Maura Murray

It appears that early on FW really did think she saw a man in the Saturn.

This quote is from an article entitled:
'friends,family of Maura Murray Upset with investigation'
I don't have the name of the paper or the date of the article although I know it was written in the first weeks after the crash. This article is on the 'Project Jason' website.

This a quote about what Billy said:

"Rausch said family members were told by at least one person living near the accident site a man was seen in Maura's car after the accident."

He doesn't say that they think it just might have been a man, or that they think it could have been a man or anything to that effect; he says that the family was told a man was seen in Maura's car by at least one person.
FW basically said More recently that she thought it was a man originally but all the media reports have kind of convinced her otherwise, that it was Maura.
Just interesting that she said that and when you read earlier references to it it sounds like she really thought she saw a man.
I guess it doesn't change anything, she still could have been wrong; It could have been Maura w her hair up. It's just interesting that perhaps all the news reports and people talking about Maura really did convince her she saw a woman when she didn't think so immediately.
TW thinks he saw a woman, correct?

In a different article she described seeing a man smoking a cigarette. She's pretty clear about that. I'm still baffled by the explanation everybody went with, that she mistook it for a cell phone light. How do you mistake a cigarette for a cell phone light? Seems like that's two entirely different lights sources that look completely different except there both red and not bright. Other than that they couldnt be more different. Another thing is that a cigarette is smoked with a distinct motion and theres almost a rhythm to it of the guy taking drags. Just seems to me like smoking is a very distinguishable action, definitely different than trying to use a cell phone.
TW disagrees with his wife on this as well, or did he not actually see the light himsel? Was that after he stopped lookin?

Idk, I just find it interesting how different she felt in the beginning about what she saw then she does now. It's interesting that in the beginning she thought she saw something completely different and now she thinks she saw basically exactly what the media has reported.

Did the mayotte's think it was a girl or were they not sure? I

investigated. big word not very specific.

if you mean cops they way out of picture. tammy g's bf if he even says he remembers anything.

coeur de lion wrote:

if you mean cops they way out of picture. tammy g's bf if he even says he remembers anything.

Yes, I meant investigated by LE. As in did LE explore a possible Vasi connection or any prior damage to the vehicle. Did you say her bf does auto work? Was the car brought to him that weekend for a repair or an estimate, or did he just happen to see the car parked somewhere?

Any chance u can explain who tammy g is and how she relates to mm couer de lion?
Did they know Maura in Amherst?
Why would her bf have seen the car?
Im not understanding something here, have you ever explained their relation to this case or how or why they may have seen her car?

It sounds like you might have some information that could be helpful here, any chance your gonna come out and tell us or do we have to find Tammy g to get that info? If someone happened to find Tammy would she have any idea what the hell they were talking about?

what cops did didn't do means nothing

call burlington pd and ask chief yourself

Was there possibly another witness who spoke to Maura that we don't know about or was LE lying to the media about someone saying Maura appeared intoxicated?

The 'Project Jason' website has a lot of the early articles listed on the MM thread, very interesting read.
In almost every article in the first couple weeks they make mention of a witness who spoke to Murray and said she appeared intoxicated:
"A witness told local police Murray appeared to have been intoxicated at the time of the crash"
" Murray was not injured in the accident. However, she was reportedly impaired due to alcohol consumption when she was seen by her car after her accident."
"Unhurt, but appearing to be intoxicated, she refused help from a motorist who offered assistance"
"A witness at the New Hampshire crash site said she appeared to be impaired by alcohol. Police have not provided information to support that"

As far as I know the SBD has always said, to the public at least, that she didn't appear to be intoxicated when he came across her. In those quotes it sure does sound like LE is talking about the SBD, saying he was a passing motorist who stopped to offer assistance.
Is it possible there was another witness who stopped and spoke to Maura that nobody is aware of?

