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Since: Nov 08
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Lighthouse 101 wrote: <quoted text>
I'm willing to be the first two rules in "car crash culture" in any state?
1. Don't drink and drive
2. Better to stay with the car and wait for LE than be a 21 year old female and get in a car with a stranger. I have stated before that the saddest part of Maura's legacy may be as a warning to others, to not do what she had done. Very sad, considering the potential that was apparent. Bill
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Since: Nov 08
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BobJenkins-OG wrote: <quoted text>Bill says entertainment...so a forum about a missing girl who probably got murdered is entertainment huh? Federal officer BJ. I'll write this for you and others once more. I find the fact that a collection of mostly misfits and oddballs, like yourself, thinks that they are "finding" out anything about this case, absolutely hysterical. Maura's fate, isn't known by anyone. That fact that a group of people, some of which clearly have room temperature IQ's, run around on these forums going over the same things, and changing those few known facts to fit their theories. I cannot emphasize how entertaining I find these goings on. Pure entertainment that has nothing to do with Maura's fate. Bill
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Since: Nov 08
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BobJenkins-OG wrote: <quoted text>
These people are tryin to end this and all conversations about MM, unless it's about how she killed herself, got lost in the woods or how drunk and stupid she was. The question is why?? Why the hell do these people care?? It's really really weird.
You people are the reason I started posting again straight up. I couldn't stand the forum being overrun by their bullshit; and that's what it is: bullshit.
Epic douchebaggery of the highest order Bobby, you are so clueless. Let me help. I just stay here for the entertainment, I have already told you that. The other reason is to try to prevent what is called feature creep or bullshit. Meaning that people, like yourself often want to insert what can only be described as bullshit into the story. Not even high quality bullshit. After seeing the damage that a single nitwit could do, not only to the local population but to the case itself. I decided to try and prevent any more of the rampant stupidity that I was witnessing. I don't care what anyone writes. They can say anything they want, just back it up with a logical construction, with facts. If you are going to tell me that Maura was abducted by aliens, you better have some very strong evidence to back that up or you will get an argument from me. If you want to tell me that she was abducted and murdered, point to any evidence that shows that might have happened. If you are going to point fingers at someone, you better have some proof. I still wonder why you even bother answering my posts. Clearly you have no regard for the evidence and are going to say anything you want regardless of how absurd. And you do it in long, drawn out, multiple postings. If my posts clearly have no merit, why bother responding to them? Or is it the other way around, your posts have no merit and you get really pissed off when I point that out to others? I will keep watching and posting when I see invented bullshit. Bill
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Since: Feb 12
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BobJenkins-OG wrote: -second point I already made a post about. She probably wasn't waiting for the cops but for all we know she could have been. As I showed above she had to have been on scene for at least 5 minutes after sbd left, probably more like 10. I do agree it is unlikely she was waitin for the cops, but just because she didn't go to a house doesn't mean shit. She's a young girl who's reported to have been very shy, she probably felt wicked uncomfortable walking up and knocking on someone's door at night like that, and apparently she was scared of the sbd so she wasn't going to his house. I agree that it's unlikely she was waitin for the cops and I said that in my original post, so no I don't really believe that, obviously. Jenkins - Can you please explain to me how a shy girl could feel uncomfortable about going and knocking on a neighbors door, but not shy enough to get into a car with strangers? I find it very difficult to believe that the cardinal rule " Don't get into the car with strangers was broken" If she didn't knock on the neighbors door, and she didn't get into a car with a stranger than using the evidence and facts we know where do you think she could be? Their aren't that many options.
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BobJenkins-OG
Southbury, CT
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Lighthouse 101 wrote: <quoted text>
Why are you talking about NH "car crash culture"? I'm thankful for you showing the differences between state car crash cultures of NH and CT, but MM was from MA. If there was any "car crash culture" that was followed it would be from MA. Unless you are insinuating that MM before taking a road trip looked up the proper do's and don't in car crashes by state. That would truly suck if she had to drive to FL or OK to see Billy with all those states to drive through.
I'm willing to be the first two rules in "car crash culture" in any state?
