Maura Murray

Orko Kringer wrote:

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Jenky,
As far as maura leaving her phone at the dorm party (if that is true) wasn't it already established that it was her father's cell phone that was used in the early hours to call billy?
Also on your point about maura being careful to cover her communication.
I agree that having a shared phone plan with your boyfriend would be great reason to get a hold of another phone so boyfriend doesn't see.
However, I keep going back to the computer.
In any scenario, maura would have no reason to believe her computer was going to be seized by police.
Lets say she was pregnant by some mystery man who arranged to meet her in new hampshire and kill her (to take care of the issue).
Maura would think she was just leaving to meet up with this guy with the full expectation that she was returning to campus (she wouldn't know he was plotting her death).
So maura's computer info wouldn't have been hidden. If maura returned from the trip. No one was going to be banging on her dorm room door to seize her computer. She had no foresight in the matter to hide email, instant message or other forms of conversation.

Yea but who really communicates and sets up visits using the computer? Especially in 04. Why would she be im'ing him? That likely wikldbe exchanged phone numbers not im monikers.

If this guy did exist and they communicated it was likely over a phone, and very possibly not the phone billy paid for.
And what do you think she's gonna use her prepaid phone that billy doesn't know about to call him? Of course she used her dads phone

amy researches wrote:

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Somebody throws peanuts at me no matter what I post. I'm saving the peanuts for wowzer so she can feed her squirrels this winter. I'm up to about 947 so the squirrels should be nice and fat.:-)

Thanks Amy!! I don't have the time to post here as often as I did in the past so my peanuts were getting a little low. My squirrels will be fat and sassy this winter. Thanks for sharing.:)

For Maura.

http://flic.kr/ps/2m5Nn9

Shack wrote:

Wonder if French Pond was ever pumped during any of the searches. It is only 30 acres with depth of 10 - 20 feet. I wonder because SBD drove that road to search, and it is open in winter for bob houses.

Just guessing but I would have searched that road first too because many people from MA and other states own homes around that pond and in that area. Common sense would tell me that there would be a good chance that maybe the driver had a second home there and walked back to their house.
Why would they drain the pond? It was frozen solid in Feb.

Hold on, it was a can now? Everybody always said it was a bottle, that's what scarinza said it was and I believe smith mentions it being a bottle in either his report or somewhere else.
I always thought it was a diet coke bottle that smelled strong of an alcoholic beverage and it was found under the car after the car was towed.
Pretty sneaky of her throwing it under the car like that, he might've never noticed it.

So citi now Yur saying it was a coke can? Where did the info about the twizzlee come from? Was it ever in the media? Was that something one of the first responders told you?
How come you never said that it was a can before? Have you ever said that? Not that it really matters whether it's a can or borrow I'm just wondering because it's always been said to be a bottle

bob jenkins...doesn't matter whether it was bottle or can...not one of the 5 houses saw her drinking anything and none of the 5 houses saw Maura running.
(at minimum none of the 5 house/so-called witnesses
saw anything, or know anything)
I would start looking at all the flat-landers who might use French Pond for ice fishing.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search...

5:02 by Scoops: go to cached page to read his whole comment. He mentions the appearance of wine in the car, the ceiling inside.....

HERE"S PART OF HIS POST
From the five-part series done on the Maura Murray case by Maribeth Conway (a journalist who had access to both Fred murray and family as well as the actual police officers who dealt with the murray case) had this to say in her article

"the box (of franzia wine) was damaged, perhaps in the accident, and reddish spots resembling wine were found on the road, according to investigator John Healy. Sgt. Smith (responding officer who dealt with maura's car) later recovered a coke bottle that contained a "red liquid" with a strong alcoholic odor. None of the other bottles of alcohol that maura had bought in amherst were found in the car."

BobJenkins-OG wrote:

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I understand what your saying about the potential for them being in denial. That is certainly possible, no one wants to believe their family member likes themselves.
But on your other point I'm gonna have to disagree.
If she was abducted then she's no longer alive. I can see them being very concerned about how she is remembered, which is exactly what's going on in this case. They want her to be remembered as the star athlete sweetheart girl, not a girl who stole a CC and cheated on her BF. nobody wants that to be their dead and missing family member's legacy. Also, once someone's dead everyone that knows them only thinks of their food qualities, that's natural.
Orky- your not actually trying to say that you think that her family truly thinks that she killed herself are you? Do you really think that?

