Maura Murray

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citigirl

Brockton, MA

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#25214
Oct 10, 2012
 

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jwb wrote:
<quoted text>
that is where the mis understanding comes in- My post was not directed towards anyone- it was a general statement that meant - hey lets stop posting and do somthing. I put your name in in hopes of a supply of posters and thats it!!! I would put them up or others that wanted to join.
Again here is a def of the phrase " put you money where your mouth is. "put your money where your mouth is
to do something rather than to just talk about it I finally realized that I should stop complaining about the people who run our town, put my money where my mouth is, and run for office."
Your post was directed at me and Wowzer. You stated to me to put your money where your mouth is and help and then you stated to Wowzer are you in.
jwb

Lincoln, NH

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#25215
Oct 10, 2012
 
I am not looking for a thank you at all. I haven't done anything but one stinking poster. I feel badly that Maura is missing and am desperately trying to help. I was not aware of Maura until way after she disappeared as I have said many times. I just can't imagine what the family has gone through, it breaks my heart.
jwb

Lincoln, NH

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#25216
Oct 10, 2012
 
Wowzer- I have a new respect for you after your post to citigirl
jwb

Lincoln, NH

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#25217
Oct 10, 2012
 
citigirl wrote:
<quoted text>Your post was directed at me and Wowzer. You stated to me to put your money where your mouth is and help and then you stated to Wowzer are you in.
ok final time put your money where your mouth in was me saying to (all) are you interested in getting the ball rolling. I put your name and wowzers nameand Jenkins because Wowzer is Local- jenkins is sort of local and you are family that might be able to supply posters.

Any how- I guess maybe I have exhausted myself here and need to move on.

If I mis worded my post - I am sorry for that, but what you are trying to insinuate i was saying is not my intention.
jwb

Lincoln, NH

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#25218
Oct 10, 2012
 
Citigirl- I am saying to you now that I am interested in putting up posters for Maura to help get the word out. I am willing to canvass the area on my own. Are there posters that will hold up to the outdoors?
citigirl

Brockton, MA

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#25219
Oct 10, 2012
 

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Wowzer the real one wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm very sorry for your loss citigirl. I can't even imagine what you are going through.
People help because they want to, not because they expect to be thanked or patted on the back. You've stated several times that you and the family were thankful for everything that was done to help.
Wowzer I know that people help because they want to. No one in the area knows us but put there hearts together to help Maura and our family. I will always be greatful for that. No matter how tragic this was for our family you can never forget the good that people have done.
jwb

Lincoln, NH

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#25220
Oct 10, 2012
 
Citigirl- you however have me convinced that Maura is no longer with us and that is sad.
citigirl

Brockton, MA

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#25221
Oct 10, 2012
 
jwb wrote:
I am not looking for a thank you at all. I haven't done anything but one stinking poster. I feel badly that Maura is missing and am desperately trying to help. I was not aware of Maura until way after she disappeared as I have said many times. I just can't imagine what the family has gone through, it breaks my heart.
The fact that you care means alot.
Emmett Dove

Martinsville, VA

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#25222
Oct 11, 2012
 

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wow.. badgering the women..

Since: Feb 12

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#25223
Oct 11, 2012
 
Maruchan wrote:
<quoted text>
I found this cell phone timing thing strange too, so I did a little digging.

Anyway, my conclusion is that the only outgoing call in that half-hour timespan was to Billy, and only one call came in. No other calls were placed or received during that time period, and Fred did not make any calls until 11:38 Sunday morning.
Nice research. The first call did originate at 5:36:16AM and that call was just under eleven minutes ending around 5:47. If he spoke to MM at 5:49 EST he would have been the second call. If what you say is true about routed calls and he was the first phone call at 5:36AM as well as the second then she spoke to him for about 15 minutes. That's a long time to speak to someone that doesn't feel like talking. Billy always makes it seem like they didn't speak long. I'd imagine Billy would want answers as to why she is at her Dad's hotel room. Also MCS MOM says the walls are so thin - after speaking for 15 minutes it sounds like the whole Hotel would be woken up.