1. Don't drink and drive
2. Better to stay with the car and wait for LE than be a 21 year old female and get in a car with a stranger. Lighthouse you actually made really good points in both of your posts here this morning. You made a good point about the whole "car crash culture" thing lol, she might adhere to what would be normally done in mass, where everyone wants the cops called for the littlest thing, but maybe not. once you get up into NH, where the distances become much larger and cops are much fewer and farther between anyone can recognize the difference, your much more on your own. Maura had been coming to NH her whole life, she would've known the difference between mass and NH. Obviously she didn't want the cops there, I think that's a safe assumption considering that's what she said to the sbd. All I'm saying that is there's a big difference between not wanting to talk to the cops and specifically running from the cops. I'll say it again, someone who is running from the cops; someone who is so afraid of the cops that they're literally about to walk miles into the woods to their death to avoid them is not going to stay at their car for 10-15 minutes! They're not gonna stay at their car for 5 minutes, they won't even be there for 2 minutes! They're gonna try to start their car and then be out in like under a minute. We got people here saying that she was so scared of the cops that she was wiling to walk miles into the woods to her death to avoid them, which is just ridiculous. Se clearly didn't want the cops there but it also appears she wasn't particularly that scared of them either. Someone who is that scared of the cops isn't going to stay with their car at all, they are going to run immediately. Saying she was drunk and Running from the cops is clearly an assumption and it doesnt really match the witness statements very well.
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Since: Feb 12
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BobJenkins-OG wrote: <quoted text>
Lighthouse you actually made really good points in both of your posts here this morning.
I'll say it again, someone who is running from the cops; someone who is so afraid of the cops that they're literally about to walk miles into the woods to their death to avoid them is not going to stay at their car for 10-15 minutes! They're not gonna stay at their car for 5 minutes, they won't even be there for 2 minutes! They're gonna try to start their car and then be out in like under a minute. Jenkins - Your not looking at this the right way. I do believe when MM crashed knew she was in major trouble. I think she had no idea what she was going to do next. So she did hang out by the car. She had no idea the neighbors saw the accident and called the police so there was no sense of urgency. When the SBD stopped and spoke to her and drove away - she saw he lived so close to the accident and it would be a very short time (before and or if) he called the police that they would be there. Thats when she decided to move with a sense of urgency. Once she thought the police would be called she would then have to run.
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Since: Nov 08
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BobJenkins-OG wrote: <quoted text>We got people here saying that she was so scared of the cops that she was wiling to walk miles into the woods to her death to avoid them, which is just ridiculous. Bob, again, you make laughable statements. She may have gone in the woods to commit suicide, that is possible. But, she may have gone into the woods only to avoid the police and she could have easily gotten herself lost. I don't know if you have ever been in the woods at night. Someone not use to it, and I don't think Maura was, can easily get disoriented and start running/walking in the wrong direction, and then panic can set in. But again, you may never have been in the woods at night, alone. You might not know what is required to keep your orientation. You might also not know this, but it has been discovered that alcohol causes some people to make really bad decisions. Now I know you insisted that she didn't drink, couldn't have been drunk but others including myself have seen patterns over my more than decade on the FD. One of those includes when you find alcohol in a crashed car, with the driver missing, it means that the driver almost certainly was drinking in the car and was likely legally intoxicated. As a matter of fact, just finding an abandoned crashed car is usually an excellent indicator. I know your vast year (has it been a year yet?) of experience in what, the border patrol, seems to contradict that, but that is my experience. Bill
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BobJenkins-OG
Southbury, CT
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Bill I never said I don't think she was drinking, I've said on many occasions, including some of my last posts that she was obviously drinking; that is just blatantly obvious.
But u gotta remember there's a huge difference between drinking and being drunk,
She obviously had a drink or 2 on her ride up but do you really think she was chugging drinks?
Almost 3 hour ride she probably filled one up when she left and then filled another when she gassed up, that would make sense. And the coke bottle had to have been fairly full when she crashed because it made a noticeable pink stain on the snow. A coke bottle is generally 20oz, to make a noticeable stain it must have been fairly full because just a few oz's in the bottom of the bottle won't make a very big stain at all.