Jenky,
the family took the defensive (maura's image) stance from very early on.
And very early on a shift was made by family towards abduction (not abduction and murder).

They were all about urgency and police getting out there because someone took maura ... Yet at the same time, they were spinning maura (sorry no other way to put it) to the public in a certain fashion.

From everything I have read there was tons of conflict between investigators and family early on. Investigators did not feel like they were getting the full story of what was known, particularly from Billy himself and maura's older sister Kathleen.

the dorm room incident is a great example.

FACT: police investigators and billy discover note in maura's room on her bed (With packed boxes)

Police release statement about note.

Billy (whom IMO would've been asked to explain the note to help the investigation along) comes out publically with his mom and says that THERE WAS NO NOTE.

Now either police are making up the fact that a note was discovered or billy and his mother are intentionally mis-leading because they could've easily said yes there was a note (when they went public with it) and it was police who just interpretated the note's meaning wrong.

Instead, Sharon is quoted word for word to the media as saying "there was no note."

One or the other has to be true 1. Police are flat out lying. 2. Sharon and billy are misleading public/media.

What other scenario could there be in this instance?

BobJenkins-OG wrote:

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Yea but who really communicates and sets up visits using the computer? Especially in 04. Why would she be im'ing him? That likely wikldbe exchanged phone numbers not im monikers.
If this guy did exist and they communicated it was likely over a phone, and very possibly not the phone billy paid for.
And what do you think she's gonna use her prepaid phone that billy doesn't know about to call him? Of course she used her dads phone

Jenky,

I have two issues here.

First, way too much activity was taking place in the hours before maura went missing for me to believe that she was meeting someone.

I don't believe IMO from looking at what is known, that maura had selected a final destination until a short time before she left.

Phone records show a flurry of calls on her normal cell phone at that time plus there was computer activity as well. Again, she would have no foresight to think that she had to worry about something on her computer being found (if she was going to meet someone).

And finally, maura talked to her older sister every single day. and sister's would share info concerning their own relationships.

If maura was truely done with Billy and ready to move on to a new guy for instance, I have no reason in the world to come up with that she would keep that from someone she talked to every day.

And her sister would not keep that info quiet to this day knowing the kind of torment her own family has gone through trying to find maura.

That is the biggest reason, I feel confident enough to say there was no mystery man.

Wowzer the real one wrote:

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Just guessing but I would have searched that road first too because many people from MA and other states own homes around that pond and in that area. Common sense would tell me that there would be a good chance that maybe the driver had a second home there and walked back to their house.
Why would they drain the pond? It was frozen solid in Feb.

How many times have we talked about this. The ponds are frozen solid. The ground is also frozen solid. She wasn't dumped in a body of water and she couldn't have been buried.

Bill

Good points Orko.
Sharon took on the position of a "spokesman", so to say. Things that were Quoted by Sharon, were hopefully word for word whenever she repeated something. She seemed to do most of the speaking on behalf of her son.
And as we all know, that can be misleading sometimes, and through no fault of her own (as in bad intentions). I feel Sharon to be sincere and a wonderful person. It's just, well, we can be biased and come to conclusions that do not reflect what the other has felt/said/thought. And did she have the whole complete picture. I think not. She clearly adored Maura trhough and knew her son Loved her very much.

WTH-the-original wrote:

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How many times have we talked about this. The ponds are frozen solid. The ground is also frozen solid. She wasn't dumped in a body of water and she couldn't have been buried.
Bill

I know this is true. And it's a fact that most abductions end in sorrow. But sometimes a person is kept for awhile, and put somewhere later.

At 5:09, again from Scoops:

Here is an excerpt from an interview he did with Lt. Scarinza, a retired cop who did work on the maura murray case and was around for the inventory of what was found in maura's car.


Lt. Scarinza

The car Maura was driving at the time was registered to her father, Fred. Haverhill P.D. tried to contact him early on Tuesday, but only got the answering machine. In the meantime, the police obtained a search warrant to open the car and examine the contents. Inside they found a box of wine, a book about the dangers of the White Mountains (Not Without Peril), and a receipt from a liquor store.

"She had purchased Kahlua, wine, and a six pack of Seagrams. The box had splashed all over the car. The bottle of kahlua was not there."

Shack wrote:

bob jenkins...doesn't matter whether it was bottle or can...not one of the 5 houses saw her drinking anything and none of the 5 houses saw Maura running.
(at minimum none of the 5 house/so-called witnesses
saw anything, or know anything)
I would start looking at all the flat-landers who might use French Pond for ice fishing.

