Maura Murray

BobJenkins-OG wrote:

Hey fakeLE- are you sure it's not you twisting the facts? I'm going off what witnesses have said publicly, where the hell are you gettin your info?
Who ever said it was placed there? Who ever said it was hanging out?
Are there actually any witnesses who said that or are you just making shit up again?
Maybe I should've worded that a little differently, like "everyone who saw it and spoke publicly about it" but come on. Talk about twisting words and talking complete bullshit.
fakeLE really needs to learn that people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Hmmmmmm. Seems like common sense that the reason Smith saw the rag, and others saw the rag would be because it was hanging out of the tailpipe. But that is just me. I am cursed with an overabundance of common sense. I mean as opposed to a scenario were Smith apparently always crawls around under cars looking for a rag stuffed up into exhaust systems of all the cars he comes across from people drinking and then running from their cars.

So having your story, and FrmLE's description, I'll believe FrmLE, simply because I find him knowledgeable, and not prone to flights of fantasy in his descriptions. Nor, does he seem to regenerate the same bizarre descriptions like you do wen you don't know the answer.

Its like I tell my family. When you go to a doctor with a headache, he doesn't start thinking tumor. He tells you to take a couple of aspirin. I mean, maybe its just a headache, the most common explanation. Jenkins wants to jump straight to tumor.

Again, Occam. The simplest explanation that explains a given scenario is likely the correct one.

Bill

If there's a witness that spoke about the rag and said that it was hanging out, I'd love to hear it.

I'd love to hear what they said to citi about the rag, I know they all saw it by that doesn't mean that it was hanging out.

Who else who saw the rag spoke publicly about it besides mike lavoie and dick guy? Both of them describe the rag being stuffed way up there, they say nothing about it hanging out.

I'd be glad to admit the rag could have been hanging out if there's any witness that supports that. That would make the whole thing make a lot more sense.
I'm sorry bill but it seem weird that you would believe some random guy on the Internet over witnesses who have spoken on record about it.

There's no debating that there are witnessss who describe it being way up there. If there are witnesses that describe it hanging out I'd believe that the rag was probably hanging out, at least some of it.

BobJenkins-OG wrote:

If there's a witness that spoke about the rag and said that it was hanging out, I'd love to hear it.

Are you really this thick headed? Smith described it as beng placed in the tailpipe, it was visible.

Should he have called in the CSI Forensic Team to take measurements as to how much of the rag was actually 'hanging out'? Use a set of calipers, "The rag was 3.552 millimeters outside of the tailpipe."

It was visible from the rear of the car. That's the fact jack.

BobJenkins-OG wrote:

There's no debating that there are witnessss who describe it being way up there.

Ok, describe what these witnesses mean by "way up there"? What does that really mean, how far is "way up" in the real world?

Perhaps to Jones "way up" means it was more inside the tailpipe thn outside thetailpipe, but perhaps to jenkns "way up" means it is crammed so far in that it is betwen the muffler and catalytic converter.

Please define "way up there" for us, will you?

While you are doin that I will offer than no matter how "way up there" it was, one thing is definite. The rag was clearly visible from the rear of the car without disassembling the exhaust system.

Ridiculous.

This is going to sound dumb, but I'll risk it again. Maura may have put that rag there to keep small animals or rodents from taking a warm spot in the tailpipe and possibly stuck up and in there.
A friend of mine is so worried about little critters that she even cuts the 6 pack binders into tiny plastic strips so that while the rummaging through our dumps, they wouldn't become stuck in one of six small cicles you will find as a plaster holder on 6 packs of anything. Heck 8 packs, lol

Anyway, if the rag was just placed in there, I could also mean she was just giving up. OR a sign that she needed help. I think she just needed help, but was seen walking away, and for good.

citi

Can you help to clarify something? If not, I will respect that. Here's my question

On Montel show, Montel mentions that Maura was seen walking away from her car.
A couple of other times I have read or heard that as well. What have you been told?

I know you've quoted that Maura was seen at the car 1-2 minutes before police came, so I don't mean that part, just the walking away part.

Thank you.

mcsmom wrote:

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I'm not sure exactly what you mean but I posted I got this from masoninblueFDL

Thank goodness you are back. I assume you didn't see my previous question so I'll ask it again (and again, and again...). Could you tell us who the haters (your words) are and what, why and who do you think they hate?

Thanks,
Bill

Just me--paris wrote:

<quoted text>
You're right, I do recall that now becuse of what you said. Yeah, one of my notebooks has a lot of info on those phone numbers we were all able to see by pausing. That was in 2009 as I recall. Thank you for reminding me.
Sorry Citi, I was on that forum for awhile and don't think I really posted that much.

When registering into this forum they asked for an email address. There was also a forum that wanted my password. I have in the past posted on the MM forum and here on topix.None of these forums have asked for my password. Altough I have viewed other forums the only other forum I tried to register into was Advocates forum. Passwords are confidential and should not be shared with others.