So we know she must have drank at least one drunk because it's unlikely she filled it up in Amherst and it was still full when she crashed.
She was obviously drinking, but probably not intoxicated. According to witnesses she had none of the classic signs of a drunk person, her motor skills were obviously still functioning.
And what your saying about a crashes car with no driver is usually a good indicator, again maybe that's true down in CT but it is NOT true in NH at all. That's a gross mischaracterization. Sober people leave their cars after crashes all the time in the winter. People have no idea how long until the cops will show up, which could be an hour or more and Rather than just sitting there they hitch a ride back to town. This is a fact. Even smith said so when he lied to the family about thinkin it was Fred drivin. Remember the whole bullshit about thinking he went snowmobiling? This is a common, every day occurrence in the north country.
I do agree that sadly her legacy may be a lesson to others on what not to do. When your a young beautiful girl out at night in the middle of nowhere, you should really stay with your car until LE arrives
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Emmett Dove
Martinsville, VA
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BobJenkins-OG wrote: <quoted text>
Hey Emmett, couple q's for you. did you live in new haven CT? That's the only city called elm city I'm aware of.
Did you get sent prison in CT? You said you've seen Wtby and Meriden through a DOC transport, that must mean you were in prison in CT right?
If those are personal q's and you don't want to answer I understand and if you were in jail I'm not asking what you did I'm just really curious after that post.
I gotta say Emmett, your a very interesting individual. Tbh, I thought about this for awhile & figured I would answer because you asked me with respect... Trust Me, there is nothing Interesting about me, im just a normal person that wears their heart on their sleeve.. I never lived in CT.. 2mnths after my wife passed away, I was going to a UCONN football game because a friend of mine transfered there & I had took a semester off because of my loss (I couldnt handle it).. I had some friends with me, one being what would be reffered to as a "Mountain HillBilly" & through every state he kept pointing at everything! Well, he pointed at the WWF building in CT & the state troopers thought we were doing something wrong cus he was pointing.. Needless to say they pulled me over.. Now, down south, what I done was not a crime.. I took my pistol from my glove box, took the clip out, pulled the chamber back, locked it & placed it on my dash.. Ignorance is NO Excuse, but I didnt know you couldnt have a weapon in the vehicle.. The people in CT, from the Judge, DA, State Officers, & even DOC CO's were Very Nice to me! After they verified who I was, & talked to me, the Judge said that I had a ManMin charge but would do everything to keep me from being put in prison but couldnt just let me leave as at that time considered a "flight risk"... After Coach Simmons flew up yonder & talked, They offered to let me stay in shape & I was never behind any bars, just couldnt leave the state.. Since I knew no-one up there, I was placed in NHCCC on Whalley Ave while the DA & Judge went through legal loopholes to set me free! After waiting for awhile, I was offered the Military & had to wait on the whole process to leave.. If it werent for the good people in CT, I would have ruined my life probably.. They fought for me, a "stranger" , that made one simple mistake & gave me a chance to better my life.. I am gratefull to this day to & for those people.. Now, this forum isnt about me, & sorry that I spammed the board, but I have been polite & not bothered anyone nor talked bad about anyone since I re-posted.. I hope I answered your questions correctly..
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Since: Feb 12
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BobJenkins-OG wrote: People have no idea how long until the cops will show up, which could be an hour or more and Rather than just sitting there they hitch a ride back to town. You are making it look like she got stuck in Hastings Cutoff.
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BobJenkins-OG
West Springfield, MA
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Emmett Dove wrote: <quoted text>
Tbh, I thought about this for awhile & figured I would answer because you asked me with respect...
Trust Me, there is nothing Interesting about me, im just a normal person that wears their heart on their sleeve..
I never lived in CT.. 2mnths after my wife passed away, I was going to a UCONN football game because a friend of mine transfered there & I had took a semester off because of my loss (I couldnt handle it).. I had some friends with me, one being what would be reffered to as a "Mountain HillBilly" & through every state he kept pointing at everything! Well, he pointed at the WWF building in CT & the state troopers thought we were doing something wrong cus he was pointing.. Needless to say they pulled me over..
