Maura Murray

hannah_b wrote:

So, should we conclude FW saw the red light from the travel charger?

hannah, I'm just amazed you need to have this conversation again...and again....and again. I feel quite certain you participated in this same conversation in the past. Next comes whether MM owned both a car charger or only a wall charger, and, of course, that has not be determined. When in doubt, default to the Londonderry ping or the rag in the tailpipe.
Someone drops a tidbit and all the mice rush in the direction of the crumb to keep the inane discussion going.
Bill might find it entertaining, but I am interested in the psychology of 256,410 posts of questionable value, and the potential for a Topix record-setting score.

hannah_b wrote:

Would the red light from a phone charger inside the car be visible from FW´s position?

No, absolutely not. The car was facing the MN's making it impossible to see from the dash down. And we all know how far down a cigarette lighter is. The charger was established as having a red light, ever so TINY light that would be red in color while plugged in. But only on the charger, not the phone.
If however, Maura tried moving the cell around her faceplate on the phone would stay lit for 10 seconds, 15 seconds.....whatever she had set it to.
The thing that bothers me is how could Faith actually think this was a man. Forget the smoking part of it. She said man. Not youth, not teenybopper, short for a guy, must be young....

The light would not be from the charger, the charger would've been plugged into the cigarette lighter.

That model of phone had the led next to the hinge, from what maruchan posted it appears that light would've been lit up if she had it charging, which she probably did. She was leaving her car so it was probably a good idea to charge the phone as much as possible, even if just for a few mins while sitting there trying to use it.

I thought the settings on the light could also be changed to do different things.

So it's pretty clear the phone did have a light.

Another comment I wanna make is that on those phones the led was kind of big, it wasn't just one of those tiny little dot-type lights like are on most car chargers. It was fairly big and kind of a dull red; thinking about it I could see it possibly being mistaken for what a cigarette might look like from 50' away.
Also she was trying to use her phone but had no signal; so that means she probably put it up to her ear and held it down to look at the screen a few times. That is probably exactly why FW thought she was smoking a cig, that is kind of the motion of smoking if you think about.

Thinking about the light that was on the phone and the motion she would've been making while trying to use the phone a few times it's finally making sense to me how FW may have mistaken her phone for a stoge.

BobJenkins-OG wrote:

The light would not be from the charger, the charger would've been plugged into the cigarette lighter.
That model of phone had the led next to the hinge, from what maruchan posted it appears that light would've been lit up if she had it charging, which she probably did. She was leaving her car so it was probably a good idea to charge the phone as much as possible, even if just for a few mins while sitting there trying to use it.
I thought the settings on the light could also be changed to do different things.
So it's pretty clear the phone did have a light.
Another comment I wanna make is that on those phones the led was kind of big, it wasn't just one of those tiny little dot-type lights like are on most car chargers. It was fairly big and kind of a dull red; thinking about it I could see it possibly being mistaken for what a cigarette might look like from 50' away.
Also she was trying to use her phone but had no signal; so that means she probably put it up to her ear and held it down to look at the screen a few times. That is probably exactly why FW thought she was smoking a cig, that is kind of the motion of smoking if you think about.
Thinking about the light that was on the phone and the motion she would've been making while trying to use the phone a few times it's finally making sense to me how FW may have mistaken her phone for a stoge.

Heh, now I am agreeing with you and giving you checkmarks, lightbulbs and life preservers - the world has truly gone mad.:)

Nhlover wrote:

<quoted text>
You guys sound like a bunch of negative hillbillys. I was just telling you what I found and where. It turned out it was a flip phone mm had. But wow! I'm an intelligent person. I can see why Fred wants nothing to do with all of this. Good luck

Cynical? Yes
Negative? Yes
Bunch of bastards? Yes, sometimes.

But I wouldn't call them hillbillys, they're all online and many of them seem rather tech-savvy...a lot more than I am at least.

When I think of hillbillys I think of sitting on a front porch in Appalachia with a cob pipe, a banjo and a bottle of moonshine, not posting in online forums about missin people.

Besides, some skepticism is a good thing to have, particularly in a case like this. There's been a lot of people over the years who've come on with a bunch of weird info that turned out to be complete bullshit, so I can see where the skepticism is coming from.

But I do agree with you about lighthouses post, it was a rather snarky comment that he made, completely negative and not even accurate at all; making it out like people are intentionally trying to add mystery to the case. Maybe some people do that every now and again intentionally, i don't know, but that certainly is not a common occurrence by any means.
Idk what happened to lighthouse in the past couple months, dude turned into just such a negative person. He used to post very even handed posts and was just completely different. It's almost like someone else pirated his account and is pretending to be him, I would not be surprised.
Lighthouse- did your girlfriend break up with you or somethin? Where did this sudden turn to negativity come from?

