Maura Murray

BobJenkins-OG wrote:

<quoted text>Most murders get solved for one simple reason, the vast majority (90%+) of murders the victim knows the perp.

And of course another partial truth. The other part, and even more important is that they have a body. Something to examine to determine first, if there was a death and second, if it was a death, was it by natural causes, suicide or homicide.

Again, I haven't read all of your posts, I just happened to spot this tidbit while pursuing. So if you remembered to add this information later, good job. Usually though the second and third posts are just a rehash of the first post.

Bill

BobJenkins-OG wrote:

<quoted text>
It just seems like some of them have a vested interest in deflecting the convo & making her look bad; Like she was a stupid drunk promiscuous thief. Making her look like that makes many people just not care as much. I'd bet any money that you would be extremely hard pressed to find one person who actually knew her that Would describe her like that, yet people on here say it as if its fact. Hmmm People are calling her a thief but I'd bet anything there's not one person who knew her that wouldn't have her over their house. Sounds like she was invited to a lot of parties, she obviously wasn't branded a thief by any stretch of the imagination. people don't invite thieves to their dorm rooms for parties, they don't invite thieves to their home for a party on NYE either. She obviously used someone else's cc which isn't right, but to just flat out characterize her as a thief ain't right either.

The best point you ever made. Using a party invite list as a character example. Your right that a "thief" as you say would probably not be invited. But from my college experience if a guy is throwing a party or if you want guys to attend "stupid drunk promiscuous" are words that might peak their interest.

I did not say MM was any of these things. I just wanted to show you how you change your argument in mid paragraph.

Your edited statement looks good: "Sounds like she was invited to a lot of parties, she obviously wasn't branded a thief by any stretch of the imagination"

If you make the statement with the full characteristics you mentioned: " Sounds like she was invited to a lot of parties, she obviously wasn't branded a stupid drunk promiscuous thief by any stretch of the imagination" - could be easily refuted.

OKAY wrote:

Jenky-sleuth writes -
."Most murders get solved for one simple reason, the vast majority (90%+) of murders the victim knows the perp. If it was someone Maura knew who killed her this case would've been solved a Long time ago, well I would think. LE would look extremely bad if it turns out some new bf of hers or someone who hit vasi whilst driving her car or someone who's cc she used killed her, like really bad. How hard is that to figure out??"
So, she uses someone's credit card and that person kills her. Solved.
Why couldn't I think of that?
And, look, he even puts in a percentage. Must have taken statistics.
"Freeking" genius!. Damn trolls keep spoiling his day..

I would think it would be very easy for LE to prove who if any of her friends were missing from school that day. Another reason why I think their was no foul play. Most of the "suspect list" if there is any is all in one place, which makes efforts much easy to investigate.

Maybe a couple of other "random" suspects but most of the people who knew her where in one generalized location.

Your saying "divert" like this thread is the "missing piece of the puzzle".. Just this one alone is almost 3 years old & to my knowledge, no one from this thread has solved anything.. Its not like everyone here is a "team" that actually works together getting "the job done"..

It's mostly theories & arguments.. Its always the same posters, so by calling her a thief diverted it away from who?? One of your supporters asked several questions about cc fraud & the actions one would maybe do.. I simply said they might have had a lil fight but would not kill her over $80.. There are documents that support her stealing.. & using my personal info to try & prove a point didnt work at all & im not going to be compared to a thief.. Do I like "putting her down"? NO & I wish it would go away, but when people bring my name into something that has no bearing whatsoever on the outcome, im going to express my opinions..

Yea, what college guys wouldnt want a girl that likes to party at their party? All of the stuff I stated are KNOWN facts.. Maybe she made a simple mistake the First time she stole a dorm mates reciept out of the trash can of all places & decided to use it..

Identity theft is a huge problem in America & at the time all of this started, it was the "lime-light" of the Nigerian 409 scams..

She was in a bad place in her life in the months leading up to what happened.. Once she was caught, how does anyone know that word about what was going on hadnt spread across the dorm she was in?