Now, down south, what I done was not a crime.. I took my pistol from my glove box, took the clip out, pulled the chamber back, locked it & placed it on my dash.. Ignorance is NO Excuse, but I didnt know you couldnt have a weapon in the vehicle..
The people in CT, from the Judge, DA, State Officers, & even DOC CO's were Very Nice to me! After they verified who I was, & talked to me, the Judge said that I had a ManMin charge but would do everything to keep me from being put in prison but couldnt just let me leave as at that time considered a "flight risk"... After Coach Simmons flew up yonder & talked, They offered to let me stay in shape & I was never behind any bars, just couldnt leave the state.. Since I knew no-one up there, I was placed in NHCCC on Whalley Ave while the DA & Judge went through legal loopholes to set me free!
After waiting for awhile, I was offered the Military & had to wait on the whole process to leave..
If it werent for the good people in CT, I would have ruined my life probably.. They fought for me, a "stranger" , that made one simple mistake & gave me a chance to better my life.. I am gratefull to this day to & for those people..
Now, this forum isnt about me, & sorry that I spammed the board, but I have been polite & not bothered anyone nor talked bad about anyone since I re-posted..
I hope I answered your questions correctly.. Wow, crazy story Emmett, glad you didn't get sent to prison for that; guns are one thing CT laws are very strict about. You are lucky that there were those nice people to help you out like that, getting sent to prison is not joke, in CT in particular. That's the weird thing about prison; many people, of not most, come out way worse then they are before. Ive known a few people that have been sent to prison and it didn't reform them in the slightest bit, actually made them worse. The worst is people with drug charges. You see some 18 yr old kid who got arrested with drugs, obviously has to be a lot of drugs but still. I know this kid that got sent upstate when he was 18 for 3-5 years. Nicest kid in the world and when he came out he was basically a hardened criminal. I think prison should be reserved for truly bad people, people that are actually a danger to society, not nice people who've made a few mistakes in their life. Really happy to hear that all worked out for you. Sorry for spamming the board with my prison rant lol
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FrmLE
Vero Beach, FL
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WTH-the-original wrote: <quoted text>
What does anywhere near the crash site mean to you? 1000 feet, 4000 ft, a mile, five? Who was it exactly that told you that? Did they give you a POD for the areas searched? What critical spacing was used, or what exactly they were searching for? Did they just do some dog searches or type I, II or III ground searches? I mean I understand you know that she isn't in the woods because THEY said "they don't BELIEVE she is in the woods anywhere near the crash site" but do you actually know what that means? I really would like Jenkins to answer this question. He certainly uses that phrase enough times to warrant some calrification. So how about it jenky? How far exactly is, "anywhere near"? Also, while you are at it, could you possibly also explain exactly how far "way up there" is? As in,'the rag was way up there". ????
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Since: Nov 08
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FrmLE wrote: <quoted text>
I really would like Jenkins to answer this question. He certainly uses that phrase enough times to warrant some calrification.
So how about it jenky? How far exactly is, "anywhere near"?
Also, while you are at it, could you possibly also explain exactly how far "way up there" is? As in,'the rag was way up there".
???? Actually, I frequently ask very good questions. 8-) But, I am smart enough to know that the chances of getting an answer is highly unlikely. I mean, they are hard questions. It must be especially difficult when you are use to people who apparently cannot think and they just accept what you say. No critical thinking at all. I have been asking Shack some good questions also. I keep waiting for her response. She must have missed the questions. I'll be asking her again, later when she reappears. Bill
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BobJenkins-OG
West Springfield, MA
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Here is a quote from the Boston globe 2/20/04:
"Police in helicopters and with their dogs searched the area for a second time yesterday, but with no
evidence that Murray fled into the woods, her family and authorities believe she either hitched a ride and is on her own, or was abducted."