Maruchan wrote:

<quoted text>
Heh, now I am agreeing with you and giving you checkmarks, lightbulbs and life preservers - the world has truly gone mad.:)

I know, we've agreed twice in the past couple days.
I'm scared......LOL

Just had to make a comment on this.

It snowed today in ct, only about 5-6". The roads were pretty bad but nothin too crazy.

I was wearing sneakers, merrells, they look like hiking boots but are really just sneakers, they're like halfway between a true low-top sneaker like Maura was wearing and high-top like a pair of hiking boots.
I had to walk up my driveway and my walk through the snow as i hadn't shoveled yet.

Well just walking about 40' through 6" of snow my shoes got completely full of snow and there was a bunch of snow in the bottom of my jeans. My feet were freekin freezing! My socks were completely soaked by the time I walked through the door. That was like an hour ago and I'm still sitting here in front of the heater I got in my living room.

That night in Nh there was 2.5' of snow on the ground. Maura was wearing true low top sneakers, those addidas-style that look like soccer shoes. Her shoes would've been packed full of snow after like 3 steps, her jeans too. Her feet would've been SOAKED almost instantly and her feet would've been FREEZING. she was already shivering when the sbd arrived.

People actually seem to think 'oh she ran into the woods real quick to think'. That is just ridiculous to suggest, IMO completely ridiculous.
I think that anyone who's suggesting that either has no idea what NH winters are like and what it's like to walk through feet of snow, or they aren't being honest. I see no other possibilities.

I just walked like 40' through 6" of snow and I swear to god my feet were freekin FREEZING, soaking wet and FREEZING cold. My feet are still cold!

Lol, since snowy brought up the now infamous 'Londonderry ping' I have a question about it.

What was the final conclusion on that, the general consensus as to the legitimacy of that affidavit?

Was it real or fake?
It looked real to me but then after reading all the post from the topix poster 'dawn' I'm not so sure. She made a damn strong argument to that being a fake document.

So what was the general consensus? Was a consensus ever reached?

mcsmom wrote:

Ugh another storm coming....
Thanks to nhlover for the efforts to help.
The hair duct tape article appeared in the Union Leader, see below:
mcsmom wrote:
<quoted text>
I was following websleuths at the time, where I saw the matthew post.
If this information is one in the same (it seems quite possible) Matthew's hair/cloths/duct tape sighting might be credible and mcsmom is correct. On February 8, 2010 “Peabody” posted the following on Websleuths:
Link: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.p ...
Actual Post:
From the Union Leader
"Tests are being performed on possible new evidence in the mysterious disappearance six years ago of University of Massachusetts nursing student Maura Murray in Haverhill, according to Lt. James White, head of the New Hampshire State Police Major Crime Unit. Tuesday will mark the sixth anniversary of the day Murray vanished in the North Country after crashing her car on remote and winding Route 112 during a snowstorm shortly before 7:30 p.m. on Feb. 9, 2004.
Some time in the last two weeks, police received new information in the case, White said, though he declined to say exactly what it is.
This case is very much active." he said.
As a result of the new leads, White said, police collected items that are now in the process of being tested.
Union Leader...Nancy West 2/7/1 (February 7, 2010)
Article not online”
Note: "Matthew" posted his message on February 9th, 2010 on Amherst Topix.

Thanks for posting this. I hadn't seen it before. Since this was put out in the media by LE, I hope LE at least had the courtesy to inform Maura's family if the possible evidence turned out not to be connected to Maura. I see no harm in informing the family if it was in no way related to Maura.

BobJenkins-OG wrote:

Lol, since snowy brought up the now infamous 'Londonderry ping' I have a question about it.
What was the final conclusion on that, the general consensus as to the legitimacy of that affidavit?
Was it real or fake?
It looked real to me but then after reading all the post from the topix poster 'dawn' I'm not so sure. She made a damn strong argument to that being a fake document.
So what was the general consensus? Was a consensus ever reached?

Jenky,

I'll take a stab.

I believe it to be real but that is not really the point.

We have to understand are we looking at a document that holds a clue or are we just looking at a document that was made early on and police have already unearthed the findings they were after from submitting the document and the results of all of that have already been solved and the document itself is a non-issue anymore.

Go back and read (not the earliest) but the second wave of articles done on maura and you will see that the news reports unveil that maura checked her phone for messages one final time late in the afternoon of the day she went missing.

