reported this to Maura's supervisor, who then came and saw that Maura needed physical help to get back to her dormitory. The supervisor then physically helped Maura back to her dorm and recommended counseling.

Between 2 and 3 AM on the morning of Sunday Feb 8 Maura had a second motor vehicle accident wrecking her father's new car.

Fred Murray's new car was towed around 3 AM to his Hadley motel room. Maura arrived at Fred's motel at the same time as a passenger in the tow truck. Fred was not happy with Maura to put it mildly. What happened in this motel room we'll never know but I do know for a fact that there was some physical violence on the part of Fred Murray. Fred Murray has a history of domestic violence. The next day Maura left for good.

Maura needed to disguise the evidence of the Petrit Vasi hit and run by staging another accident for the purpose of covering up the damage to her car from the Vasi hit and run. She and her new boyfriend travelled in tandem to Route 112 in NH (He was already in Southern NH). The accident was staged, she left her Saturn, walked down the road to where her boyfriend was waiting for her in his car. She disappeared, her only wish is that she be left alone to live her life in peace. She is happy and contented and just wants to be left alone.� "

A very interesting take by john Green on the above post. The part I find interesting is his Rag Theory. Sorry about reposting but I found it interesting.

"I'd also like to remind that this theory squares with at least one other fact not mentioned in the email itself, perhaps corroborating it. In my much pouted over not posted, "novella" :) I laid out specfically a proof based on known facts that (a) Maura stopped somewhere for most likely in range of 40 to 55 minutes. This could have taken her to various interesting places, including - potentially - close enough to that tower to have been the source of ping. It also could take her to various population centers along the way, including at least two significant colleges (Dartmouth and Keene). In fact, there may be reason to think that visiting Keene College resulted in the ping even though it is more than 20 miles away (technical thing that I wont reiterate). My point is if you do the math around her trip, there is no question that there is some slack time. This fits in well with the other person already being in southern NH. AND, she may have driven to that person's place, whereupon, they towed her car. They may have been towing to a planned site to stage an accident when she flew of the tow. Oh oh, and her comes Bruce. She shoos him away but probably senses that with all the houses around the cops are coming. All that booz might have been part of the plan. Maybe it was spilled there on purpose. The rag in the tailpipe was to signal the tow (something that is often). When she flew off the tow, they figured, well, not where we planned this, but good enough lets go. Hastily, she stuffed the rag into the tail pipe. They left.

If further analysis and clues were to lead to this scenario being possible, somebody ought to go check under the front bumper of that Saturn, which I think is still sitting at Troop and that was towed away on a flat bed, to see if there is any evidence of a rope or chain scarping against the bottom of the bumper, which would happen when you go around corners.

Hell, I will drive up there from Asheville, NC and do it.

Again, James ... you are the man. This is incredible. And it just RESONATES with truth."

JWB wrote:

Just reading more renner and stumbled on a post that was posted on Helenas old forum. I realize that this isn't new news but still find it interesting so here it is again to look at if you want.

"Maura Murray is NOT a Missing Person

Maura Murray has the right as every independent adult does to leave with her new boyfriend and start a new life. Maura is living a content and satisfying life in the Province of Quebec.

Maura's father Fred Murray never quite forgave her for being asked to leave West Point. It was his personal bragging point that he had two daughters at West Point. Maura's dismissal damaged Fred's ego and he never completely forgave her.

Maura's being asked to leave West Point and all the ensuing criticism by her father was the beginning of a certain line of thought for Maura, culminating in her leaving on Feb 9, 2004 to start a new life unencumbered by the constant criticism of her father. Maura's relationship with William Rausch was near its end. Ac- cording to Maura's sister Kathleen, they were having 'serious problems.' Maura had met someone new, who unlike William Rausch had no West Point connections and therefore was not a constant reminder to her of her failure at West Point.

On the night of February 5 2004 Maura took a break from her job at the security desk at a UMass dormitory to go and briefly get coffee and some food.

Sometime between 12 MN and 1 AM Maura driving her Saturn struck and critically injured the UMass student Petrit Vasi leav- ing him for dead.

Around 1 AM - 1:20 AM Feb 6 Maura had a complete emotional breakdown brought on by this hit and run accident. Maura's breakdown was witnessed by a student who reported this to Maura's supervisor, who then came and saw that Maura needed physical help to get back to her dormitory. The supervisor then physically helped Maura back to her dorm and recommended counseling.

Between 2 and 3 AM on the morning of Sunday Feb 8 Maura had a second motor vehicle accident wrecking her father's new car.

Fred Murray's new car was towed around 3 AM to his Hadley motel room. Maura arrived at Fred's motel at the same time as a passenger in the tow truck. Fred was not happy with Maura to put it mildly. What happened in this motel room we'll never know but I do know for a fact that there was some physical violence on the part of Fred Murray. Fred Murray has a history of domestic violence. The next day Maura left for good.