The one thing that is different than SBD is in one article they specifically state that the "witness was on the scene when police arrived". Well that is the only mention of that that I've ever heard, and different that what they said about SBD. I tend to think that the article was just not accurate in its reporting, which is very common. We've never heard anyone else say anything about another person stopping to offer help. That makes no sense anyways; how could he have talked to her and still be on scene when police arrived? Did she vanish right in front of his eyes? They had to be talking about SBD and they were just wrong because he actually lived right there.

So they were talking about SBD; that means they were lying to the public about the witness who saw her intoxicated? They must be. That's pretty messed up if you think about it. Almost every article makes mention of this. You got a missing girl so you make sure to lie to every reporter to make her look drunk? Go so far as to make up a witness, or what a witness said, in order to make her look drunk. This was way back at the beginning when it was the HPD chief Williams who did most of the talking to reporters. The last thing that guy wanted was the public thinking that a young girl got abducted in his town. It's pretty bad that he felt the need to make Maura look bad, like she was some stupid drunk college girl. Worst part about it is that he was actually lying to the media about it. If there really were witnesses saying that then fine, it is what it is, but to make up a witness who said that is just wrong on several different levels.

One thing is clear here: the HPD had absolutely no problem lying when it came to this case, whether it be to the family or to the media, they had no problem lying and were not entirely honest. I wonder what else out of what they said is actually a lie?

Does anyone know of any NHSP that referenced this witness who saw her intoxicated? I'm not 100% here but I believe it was only HPD that made reference to this. I know that now scarinza says that she did not appear intoxicated to the witness.

textile strike 100 years ago

Saturn seen before it left mass. how could it not be seen? doesn't matter if cops saw it or know about it or care. cops don't matter.

bad thing what they said

bad thing they did

Couple q's couer de:
Why cAll Burlington PD and ask them? What dies Burlington have to do with this? Aren't we talking about Amherst when we are referencing damage done to her vehicle?
You obviously mean Burlington,vt not Burlington,ma correct?
I'm clearly missing something, why Burlington? I know she looked it up before she left but do you know something about Burlington that's relative here?

1 more: why did you say what cops did and didn't do means nothing? Do you really think that? Are you saying that in general or just in relation to the Amherst side of this investigation?

Generally what cops do and don't do in an investigation actually means a lot. Cops are very busy and have limited time and resources. They also have very specific procedures and ways of handling an investigation. Everything is done deliberately and for a specific purpose, definitely not at random. Doing random things without any purpose is not an effective investigation. A investigator is only going to do something if he thinks he will get a result that will further the investigation. If they know they won't get a result, or already know the result, they aren't going to take that action. Just knowing what LE does or doesn't do in an investigation can give you a pretty clear picture of where the investigation is heading and what they think happened.
Maybe in whatever your referencing what the cops did and didn't do means nothing, but in general it means a lot.

coeur de lion wrote:

Saturn seen before it left mass. how could it not be seen? doesn't matter if cops saw it or know about it or care. cops don't matter.

Obviously it was seen before leaving mass, like you said; how could it not be.
The question is: does anybody remember seeing it? Did anybody see who would know what they were looking at?

I take it your tryin to say that Tammy's bf saw the car before it left, right? Have you spoken to him personally?
Sounds like you think it would be worth tracking down Tammy's bf and seeing if he's willing to talk about what he saw. Is that a correct analysis?
Did you know Tammy and her nf or do you just know of them?

Did you know Maura??

burlington mass chief kent

cops do what they do, say what they say.

coeur de lion wrote:

bad thing they did

Again what are you referring to? Are you talking about then Lying to the media about a witness saying she appeared intoxicated or something else bad they did?
Not investigating vasi at all? Something else?
I'm not trying to get in your case in really tryin to understand what your talking about. It sounds like you know something about the Saturn before it left mass which could be very used information.

The way I'm seeing it is unless Tammy g was a good friend of Maura's, good enough to remember seeing her with an un-damaged car, then the car must have been damaged while it was still in Amherst. Why would anybody who didn't know her well be able to remember some random undamaged car? But if it was smashed up, then I could see it. If she brought the car to Tammy's bf's shop, then I could def see it.