The call you make mention to at 11:38AM happens to be an incoming call. So FM never calls his insurance company before picking up his rental at 12:25PM? I find that highly unprobable. The first thing most owners would do after hearing about a crash would be to call their insurance company. Infact insurance companies make that mandatory - and FM was always worried about the coverage.

He could have called from the hotel phone, but if he did LE would have given those over along with the cellphone bills as per the FOI.

Do you find it odd that he tells LE that he didn't hear her come in? How did she get in? Not sure how many people with $4000 cash on them will pass out and leave a hotel door unlocked?

Do you find it odd that he woke up at 10:00 AM and she woke up at 10:30AM? Not sure if you have a daughter or not, but would you wait 1/2 hour to wake her up? If it wasn't planned for her to return I would think you would wake her up and ask her why she isn't in the dorm room? Maybe something bad happened and you would wake them immediately to find out.
just me

Minneapolis, MN

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#25224
Oct 11, 2012
 

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mcsmom wrote:
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Yes, this past Sunday it was around 32 degrees at the top, snowing and windy.
Mcsmom, thanks for your answer, and BTW, I think was a pretty cool for you to do, and for Maura. Maybe that should make headlines in and of it'self, lol.

But what I meant was, do you think Maura could have walked/ran/hid/&been ok the night she went missing? I wondered because most accounts put the temp that night at 32 degrees.
I was thinking since you could handle it, and the time/effort it took to get down from the cold windy/snowy mountain....your opinion would rank highly for me. I still have hope too.

Since: Nov 08

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#25225
Oct 11, 2012
 

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just me wrote:
<quoted text>
Mcsmom, thanks for your answer, and BTW, I think was a pretty cool for you to do, and for Maura. Maybe that should make headlines in and of it'self, lol.
But what I meant was, do you think Maura could have walked/ran/hid/&been ok the night she went missing? I wondered because most accounts put the temp that night at 32 degrees.
I was thinking since you could handle it, and the time/effort it took to get down from the cold windy/snowy mountain....your opinion would rank highly for me. I still have hope too.
Just a note. I have camped overnight in -25f more than once and below zero more times than I can remember. How you are dressed. How you control your sweating, and the amount you eat, drink (water) and any drug use (including alcohol) all determines how well you will fair in lower temperatures. If Maura ran, either down the road or into the woods. Doing so is no miracle. She was in good shape. Her being able to keep her body temperature up by running would keep her very safe in those temperatures. I have done it many times. She should have been dressed lightly when she was running to keep from sweating and soaking her clothes. Clothes that she would later need to stay warm when she stopped running. Whether she did this, is of course unknown. The alcohol that she almost certainly had on board, again, a big problem in the cold. As long as you can keep moving, which of course requires food and water. You can stay warm. When you stop, you need to add insulating layers. Also your body can't make heat without food and water. If the insulation you have on is soaked with water it becomes far less effective, depending on the material, those layers can be totally useless.

And citigirl, also very sorry to hear of your difficulties and suffering as of late.

