Maura Murray

Bobjenkins-OG wrote:

Another quote from Maribeth conway's "Maura is missing" 'part III'.
"The abrupt loss of Maura's scent in the middle of the road prompted officials to speculate that Maura got into a passing vehicle. Whether she did so voluntarily or was forced remains open to question."
In this she pretty clearly states that officials believe she entered a vehicle. There are several other earlier news reports that say the same thing basically, that LE believes she caught a ride but what happened after that is unclear.

Jenkins, you've made your point countless times that you believe Maura did not enter the woods where she might have perished, but that she might have entered a passing vehicle before disappearing. Is it reasonable to allow others to believe what they wish, to agree or disagree, and just let it go?
I'm changing my name to OKAY. OKAY, I hear you. OKAY, I get it. OK, OK, OK!!!

Actually does anybody know of any article anywhere; any quote anywhere from any LE agency that indicates they believe she might have entered the woods?
I'm not saying it doesn't exist but I don't know of one quote that is anything like that. Every quote from LE that I've seen either says they believe she may have caught a ride or they believe she caught a ride. I've never seen a quote where they say they believe she may have entered the woods of believe she entered the woods.

It's interesting, pretty much every LEO who's spoken on record has basically said they believe she caught a ride. Most witnesses who've spoken on record has basically said the same thing. Most locals interviewed have said similar things as well, knowing that entering those woods in those conditions is just not very feasible.
The family said the same thing as well except they take it one step further & say they believe she was subsequently abducted.

It seems to me that the only people who seem to think that she entered the woods are some anonymous Internet posters who post on this forum, and a few others through the years. I wonder why that is... I also wonder why they care soooo much about trying to convince people of this that they actually get belligerent regarding othe theories. It's weird.

Another quote from scarinza referencing How much snow was on the ground:

"Nor was there any particular reason why the search was conducted Tuesday, said state police Lt. John Scarinza.
"There is no real reason," he said. "We have searched this area four times previously - the first ones were conducted when there was 2-1/2 feet of snow on the ground."

He clearly states there was 2.5' of snow on the ground, just like sbd said and other early articles said. 2.5', they all said that.

So bill: you still gonnra try to say I'm making it up? Where did you get your bullshit about there being little snowpack and that the snow was only built up to 2.5' on the edges of the road?? Sounds to me like you made that up because I can't find any quote remotely similar to that.
There are also articles that reference the snowbanks being 5-6' in some places, which is how I remember it. I drove 112 in the weeks following her dissapearance and was paying attention. I remember the snowbanks were big enough that they were winged back by the plows, cetainly not 2' like you said. Where did you get that from? Sounds like you just pulled that out of your ass.
I deal directly With witness statements and quotes, it sounds like your just making shit up because every thing you said directly contradicts what was said by LE and witnesses.

Simply Sarcasm wrote:

<quoted text>
The only thing I find of note in regards to her arrest is that she was (per Renner's blog entry) arrested at her dorm, and not taken into the station and formally booked.
I would imagine she would get a recog/promise to appear bond - but I would also have thought they'd have taken her into the station, formally booked her, and THEN released her.
It was odd, how they took her photo at the dorm, instead of at the station.

Was it Amherst police, or UMASS campus police? If UMASS campus, then maybe the dorm arrest and photo without her going to a police station, is how the campus police handle such things -- a little less formal -- possibly then turning their info over to Amherst. I would think that the UMASS police would have immediate jurisdiction, but I'm not certain about that.

It was the umass cops wasn't it?
They have jurisdiction and they are real, sworn police officers that even carry guns.

But your right, this is probably the procedure they follow when arresting someone for something minor in the dorms.

OKAY wrote:

<quoted text>
Jenkins, you've made your point countless times that you believe Maura did not enter the woods where she might have perished, but that she might have entered a passing vehicle before disappearing. Is it reasonable to allow others to believe what they wish, to agree or disagree, and just let it go?
I'm changing my name to OKAY. OKAY, I hear you. OKAY, I get it. OK, OK, OK!!!

Lol, okay, okay, I get it. My whole point is that it sounds like some people think its actually feasible that she went into the woods, as If it's easy to just walk into the woods at night through 2.5' of snow.
It also sounds like some people believe this is feasible because of what people like bill are saying. But remember, he's talking out his ass.