That is the result of what was discovered from that document.

If you just came across that affadavit today, you would think hmm. londonderry ... we have a new clue in the maura case.

But in reality, her cell phone pinged to the londonderry tower as she was driving up north and police do know that info already that is how they determined that she was checking her own messages.

Orko Kringer wrote:

<quoted text>
But in reality, her cell phone pinged to the londonderry tower as she was driving up north and police do know that info already that is how they determined that she was checking her own messages.

They would have known that she was checking her own messages from her cell phone bill. Also, they don't appear to have been looking for calls she made:
"7. Based on the foregoing, there is probable cause to believe evidence in the suspicious disappearance of Maura Murray may be found through Sprint Wireless Cell Tower Telephone Records, including any outgoing calls from the Londonderry tower of Sprint TO Maura Murrays Sprint PCs number..."

Not so wrote:

<quoted text>
They would have known that she was checking her own messages from her cell phone bill. Also, they don't appear to have been looking for calls she made:
"7. Based on the foregoing, there is probable cause to believe evidence in the suspicious disappearance of Maura Murray may be found through Sprint Wireless Cell Tower Telephone Records, including any outgoing calls from the Londonderry tower of Sprint TO Maura Murrays Sprint PCs number..."

We are talking about "pings" here. Whenever maura turns on her phone it naturally sends pings to the nearest cell tower.

If she was driving and the closest tower was londonderry and she briefly turned her phone on (like someone would do to check for messages) then the ping is going to the londonderry tower and bouncing back to her phone. She is making an outgoing call when she checks her messages.

But hold on orky- how could she have possibly pinged the Londonderry tower she was really far away from Londonderry.

Also didn't the affidavit state that it wants information on a ping to the tower that was in relation to an attempt to call Maura's phone?. Meaning it was about an incoming call to her phone Not an outgoing call from her phone.

I read the affidavit, that's what was meant from what I could tell. That's also what renner said, that LE was trying to find the identity of someone who called maura and who's phone pinged off that tower while trying to do it.

Only problem is that the document could very well be fake. Have you read the posts by 'dawn? I believe they can be found early in this thread.
She makes a very strong argument for the document behind fake and actually not making any sense in regards to how cell phones/cell towers really work and just the way the it was written, according to dawn. Idk, she mad a very strong case for it being fake.

The thing that made me question her though was how the document was found. It was supposedly found through legitimate means, and unless renner was in on it, or he got totally scammed, then it would seem like it could be real. I think it was dawn, but someone suggested that the fake document was planted in the records by someone expecting whoever actually found it to go looking for it. That whole thing didn't make any sense. The whole thing around the Londonderry ping is just weird.
At this point I kind of an leaning toward it being real. Renner believes it to be legit, he's put his name out there and his reputation is on the line, I would have to lean toward believing what he has to say over some anonymous poster. She was just saying things that we were supposed to take her word for cuz she claimed to have worked for a phone company and sure talked a good game.

But orky- you consider the document to be real, correct?
And why do you think it had anything to do with her checking her voicemails? Renner said it was looking for an INCOMING call. The document was talking about someone calling Maura. What makes you think it's for an outbound call? How could she possibly have pinged the Londonderry tower from 70 miles away? That's an estimate btw

What makes you think it was her checking her messages? Why would they need an affidavit for that two years later anyways? They had her phone records, they knew she checked her vmail since like the first week didn't they?

Orko Kringer wrote:

<quoted text>
We are talking about "pings" here. Whenever maura turns on her phone it naturally sends pings to the nearest cell tower.
If she was driving and the closest tower was londonderry and she briefly turned her phone on (like someone would do to check for messages) then the ping is going to the londonderry tower and bouncing back to her phone. She is making an outgoing call when she checks her messages.

Orky- there is no point on her trip that Londonderry would be the closest tower, not even close. Especially with all the hills I don't see how her phone could've possibly hit that tower.

Also, as 'not so' posted above, the affidavit was clearly talking about an INCOMING call to her phone. Besides the fact that they knew her incoming calls since day one.
Also very on in the investigation they definitively were checking her phones for pings, that's a way many people have been located by their cell phone pings/final pings. They were able to do that in the days following her dissapearance with permission from Sharon, the owner of the cell phone contract, and help from sprint.
That affidavit was something completely different than searching for her cell phone pings, that's looking for someone else's phone # that tried calling her phone and who's phone pinged the Londonderry tower, completely different than her phone pinging while checking her messages.