Information not given to LE at those critial 48-72 hours after her disapperance, just to try & "save face" , didnt help LE.. Did we really need to know? NO, but the cops did!! Still family keeps info about her life so close to vest & away from LE it doesnt make sense.. The main slogan for the ID Show is "actions, movements in the days leading up to a dissaperance is critical to solving a case"..(I cant remember the whole slogan)..

So, again, who are anyone that post on Topix diverting anything from? Get jumped on for being nice to one another & asking how peoples holidays went, food talk, sports, etc.. Who are we bothering? When you brought up your past troubles, your friends troubles, being able to carry a gun in every state, etc; That could be considered the same thing, but did people say you were diverting? I for one have never been to those states up yonder.. I learned that all the theories I had & posted, didnt help anything.. The only times is when someone like JR post some new info that is confirmed as a fact.. Since he is no longer doing it & pretty much said "the book will be out in 2014", to be frank & honest.. People that are still here just talking to one another are doing something positive - Keeping the thread about her Alive! Keeping it known.. & when people watch the ID Netowork or the show on Netflix & come here, they can read & post..

If you have REAL info, report it to CCU.. Everything else is just "banther" between people wanting to know & trying to figure it out + some friendly conversations untill people accuse other people of stuff.. LE probably knows everyone that has ever posted here & if you really want to read old stuff from Advocaters forum, use a "time machine" from google to read through it..

If I wanna talk pies & trees, I will.. This is a public thread & tbh, someone shouldnt ask my opinion about something if they dont want to hear my answer..

BobJenkins-OG wrote:

Looking at this case as a whole objectively I don't see how anyone can honestly come to any other conclusion except that LE believes she was murdered, they believe they know who did it and are trying to build a prosecution against this person.

At anytime you change an assumption - or modify the information as you go in a post to make a point. Any reasonable person will question if you could look at this case objectively.

Habs wrote:

I wonder if Maura was insistent on returning to her fathers motel room because she needed to talk to him about what had upset her. The crash screwed that up and screwed her out of the new car on Sunday. She never got to discuss here problem with her father. Thinking out loud, sorry.

Fred said "all the car places were closed" and mentioned Sunday in the exact quote.
Is this what he meant? Are some/all car dealers closed on Sunday?
Not that it matters much. But that might be a reason to make Maura wait until the foloowing week.

Habs wrote:
I wonder if Maura was insistent on returning to her fathers motel room because she needed to talk to him about what had upset her.

Yes, even Billy thought it had to be about much more than having just crashed her Dads car. He had to talk a long time to calm her down.

Just me--paris wrote:

<quoted text>
Fred said "all the car places were closed" and mentioned Sunday in the exact quote.
Is this what he meant? Are some/all car dealers closed on Sunday?
Not that it matters much. But that might be a reason to make Maura wait until the foloowing week.

Fred has said several different things about this alleged car shopping trip & all of em can't be true.
Originally to the public he said they went car shopping on Saturday, looked at cars and had one picked out & he was gonna return the following week to buy it. This was def Saturday bc the story was they went out to the ABC after with Maura's friend, who didn't recall any mention of any car shopping btw.
Well ok but then in his written statement to umass cops he said that he brought $4,000 to buy a car with but didn't find one.
Both can't be true.

When exactly did he say the dealers were closed? That doesn't make much sense either bc most dealers are open on the weekends, Saturday being the biggest day of the week for most dealers. Most dealers are also open Sunday because those are the days most people have time to actually go look at cars.
So is there really 3 different stories from this guy?

BobJenkins-OG wrote:

<quoted text>
Fred has said several different things about this alleged car shopping trip & all of em can't be true.
Originally to the public he said they went car shopping on Saturday, looked at cars and had one picked out & he was gonna return the following week to buy it. This was def Saturday bc the story was they went out to the ABC after with Maura's friend, who didn't recall any mention of any car shopping btw.
Well ok but then in his written statement to umass cops he said that he brought $4,000 to buy a car with but didn't find one.
Both can't be true.
When exactly did he say the dealers were closed? That doesn't make much sense either bc most dealers are open on the weekends, Saturday being the biggest day of the week for most dealers. Most dealers are also open Sunday because those are the days most people have time to actually go look at cars.
So is there really 3 different stories from this guy?