He just said that there wasn't 2' of snow on the ground but rather that's what it was built up to on the sides of the road, which I just showed is clearly wrong.
He also just said that the snow was frozen hard to make it sound like she could've just easily walked into the woods without leaving a trail. This is obviously wrong too.

It's technically possible that she's in the woods, & anybody is welcome to their opinion.
My problem is when people use bullshit facts to try to convince others that she could've entered the woods fairly easily & it's likely this happened. Bill makes it sound like he's the top outdoors expert in the world, & he does sound experienced. So he must've been lying when he just said that about early February snow being crusty, dudes clearly wrong and I suspect he's smart enough to know that.
He is describing what's generally called 'late season' snow, citi saw this kind of snow when she went up Nh toward the end of march. It's snow that's melted and then froze again, making it solid enough to walk on without leaving tracks. Down in CT snow is like that in feb but generally in Nh the snow is finally gettinfnbuilt up by the beginning of feb and usually still soft too, NH the temps stay down and we usually don't experience snow starting to melt until about march.
In '93 when I was 14 and I Spent my 1st winter in NH I was shocked how different the snow was. There was so much more but the snow actually stayed soft, it didn't freeze into ice like it does in CT, awesome sledding snow.

Then I hear someone say something like 'she was scared of the cops so I think she just ran into the woods real quick'.
This is my point, there's no such thing 'running into the woods real quick' when there's 2.5' of snow on the ground. Why do you think the serchers had to wear snowshoes?
ve someone like bill, who claims to be an outdoor expert, and people believing that he is, saying this it makes it sound like her entering the woods is much easier prospect than it truly is.

I've know a real lot of college age girls, I went to college in Nh & VT so almost all in the north country. I've never known one girl, even the most hardiest of outdoors girls, who would ever enter the woods under conditions like that by themselves at night. It's theoretically possible but in practice it's actually a ridiculous suggestion. My problem is people sounding like experts and using made up facts to support what they're saying.

I'm just trying to stop the spread of bullshit, trying to stem the tide if you will.

But either way, I think I've made my point and your point is taken, okay.

Bobjenkins-OG wrote:

<quoted text>
... I've know a real lot of college age girls, I went to college in Nh & VT so almost all in the north country. I've never known one girl, even the most hardiest of outdoors girls, who would ever enter the woods under conditions like that by themselves at night. It's theoretically possible but in practice it's actually a ridiculous suggestion.

Frankly, I did the above kind of thing as a child, would have done it when I was college age, and would do it now if I had what I thought was a good reason. People who are woods-wise might well do that. I suppose that, equally, people who are *not* woods-wise might do it.

I'm not trying to continue beating a dead horse issue of discussion, but simply pointing out that no one can say with a lot of certainty what a person will or will not do under any conditions. You may be right, that everyone you know or have known wouldn't go into snowy woods at night ... but you didn't know Maura so nothing certain can be said about what Maura's choice would be.

Another piece of evidence that shows bill is completely wrong about how much snow he said there was and that it was only built up to 2-3' along the edges of the road. Something that shows he's wrong is the fact that Maura couldn't open her door because of the snowbank.
It's been said that she couldn't open her door and had to squeeze out of her door, it's also been said that Sharon, iirc, saw a dent in the snowbank where she squeezed out of her door.
That means the snowbank was a considerabke size, prob about 4-5 in that area because I remember them being an easy 5-6' a few miles up the road when you started gettin up into kinsman notch.

Advocate wrote:

<quoted text>
Was it Amherst police, or UMASS campus police? If UMASS campus, then maybe the dorm arrest and photo without her going to a police station, is how the campus police handle such things -- a little less formal -- possibly then turning their info over to Amherst. I would think that the UMASS police would have immediate jurisdiction, but I'm not certain about that.

Hi, Advocate ~ It's a reasonable assumption to make that campus police could have jurisdiction to investigate and make the arrest. Or maybe not. How far does their authority extend? The question could be immediately cleared up by a phone calll and by asking general questions about those procedures. I don't feel comfortable making that inquiry, but perhaps someone else does. Then that piece of the debate could be put to rest.

Advocator wrote:

<quoted text>
Frankly, I did the above kind of thing as a child, would have done it when I was college age, and would do it now if I had what I thought was a good reason. People who are woods-wise might well do that. I suppose that, equally, people who are *not* woods-wise might do it.
I'm not trying to continue beating a dead horse issue of discussion, but simply pointing out that no one can say with a lot of certainty what a person will or will not do under any conditions. You may be right, that everyone you know or have known wouldn't go into snowy woods at night ... but you didn't know Maura so nothing certain can be said about what Maura's choice would be.