Bill
just me

Minneapolis, MN

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#25226
Oct 11, 2012
 
Lighthouse 101 wrote:
<quoted text>
Nice research. The first call did originate at 5:36:16AM and that call was just under eleven minutes ending around 5:47. If he spoke to MM at 5:49 EST he would have been the second call. If what you say is true about routed calls and he was the first phone call at 5:36AM as well as the second then she spoke to him for about 15 minutes. That's a long time to speak to someone that doesn't feel like talking. Billy always makes it seem like they didn't speak long. I'd imagine Billy would want answers as to why she is at her Dad's hotel room. Also MCS MOM says the walls are so thin - after speaking for 15 minutes it sounds like the whole Hotel would be woken up.
The call you make mention to at 11:38AM happens to be an incoming call. So FM never calls his insurance company before picking up his rental at 12:25PM? I find that highly unprobable. The first thing most owners would do after hearing about a crash would be to call their insurance company. Infact insurance companies make that mandatory - and FM was always worried about the coverage.
He could have called from the hotel phone, but if he did LE would have given those over along with the cellphone bills as per the FOI.
Do you find it odd that he tells LE that he didn't hear her come in? How did she get in? Not sure how many people with $4000 cash on them will pass out and leave a hotel door unlocked?
Do you find it odd that he woke up at 10:00 AM and she woke up at 10:30AM? Not sure if you have a daughter or not, but would you wait 1/2 hour to wake her up? If it wasn't planned for her to return I would think you would wake her up and ask her why she isn't in the dorm room? Maybe something bad happened and you would wake them immediately to find out.
All good points, and I nearly forgot about the 4,000, thanks. I hate to wonder if somebody needed that money, but I do.

For 10 years I managed a good Hotel downtown mpls. We were always to ask, did they want one or two keys.
Fred did go see her, maybe gave her a "key" for the next day?
I would think that the norm when he came to town, nothing wrong with it. He just didn't expect her to be driving again after she dropped him off and got back to her dorm party.
I forgot she used Fred's phone to call Billy. That would be a bit tricky, to find the phone, maybe leave the room, talk, cry/be consoled.....get back in the room, and not be noticed.
just me

Minneapolis, MN

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#25227
Oct 11, 2012
 

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Gotta go, it's mom and me day.....see ya later

Since: Feb 12

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#25228
Oct 11, 2012
 

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WTH-the-original wrote:
<quoted text>
Just a note. I have camped overnight in -25f more than once and below zero more times than I can remember. How you are dressed. How you control your sweating, and the amount you eat, drink (water) and any drug use (including alcohol) all determines how well you will fair in lower temperatures. If Maura ran, either down the road or into the woods. Doing so is no miracle. She was in good shape. Her being able to keep her body temperature up by running would keep her very safe in those temperatures. I have done it many times. She should have been dressed lightly when she was running to keep from sweating and soaking her clothes. Clothes that she would later need to stay warm when she stopped running. Whether she did this, is of course unknown. The alcohol that she almost certainly had on board, again, a big problem in the cold. As long as you can keep moving, which of course requires food and water. You can stay warm. When you stop, you need to add insulating layers. Also your body can't make heat without food and water. If the insulation you have on is soaked with water it becomes far less effective, depending on the material, those layers can be totally useless.
And citigirl, also very sorry to hear of your difficulties and suffering as of late.
Bill
I watched an ID show where a search party was looking for a body. They didn't find it, but a couple days later it was located because a raccon of all things took one the body parts and dragged it away from the rest of the body.(The body was cut up by the killer)

Since: Nov 08

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#25229
Oct 11, 2012
 

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Lighthouse 101 wrote:
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I watched an ID show where a search party was looking for a body. They didn't find it, but a couple days later it was located because a raccon of all things took one the body parts and dragged it away from the rest of the body.(The body was cut up by the killer)
Yeah. If you are going to kill someone, and you can't dispose of the body in water or by burial (each with there own sets of problems, as the killer), you have some things to consider. Chopping it up makes it easier to transport but smaller parts means more pieces and any discovery of any piece means it is likely the entire body will eventually be found and identified unless the packages were dropped off over a large area. Don't forget a very small amount of any tissue can be used to get a DNA profile even if the entire body is not found. Also, saw or knife marks on the bones removes any doubt that this was a murder and that the body wasn't disassembled by animal activity.

If you are hoping for possibly the death being classified as accidental or suicide then you must leave the body intact and it would be best if it wasn't discovered until it was just a group of bones. Even then the manner of the murder would need to be very carefully thought out because any traumatic death is likely to be discovered if enough of the bones are found unless you toss the body off of a cliff, that would cause multi-system trauma. Even then, you might not get away with it even if there are only bones when found. Frankly, murder is a tough business to be in now-a-days. It is very, very difficult to get away with it if any link is found between the victim and killer. And that known link isn't even needed if there is DNA and the killers DNA is on file somewhere.