Just me--paris wrote:

This is going to sound dumb, but I'll risk it again. Maura may have put that rag there to keep small animals or rodents from taking a warm spot in the tailpipe and possibly stuck up and in there.
A friend of mine is so worried about little critters that she even cuts the 6 pack binders into tiny plastic strips so that while the rummaging through our dumps, they wouldn't become stuck in one of six small cicles you will find as a plaster holder on 6 packs of anything. Heck 8 packs, lol
Anyway, if the rag was just placed in there, I could also mean she was just giving up. OR a sign that she needed help. I think she just needed help, but was seen walking away, and for good.

No one has ever stated they saw Maura walking away. Where are you getting your info from?

BobJenkins-OG wrote:

Citi- did you ask the responders who said they saw the rag how they saw the rag? Meaning did they have to get down and look for it because they knew it was there or was it obvious?

Responders arrived on the scene and saw the rag in the tailpipe.

WTH-the-original wrote:

<quoted text>
Thank goodness you are back. I assume you didn't see my previous question so I'll ask it again (and again, and again...). Could you tell us who the haters (your words) are and what, why and who do you think they hate?
Thanks,
Bill

...." and God bless Mommy and Daddy, and Wowzer the real one, for she art thou leads us to Old Peter's Road".....

And if you see Eric, tell him I said hello.

hannah_b wrote:

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I know, but all of a sudden I saw this simple statement in a new light. Previously I have always thought of the two statements about the rag (clearly visible vs stuffed way up) as dichotomies, statements that are mutually exclusive. Like one party told the truth, the other is lying. Now I believe it may just have been two ways of describing the same thing. I believe it was visible and way up there, as in shoved way up but with one end visible. Sorry for rambling, probably not important.

I could be wrong but I believe it was Renner who stated the rag was stuffeded way up there. I spoke with responders in 2004 concerning the rag and not one of them stated the rag was stuffed way up there.

citigirl wrote:

<quoted text>I could be wrong but I believe it was Renner who stated the rag was stuffeded way up there. I spoke with responders in 2004 concerning the rag and not one of them stated the rag was stuffed way up there.

I think it's important to bear in mind Smiths comment to Sharon, regarding the rag in the tailpipe, he said "that's what MA people do".

Deductive reasoning tells us that not just MA people commit suicide, and not just MA people use whatever means available to warn other drivers of a disabled vehicle, so my gut tells me he was thinking of a rag fashioned in a means that he felt capable of doing the job Fred said it was intended to do. In other words a rag just placed in the tailpipe wouldn't have elicited the snide remark by him. It must have been somewhat of a snug placement.

amy researches wrote:

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Renner's blog is where I read it also.

Thank you Amy.

mcsmom wrote:

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I think it's important to bear in mind Smiths comment to Sharon, regarding the rag in the tailpipe, he said "that's what MA people do".
Deductive reasoning tells us that not just MA people commit suicide, and not just MA people use whatever means available to warn other drivers of a disabled vehicle, so my gut tells me he was thinking of a rag fashioned in a means that he felt capable of doing the job Fred said it was intended to do. In other words a rag just placed in the tailpipe wouldn't have elicited the snide remark by him. It must have been somewhat of a snug placement.

CS also told responders at the scene thats what people from MA do. Concerning the rag. He also stated that she probably went to visit a friend in the Mountain Lakes. I also found this statement to be rather interesting considering he claimed to believe he thought it was Fred driving the vehicle on this night.

mcsmom wrote:

<quoted text>
...." and God bless Mommy and Daddy, and Wowzer the real one, for she art thou leads us to Old Peter's Road".....
And if you see Eric, tell him I said hello.

Does Eric know Roo ? Lol

Roo who who you ask? I don't know you'll have to ask Whiston

JWB wrote:

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Does Eric know Roo ? Lol
Roo who who you ask? I don't know you'll have to ask Whiston

Why ask Whiston? He was never involved in the search for MM. Remember he stated it was his wife who worked at WP that supposedly gave him confidential info that he then posted on the forum.

citigirl wrote:

<quoted text>Why ask Whiston? He was never involved in the search for MM. Remember he stated it was his wife who worked at WP that supposedly gave him confidential info that he then posted on the forum.

Whiston is always saying that CM wants Roo back and nobody or most don't know who Roo is.

Citi- only trying to lighten things up a little so we don't get into the conversation about where Old Peters road is located.

But I would like to bring up a point about the dog through the glass door if I may.

If Fred was not involved with the search of the A fram and was actually in warren, then can we lety fred off the hook for causing the dog to go through the sliders?

JWB wrote:

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Whiston is always saying that CM wants Roo back and nobody or most don't know who Roo is.

Does Whiston know CM?