Interesting, authorities seem to think she caught a ride
There are several other articles and quotes by LE that basically say the same thing
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BobJenkins-OG
West Springfield, MA
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WTH-the-original wrote: <quoted text>
What does anywhere near the crash site mean to you? 1000 feet, 4000 ft, a mile, five? Who was it exactly that told you that? Did they give you a POD for the areas searched? What critical spacing was used, or what exactly they were searching for? Did they just do some dog searches or type I, II or III ground searches? I mean I understand you know that she isn't in the woods because THEY said "they don't BELIEVE she is in the woods anywhere near the crash site" but do you actually know what that means? I do a fair amount of this looking for people in the woods stuff, training constantly, I teach it to fire departments, CERT teams and others. I use to look for people and things for the Army for a living and I don't have any idea what that means. BUT, if your satisfied I guess there is no point in continuing with those questions. Federal agent Bob is satisfied, she isn't in the woods.
Bill Actually I'm not the only one who is confident she is not in the woods near the crash site. This is what scarinza has said on several different occasion. It's obviously theoreticall possible that she could be in the woods but it is cleary the least likely of all the scenarios. I am not the only one saying this either, this is what LE said in an early news report. How close is anywhere near the crash site is a good question. Going by what scarinza has said I would say that means anywhere along the stretch of 112 between 302 and n Woodstock. If you listen to scarinza speak there isn't a lot about this case that he sounds confident about, or is willing to say confidently at least. As far as I can tell the only thing he actually sounds confident of is that she isn't in the woods near the crash. It's pretty clear that he, and the other investigators who are actually working this case for the NHSP believe she caught a ride.
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Since: Feb 12
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BobJenkins-OG wrote: <quoted text>
It's pretty clear that he, and the other investigators who are actually working this case for the NHSP believe she caught a ride. Catching a ride is a possibility but I question the motive to that scenario. If she hitched a ride she would have gone against all reason that everyone is taught when they are a child. "Don't speak to strangers, and don't get in the car with strangers." Once she was in the car where and what would she do next? Eventually she would want to return to the car, so how far would she want a ride? The plan would involve more third parties to get her a ride back to her car at some point. Running into the woods and waiting it out would be more beneficial because she didn't need any outside help. Also keep in mind how many people committed murder in 2004 in NH 10 people? How many people can drive in NH in 2004 estimate 800,000? What is the percentage that the person that picks her up is a murderer 10 divided by 800,000 =.00125% I'm sure there are other factors in establishing a percentage like this, but I doubt they would change the figures by that much. What do you think the percentage is a someone not properly equipped to spend the night out in the NH woods and survive?
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BobJenkins-OG
Brooklyn, NY
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Lighthouse 101 wrote: <quoted text>
Catching a ride is a possibility but I question the motive to that scenario. If she hitched a ride she would have gone against all reason that everyone is taught when they are a child. "Don't speak to strangers, and don't get in the car with strangers."
Once she was in the car where and what would she do next? Eventually she would want to return to the car, so how far would she want a ride? The plan would involve more third parties to get her a ride back to her car at some point. Running into the woods and waiting it out would be more beneficial because she didn't need any outside help.
Also keep in mind how many people committed murder in 2004 in NH 10 people? How many people can drive in NH in 2004 estimate 800,000? What is the percentage that the person that picks her up is a murderer 10 divided by 800,000 =.00125% I'm sure there are other factors in establishing a percentage like this, but I doubt they would change the figures by that much.
What do you think the percentage is a someone not properly equipped to spend the night out in the NH woods and survive? Lighthouse that's funny, you think she didn't get killed because the chances were only .00125%? IMO that is pretty much the weakest argument out there, yea those are low chances; they're probably actually even lower than that, but the chances are always extremely low that someone will get murdered, but it happens all the time, every day actually, many times a day. If life went by the likelihood of something happening, murders would never happen. What are the chances of bein murdered you estimate?.00125% right? So that means it didn't happen? Really? Well what are the chances of someone winning the powerball jackpot? 0.000000005706996738% Yet someone wins powerball all the time The whole 'what are the chances' argument is just weak, the chances of getting murdered are always extremely low, yet people get murdered all the time. There was a serial killer in the ct river valley not too long ago, all those victims had extremely low chances of bein killed, yet they were.