We are also assuming no familial/friend link between the victim and killer. Since we know stranger on stranger killings are not the majority of murders. If someone wants to kill you, likely it is someone that knows you. Either because you piss them off, or for monetary or other reward.

Probably spouting off about stuff that all the people here know.

Bill

Since: Feb 12

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#25230
Oct 11, 2012
 

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WTH-the-original wrote:
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Probably spouting off about stuff that all the people here know.
Bill
Bill - I think it is always good to review certain information so that it is constantly remembered. I found myself at first bouncing back and forth after each post - or new piece of "evidence" that was added.

Now If there is something new I think changes my mind I have to replay the whole story in my head and then see if the piece fits.

I don't think anyone has actually wrote a post on murder - and body disposal like you just did. I think your post puts it in perspective that it isn't easy to commit murder and get away with it.

Since: Nov 08

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#25231
Oct 11, 2012
 

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Lighthouse 101 wrote:
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Bill - I think it is always good to review certain information so that it is constantly remembered. I found myself at first bouncing back and forth after each post - or new piece of "evidence" that was added.
Now If there is something new I think changes my mind I have to replay the whole story in my head and then see if the piece fits.
I don't think anyone has actually wrote a post on murder - and body disposal like you just did. I think your post puts it in perspective that it isn't easy to commit murder and get away with it.
No matter what you do to dispose of a body, they have a nasty tendency to reappear. We had a guy a couple of decades ago run his wife through a wood chipper. They were able to convict him of murder with less than a pound IIRC of weight of her remains. Murder is very difficult to get away with. Again, I don't believe that she was murdered, and there is nothing to indicate that she was. Unfortunately, I do believe that it likely that she is dead, but even that isn't a given.

Bill
Maruchan

Amherst, NH

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#25232
Oct 11, 2012
 
Lighthouse 101 wrote:
<quoted text>
Nice research. The first call did originate at 5:36:16AM and that call was just under eleven minutes ending around 5:47. If he spoke to MM at 5:49 EST he would have been the second call. If what you say is true about routed calls and he was the first phone call at 5:36AM as well as the second then she spoke to him for about 15 minutes. That's a long time to speak to someone that doesn't feel like talking. Billy always makes it seem like they didn't speak long. I'd imagine Billy would want answers as to why she is at her Dad's hotel room. Also MCS MOM says the walls are so thin - after speaking for 15 minutes it sounds like the whole Hotel would be woken up.
The call you make mention to at 11:38AM happens to be an incoming call. So FM never calls his insurance company before picking up his rental at 12:25PM? I find that highly unprobable. The first thing most owners would do after hearing about a crash would be to call their insurance company. Infact insurance companies make that mandatory - and FM was always worried about the coverage.
He could have called from the hotel phone, but if he did LE would have given those over along with the cellphone bills as per the FOI.
Do you find it odd that he tells LE that he didn't hear her come in? How did she get in? Not sure how many people with $4000 cash on them will pass out and leave a hotel door unlocked?
Do you find it odd that he woke up at 10:00 AM and she woke up at 10:30AM? Not sure if you have a daughter or not, but would you wait 1/2 hour to wake her up? If it wasn't planned for her to return I would think you would wake her up and ask her why she isn't in the dorm room? Maybe something bad happened and you would wake them immediately to find out.
Thanks for the compliment on the research.:)

I guess we'll just disagree on the time of the first call. I read it as 5:36, not 5:38.

The call at 11:38:07 is an outgoing call and lasts for 53 seconds, which means it ended at 11:39:00.

