Maura Murray

BobJenkins-OG wrote:

Seems like the NHSP believes that a crime was committed here, the family believes she was abducted; seems like the only people who believe she's lost in the woods or a suicide are these random Internet posters, sometimes really makes me wonder why they're so adamant about trying to convince people she just got drunk and lost in the woods..why do they care so much to convince people of that? What do they have to gain? Why do they try to shoot down any discussion about foul play going so far as trying to ridicule people who mention it. Fortunately most people can easily see through their bullshit but it still begs the question of why. Why put so much time and effort into trying to convince people of this?

Jenky,

I am pretty sure having Fred Murray and the media coverage all over their behinds have helped and incentivized the police in following up every single lead and tip that has come in about this case.

But the lead investigator from the start of the case (Lt. Scarinza) has always said there is no evidence of foul play.

I still say the computer information that police obtained from maura's computer had a whole lot more on it (clues) then some mapquest directions to Burlington.

And if her computer did speak through what was discovered, the police have never made that info known to the public (and probably for a reason).

6000 hours, most investigated case in NH history?????

Makes me wonder why her last cell phone call was overlooked by LE in this historical investigation.....

You forum addicts are rediculous. So sad in the middle of the night calling out to talk to someone. Get a life for Chrissakes.

It's Strelzin not Strezlin. Used to train for Mtn. bike races with him and would like to add that you couldn't find a more decent Human on the planet to do his job.

BobJenkins-OG wrote:

<quoted text>
Ok citi, that's exactly what I always thought I was surprised when he said that. Although, he just said the FD looked in all directions, he didn't say how far. And he did say how they were searching for footprints, so idk. I found it interesting that he said that. How do you know that citi? You spoke to the first responders personally didn't you?
You must have listened to that interview on crimewire, what did you think of it?

Several of us personally spoke to a couple of the first responders. No I did not see the interview on crimewire.

Simply Sarcasm wrote:

This is completely off topic of Maura, but it is regarding the forum.
I've lived in Chicago my whole life: College in the city, work in the city. When my lil guy was born, I tried to stay in the city, but even in the best of neighborhoods, there is no 'backyard.' There is no acreage to speak of. At least, not in my income bracket! So I moved a coupla dozen miles south to the 'burbs. I love it out here - even have a whole couple acres!- and my lil guy does to.
Today, he asked if we could go on vacation and 'see a mountain.'(Something I've never seen, either).
Before I found this thread, the only thoughts I really had of MA & NH were bluebloods, accents, and boating. Then, that gradually broadened to include thoughts of the missing Maura Murray (missing, kidnapped, murdered). Now, after all I've heard from you guys, my first inclination was a trip out to NH to check out the mountains and the beautiful scenery you all talk about. You've made NH more to me than just words on a page - a locale where something terrible did happen to a young lady, whether of her own doing, that's unknown....
Thanks! You've opened up my perspective, and for that I'm grateful.

Although Mauras disappearance to our family is a tragic story the scenery in this area is absolutly beautiful. Going down 112 in the fall is full of color. In the winter when the trees and everything else is covered with snow the scenery is unbelievably beautiful. There are little country stores that as soon as you walk into them the people make you feel at home. My 2 favorite stores up there was owned by W and her husband on 112 and the Bath general store. Even though there has been a difference of opinion as to what happened to Maura these people have opened up there hearts to do what ever it took to help locate a missing person.

WTH-the-original wrote:

It has never been stated that she was in the woods, other than by you. It has been said repeatedly by myself and others that is ONE of the possibilities.
A three mile radius, how? There is so much unknown in the talk of the searches. Far more unknown, than known.
I won't bother going through the CCU and their charter again. We know that it isn't just murders that it investigates. Or, we should by now. Damn those investigators trying to dot those I's and cross all those t's in a missing person investigation. Wasting all that time when you know where she is.
Bill

When the hell did I ever say she was in the woods? I've repeatedly said I don't know where she is, I feel if you look at this truly objectively it points to her being abducted but I really don't know.
Peopl, fakeLE is a prime Example, has repeatedly stated that she wandered into the woods several miles from the accident scene. There are most certainly people who are trying to convince others of that.
As for the three mile radius that is what John Healy said, he said in the first week they had six k9 teams out there and extensively searched about a three mile radius from the crash site. He's a retired lieutenant from the NHSP.

And yes the ccu doesn't only investigate murders, it also investigates missing persons where foul play is believed to have happened. That means they don't investigate cases where they believe suicide or simply lost in the woods. If she gets found to be just lost in the woods they are gonna look really stupid for including her on that list, especially with all their crying about lack of funding and resources.
It's pretty clear that the NHSP believes a crime was committed in this case, just like the family does

Ridiculous wrote:

It's Strelzin not Strezlin. Used to train for Mtn. bike races with him and would like to add that you couldn't find a more decent Human on the planet to do his job.

