Maura Murray

Maruchan wrote:

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So, about this tailpipe thing. I did a search for 1996 Saturns like Maura's, and the tailpipe is clearly visible when you are looking at the back of the car - it is not hidden underneath like some cars. Since it was dark, the LE officer would have been shining his flashlight all around the car and would have illuminated the tailpipe without bending down. If he was looking for any kind of evidence around the car, he undoubtedly would have looked underneath the vehicle. All he had to do was bend down to see the inside of the tailpipe. He DID see the rag, so obviously it wasn't stuffed inside far enough to not be seen. The very fact that it WAS dark and that he had to use a flashlight would have made it easier to see the rag than daylight.
Here is a link to a tailpipe of a 1996 Saturn: http://static.cargurus.com/images/site/2009/1... It may disappear, just do a Google image search for a 1996 Saturn and you will find others.

Jenkins, you posted almost the same exact post about the rag in the tail pipe in early August. This was my response to it and something Orko posted then.

I suppose that's possible shack but everyone who saw the rag described it being way up there, meanin it's very unlikely he saw it without shining his flashlight up the muffler.
That is just a weird thing for a cop to do, very weird.
It's even weirder that he actually found something in the muffler.
How many times in a cops career does he find something in a muffler like that? Maybe Once? How many times Ina cops career does he feel the need to shine his light up a muffler? Maybe once?

Idk, but to me it looks like smith was looking for something that could potentially disable a vehicle, & it appears that he may have found it.

Could the rag itself be evidence of foul play? It's possible. It seems unlikely but it is possible. Gotta look at the big picture here; we got a young girl who is missing and quite possibly was abducted. We also have some evidence that indicates her car died before the corner, rather than her spinning out after the curve. So her car might have died and that could have caused the crash.
Also once fred n billy went to see the car it started up just fine after the rag was removed. People who responded to the scene questioned why she didn't just drive away, maybe because her car died on her coming into the corner so she didn't think it was going anywhere?

We got a missing girl who's car was found with a rag in her tailpipe. A rag can be used to disable a car. Her car very well may have been disabled by this rag. I just don't see how the rag can be written off as unimportant.

The craziest thing IMO is that Fred tried to explaIn away the one thing that could potentially indicate foul play. Whole thing is just weird, but then so is a lot of things in this case

Maruchan wrote:

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Jenkins, you posted almost the same exact post about the rag in the tail pipe in early August. This was my response to it and something Orko posted then.

Yea I made a similar post and nobody ever came up with anything close to explaining it. I'd say you came closest but still not quite adequately.

You are right that the saturns muffler isn't hidden beneath the muffler like on some cars but it's still really low to the ground, maybe a foot off the ground? The rag is described as being stuffed way up there. Yor not gonna see that unless you really get down on your knee in the snow and specifically shine your light into the muffler and look.
If he was just walking around the car shining his light he would have been shining it down and looking down, it's very unlikely your gonna accidentally see a rag that's way up the muffler, IMO.

BobJenkins-OG wrote:

I suppose that's possible shack but everyone who saw the rag described it being way up there, meanin it's very unlikely he saw it without shining his flashlight up the muffler.
That is just a weird thing for a cop to do, very weird.
It's even weirder that he actually found something in the muffler.
How many times in a cops career does he find something in a muffler like that? Maybe Once? How many times Ina cops career does he feel the need to shine his light up a muffler? Maybe once?
Idk, but to me it looks like smith was looking for something that could potentially disable a vehicle, & it appears that he may have found it.
Could the rag itself be evidence of foul play? It's possible. It seems unlikely but it is possible. Gotta look at the big picture here; we got a young girl who is missing and quite possibly was abducted. We also have some evidence that indicates her car died before the corner, rather than her spinning out after the curve. So her car might have died and that could have caused the crash.
Also once fred n billy went to see the car it started up just fine after the rag was removed. People who responded to the scene questioned why she didn't just drive away, maybe because her car died on her coming into the corner so she didn't think it was going anywhere?
We got a missing girl who's car was found with a rag in her tailpipe. A rag can be used to disable a car. Her car very well may have been disabled by this rag. I just don't see how the rag can be written off as unimportant.
The craziest thing IMO is that Fred tried to explaIn away the one thing that could potentially indicate foul play. Whole thing is just weird, but then so is a lot of things in this case

I was told by responders that they saw a rag in the tailpipe.They never stated it was way up there. They only stated that they saw a rag in the tailpipe.

citigirl wrote:

<quoted text>I was told by responders that they saw a rag in the tailpipe.They never stated it was way up there. They only stated that they saw a rag in the tailpipe.

Thank you! I believe you just solved this mystery. If several responders say they saw a rag in the tailpipe it can´t have been "way up there" after all.

hannah_b wrote:

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Thank you! I believe you just solved this mystery. If several responders say they saw a rag in the tailpipe it can´t have been "way up there" after all.

hannah I have stated this in the past.

Wowzer the real one wrote:

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Do we know for a fact that he kept everyone away from her vehicle or did he have them all back away from the curve? I think if he saw that there was no need for the ambulance(no driver) or FD(no leakage) then he did the only smart thing to do and that was to get everyone off of that sharp curve.
If you are familiar with the road you know that it is a very sharp curve and a very dangerous place to have vehicles and people stopped on it with not much room to get off the narrow road.

