Maura Murray

BobJenkins-OG wrote:

<quoted text>
Yea but who really communicates and sets up visits using the computer? Especially in 04. Why would she be im'ing him? That likely wikldbe exchanged phone numbers not im monikers.
If this guy did exist and they communicated it was likely over a phone, and very possibly not the phone billy paid for.
And what do you think she's gonna use her prepaid phone that billy doesn't know about to call him? Of course she used her dads phone

In 2004, chat rooms were super popular, but I don't think Maura would do an up and at 'em for just any ole "joe"

just me wrote:

<quoted text>Bill,
I was vague on purpose. It's true that an abducted person will be history within 3 days, if not immediately. But some people wait for the right time to venture out with remains. And some will just keep them inside their own homes for lack of courage. Like the man who killed his mother and kept cashing her social security checks for years. They found the woman in the home they shared, when he got reported. Not a good example for MM abduction theory, but then, I've never really had one. I don't know how, but I feel she ran with the intent of never looking back.

She may have. My point was that a dead body is not an air freshener. You don't keep it around without attracting suspicion. It also doesn't get easier to transport as it decomposes. You would have had to have her around for months before you could dispose of her in water or to bury her considering the state of the ground and the water. How does one pull that off without anyone getting suspicious?

Bill

Orko Kringer wrote:

<quoted text>
Jenky,
we do see differently on this one.
if you have a loved one who is missing that is potentially suicidal and you don't come to terms with that, IMO, you would turn hard to the person's positive qualities to explain away and deny the fact that underneath, there may have been something very wrong in this person's life.
Conversely, If you have a loved one who goes missing and you are CERTAIN 100 percent that this person was abducted, IMO, the last thing to come to your mind would be spinning the person to the public in a strict postive way.
You want truth and nothing but it. You don't want to confuse anyone (investigators, media, searchers) because you know time is not on your side and you must find out what happened.
All the fluff stuff about protecting image would be out the window
if in order to do so (provide a certain image of someone).. you gave out mis-representing info about the missing person that not only builds up new walls from an investigative point and creates new suspicisions but it also creates confusion and creates more obstacles in the path of getting to the truth.
All of this is my opinion with the full understanding that there is no proper set of rules to follow if you have someone up and go missing on you.

Good Post - Thanks for the quote.

Orko Kringer wrote:

<quoted text>
Jenky,
we do see differently on this one.
if you have a loved one who is missing that is potentially suicidal and you don't come to terms with that, IMO, you would turn hard to the person's positive qualities to explain away and deny the fact that underneath, there may have been something very wrong in this person's life.
Conversely, If you have a loved one who goes missing and you are CERTAIN 100 percent that this person was abducted, IMO, the last thing to come to your mind would be spinning the person to the public in a strict postive way.
You want truth and nothing but it. You don't want to confuse anyone (investigators, media, searchers) because you know time is not on your side and you must find out what happened.
All the fluff stuff about protecting image would be out the window
if in order to do so (provide a certain image of someone).. you gave out mis-representing info about the missing person that not only builds up new walls from an investigative point and creates new suspicisions but it also creates confusion and creates more obstacles in the path of getting to the truth.
All of this is my opinion with the full understanding that there is no proper set of rules to follow if you have someone up and go missing on you.

Another point to add. If you believe your daughter is abducted when on TV you try to appeal to the kidnapper because they are in control.

MM's family when on TV always tried to plea with her. In my opinion they thought she was always in control of her own destiny.

BobJenkins-OG wrote:

<quoted text>
LE must Have looked into the goshen angle, but clearly they're not sharing any findings with us.

Jenkins in 2004 if MM made any reservation she would need to use a Debit or Credit Card. This would be easy to track. She would also need directions to travel where she put the address to where she was going on map quest.

I don't think for a second LE or family had no idea where she was going.

You want another hint - The lady who ran that rental in VT that was contacted by Sharon in the fall of 2004. Do you think the PIs or LE wouldn't interview her before that if they had no idea where she was going?