Yes, absolutely!

Sometimes I like to lurk and read here at the Bob Jenkins forum and see if anything NEW has been added concerning the missing college student Maura Murray.
Reminds of when I read The Stand by Stephen King. Hundreds of pages of minutia that took me so far from the story line. Finished the book out of sheer will power and really have had a hard time reading him ever since. Maybe it's my fault, I have a short attention span, but, Seriously Jenky, you need to hire an editor!

Wowzer the real one wrote:

<quoted text>
Going by the ribbon tree today two things came to mind. IMHO I think it's a waste of time and money to put signs on trees and poles here in the mountains. The newest sign that was put up on the tree is already looking frazzled and someone would have to stop and get out to really see the picture and writing. I imagine it will likely sail off into the woods with this storm that's coming. Another bit of advice (not that it's worth anything) is if you want to put a poster on a tree it's a good idea to ask permission from the person that owns the land that the tree is on. And never use screw or nails to put the sign up.If someone got out of their car and started pounding nails in a tree that I owned without even asking I'd be irate.Eventually it could kill the tree. A stapler does just fine. JMHO

The posters were stapled onto the tree. The original posters and ribbon that were hung up on the tree in the beginning remained on the tree for several years.

Bobjenkins-OG wrote:

Another piece of evidence that shows bill is completely wrong about how much snow he said there was and that it was only built up to 2-3' along the edges of the road. Something that shows he's wrong is the fact that Maura couldn't open her door because of the snowbank.
It's been said that she couldn't open her door and had to squeeze out of her door, it's also been said that Sharon, iirc, saw a dent in the snowbank where she squeezed out of her door.
That means the snowbank was a considerabke size, prob about 4-5 in that area because I remember them being an easy 5-6' a few miles up the road when you started gettin up into kinsman notch.

Jesus bob. Are you really that big a dolt. As long as the snow was 8 inches high. If it was as solid as it was on the day of the accident, not weeks later. That is all it would take to keep Maura from opening her door and needing to squeeze out. Her needing to squeeze out the door only means the door couldn't open wide. Not how high the snow was.

While I have no doubt you'll be spewing posts (I won't have the time or interest to read) anyways, I'm afraid I'll be busy here so won't answer for a while. But please, ramble on. I'll get back to you when I can.

If you want to do something productive in the meantime. Please point to these statements that can be verified about the conditions on the ground, before and during the night of Maura's run away. Not weeks later watching Billy stomp around in the snow. You are saying that the police and others are talking about the conditions on 2/9. Lets see them.

Someone who lives in that area says that there were actually areas with bare spots at that time. But, please, lets hear your evidence.

Bill

Bobjenkins-OG wrote:

<quoted text>
Lol, okay, okay, I get it.

But either way, I think I've made my point and your point is taken, okay.

Well, kiddo, thank you for meeting me halfway. I grew up in CT in a time when we had harsh winters, deep snow and thick icing. Northern New England weather is typically worse than CT, but in any case, winters have noticeably and significantly warmed over the past two decades to the point of being mild. I remember minus 20 or 10 degree weather with winds whipping sideways and zero visibility off the mountain at Stowe, but in recent years, it's often unseasonably warm in January with heavy rains and mud ruts that are usually typical of spring.
I happen to share Bill's opinion that running into the woods is a possibility, especially if she was in a panic.
The fact that there is no evidence of her belongings or her body would seem to support that opinion.
On the other hand, you've documented opinions to suggest she might have accepted a ride away from the crash site. She might have taken a ride and then ran off into woods and perished at another location.
If anyone could definitely prove A, B or C we wouldn't be talking about Maura so many years later. She'd be found by now.
I'd be surprised if Renner has any more factual information than is already known to LE, but perhaps he has gathered as much as is known to family and PIs, which is less than the public currently knows.

Bobjenkins-OG wrote:

<quoted text>ve someone like bill, who claims to be an outdoor expert, and people believing that he is, saying this it makes it sound like her entering the woods is much easier prospect than it truly is.

Bobby, bobby, bobby. I have never said that I was an outdoor expert, though I have no doubt I know reams more than you and have had experiences you haven't had in your dreams or nightmares.

