Maura Murray

amy researches wrote:

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I'm with Bill that the whole thing sounds like a clusterfuck. If there is legitimate evidence to be collected, my opinion is that LE should be doing that in order for the evidence to later be admissible in court, not leave the job to a group of PIs mixing luminol and rabbit serum into potential evidence. Can you imagine the judge's reaction to this?

Imagine the doctors face when trying to complete a DNA match of a blood sample soaked with rabbit serum and luminol?

It was the same face I made when I found out that Wowzer was a rabbit hunter.

Lighthouse 101 wrote:

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I'm not even trying to be funny did you read your post. To tell the difference you have to add Rabbit serum to the liminol stain. Maybe they can buy luminol but rabbit serum? And then probably have to add just the right amount. I guess its possible.

The Pi's obviously didn't castrate a rabbit to do the test . the article is just saying how the test serum is derived.

JWB wrote:

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I think they got the rabbit serum from Wowzer if i am not mistaken

That was funny

Luminol does not damage the sample if it is used properly, otherwise it would defeat its own purpose.
Excessive use of luminol; applying way too much or multiple applications to the same sample can damage the DNA that is in the sample

The nhsp obviously didnt ask the nhli for help. I don't think Healy meant that when he said it. He was saying that they won't hinder the investigation in any way, only add to it.
Obviously LE agencies won't go and hire a private third part to do any work for them, well it's extremely rare anyways.
Although they dont do that They can, and sometimes do, use evidence that is found by a pi. It obviously depends on what the evidence is and how it was collected but they can use it.
The question is whether they can use to to obtain a conviction, which they can do and has happened. This is why in a case like this it is important for the pi to be very experienced and preferably a former LEO.
Somebody like Healy, who was an experienced investigator and has collected evidence many times would be a lot more likely to have his evidence accepted by the court or the jury, than some random person who got their pis license. The person who collected the evidence is majorly important, that it is a reliable person who is experienced and has been collecting evidence for court cases for years. This is probably why Fred was no present for the search of the aframe. Having a family member present during the search is the kind of thing that could seriously cause a jury to question how reliable the evidence is.
The chain of custody in this case would be extremely important as well. They would have to show it was collected properly and then given directly to le without anyone else in between. The chain of custody in something like this would be scrutinized much more closely, a pi would need to be extremely careful to document the chain of custody in order for the evidence to be accepted.

Anything gathered by a pi and given to le would be much more closely looked at then something gathered by le but it can be used in a court of law.
It's not an ideal situation but sometimes it's all le and the DA have. To say they won't accept the evidence at court is wrong, but it needs to be gathered and handled much more carefully in order for it to accepted.

Jenkins wrote:

The nhsp obviously didnt ask the nhli for help. I don't think Healy meant that when he said it. He was saying that they won't hinder the investigation in any way, only add to it.
Obviously LE agencies won't go and hire a private third part to do any work for them, well it's extremely rare anyways.
Although they dont do that They can, and sometimes do, use evidence that is found by a pi. It obviously depends on what the evidence is and how it was collected but they can use it.
The question is whether they can use to to obtain a conviction, which they can do and has happened. This is why in a case like this it is important for the pi to be very experienced and preferably a former LEO.
Somebody like Healy, who was an experienced investigator and has collected evidence many times would be a lot more likely to have his evidence accepted by the court or the jury, than some random person who got their pis license. The person who collected the evidence is majorly important, that it is a reliable person who is experienced and has been collecting evidence for court cases for years. This is probably why Fred was no present for the search of the aframe. Having a family member present during the search is the kind of thing that could seriously cause a jury to question how reliable the evidence is.
The chain of custody in this case would be extremely important as well. They would have to show it was collected properly and then given directly to le without anyone else in between. The chain of custody in something like this would be scrutinized much more closely, a pi would need to be extremely careful to document the chain of custody in order for the evidence to be accepted.

Anything gathered by a pi and given to le would be much more closely looked at then something gathered by le but it can be used in a court of law.
It's not an ideal situation but sometimes it's all le and the DA have. To say they won't accept the evidence at court is wrong, but it needs to be gathered and handled much more carefully in order for it to accepted.

I am fairly certain a 1L could get that "evidence" tossed. While the judge laughs hysterically as the "process" was explained to him in court.

Bill

That's very possible bill, if their explanation to the judge is anything even resembling their explanation to the media, then it would be tossed for sure.

You would have to hope that it sounds way different in the media then it really is and the pis turned it over properly and promptly to le, and they had a chain of custody.
I'm not so sure this is the case but you would hope it to be, why would they go through the trouble of collecting the evidence if they were not going to handle it right.
The whole nhli are all former le investigators and they would have to know about chain of custody.
I would have to assume that what really happened is not really what was described in that article, well I hope anyways

Bumping for Maura wrote:

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RozShoem,
Interesting idea, but I fear that LE likely never thought of checking such a thing, since they seem to have pretty much dismissed witness RO and her observation of the likely MA-plated red truck in Swiftwater. At least, that is my understanding of things.

Bumping for Maura,
Both had lived in MA before WP and then U of Mass. I plan to confirm dates prior to WP and U of Mass when they were residing in MA at separate locations. This seems a bit too coincidental.

That's weird that Healy said le wasn't interested in the evidence at all and wouldn't take possession of the carpet, and then don nason says that all samples were turned over?
What's up with that? 2 different people. 2 different answers? Do they not communicate? You would think they would have the same answer.