She had phone records to show where she called - CC info to prove reservation info - and map quest info. I think it is safe to say they knew where she was going.

BobJenkins-OG wrote:

Orky-
What do you mean why they spin from Sharon? Whether she was killed or killed herself I think Sharon and the rest of the family were very concerned, probably a little too concerned, with mauras public image. They really tried hard to maintain her "all-american" image. The reason the family might have been so concerned about that could be because they think she was killed. That would mean they think she's dead, they were concerned about her legacy so to speak. They wanted her to be remembered as the good person that she was and how they thought about her, not remembered for the stupid mistakes that's she made before she went missing.

Jenkins - I'm in agreement with Orko in regards to Sharon. I do believe Sharon loved MM very much. I also believe that she loved her son more.

I think Sharon was afraid that Billy would be blamed for MM killing herself. So she was there to make sure she told people they were set to get married.

Why was she on the ID show? Billy moved on and it wouldn't help Billy's new GF's relationship with her mother-in-law if she was on TV telling the world how much she loved MM. It would send the wrong message that Billy still can't get over it. I think if Billy didn't go on the ID show than there was no reason for Sharon to. The only reason why she went on is to make sure the world knew that Billy treated MM well.

Whats a flatlander?

Orko Kringer wrote:

<quoted text>
As far as maura leaving her phone at the dorm party (if that is true) wasn't it already established that it was her father's cell phone that was used in the early hours to call billy?

If you look at the phone records in the Early morning of the crash at UMASS:

There is a 11 minute call at 5:36AM

The next call is at 5:49AM. The newspaper says she called Billy at 4:49AM - which I do believe is accurate if you go by the time difference in OK. Billy would have no way of knowing if MM made another call at 5:36AM unless he looked at the phone records.

Immediately into the call with Billy another party calls the cell phone. We know its not Billy calling so who was the other party on the phone?

I think it was FM calling the insurance company to verify coverage and find out where to take the car and how to get a rental. There aren't any other calls long enough in the morning to be a call to an insurance agent. FM says he woke at 10:00AM and MM at 10:30AM the next call is at 11:30 AM for like 5-6 minutes.

Don't be a dumbasss.

Google It wrote:

Don't be a dumbasss.

I did before asking.. All I got was a famous band & some stuff from the Highlander movie.. I have good stuff to add to the discussion but I cant post without trolls bothering everyone else.. Im not calling you one cus common sense would tell someone to google it, but I wanted to ask a real northerner cus at first I thought it was a road or store..

I wasnt being rude, it was an honest question..

Emmett Dove wrote:

Whats a flatlander?

It is a denigrating term that some from NH use to talk about people not used to the mountains. Referring to people from MA, CT, RI usually. Pointing out again, that it usually is used as an insult?

Bill

Lighthouse 101 wrote:

<quoted text>
Jenkins in 2004 if MM made any reservation she would need to use a Debit or Credit Card. This would be easy to track. She would also need directions to travel where she put the address to where she was going on map quest.
I don't think for a second LE or family had no idea where she was going.
You want another hint - The lady who ran that rental in VT that was contacted by Sharon in the fall of 2004. Do you think the PIs or LE wouldn't interview her before that if they had no idea where she was going?
She had phone records to show where she called - CC info to prove reservation info - and map quest info. I think it is safe to say they knew where she was going.