Responders were at the vehicle looking into the windows with a flaslight. According to responders they were told to move away from the vehicle.

citigirl wrote:

<quoted text>Did you post on Advocates forum? Thank you.

Oh hi citi. No, I never did post on Advocates forum. I was reading it though.
YVW :)

citigirl wrote:

<quoted text>hannah I have stated this in the past.

I know, but all of a sudden I saw this simple statement in a new light. Previously I have always thought of the two statements about the rag (clearly visible vs stuffed way up) as dichotomies, statements that are mutually exclusive. Like one party told the truth, the other is lying. Now I believe it may just have been two ways of describing the same thing. I believe it was visible and way up there, as in shoved way up but with one end visible. Sorry for rambling, probably not important.

amy researches wrote:

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Are you talking about AIM? Aol instant messenger? It was very easy to find people on there.

Hi Amy. I agree it's Very easy to find someone on AOL, instant messenenger IF you had their email address to start with. I had set my email to be hidden. My email was confirmed as blocked at one point, because they were showing up as visable and many posters were concerned about that. That first Instant message popped up in 2005 when it was still the old forum.

Just me--paris wrote:

<quoted text>Oh hi citi. No, I never did post on Advocates forum. I was reading it though.
YVW :)

But Just me - Paris, you did post on Advocate´s second forum! I clearly remember exchanging thoughts on the phone records as seen on ID show with you there.

hannah_b wrote:

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But Just me - Paris, you did post on Advocate´s second forum! I clearly remember exchanging thoughts on the phone records as seen on ID show with you there.

You're right, I do recall that now becuse of what you said. Yeah, one of my notebooks has a lot of info on those phone numbers we were all able to see by pausing. That was in 2009 as I recall. Thank you for reminding me.

Sorry Citi, I was on that forum for awhile and don't think I really posted that much.

Maruchan wrote:

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Jenkins, you posted almost the same exact post about the rag in the tail pipe in early August. This was my response to it and something Orko posted then.

Maruchan is exactly correct. This is a ridiculous back and forth. You don't know that he had to even bend over to see the rag. These are all your guesses and not even good, well thought out guesses.

Bill

Citi- did you ask the responders who said they saw the rag how they saw the rag? Meaning did they have to get down and look for it because they knew it was there or was it obvious?

And the best part is if Smith didn't see rag we would be hearing from Jenkins and Shack about how incompetent Smith was to NOT find the rag.

Bill

WTH-the-original wrote:

And the best part is if Smith didn't see rag we would be hearing from Jenkins and Shack about how incompetent Smith was to NOT find the rag.
Bill

The really bestest part of all is every single time jenkins posts some nonsense referencing statements like...

BobJenkins-OG wrote:

...but everyone who saw the rag described it being way up there,

Everyone.....Everyone......

Wait, Who is everyone Jenkins? You mean, everyone as in, NO ONE?

Because that is who said the rag was "way up there". No One.

This is exactly how you operate, you twist facts, embellish statements, and formulate theories based on these untrue facts and never said statements.

At least you are consistant, spinning and lying as usual.

You are ridiculous.

Let me help put this to rest once and for all.

The very infamous rag, that was stuffed in the more infamous tailpipe, was in fact 'placed' in the tailpipe, it was visible from the outside to anyone who was standing there looking at the rear of the car.

It was not hidden, it was not 'stuffed way up there'(jerkyjenkins), it was not 'wedged' it was not 'crammed', it was not 'lodged', it was not 'stuck', it was not surgically implanted', it was in fact,'placed' in the rear of the tailipe in a manner that could be seen easily.

There is no way the rag could have stalled the car. It would never have stayed where it was if the car had been started at all, it would have blown out.

I hope this helps, though I suspect in a few months jenkins will post something like...
...but everyone who saw the rag described it being way up there,.......

Such is life.

Ok, sorry lavoie described it as beings Stuffed way up there, I believe dick guy did as well.

Your twisting my words, and maybe I should have worded that a little different but really the only two people who ever saw it and spoke about the rag publicly, that I'm aware of, described it as being way up there.

That is why I asked citi what they said to her. Just because they all saw it doesn't mean that the rag was hanging out, That doesn't mean that at all. That just means they all saw it. If they knew it was there then they all would've looked at it, how often do you see a crashed car with a rag up it's tailpipe?
I'm talking about what was said publicly by people who saw it.
FrmLE- do you know of anyone who saw it and has spoken publicly that said it was hanging out of the muffler?

If it was hanging out the whole thing would make a lot more sense, but that's not how it was described. Are there other descriptions I'm unaware of?

FrmLE wrote:

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You are ridiculous.

like truly rediculous?

Hey fakeLE- are you sure it's not you twisting the facts? I'm going off what witnesses have said publicly, where the hell are you gettin your info?

Who ever said it was placed there? Who ever said it was hanging out?

Are there actually any witnesses who said that or are you just making shit up again?

Maybe I should've worded that a little differently, like "everyone who saw it and spoke publicly about it" but come on. Talk about twisting words and talking complete bullshit.

fakeLE really needs to learn that people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.