Maura Murray

Bill says yes they like squirrels

JWB wrote:

Would agent Jenkins have searched East?

He would probably have to check with his advisor, but yes I think he would. Agent Jenkins Saves The Day!(You should know that I picture Agent Jenkins as a cartoon superhero who is dressed like a can of Redbull - with a cape - and his superpower is speed.)

amy researches wrote:

Bill or Hannah or President FrmLE,
Do any of you know if a cadaver dog will hit on a dead animal? Or can they differentiate between animal and human somehow?

I have been told by handlers that they will not hit on dead animals or artifacts from dead animals. Supposedly just human remains.

Bill

JWB wrote:

Off topic:
I have been reading that many vehicles have a safety mechanism that won't allow the car to start for a certain period of time after Airbags are deployed. This is for fire safety. I don't know if Mauras car had that feature.
Also- I read on a 2008 Saturn that the drivers airbags deployed and they were inquiring how to shut off the airbag light . I was wondering if FW could have seen the airbag light and not a male smoking a cigarette.

But Maura moved her car parallel to the road. Not sure how much time went by and for how long she was really there, but the car was drivable....at least that much.

In listening to Healy on Crimewire, I got a better understanding why the PI's didn't do forensics on the carpet. Healy stated that any evidence that they found during their investigation was turned over to NHSP.Not just the carpet evidence, but any evidence they found while investigating. Healy stated that they had an understanding with the NHSP that they would not hinder the ongoing investigation and that they would only try and help.

just me wrote:

<quoted text>But Maura moved her car parallel to the road. Not sure how much time went by and for how long she was really there, but the car was drivable....at least that much.

That begs the question- If her car was working then why did she leave it?

WTH-the-original wrote:

<quoted text>
I have been told by handlers that they will not hit on dead animals or artifacts from dead animals. Supposedly just human remains.
Bill

Interesting. Thanks Bill.

amy researches wrote:

<quoted text>
Interesting. Thanks Bill.

come on Amy aren't you going to ask about the squirels

Lighthouse 101 wrote:

<quoted text>
Citigirl below is a quote from the Hanson Witman Express. Looks like he set up the search, got the key and was also there. To answer your question I was not present at the search. What about you where you there? Were you an "observer"?
"Fred was also present for the search and aggressively pushed investigators to search an A-frame house on Valley Road near the scene of the accident. He suspected it might be somehow connected.
The property was on the real estate market, so Fred sought out real estate agent Stan Davis and asked permission to search the house. Davis confirmed that he gave Fred his consent and provided him with a key to the house.
The fight for the house search was worth the effort."
On the first day, a cadaver dog searched the house and had hits on the second level; the next day four more cadaver dogs were put to work in the house and went "bonkers," Fred said. The strongest hits by the dogs were in a downstairs closet. Cadaver dogs are skilled in sniffing for decomposing bodies but are not able to distinguish the identities of bodies. "

It was the PIs who set up the searches ahead of time for this weekend. The PIs were given the key.Fred was not in the area when the AFrame house was searched.Yes I was there.

amy researches wrote:

<quoted text>Interesting. Thanks Bill.

I really have to stress that is what I was told. I asked the same question. I don't know how all decaying flesh doesn't have the same smell. It strikes me more as magic that they can do this. I am someone that doesn't believe in magic. Having nothing else to contradict what the experts have told me. I have to accept it......for now.

Bill

Wowzer the real one wrote:

<quoted text>
I don't believe it was searched by LE, just the PI's and whoever was with them. You are correct.
It looks just the same. Trees shade it so it looks dark and gloomy, windows busted out in the front and who knows what damage was done in the back. Never saw any police tape around it though, ever.

It was searched only by the PIs during the 06 search.

JWB wrote:

In listening to Healy on Crimewire, I got a better understanding why the PI's didn't do forensics on the carpet. Healy stated that any evidence that they found during their investigation was turned over to NHSP.Not just the carpet evidence, but any evidence they found while investigating. Healy stated that they had an understanding with the NHSP that they would not hinder the ongoing investigation and that they would only try and help.

They did test it and it came out positive for blood. What Healy did say is anything they learned regarding this case they would turn it over to LE,

amy researches wrote:

<quoted text>
He would probably have to check with his advisor, but yes I think he would. Agent Jenkins Saves The Day!(You should know that I picture Agent Jenkins as a cartoon superhero who is dressed like a can of Redbull - with a cape - and his superpower is speed.)