In reading your post here, this comes to mind.
Would Maura really need anything if she were joining a party, or meeting someone who already had reservations?
If deciding on Sunday night was a factor, would Maura be mindful enough to "throw people off" by searching for places she knew she was not going? The handwritten directions make me wonder just how mindful she might have been, even on Sunday/early Monday am.
And finally, just because no one seems to know to this day where she went/or was going, well, I think they need more information.
I'm all for letting them have her personal computer back.
If NH won't give up the personal belonging that was left behind in her dorm room, maybe UMASS or MA police will agree to send a petition for the rights of the family. I'm no legal beagle, but there's some here who are. Is there any way to appeal to police to get back the belonging that was not involved in a missing persons case? I mean, police think Maura may have accepted a ride, won't really say why and what makes them think it could be a party. Her case has been accepted as a possible homicide. So the investigators there at the very least, ought to gain ownership of that computer,(or a simple hard drive copy), and work with family memebers and close friends to help further the bigger picture.
The bigger picture for me is; was Maura going to start a new life or, was she drawn there for a reason.
Planned parenthood for example comes to mind. If she were using their services, they are under NO obligation to tell anyone.
It's reported that searches were done that are relevant to my example. So if Maura made it to an appointment on Tuesday afternoon, having police follow the chain of events from her PC might lead to a court ordered confirmation. That she made it to an appointment. It would be something. Not grasping at straws but truely helpful to examine the hard drive activity with the help of friends and family.

Like everyone says, go back to to beginning. Go back to Amherst. The computer spells Amherst, everything prior, and personal things that were intended for Maura's eyes only. Why is it just sitting? Or is it just sitting? Do they ask family to help with the meanings of this or that as they go through her Computer, her shawdow if you will....
It was 32 degrees the night Maura went missing. There weren't any footprints going East, only the normal looking road with tire impressions. There was a search that night and it involved some of the parents coming home from some meeting. People were getting off of buses and returning at around the same time as Maura being there,(general area re; in town, ie). I find that meaningful, and I hope they have explored that angle. What I'm saying is that for all we know, someone into skiing or involved with the schools whether student or higher, were on the road at the same time.
Some 36 hours later from high in the sky they DID NOT see human footprints going into the woods, or working around anywhere in the woods, the clearing.
If it was really Maura rushing along the road, I can believe it now. It really wasn't that cold and she could cover an area rather quickly. She'd know enough to pace herself in the cold.
*
Mcsmom, was it cold as you climbed? Did it ever reach 32 degrees? Do you feel she could do it, if you could? Please answer if you see this.

She didn't plan to wipe out, and she might have to figure out a way to be picked up unless someone was waiting or along with her. I'm not hoping to discuss travelling in tandom. Just hoping to show why I think that going back to the starting place is a big factor in finding Maura.

Lighthouse 101 wrote:

<quoted text>
Jenkins in 2004 if MM made any reservation she would need to use a Debit or Credit Card. This would be easy to track. She would also need directions to travel where she put the address to where she was going on map quest.
I don't think for a second LE or family had no idea where she was going.
You want another hint - The lady who ran that rental in VT that was contacted by Sharon in the fall of 2004. Do you think the PIs or LE wouldn't interview her before that if they had no idea where she was going?
She had phone records to show where she called - CC info to prove reservation info - and map quest info. I think it is safe to say they knew where she was going.

I don't believe investigators have any idea where maura was headed and why I believe that is the fact that they did release to the public that they found mapquest directions on her computer to the burlington area.

IMO, police wouldn't even need to release that tidbit if they already knew themselves where she was going. They were fishing. Sending out info to the public, hoping the public would bite and give them a tip that would lead to a specific destination near burlington as example.

Orko Kringer wrote:

<quoted text>
I don't believe investigators have any idea where maura was headed and why I believe that is the fact that they did release to the public that they found mapquest directions on her computer to the burlington area.
IMO, police wouldn't even need to release that tidbit if they already knew themselves where she was going. They were fishing. Sending out info to the public, hoping the public would bite and give them a tip that would lead to a specific destination near burlington as example.

Where ever she was going she wasn't expecting to crash. So I do not think she even attempted to cover her tracks at all. I think the PC searches - and phone records whether from dorm room or cellphone would show where she was going.

Maybe they released that information early before the PC was turned on and phone records came back.

I don't buy into this whole thing being a great mystery.