Thanks for the spelling correction.
As for your other comment I have no doubt the guy is a good person, I don't think anyone on here has ever really said anything bad about him.

Orko Kringer wrote:

<quoted text>
Jenky,
I am pretty sure having Fred Murray and the media coverage all over their behinds have helped and incentivized the police in following up every single lead and tip that has come in about this case.
But the lead investigator from the start of the case (Lt. Scarinza) has always said there is no evidence of foul play.
I still say the computer information that police obtained from maura's computer had a whole lot more on it (clues) then some mapquest directions to Burlington.
And if her computer did speak through what was discovered, the police have never made that info known to the public (and probably for a reason).

So your thinking that the computer held evidence of suicide that they didn't tell the public about? What would be the purpose of that? Let's say the computer held a suicide note, why would possibly be the reason to hold that back? Wouldn't that make their job way easier? That would sure eliminate the need for 6,000 hours of murder investigation wouldn't it?
The fact is that early on they were implying that the email she left on top of her boxes was most likely a suicide note, we now know that it most certainly wasn't.
It looks to me like if there was a real suicide note you can be damn sure they would've told the public about it; remember that the only reason to hold something back is if it could harm a prosecution. If there was a suicide note then there would be no need for a prosecution, would there? Early on LE was trying to make people think she may have killed herself, I just can't see them holding back a suicide note from the public, certainly not the family.

We also know that they didn't follow up on every tip and lead, they didn't even investigate her final phone call to condo owner. 6,000 hours is a little more than simply following tips when they come in, especially considering that they've said that very little tips have come in.
6,000 hours looks more like they've prepared a murder prosecution against someone and are fully prepared to prosecute if her body gets found.

I bet that the NHSP has a damn good idea of what happened to her and who is responsible, but until they find her body they won't be able to do anything.

6,000 hours is way more than just going through the motions because they really believe she committed suicid

Maura's car is found half in the road, half off the road. She struggles to get out of her car, has to push against a snowpile to sqeeze herself out. SBD talks with her briefly and goes back home to call 911.

Everyone wonders why Maura would head to NH or Vt.

Police at UMASS made a copy of Maura's hard drive, and made a trip to NH to talk with state police there.
Did UMASS police bring another copy of the hard drive with them?

Renner says she may have been expecting, or at at least had looked into the effects of drinking on a fetus, on her computer.

Mcsmom now adds that a baby was found in the dumpster at UMASS. The thought of it has bugged me since I first noticed the post.
Something else too. The last call Maura made, or one of the last calls.
I recall how Sharon said she was sitting there with the cellphone bill, and decided to call some of the numbers herself. She had probably assummed that between two sets of police,(UMASS and NHSP), that somebody would have contacted the Salamones after some 8 months had gone by.

Why didn't the PI'S try, I wonder?

Police suggested that Maura was heading for a party. At what point was that indroduced? I think it's important to know the timing of that belief.

She had been to Goshen, NH just one month prior, to celebrate New Years Eve. Maybe someone from that lot was expecting her?

Just thoughts to ponder, nothing else.

BobJenkins-OG wrote:

<quoted text>
So your thinking that the computer held evidence of suicide that they didn't tell the public about? What would be the purpose of that? Let's say the computer held a suicide note, why would possibly be the reason to hold that back? Wouldn't that make their job way easier? That would sure eliminate the need for 6,000 hours of murder investigation wouldn't it?
The fact is that early on they were implying that the email she left on top of her boxes was most likely a suicide note, we now know that it most certainly wasn't.
It looks to me like if there was a real suicide note you can be damn sure they would've told the public about it; remember that the only reason to hold something back is if it could harm a prosecution. If there was a suicide note then there would be no need for a prosecution, would there? Early on LE was trying to make people think she may have killed herself, I just can't see them holding back a suicide note from the public, certainly not the family.
We also know that they didn't follow up on every tip and lead, they didn't even investigate her final phone call to condo owner. 6,000 hours is a little more than simply following tips when they come in, especially considering that they've said that very little tips have come in.
6,000 hours looks more like they've prepared a murder prosecution against someone and are fully prepared to prosecute if her body gets found.
I bet that the NHSP has a damn good idea of what happened to her and who is responsible, but until they find her body they won't be able to do anything.
6,000 hours is way more than just going through the motions because they really believe she committed suicid

Jenky,

IMHO, I don't think an investigator would release a suicide draft/note on someone to the public if they have never recovered the body and don't have 100 percent proof that is what happened.

That would be the same thing as an investigator saying we know such and such murdered Johnny ... but we don't have all the proof yet. Just trust us, he is guilty.