Lol, that's hilarious Amy. Gotta have the cape

JWB wrote:

Would agent Jenkins have searched East?

Lol, yes agent Jenkins would have sent one of the 3 cars searching that night to the east...that is unless there was a compelling reason NOT to...

amy researches wrote:

<quoted text>
Can we assign Agent Jenkins to solve the mystery of the 3 or 4 alligators rumored to be stashed in a Woodsville house?!?!? I hear they are illegal immigrant alligators, if that helps.
I wish I lived in NH. You guys have all the fun.:-)

Lol, Alligators in Woodsville?! I'll take that case

I believe bill has it right about the cadaver dogs.
Supposedly they will only hit on human remains.
Cadaver dogs are supposed to be rather reliable in this regard.

So citi- since Fred wasn't present during the search of the A-frame then it is safe to assume that the "bonkers" comment was actually said by a pi originally, not Fred?

And just to be clear did the pi's get the carpet sample forensically tested or did only LE do that? The test to confirm whether it is blood or not is an easy test that can be performed in the field if they had the right materials, which I would think they would.
Did they test it for the presence of blood in the field and when it was found to be present they gave it to the NHSP to be analyzed forensically?

I thought I read somewhere that the carpet was cut into two samples and the pi's had once piece tested independently and LE tested the other piece. Is that wrong?
Was LE the only ones who had the carpet tested forensically?

WTH-the-original wrote:

<quoted text>
I really have to stress that is what I was told. I asked the same question. I don't know how all decaying flesh doesn't have the same smell. It strikes me more as magic that they can do this. I am someone that doesn't believe in magic. Having nothing else to contradict what the experts have told me. I have to accept it......for now.
Bill

I remember one case I worked on (as a paralegal - I am not a federal agent) where a dog had "hit" on the burial site of a family dog. I don't recall what kind of dog they used or really anything else about the dog other than we laughed our asses off when we heard about it. So I was wondering if this is a common mistake dogs make or not. In regard to the aframe, I was thinking maybe the folks who lived there were hunters or had pets? But if what you are told is correct then I am at a loss. Also, why would a cadaver dog hit on menstrual blood?

Agent Jenkins wrote:

<quoted text>
Lol, Alligators in Woodsville?! I'll take that case

Get your cape ready! Here you go:
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/franconia-nh/...

Just me- That's a good point about her backing up the car after the accident, her car must have been running.

When Fred and billy went to the tow company they said it started fine.
There was a first responder who said that he wondered why she didn't just drive it away from the scene, implying it looked drivable.
None of the damage looks like damage you can't drive away from. A few years ago I got hit by a city bus in my Honda passport suv and the damage was WAY worse than hers and I drove it around for a month.

I see only two logical reasons for why she didn't try to drive it away: the car was stalling out on the way into the curve and it still wasn't running properly when she was backing it up. Kind of like there was something in the muffler causing the motor to not run properly. When Fred started it at lavoies and it was running fine the rag had been removed at that point.

The other reason is if she was expecting someone she knew to be coming along to give her a ride. That's kind of what it sounds like to me. Doesn't sound like she really tried driving it at all, all she did was back it up so it was parallel to the road, it was ass end into the snowbank immediately following the crash. You would think if she was up there alone and was worried about the cops she would try to drive the car away but she didn't do that. She parked it on the side of the road and then got her belongings together. Then when she left she only took the kahlua with her. To me that is a direct indication she expected someone she knew to be coming along, you don't drink kahlua by itself. Sounds like she expected someone to be coming along, someone who probably had vodka and milk with them.

I can't really think of any other reasons for her to not at least try to drive the car away from the scene.

amy researches wrote:

<quoted text> Also, why would a cadaver dog hit on menstrual blood?

They didn't just hit on the blood, according to the source, Shack (the only source I have ever heard for this information), they went "bonkers".

So we have questions about if the dogs actually went bonkers, something I have never heard a real SAR dog doing, if it was reported correctly by the PI if that is where the information came from and if Shacks characterization is correct and if they actually hit on blood, which according to what I was told, they shouldn't do.

The whole described scene strikes me as a total cluster f**k of the highest degree from the start with absolutely no credibility at all.

Bill