Unless le has a good idea of what happened to mm I can't see them not being interested in the samples.
Even if they weren't plannin on usin it in court I would think that they would want to DNA test it to see if it was potentially mm, unless they somehow know that it's not. The only way I can see them knowing that it's not is if they have a pretty good idea of what happened here. Either that or they already tested a sample of the carpet before the pis even go to the aframe.

Hey aftermath do you happen to know if Maura and this individual knew each other? Do you know if they were acquainted or do you just think that since they both came from WP about the same time that it should be looked into?
Did you say a few posts back that this person did own a red truck?

JWB wrote:

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I think they got the rabbit serum from Wowzer if i am not mistaken

How did you know? I always carry a vial of it around in my pocket just in case a PI comes around wanting to check blood samples.

amy researches wrote:

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Between this and Wowzer the rabbit hunter, I am hiding my pet rabbits from all of you.:-P
As to how big the sample was, I have no idea.
If wowzer is right and LE never considered the house to be a crime scene, then my assumption would be that (if the PIs really did turn the carpet over to LE and LE really did test it) there was not a dead human body in the closet.
I'm with Bill that the whole thing sounds like a clusterfuck. If there is legitimate evidence to be collected, my opinion is that LE should be doing that in order for the evidence to later be admissible in court, not leave the job to a group of PIs mixing luminol and rabbit serum into potential evidence. Can you imagine the judge's reaction to this?

You'll be happy to know I no longer rabbit hunt.

Wowzer the real one wrote:

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You'll be happy to know I no longer rabbit hunt.

Mine would be easy to hunt. They will run to you if you rattle a bag - that means a snack.:-)

Watch out for those alligators!

amy researches wrote:

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Mine would be easy to hunt. They will run to you if you rattle a bag - that means a snack.:-)

Great to know in case times get tough and you need something, or someone to eat. Rattle the bag and then whose the snack. ;-)

Bill

Lighthouse 101 wrote:

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We should also assume that Healy isn't just searching houses and testing for blood, but then not testing for DNA. Was he just going into the house to look for random drops of blood, or was he going in to see if those random drops of blood was MM's? I'm sure a DNA test was done.
If you were given the results of the test that it came back positive for blood I'm 99% sure that your follow up question would be "Is it MM's" I would be hard pressed to think Healy would tell you the results of one test, but not the other.
I think he would have to test for DNA or else this blood sample means absolutely nothing. To say you have a random drop of blood in someone's house means nothing. To say you have a drop of blood from someone that is a missing person means a lot. Healy says he's 90% the Aframe search has nothing to do with MM. One can assume it was just a random drop of blood not associated to a missing person.
Getting back to my second paragraph I would be very hardpressed to not believe that when you found out it was human blood that you wouldn't want to see if it was MM's. I have a really tough time not believing that the results wouldn't be sent to the governor in another letter (and rightfully so) if they were indeed hers.
By being coy and not giving out the DNA results it keeps the Aframe open to a place of interest.

Healy was not at the Oct.2006 search. This house was searched because of what a NH resident had said. There were hits in this house. A couple of PIs told me the carpeting tested positive for blood. We tried to find out if DNA testing was done but never recieved an answer concerning whether or whether or not DNA testing was done. So it is unknown to me if DNA testing was done.

JWB wrote:

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well they did collect evidence right?They also re interviewed people. Healy was a former NHSP officer and he knew to keep his investigation on the up n up. The benefit being resources.They uncovered the CW statement about his spotting 4-5 miles away also. they gave the info to the NHSP. the NHSP are the ones that will eventually prosecute if there are findings.

CW had told a neighbor months later about seeing someone running 4to5 miles down the road from the accident scene while on his way home from a job in Franconia. I believe it was the neighbor who contacted LE and not CW.This info was known before PIs got involved in the case.

Citi the info wasn't brought to le by the ci's?
I thought the neighbor overheard cw saying that and the neighbor told the pi's, the pi's then brought it to le.
The neighbor went directly to le with that?

Either way, it wasn't the cw himself who brought that info to le, they had to go ask him after someone else told then. That's weird right there, you would think that If you really remember that you saw a missing person running 5 miles down the road that would be something to bring to le ASAP. It just seems unbelievable that he would be telling other people before le.

Wowzer the real one wrote:

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How did you know? I always carry a vial of it around in my pocket just in case a PI comes around wanting to check blood samples.

ha ha only kidding wowzer- Just having fun and I think you got that too- hey really i do like everyone here an thanks for the good conversation. I sure hope some resolution in our lifetime. Keep plugging with good intentions.

Wowzer the real one wrote:

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You'll be happy to know I no longer rabbit hunt.

ha ha ha I hoped you laughed at Elmer Fud? Couldn't resist sorry wowzer/ glad to see you are not upset about it.

citigirl wrote:

<quoted text>CW had told a neighbor months later about seeing someone running 4to5 miles down the road from the accident scene while on his way home from a job in Franconia. I believe it was the neighbor who contacted LE and not CW.This info was known before PIs got involved in the case.

ah very interesting - I remember listening to Healy on Crimewire talk about another piece of info that they picked up on and they turned it into NHSP- so is there other info than the CW piece that they may be talking about? You say it wasn't the RF info right?