Are the dealerships even mentioned in the police report?

BobJenkins-OG wrote:

<quoted text>
Fred has said several different things about this alleged car shopping trip & all of em can't be true.
Originally to the public he said they went car shopping on Saturday, looked at cars and had one picked out & he was gonna return the following week to buy it. This was def Saturday bc the story was they went out to the ABC after with Maura's friend, who didn't recall any mention of any car shopping btw.
Well ok but then in his written statement to umass cops he said that he brought $4,000 to buy a car with but didn't find one.
Both can't be true.
When exactly did he say the dealers were closed? That doesn't make much sense either bc most dealers are open on the weekends, Saturday being the biggest day of the week for most dealers. Most dealers are also open Sunday because those are the days most people have time to actually go look at cars.
So is there really 3 different stories from this guy?

Agree with you.. I watched the ID Show with some friends last night cus they asked me why I argue with Yanks on a message board & it seems at these moments..
1. When talking about the wreck of his car, we all came to the conclusion that he may have said some mean stuff to her by his body language & talking..
2. When saying he dropped her off at the dorm that morning, it seemed as a father he had a lil guilt cus he might have said something hurtfull or snapped after the wreck cus the wording up to when he says "& i dropped her off at the dorm & told her to get the insurance papers, it'll haunt me forever"..

Just IMHO it sounds like a father that may have said something mean & wished he could take it back.. I think many of us have said something to a family member we wished we could take back..

Also after re-watching - He said in his own words that "she woke him up at the hotel" so that should put some rest to the whole her sneaking in the room without a key..

& everywhere down south that I know of, most all dealerships are open 7 days a week, even the "buy here pay here no credit" ones.. They close early on Sunday but still open.. & Jenkins is right, for atleast where I live cus Sat is their bussiest day & all the major ones are open later on Sat than the rest of the week.. Now, I cant state this as a fact up yonder but down here its like that from SW Virginia to Richmond, to Greensboro & Charlotte NC..

Maybe this will help some people..

WTH-the-original wrote:

<quoted text>
And of course another partial truth. The other part, and even more important is that they have a body. Something to examine to determine first, if there was a death and second, if it was a death, was it by natural causes, suicide or homicide.
Again, I haven't read all of your posts, I just happened to spot this tidbit while pursuing. So if you remembered to add this information later, good job. Usually though the second and third posts are just a rehash of the first post.
Bill

See now this post is just more evidence that Yur full of shit bill. You've stated that exact same number in the past. It's a fact that over 90% of murder victims know their assailant, I think the number may even be higher than that, like 95%. This is why most murders get solved, which is also true. I don't see how you can debate that particularly when you've said the same exact thing in the past. Should I dig up the post? You've said the same exact thing in the past & now your trying to debate it, it takes a real piece of work to do that.

Now your obviously correct that this is assuming they have a body to determine the cause of death, your right but I don't see how that even needs to be said.
Damn that was a stupid post you made bill.
Remember bill, what you don't know could fill libraries, many many libraries actually.

Emmett Dove wrote:

2. When saying he dropped her off at the dorm that morning, it seemed as a father he had a lil guilt cus he might have said something hurtfull or snapped after the wreck cus the wording up to when he says "& i dropped her off at the dorm & told her to get the insurance papers, it'll haunt me forever"

I don't know how much anyone should actually pay attention to what FM states in the ID show. This is only my opinion but after reading over the police report made 02/22/04 he only states the towns that the dealerships are located in. If a car was picked out I would think he would be able to remember the name of the dealership. Its disappointing and I can't think of any reason why anyone would want to be vague with LE that is trying to help find your daughter.