Just me--paris wrote:

Like everyone says, go back to to beginning. Go back to Amherst. The computer spells Amherst, everything prior, and personal things that were intended for Maura's eyes only. Why is it just sitting? Or is it just sitting? Do they ask family to help with the meanings of this or that as they go through her Computer, her shawdow if you will....
It was 32 degrees the night Maura went missing. There weren't any footprints going East, only the normal looking road with tire impressions. There was a search that night and it involved some of the parents coming home from some meeting. People were getting off of buses and returning at around the same time as Maura being there,(general area re; in town, ie). I find that meaningful, and I hope they have explored that angle. What I'm saying is that for all we know, someone into skiing or involved with the schools whether student or higher, were on the road at the same time.
Some 36 hours later from high in the sky they DID NOT see human footprints going into the woods, or working around anywhere in the woods, the clearing.
If it was really Maura rushing along the road, I can believe it now. It really wasn't that cold and she could cover an area rather quickly. She'd know enough to pace herself in the cold.
*
Mcsmom, was it cold as you climbed? Did it ever reach 32 degrees? Do you feel she could do it, if you could? Please answer if you see this.
She didn't plan to wipe out, and she might have to figure out a way to be picked up unless someone was waiting or along with her. I'm not hoping to discuss travelling in tandom. Just hoping to show why I think that going back to the starting place is a big factor in finding Maura.

We have no way of knowing for sure what was given back to family and what wasn't.The only thing I know that was just sitting from what we were told was her computer which was sitting in her sister's closet. We were told she knew nothing about computers and that was why it just sat there and wasn't looked at.
What parents? What meeting? That's the first I've heard of parents searching for Maura.
There were no people getting off busses anywhere near the accident. The SBD dropped kids off the bus at the school about 5-6 miles away. Where are you getting your information from?

Lighthouse, I'm thinking of the Todd Landry afidavit and the Londonderry ping. What do you make of that?

Lighthouse 101 wrote:

<quoted text>
Where ever she was going she wasn't expecting to crash. So I do not think she even attempted to cover her tracks at all. I think the PC searches - and phone records whether from dorm room or cellphone would show where she was going.
Maybe they released that information early before the PC was turned on and phone records came back.
I don't buy into this whole thing being a great mystery.

The only reason I think Maura was covering tracks is that she was highly personal and selective with her doings and goings on and her friends have said this. Also, she seemed to want to tell Billy more.....
and she left without telling him. She said she'd call later. She didn't feel like talking to much of anyone.....

Wowzer the real one wrote:

<quoted text>
We have no way of knowing for sure what was given back to family and what wasn't.The only thing I know that was just sitting from what we were told was her computer which was sitting in her sister's closet. We were told she knew nothing about computers and that was why it just sat there and wasn't looked at.
What parents? What meeting? That's the first I've heard of parents searching for Maura.
There were no people getting off busses anywhere near the accident. The SBD dropped kids off the bus at the school about 5-6 miles away. Where are you getting your information from?

Whitewash said so at one point. I thought that maybe you had as well, but I must be mistaken. There was an outcry made that there were people coming home, herself included who tried to help in finding this missing driver. If you have saved any of the MM or MMM forums, you will find this.

I can't respond to everything you ask right now, but I will try to get on later, I'm running behind now.

Wowzer the real one wrote:

<quoted text>
We have no way of knowing for sure what was given back to family and what wasn't.The only thing I know that was just sitting from what we were told was her computer which was sitting in her sister's closet. We were told she knew nothing about computers and that was why it just sat there and wasn't looked at.
What parents? What meeting? That's the first I've heard of parents searching for Maura.
There were no people getting off busses anywhere near the accident. The SBD dropped kids off the bus at the school about 5-6 miles away. Where are you getting your information from?

I realize the students/skiiers were dropped off at school, but they would need to continue on to get home. Some would be driving. Maura was in the area. Just thoughts. Yes, the pc sat in the closet, and I find that an unbelievable loss, if so.
If someone can help to express a better answer for Wowzer, I'd appreciate it. I can't recall exactly what was going on but aolot of old 'forumers", will.