It sounds like you have some information but you afraid to share it...either that or your just completely fucking with everybody.
What's the point of hinting at it and tryin to get people to figure it out, is that just for fun or something? If your posting about it and Hinting at it, then obviously you want people to know it. So why not just come out and say it? If your trying to get people to figure it out then you must want them to know right? Why don't you just come out and say it? You'll be the first person on topix with actual new information in years! Lol

bad things they said bad things

coeur de lion wrote:

burlington mass chief kent
cops do what they do, say what they say.

Burlington mass?? Interesting...how does Burlington mass fit into this picture? That's one town I've never heard referenced in regards to this case.

What would one ask chief Kent if they called? I must be missing something again here. You say call the police chief and ask yourself, well what the hell would we be asking him?
Why would he have any information in regards to mm?

bad things said done can't go back in bag

I want to explain to people that I do not endorse or enjoy talking about this, some things about this case are tugging at me. I have 5 years experience as a truck driver, delivering around the new england area. A quick run-down of my thoughts on the case.Please read on...
She wanted to feel good (opened the booze prematurely en-route of a pre-determined trip to VT). While driving 91N in VT and notable not taking 89N as a direct route, she was getting tired from the monotonous and plain views of 91N and decided to get off the highway to connect to Barre or Montpelier,VT via 302 westbound. Her judgement was hazed by her drinking, she mistakenly took exit 17 off 91N, Rte 302 Eastbound. Gps anyone? After driving aimlessly in the wrong direction, she over-corrected a corner on Route 112, hitting a tree and the snow-packed shoulder.The car oriented to the west in the eastbound lane per reports. She knew the car had damage and she would be in more trouble with police, etc..She then decided to take a chance at suicide by packing a rag into the exhaust pipe of her Saturn. Everybody knows in New england that exhaust systems are not air-tight in the salty and harsh enviroment as some internet posters elude. I remember reading about one fire officer's concern about the rag being stuffed into the exhaust and wanting to discuss it with a NH police chief. I'm a member of a fire department in NH and we're trained to look for clue at fires and signs of possible dangerous situations. Suicide or signal? I believe the family said she didn't contenplate suicide, the signal theory would be more consistant.
She was sitting in the car with her hoodie on, looking at her cellphone waiting for her time to go(man smoking caller referance here). She didn't notice any houses nearby and thought it was a good place to go unseen. The bus driver startled her and she dismissed him quickly (AAA story). She realized she would be found soon by the public and took a backpack with minimal provisions and jogged. A plowed highway could be run on, especially eastbound, where the chance of emergency vehicles encountering her may not be noticed. There is miles of nothing eastbound. She could also jump off the road in advance of a vehicle. Do you look for tracks when you drive? A man claimed he saw her running near 112 and 116. I believe she made her run to 116 and took one of the fire roads in the backside of the Federal Wildwood Campground. The area of this land is huge,the fire road would've been overlooked as it was farther east than all searches were conducted(publically documented). She had a flashlight from her car kit and her phone also could illuminate her way. The terrain is very secure and only snow-covered and would connect to the backside of Cannon Mountain. I don't believe Maura made it to any mountainscapes as her interests are said to be in. There are many trails in this area and few hunters, snowmobilers, fisherman to locate remains if she had rested there in the cold, waiting for the alcohol to wear off and succumbed to the elements alone. I'm sure she was upset about the situation, drastic situations call for drastic measures. Oh, and for the anti-suicide folks: She may have been signalling her run direction (East). Remember the car was pointed west, the tailpipe headed east. A perfect story for the sober morning when police ask her about why she wasn't at the scene: "I headed in the direction I signalled with the rag for help and stayed in the woods overnight to stay alive." BTW, WMUR has a link to the story and related favorite hiking spots in NH to the story, poor taste. http://www.wmur.com/-/9858568/12144976/-/73m3...
I hope this case is solved soon. I think she's in the woods near her run direction, not down a small road like some people contest. She was an athlete runner on a NH state maintained road, I'm sure she made the Federal Park fire trails off 112 and 116.