Amy- I agree, what harm could possibly come from telling the family it's NOT connected to MM, the public too.
Idk, you would think the general public would be a little mee concerned about someone's hair being found stuck to duct tape in the woods. Who's hair is it? It must be someone's. It might be nothing but hair and duct tape is classic evidence in murder cases nowadays.
This is not as bad but along the same lines as the skull found in VT. How are people not more concerned about this? They just find skulls in Vt now and nobody thinks anything of it?there's been a couple articles it took over two years to even determine if it was definitely a female skull, nobody is worried about the fact that they're finding skulls in the woods of vt? Or duct tape with hair stuck In it in nh?

Wowzer- you hunt don't you? I take it you probably know a lot of hunters in the area?
A fairly high percentage of the people up there hunt, like all 5 or 6 people I know that live in woodsville/ n Haverhill area all hunt. Including the girls.
Have you ever hunted anywhere in the forest between the WB curve and north Woodstock?

Would you agree that is a popular place for hunting?
As far as I've always been concerned that is not the kind of area you go hiking for fun in the fall time, that is more of a hunting area than a recreational hiking area. No real hiking trails, too many hunters. You'd better be wearing orange. All just forest. Perfect hunting grounds. When you drive down 112 during hunting season you'll see many trucks parked along the road, mostly in the fire road turn offs that are gated, people walk in from there.
I'm not a hunter but I bet it's great hunting in there. I know that my old roommate who's from woodsville used to go hunting in that area ever year with his grandfather who's a woodsville native, they always got deer too. My freezer was full of venison.

I'm just wondering if you would agree that area of 112 between the WB curve, well really a few miles up the the rd from there, to north Woodstock is a very popular hunting ground?

What about on the other side of the rd. this side with the river on it? Do people hunt that side too or is it not as easy to access?

Off topic but, just a quick little fun fact.
Wanna know what the most searched term on google yesterday on election day was? Who's running for president! Thats right, That was the most searched term yesterday, who's runnin for president!!!
Apparently that term spiked in October but then in the last few days it was searched more than ever lol. Damn, people are out of touch huh ?7

BobJenkins-OG wrote:

Off topic but, just a quick little fun fact.
Wanna know what the most searched term on google yesterday on election day was? Who's running for president! Thats right, That was the most searched term yesterday, who's runnin for president!!!
Apparently that term spiked in October but then in the last few days it was searched more than ever lol. Damn, people are out of touch huh ?7

Cool! Also glad to know your interests span other "topix"! And look at that...a concise post, Jenky! I'd say things are lookiing up.:)

Nhlover wrote:

<quoted text>
Cynical person, huh? Had nothing to do with a mystery. If you had read the whole post you would have seen that he wasn't thinking of mm, he had just found a phone. Period. It was only after the whole thing I began to think it may have something to do with it. Please try to be nicer on these forums. People who come here tend to care about this case and what the outcome is. If you "don't care enough" to check something out, as you stated, then maybe you should move on in life and find something you do care about.
It's ashame that an attitude has to come towards a person just trying to help. Also if you had read, I did contact other people regarding the phone. No one followed up with me. Which is why i have little faith that they will solve this. Here in Colorado they followed up on over 5000 leads to find the murderer of a little girl, in about 2 weeks. EVERY lead is important when you are stalled in an investigation.

Read my post again. I didnt care to check because I thought your story made
No sense. I didn't want to give you the satisfaction that I wasted time from your bs.

Now after all your bs and your deep jabs at LE not being interested it seems the found you found didn't even match her make or model. I wonder how fm would feel if he organized a search party to find a phone that had nothing to do with the case.

Two years you had to review to see if it was the proper phone before entering this useless data onto a forum of a missing girl. You claim to be intelligent and I believe you are, so why didn't you check this info out before raising people's hopes up about finding the right phone?

Orko Kringer wrote:

<quoted text>
Jenky,
I'll take a stab.
I believe it to be real but that is not really the point.
We have to understand are we looking at a document that holds a clue or are we just looking at a document that was made early on and police have already unearthed the findings they were after from submitting the document and the results of all of that have already been solved and the document itself is a non-issue anymore.
Go back and read (not the earliest) but the second wave of articles done on maura and you will see that the news reports unveil that maura checked her phone for messages one final time late in the afternoon of the day she went missing.
That is the result of what was discovered from that document.
If you just came across that affadavit today, you would think hmm. londonderry ... we have a new clue in the maura case.
But in reality, her cell phone pinged to the londonderry tower as she was driving up north and police do know that info already that is how they determined that she was checking her own messages.

Do you know anything about your friends book? Do you think the tower will have its own chapter?