You have to have the actual proof in hand (body found and autopsy done), then you release what you know to the public and at that time release any suicide draft or note that you found.

Now for investigators to be aided along in finding the truth, it does make sense for them to release certain info to the public like maura having mapquest directions somewhere.

If a family member or friend, came forward and said yeah maura likes this specific hiking trail in Vermont, then investigators would be aided along in getting a step closer to finding maura.

But releasing a sucide note or draft and not having an actual body is getting ahead of the investigation and opening up a pandora's box (when media and family are watching you and quick to criticize your every move).

If maura turns out to have been abducted and killed as an investigator you would be hammered for being so narrow-minded in your investigation.

And if family/media can prove that you mis-stepped and failed to follow up certain things because it didn't fit your suicide theory, you would be out of a job.

Hiked Mt. Mansfield today in honor of Maura. After the " chin", II now understand why Maura gave Fred a celebratory Long Trail.

mcsmom wrote:

Hiked Mt. Mansfield today in honor of Maura. After the " chin", II now understand why Maura gave Fred a celebratory Long Trail.

That's awesome. I would love to do that.

mcsmom wrote:

JWB....I just got out of bed solely to write this post to you.
You are a very special person, and I'm so sorry this is a difficult time for you. Keep looking for Maura.
It helps.

Thank you MCSMOM- just read your post. I appreciate your kind words.

citigirl wrote:

<quoted text>What the hell are you talking about? How much did it cost you to put up a poster? I have put up money from my own pocket and helped in the search for Maura from March 2004 until June 2007.My out of the pocket cost has been into the thousands. Although it was not easy I find it was money well spent to help find a missing relative. Although I have never met Wowzer I believe she/him have searched for Maura. At what date did you become involved in the search for Maura?

Never mind then- I thought maybe there were posters available that were better than the printout I put up. My post had nothing to do with cost at all. I think you mis understood me. I was only offering to help in some way.

Do you truly believe that? Do you think your looking at this objectively?
I can't see how that makes very much sense.
Early on in the investigation LE made damn sure to tell the public they thought she might have been suicidal, going so far as to imply the email that was on top of her boxes was some sort of suicide note. I can't see them not releasing a real suicide note if they found one on her computer, at least telling people that they did find one. Judging by what they said early on in the investigation I can not see them holding that back.
Also they've investigated 6,000 hours!! That is well beyond just going through the motions or following leads because they had to.
Once they had like 2,000 hours in they were beyond losing their jobs for not investigating properly, would you not agree with that? Nobody can get fired if they put thousands of hours into investigating something and they were wrong. They can only get fired if they didn't do a real investigation; 2,000 man hours is more than enough by anybody's standard, would you not agree? Nobody can get fired, nobody can get sued if they put in 2,000 hours, that is a real investigation. Nobody can get fired for being wrong, only for not doing anything.
They obviously need to dot all their i's but come on, 6,000 hours is way beyond just covering their asses, way, way beyond that.
If it turns out suicide this would be the most investigated suicide of all time, well probably, considering its the most investigated case in NH then it probably would be the most investigated suicide anywhere ever,
Even with just 2,000 hours they can't get hammered for not investigating enough. Any reasonable person would be able to look at that and say: "ok, they found a suicide note on her computer but still investigated for 2,000 hrs just to be sure" that is reasonable, that makes sense.
It makes a hell of a lot less sense to continue investigating for 4,000 more hours when you can't find any evidence of wrong doing and have a suicide note. Shouldn't the public be pissed about them wasting their resources?? Theres always complaints about funding and what not, couldn't the public be just as pissed to find out that they're wasting that much time and resources to investigate a suicide?? If a suicide note ever came out they would look really bad for wasting so much time a resources.
Also it just makes no sense that they wouldn't tell the family about a suicide note if it existed, wouldn't they want the family off their asses? If there was a suicide note the family has a right to know, as this wouldn't or couldn't possibly be used in any sort of prosecution. Also the family probably wouldn't critisize them quite as much if they knew she probably did kill herself.
During the court case wouldn't the judge have to release this to the family??
It makes absolutely no sense that the family wouldn't be told about a suicide note, none. Do you realize how much easier the NHSP's lives would be if there was a note?
They've said repeatedly that there is no evidence of foul play, they've also said repeatedly that there was no suicide note found so that argument doesn't really make much sense.
Remember, just a few thousand hours would be more than enough, particularly If they had a suicide note, there is no way anybody can get fired if they investigated for a few thousand hours.
But they didn't do that, they've investigated 6,000 hours, most investigated case in Nh, according to the murder prosecutor. That looks like they truly think a crime was committed and are investigating it as such.
Murder police are not gonna put in 6,000 hrs into a case that they feel is going nowhere, especially with a suicide note. Not gonna happen.
It looks to me like they have real murder prosecution lined up.
I think we can be reasonably confident that no note was found on her computer. I don't see how anybody can look at this case objectively and think they did find a note, that makes no sense at all to me.