Hey Shack. Have any names you want to mention? Do they know nothing? Or, are they just not going to get involved?

Funny, after all these years when you were accusing locals, now you have a different "theory"? Maybe it was a flatlander?

More backwards logic huh? Yes, please ignore any evidence that doesn't fit in with your view of the world, according to Shack. Because no one saw her drinking, she couldn't have drunk anything? Your probably right, all that alcohol must have been transported there by aliens. I suppose the car crash isn't any indicator. I suppose her disappearance wasn't from running from the crash but transported by aliens also.

Come on back Shack, everyone misses your taught, well thought out logical writings. We yearn to hear you latest, brilliant thoughts on who is guilty in this case. We need you to name more names, bring others under suspicion. We need more of your cogent, well thought out stories on why Maura was a saint and couldn't have been drinking while driving. We want to hear more about how much you feel for everyone. All very useful stuff. I want others to know about your contributions to this forum. Please, enlighten us.

Bill

Notice how it does say Maura bought the wine,(Kahlua, and a 6 pack of Seagrams)

I guess we can safely say that the wine was NOT from the party on Saturday night. That is, unless she had bought the wine and dropped it off somewhere. She DID go back to the dorm after the liquor store and we know this because a dorm mate saw her leave after the timestamp on the receipt. but then again, the correct time may have been "off" as documented on the receipt.
There seems to be ATM footage just before the purchase, but police never released those pictures.

Here is the two different quotes from Lt. Scarinza (made at different times) concerning the note found in maura's dorm room on top of her packed boxes.

These two quotes caused all kinds of controversey.

Jenky ... I am trying to see where he implies suicide note

Also, if you really look at both of the quotes you can deduct that although it sounds different, he is actually saying the same thing here and not contradicting himself.

And to all of this Sharon has come out and said there was no note.

Scarinza told WCVB-TV:

"[She] left a personal note to her boyfriend on top of the boxes."

Scarinza in a released statement on a different date:

"putting everything neatly in boxes and putting all the boxes on her bed along with a personal note she had recently received from her boyfriend."

just me wrote:

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I know this is true. And it's a fact that most abductions end in sorrow. But sometimes a person is kept for awhile, and put somewhere later.

Let assume that this is true, in this case. You say "awhile". Was she kept alive for months? If it wasn't months then the ground was still frozen and the waters solid. How often has a kidnapped person been held for days, even weeks? I know of maybe two or three times that I have read about. If she was killed shortly after the abduction which happens most of the time according to FBI statistics, usually within hours. Where did they hold her body for months before they could bury or otherwise dispose of her?

Bill

WTH-the-original wrote:

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How many times have we talked about this. The ponds are frozen solid. The ground is also frozen solid. She wasn't dumped in a body of water and she couldn't have been buried.
Bill

It's been talked about many times.Sooner or later people get it if it's said enough times. But not always. I think this might be one of those "not always" times.

WTH-the-original wrote:

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Let assume that this is true, in this case. You say "awhile". Was she kept alive for months? If it wasn't months then the ground was still frozen and the waters solid. How often has a kidnapped person been held for days, even weeks? I know of maybe two or three times that I have read about. If she was killed shortly after the abduction which happens most of the time according to FBI statistics, usually within hours. Where did they hold her body for months before they could bury or otherwise dispose of her?
Bill

Bill,
I was vague on purpose. It's true that an abducted person will be history within 3 days, if not immediately. But some people wait for the right time to venture out with remains. And some will just keep them inside their own homes for lack of courage. Like the man who killed his mother and kept cashing her social security checks for years. They found the woman in the home they shared, when he got reported. Not a good example for MM abduction theory, but then, I've never really had one. I don't know how, but I feel she ran with the intent of never looking back.

Shack wrote:

bob jenkins...doesn't matter whether it was bottle or can...not one of the 5 houses saw her drinking anything and none of the 5 houses saw Maura running.
(at minimum none of the 5 house/so-called witnesses
saw anything, or know anything)
I would start looking at all the flat-landers who might use French Pond for ice fishing.

Are you for real? Now you want to start looking at all the flatlanders? That takes some nerve being you are from MA.
All these years you've blamed the locals by name and dragged the people in this area through the mud while calling them names and saying disgusting things about them and NOW you want to start looking at the flatlanders? Really?
Absolutely disgraceful. Have you no shame at all?