I have seen people run off into the woods, personally. I saw a busload of people run off into the woods once on one of the worst snow storms we had at night in CT after a bus crash. Funny story. So don't tell me that people don't run off into the woods after car accidents into the snow dressed in any conceivable footwear or apparel. I have seen it.

Bill

OKAY wrote:

<quoted text>
Well, kiddo, thank you for meeting me halfway. I grew up in CT in a time when we had harsh winters, deep snow and thick icing. Northern New England weather is typically worse than CT, but in any case, winters have noticeably and significantly warmed over the past two decades to the point of being mild. I remember minus 20 or 10 degree weather with winds whipping sideways and zero visibility off the mountain at Stowe, but in recent years, it's often unseasonably warm in January with heavy rains and mud ruts that are usually typical of spring.
I happen to share Bill's opinion that running into the woods is a possibility, especially if she was in a panic.
The fact that there is no evidence of her belongings or her body would seem to support that opinion.
On the other hand, you've documented opinions to suggest she might have accepted a ride away from the crash site. She might have taken a ride and then ran off into woods and perished at another location.
If anyone could definitely prove A, B or C we wouldn't be talking about Maura so many years later. She'd be found by now.
I'd be surprised if Renner has any more factual information than is already known to LE, but perhaps he has gathered as much as is known to family and PIs, which is less than the public currently knows.

I think it is very possible that MM was scared and might have suffered a panic attack. When people are going through a panic attack most rational sense is lost.

In one of the ID shows a girl who went missing suffered a panic attack and ran into a deep thicket and it took months or a year for LE and searchers to find her. The thicket was in Long Island and wasn't even that big. When her body was found no one knew how why she was so determined to enter the thicket. However the last person who saw her said she was showing signs of a panic attack and took off running.

Wowzer the real one wrote:

<quoted text>Yes they are the kind that produce syrup. I love pure maple syrup. Thanks for the offer Emmett. That is kind of you but I'me actually surrounded by trees. My area is mostly woods which is why it's so easy for people to get lost.

I have to laugh at some of these judge icons. I'm scratching my head trying to figure out how it's incendiary to thank someone. LOL

Wowzer the real one wrote:

<quoted text>Yes they are the kind that produce syrup. I love pure maple syrup. Thanks for the offer Emmett. That is kind of you but I'me actually surrounded by trees. My area is mostly woods which is why it's so easy for people to get lost.

Its ok.. I coulda gotten it to you without havin to know ur real name :).. I sent a bunch out to my friends in NY.. I was gonna send a VA Dogwood, its a Beautiful tree! The blossoms are real beautiful... Idk if it would live in ur weather or not though..

I guess what we call Maples arent real Maples if they dont have the syrup right?? I know all the old timers that were outside when we were planting them reffered to them as "Tulip Trees" due to their beautiful pinkish blossoms but I asked about it cus I know tulips are flowers & they told me they are Maples, just a down south reference to them.. On the Discovery channel I seen a bunch of the ones with surup, a whole forest full, in Vermont & they had these bucket looking things on them to catch the syrup!!! I bet it would be great to have some fresh out the bucket & use to eat!! Thats kinda like the bee keepers here, the fresh honey is amazing!!!

Bobjenkins-OG wrote:

I've never known one girl, even the most hardiest of outdoors girls, who would ever enter the woods under conditions like that by themselves at night. It's theoretically possible but in practice it's actually a ridiculous suggestion. My problem is people sounding like experts and using made up facts to support what they're saying.

I know people too. And I know 99.9% of all college students wouldn't randomly leave school when the semester just started. That is very irrational.

I also don't think loading your car up with alchol and going on a road trip where chances are she was probably drinking and driving as rational.

I also don't understand after crashing a car in the middle of no where anyone would want to leave their car - thats not rational.

I also don't think its rational to drink at a party and then at 2:30 AM get in a car to go see your father - to me thats not rational.

I don't know how you can use a "that's ridiculous" defense when explaining MM going into the woods.

And again I have mentioned this before and I'll say it again. I think it is ridiculous to think MM would have got into a car with a stranger. Any female knows not to get into a car with a stranger. I'm willing to bet if people her age were asked option A. Get into car with stranger or B. go into woods and sober up for a couple of hours I bet 90% take option B.

citigirl wrote:

<quoted text>The posters were stapled onto the tree. The original posters and ribbon that were hung up on the tree in the beginning remained on the tree for several years.

I realize that citigirl. I wasn't referring to the original poster or ribbon on that tree.