How could LE possibly hold a suicide note back from the family?
That goes against everything they've said, particularly in the court case, about needing to hold info back. The only reason they can keep info from the family, according to the court, is because it can damage a potential murder prosecution. A suicide note, or draft, can not possibly do that. It is illegal for them to hold something like that back.

There is no way there was a suicide note found on that computer, they implied that a printed email was a suicide note! They obviously would have said they found one if they did, they're gonna imply a printed email is a suicide note and then hold back that they found a real one?

Also, what would a suicide note be doing on her computer anyways? How would she be able to print it when she's in another state?

The theory that her compute held a suicide note just holds no water IMO

jenky,

And they have put in 6,000 hours. So why are we no closer to solving this case if they have a suspect?

One thing you aren't counting, is that very early on the police had major issues with the murray family.(this comes from accounts of the family themselves).

In fact the initial interviews with maura's sister and Maura's boyfriend did not leave the police feeling like they were being told everything. The interviews left a cloud of suspicion.

If you have suspicions and they are coming from the family themselves, are you really going to share things with them when you come across information/evidence.

Fred pushed the suicide theory to the police intially not the other way around.

And you see how Fred has made the police look like liars since. Fred has completely back-tracked his own theory and instead turned it around and said police are making it up.

Wouldn't he do the same thing if police released a draft of a suicide letter (as an example). Fred and family would explain that thing away to the media just like they have the note that WAS found on maura's packed boxes and once again the police would be made out to be fools if they had gone public with it initally.

If there was a draft of a suicide note or a handful of drafts found on her computer, that even still doesn't prove she killed herself.

She could've had intentions of taking her own life and still ran into foul play before she had the opportunity to act herself.

As for the goshen nye party that's something I've always felt may have significance since I first heard it. Interestingly I only recently heard about that, within like the past year.
I don't recall there ever being any talk about Maura spending nye in NH on the original forums. in fact, early on on the MM site I remember asking what she did NYE and I don't recall there ever being an answer. I find it highly interesting that the family definitely knew she spent NYE in NH and decided not to share it with the forum. Is there some significance to that fact? Is there a reason they didn't want the public knowing that she partied in NH for new years?

Could it have been someone from this party she was going up to meet in NH? That would make sense, if you factor in her travelling with or netting someone in NH her not telling anyone makes a hell of a lot more sense. She wouldn't need to tell anyone else, she would've told the other person, if you know what I'm saying.

This is obviously wild speculation but perhaps she met a guy at the party who got her pregnant? It was like 5 weeks after NYE, wouldn't that be about how long it takes many girls to notice they're pregnant? Like 4-5 weeks? This would explain the effects on fetus' search found on her computer. Perhaps this guy wasn't very happy with the fact that she was pregnantc maybe had a wife or was just crazy in general? Also possible he's a perfectly nice guy an she never made it to meet him and he hast come forward out of fear he'll be pegged as a murderer. I could see someone maybe not going to police if the police didn't know about him and he had nothing to do with it. At best being the target of a murder investigation is gonna be a pain in the ass.

I've often wondered in the past year if the party in goshen is the key to solving this whole thing. Hard to say for sure at this point but definitely a possibility. It really would make sense that she was plannin in meetin someone. I feel like she must've been plannin on meeting someone, who was gonna pay for her hotel? She was searching for a condo, not cheap motels. You can barely find a condo you can stay in for one night with 280. If she was plannin on laying and staying by herself I find it highly unusually that she would be looking for a condo, especially how everyone described her as being particularly frugal. Sounds like some dude was like "find a nice condo, I'll lay for it, you just bring the booze"

To me it's very interesting that she partied in NH on NYE, I can't believe the family didn't want that family known to the public early on. Did LE tell them to keep that close or did they have their own reasons for that?

BobJenkins-OG wrote:

How could LE possibly hold a suicide note back from the family?

Jenkins - I think you sometimes try to warp LE's actions to prove your point. You never look at any other possiblities accept whatever "fact" you are trying to create. Maybe when LE finally took the PC back after it was 100 days in family possession they noticed that the PC was turned on numerous times (after the disappearance) and someone accessed the same documents that LE did. Why would they need to tell family about the note?

Do you really think family or PI's never turned on MM's PC? The girl is missing in the woods and could be in someone's basement held as prisoner and family never turned on the PC? Do you think maybe if MM just randomly left to go to NH that maybe she had an internet friend? Don't you think that would be the first place family checked.

What would help more turning on a PC or putting a poster on a telephone pole? I am under the personal assumption and strongest opinion that the PC was looked at by family.