Maura needed to disguise the evidence of the Petrit Vasi hit and run by staging another accident for the purpose of covering up the damage to her car from the Vasi hit and run. She and her new boyfriend travelled in tandem to Route 112 in NH (He was already in Southern NH). The accident was staged, she left her Saturn, walked down the road to where her boyfriend was waiting for her in his car. She disappeared, her only wish is that she be left alone to live her life in peace. She is happy and contented and just wants to be left alone.� "

We saw this load of crap before. It's no more believable now then it was then. No references, nothing to back any of this up. Not even a good story and very poorly told. Every good bullshit story needs some elements of truth, like this one has. Most here recognize the true bits. And any reasonable person recognizes the Vasi bullshit story, yet again. Almost this entire story is made up. Waste your time with it if you wish. I won't bother. No reasonably intelligent person could take that story seriously without lots more evidence to substantiate it.

Bill

To each his own WTH . I find it interesting non the less and possibly worth exploring.You have no proof that it is a load of crap or not a load of crap (aka Bullshit) it is just your Bullshitometer
reading aka your oppinion no facts included.

JWB wrote:

To each his own WTH . I find it interesting non the less and possibly worth exploring.You have no proof that it is a load of crap or not a load of crap (aka Bullshit) it is just your Bullshitometer
reading aka your oppinion no facts included.

Again. Spoken entirely backwards. It is total bullshit until PROVEN otherwise. It's not even a viable working theory considering how much unsubstantiated crap is slung around in those sentences.

Bill

WTH-the-original wrote:

<quoted text>
Again. Spoken entirely backwards. It is total bullshit until PROVEN otherwise. It's not even a viable working theory considering how much unsubstantiated crap is slung around in those sentences.
Bill

I said I found it interesting and I am sticking to it.

I think you have it backwards WTH

First you identify a plausable theory and then you investigate that avenue until you are proven wrong. Example : If LE has a person of interest they investigate that person until they rule him/her out through further investigation. LE doesn't automatically have their answer without investigating,

[QUOTEwho="JWB"]plau sable theory[/QUOTE]

Bingo. One that fits the known facts and then search out from there.

One does not just make shit up and proceed as though it is true.

Bill

WTH-the-original wrote:

<quoted text>
Bingo. One that fits the known facts and then search out from there.
One does not just make shit up and proceed as though it is true.
Bill

Still Crabby today Bill?

JWB wrote:

<quoted text>Still Crabby today Bill?

Not crabby. Had surf and turf last night though, so a little lobstery. Little bummed. Have to head home today.

Bill

Wowzer the real one wrote:

<quoted text>
In the past we were told that it was searched after it reached it's destination. I don't think it was immediately searched but not sure how soon after it was parked did they search it.
In all these years of reading these forums I've never heard that the SP pulled it over on the road and searched it.
Also I believe they would still need a search warrent unless the new owner gave permission for it to be searched.They would not have pulled it over on the road to thoroughly search it .

Yes you are correct. The trailer was searched sometime after it reached its destination. Shack do you recall when and in what town the trailer was searched in? Thank you.

citigirl wrote:

<quoted text>Yes you are correct. The trailer was searched sometime after it reached its destination. Shack do you recall when and in what town the trailer was searched in? Thank you.

lyme NH

JWB wrote:

<quoted text>
From renner:
"Rusty Cowles says eventually Forcier sold his trailer and had it trucked away. When he did, the state police pulled the truck over and searched the trailer from top to bottom, a clever way to get around a search warrant. Forcier has since moved away from Haverhill to be closer to his kids. He has not responded to a request for an interview."

Um Mr Renner is incorrect the trailer was never pulled over. It made it to the final destination as to where it was going and to my knowledge the new owners allowed it to be searched by LE.

gpj wrote:

<quoted text>lyme NH

The final destination was in a town that began with L. I believe you are correct.The trailer was never searched on the side of the road and I dont believe any neighbor stated this to Renner.

Wow wowzer, you clearly knew that the trailer was searched when you accused me of making it up huh?
What the hell was that?
Do you often accuse people of making things up when you obviously know for a fact that they didnt?
That's pretty bad, how about a little integrity here..maybe just a little at least?
Are you guys gonna ever stop accusing me of making shit up? It's completely ridiculous, you guys have never ever once caught me making something up and you never ever will..wanna know why?? Because I never have!! I suspect your not ginna stop, it's clearly one Of your tactics. I also suspect that you guys have always known I didnnt make something up when u accused me of it.
You may disagree w some conclusions that I draw, that's fine, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But to accuse me of making shit up is just plain wrong on so many levels, particularly when you clearly know that i didn't..again, integrity.

Whether it was searched on the side of the road or at its destination really doesn't matter, the point is that it was searched.
They must have had some sort of reason for doing so, some sort of compelling reason to make them take that action.
I wonder if it's because he made up that sighting or if they had something more than that. Either way, they must consider him a poi or a suspect because there is no way they're gonna waste their time searching the trailer of someone who they don't think had anything to do with it.
When his trailer was parked on his property it was legally considered a home, homes require a much higher level of probable cause then a vehicle does, they clearly waited until the trailer was moved to take advantage of that fact. They must have asked him to search it previously and were denied. I wonder If they ever put in a request for a warrant, judging from their actions I would think that they did but that's obviously opinion.