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Since: Nov 08
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BobJenkins-OG wrote: <quoted text>Going by what scarinza has said I would say that means anywhere along the stretch of 112 between 302 and n Woodstock. Again, anywhere along the stretch of 112.... That is your best guess as to what it means? First I'll disregard your statement "I would say that means". Meaning that this is your interpretation of what you think someone else is saying. Your best guess as it were. Doesn't fill me with confidence. So you think, that they think, that they are absolutely positive that she isn't on the road on rt112? Including 5 feet into the woods on either side, 10 feet, 1 mile? Bob, really, there is no way to know what that means. His confidence doesn't impress me. And that isn't actually his area of expertise. He may be confident, that doesn't mean she isn't there. Unless they found her fingerprints or DNA from yesterday at a Sheraton Hotel in Hilo, they, like us, won't know what really happened until she is found. And yes, I absolutely believe she could be in those woods, because she could be for several reasons. Bill
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BobJenkins-OG
Brooklyn, NY
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Really? Waitin in the woods would be more beneficial because she could wait it out?? You really believe that?? Who the hell goes into the woods in NH at night in the middle of winter to "wait it out". That's completely ridiculous. Ok but then what?? She's still gonna need a ride somewhere, it's not like if she waited it out she would magically be ok. There was over 2' of snow in those woods and she was wearing jeans and tennis sneakers, there is no way she was that stupid. Have you ever been in the woods in Nh in the winter? Entering the woods is not an easy proposition, especially wearing sneakers an jeans. Just climbing Over the snowbank her shoes and bottom of her jeans would have been packed full of snow and her jeans probably would've been soaked. I can't believe you people actually believe this, that some young girl would enter the woods in Nh, at night, in the dead of winter to 'wait it out' do you really have no idea how ridiculous that sounds?? The fact of the matter is some murders are crimes of opportunity; some sick fuck who probably wouldn't stalk and kill someone but could've been waiting years for an opportunity like that. Most likely it wasn't one of the same guys that commited the other murders in NH, obviously. Once she crashed her car she most likely let her guard down thinkin, just like you do now, what are the chances of getting killed after all this crap that was going on in her life. It's a sad fact that this is actually exactly when many victims of murder become victims, something happens that causes them to let their guard down. That is simply a fact. Sad but true
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Since: Feb 12
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BobJenkins-OG wrote: <quoted text>
Lighthouse that's funny, you think she didn't get killed because the chances were only .00125%?
Well what are the chances of someone winning the powerball jackpot? 0.000000005706996738%
Yet someone wins powerball all the time
The whole 'what are the chances' argument is just weak, the chances of getting murdered are always extremely low, yet people get murdered all the time.
There was a serial killer in the ct river valley not too long ago, all those victims had extremely low chances of bein killed, yet they were. Jenkins - Your arguing that every possible outcome should be weighed equally because it could happen? I'd like you to support the Lighthouse meteor theory. I'll type it out in your honor: I believe she ran into the woods to hide just for an hour than "Boom" a meteor hit her. Obviously noone is going to see the impact crater because the snow filled it in. It was a very smalled metoer only 10lbs in weight before hitting the atmosphere. Once it hit the Atmoshpere it burned down to the size of 1-2 lbs. You can clearly tell that this is the case. The WM's were wrong they didn't see a cigerette they saw the meteor in the distance being reflected off the window. MM probably had jewlery on and the static electricity of her running clearly created an electric charge that magnetized her jewlery and attracted the meteor and changed its decent path. This has to be taken seriously because meteors hit the earth "all the time". The police chief is such an idiot I have no idea why this wouldn't be one of the first scenarios that come to mind. Clearly if the chief studied astronomy in highschool he would have solved this case, but since he hasn't he doesn't want anyone to know that he isn't qualified so he is clearly covering it up. You can see in the court documents the third party intercept - was clearly, clearly a wire tap on a NASA's official phone. He wants to find out what NASA knows or doesn't know about the meteor.
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