The next call is at 11:39:14 and is a routed/incoming call which, again using the formula I posted above, lasted 328 seconds, or 5 minutes 46 seconds. Fred's statement about that day says that, after MM woke up at 10:30, he went out and looked at his car, then: "Went to the office and asked who is open? Where is a Toyota place? Where can I get a car? She made some calls for me to rental places. I went to the room and found a couple of places that had free loaners. I wasn't sure I had insurance for her." He could have been using the hotel phone to make some calls, and none of the police agencies thought to get those records, just like it never occurred to them to follow up on the call to Linda Salamone. The 11:38 call could have been to his insurance carrier, where he left a message and they returned the call at 11:39, or the same scenario with North Amherst Motors/tow company, or a car rental place.

I still believe if MM made phone calls at that early hour, she would have gone into the lobby or one of the other available rooms, like the gym, to make them. Fred's statement said that she used the weight room at the Quality Inn earlier that day, so she knew where it was and could have gone there to make her call. I think Fred probably got two keys when he checked in or gave his to MM and got another one at the desk when he returned.

As far as Fred hearing her, I have known people in my life that couldn't be awakened with a bomb going off next to them. I spent 6 hours being loudly and violently sick in a bathroom next to two family members' bedroom and neither one heard me. Add in the alcohol consumed by Fred - he had Maura drive him back, which says to me she was the less impaired of the two - and it is very possible that he never heard a thing.

The very fact that Fred didn't wake up Maura tells me she probably was expected to stay the night there, or at least, it wasn't that unusual for her to have done such a thing.

Since: Jul 11

Vandalia, IL

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#25233
Oct 11, 2012
 
Maruchan wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks for the compliment on the research.:)
I guess we'll just disagree on the time of the first call. I read it as 5:36, not 5:38.
The call at 11:38:07 is an outgoing call and lasts for 53 seconds, which means it ended at 11:39:00.
The next call is at 11:39:14 and is a routed/incoming call which, again using the formula I posted above, lasted 328 seconds, or 5 minutes 46 seconds. Fred's statement about that day says that, after MM woke up at 10:30, he went out and looked at his car, then: "Went to the office and asked who is open? Where is a Toyota place? Where can I get a car? She made some calls for me to rental places. I went to the room and found a couple of places that had free loaners. I wasn't sure I had insurance for her." He could have been using the hotel phone to make some calls, and none of the police agencies thought to get those records, just like it never occurred to them to follow up on the call to Linda Salamone. The 11:38 call could have been to his insurance carrier, where he left a message and they returned the call at 11:39, or the same scenario with North Amherst Motors/tow company, or a car rental place.
I still believe if MM made phone calls at that early hour, she would have gone into the lobby or one of the other available rooms, like the gym, to make them. Fred's statement said that she used the weight room at the Quality Inn earlier that day, so she knew where it was and could have gone there to make her call. I think Fred probably got two keys when he checked in or gave his to MM and got another one at the desk when he returned.
As far as Fred hearing her, I have known people in my life that couldn't be awakened with a bomb going off next to them. I spent 6 hours being loudly and violently sick in a bathroom next to two family members' bedroom and neither one heard me. Add in the alcohol consumed by Fred - he had Maura drive him back, which says to me she was the less impaired of the two - and it is very possible that he never heard a thing.
The very fact that Fred didn't wake up Maura tells me she probably was expected to stay the night there, or at least, it wasn't that unusual for her to have done such a thing.
Good point on where maura likely had her conversation with Billy.

the pool and fitness center were in a different building from the actual rooms at this particular hotel. It would make sense for her to go there. Of course she would have to have a key to access the pool building.

I can't fathom why she would've went to the hotel that night.

It makes no sense to me. If her get-together took place anywere other than her own dorm, maybe, it would make more sense then for her to go to her dad's hotel. Otherwise, that time of the morning, leaving the building you live in to get out and drive seven miles when you don't have to ... makes NO sense.

I have always wondered if her father maybe had too much to drink (at the Amherst Brew Pub) and therefore needed maura to drive him to the hotel. but seeing as how they were also with maura's friend, I think the father would've been more responsible.

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