Also, just the fact that they searched his trailer at all shows that they don't really think she's a suicide or just lost in the woods. If they truly believed she was a suicide or lost in the woods they wouldn't be searching anyone's trailer. They would search the woods or just wait for a hunter to come across her body.
And nobody can say that they took that action just to make it look like they were investigating because it isn't a widely known fact that they searched it. As far as I know it hasn't been made known to the general public, it wasn't in any newspaper articles or on tv. I may be wrong about that but that info hasn't been in any articles I've ever read, I only read about it on renner. I thought they searched it en route to take advantage of the reduced need for probable cause.
They searched his trailer as an attempt to find potential evidence, plain and simple. His trailer could not possibly have evidence of a suicide or her being lost in the woods.
The fact that they searched the trailer is a direct indication that le believes she was most likely a victim of foul play
They don't search houses when they believe someone committed suicide or got lost in the woods.

Didn't smith write the accident report about a week after the accident?
Shouldn't that eliminate the thought that he was on scene so long bc he was filling out reports?

Smith may or may not have been investigating for foul play that night, I don't know, but one thing is clear, he did not treat this like a normal minor one car accident, the same that happen every day in the north country. He may not have been investigating a murder but he sure did give this accident more attention than cops usually give minor accidents like this, which generally should take an hour tops, usually not even that long.
It is not normal for a cop to stay on the scene of a one car accident for 2hrs, it's just not. Something about this scene was strange enough that it made him feel the need to give it extra attention. 2 hours is a long time for a one car accident where there wasn't even any property damaged.

I'd say the strangest thing he did was get down on his hands and knees in the dirty snow on the side of the road and look up the muffler. Not only did he do that but it had to be one of the first things he did when he arrived...why?? What did he see when he arrived that made him feel the need to take this highly unusual action? The rag was "stuffed way up there" so we know he couldn't see it without looking for it. Also that muffler is really low so he would've had to get on his hands and knees in order to see it. This is an extremely odd action to take, even more so that it was one of the first things that he did upon arrival. Literally within minutes of arriving he was on his hands an knees in the dirty snow looking up her muffler. Something indicated a need to look, and he actually found a rag.

Was he looking for something that could have disabled the car?
Im trying but I really can't think of any other reason for him to do that. To me it looks like he saw that she clipped the snowbank on the inside of the road, which would mean she lost control BEFORE the curve. She very likely lost power and with it power steering and was trying to regain control when she clipped the bank on the inside of the curve. It looks like he was looking for something that could have disabled the car, and he found something. I don't see how he could see that and NOT think foul play.

JWB wrote:

If CS cleared the scene and Left after say 45 min then he would have been slammed for leaving a young female to find her way on a winters night in the pitch dark > CS stayes for 2 hours in hopes the girl would return or be found. I read no more than that into it.

Hey jwb that is a really good point, maybe it was simply because he knew it was a young girl and it was a cold winter nite. That by itself could and should be reason enough for him to give it a little more attention than he would other accidents.

That still doesn't explain some of his actions but just that alone could be enough reason for him to give this accident a little more attention. He doesn't wanna be the guy who left to go to DnD after 45m when there's a young girl potentially out on the rd somewhere

JWB that post you reposted from renner sure is interesting. It's impossible at this point to know if it's true or not but IMO it has a ring of truth to it. It's funny that you posted it here, I was just re-reading that 2 days ago.

Hey citigirl- do you have any thoughts on that post that jwb reposted from renner's blog?
What do u think, total bullshit?

And what do you think about the post after it where some computer expert(leone) supposedly tracked the IP of the user "observer", who said the story is true and well known to the family, and said that "observer" is you.
Do you deny being "observer" and making that post? Was it someone else who just coincidently was posting from your location Or somewhere close by? To be clear I'm not accusing you of being "observer"; I am truly asking you. If you don't want to answer that it's your perogative.

Personally I truly hope that the original post is true, except for the part about vasi. IMO that would be so cool if Maura actually ran away and was able to start a new life. According to reports She had expressed a desire to do that in the past and if that's what she wanted to do I really hope that is what she was able to do.

According to people that knew her she never expressed any suicidal thoughts, in general she seemed like a really happy person who was fun to be around. Yea she had her problems, just like everyone, but it seems like depression just wasn't one of them. It does not sound like she was a depressed person who was suicidal at all. That just does not jive with what people that knew her said about her. To my knowledge There isn't one person who's ever said she was depressed. I've not read one person who hasn't described her as being happy and smiling all the time. Saying she suddenly became suicidal just doesn't make any sense when you consider what people who knew her say about her. You would think that there would be at least one person saying that she was depressed sometimes, but there isn't. If anything it sounds like she would try to go start a new life before she would commit suicide.

Sadly it looks like she was abducted and killed. Looking at this truly objectively that just seems like the most likely thing, unfortunately.

I truly hope that she went off and started a new life, however unlikely that is.