BobJenkins-OG wrote:

<quoted text>
See now this post is just more evidence that Yur full of shit bill. You've stated that exact same number in the past. It's a fact that over 90% of murder victims know their assailant, I think the number may even be higher than that, like 95%. This is why most murders get solved, which is also true. I don't see how you can debate that particularly when you've said the same exact thing in the past. Should I dig up the post? You've said the same exact thing in the past & now your trying to debate it, it takes a real piece of work to do that.
Now your obviously correct that this is assuming they have a body to determine the cause of death, your right but I don't see how that even needs to be said.
Damn that was a stupid post you made bill.
Remember bill, what you don't know could fill libraries, many many libraries actually.

Bob, bob, bob. It's hard to believe how dense you are. I am fairly certain a diamond drill couldn't penetrate that skull of yours. In those times I might have been talking about the victim knowing their attacker. That would have been WHEN WE HAD A VICTIM. There is no known victim here. No body, no victim. Just an adult run away at this point. So, as usual, your lack of any basic knowledge about much of anything has caused you to again, jump to conclusions that have no real meaning. Just you rambling on about things you appear to really know little to nothing about. Now I am sure you will backpedal and come up with another lame concept about how I was wrong. It is OK though. The more you write, sorry, ramble on, I am certain the more people realize your "contributions" are quite lame. Again, Bob, go for quality, not quantity. Review what you write, see if it makes sense before pushing the post comment button. Better yet, have a trusted adult review it. See what they say before pushing the button.

Bill

Emmett Dove wrote:

<quoted text>
Agree with you.. I watched the ID Show with some friends last night cus they asked me why I argue with Yanks on a message board & it seems at these moments..
1. When talking about the wreck of his car, we all came to the conclusion that he may have said some mean stuff to her by his body language & talking..
2. When saying he dropped her off at the dorm that morning, it seemed as a father he had a lil guilt cus he might have said something hurtfull or snapped after the wreck cus the wording up to when he says "& i dropped her off at the dorm & told her to get the insurance papers, it'll haunt me forever"..
Just IMHO it sounds like a father that may have said something mean & wished he could take it back.. I think many of us have said something to a family member we wished we could take back..
Also after re-watching - He said in his own words that "she woke him up at the hotel" so that should put some rest to the whole her sneaking in the room without a key..
& everywhere down south that I know of, most all dealerships are open 7 days a week, even the "buy here pay here no credit" ones.. They close early on Sunday but still open.. & Jenkins is right, for atleast where I live cus Sat is their bussiest day & all the major ones are open later on Sat than the rest of the week.. Now, I cant state this as a fact up yonder but down here its like that from SW Virginia to Richmond, to Greensboro & Charlotte NC..
Maybe this will help some people..

In the police report as published on Renner´s blog, FM states that when he woke up the next morning, he found Maura sleeping in the bed. It appears she did indeed snuck in and go to sleep without waking him up. When she woke up, FM asked her something along the lines of "where is my car?".
I think FM´s many contradictions is very telling. Something was going on that he knew about, or possibly found out after her disappearance, but he´s not telling. One thing I would love to know is at what point in time did FM/family find out about the CC issue.

Lighthouse 101 wrote:

<quoted text>
I don't know how much anyone should actually pay attention to what FM states in the ID show. This is only my opinion but after reading over the police report made 02/22/04 he only states the towns that the dealerships are located in. If a car was picked out I would think he would be able to remember the name of the dealership. Its disappointing and I can't think of any reason why anyone would want to be vague with LE that is trying to help find your daughter.

This has always been the case; an endless history of information / stories "planted" since the very beginning....stories were told and embellished, and then endlessly repeated. Timelines, unless built from verified facts, are meaningless.
That's why I take some interest in Renner's take on the story. The real story.
And, yes, your observation about guarded information, right from the father down, is....well, suspicious, given you're desperately looking for your daughter.

In agreement with you all.. Just didnt want to say it the way I talk as I didnt wanna sound "mean".. A lot of what I try to say is "lost in translation" from where I talk different than yall.. Im not saying that to be mean, if yall talked to me, yall would laugh & I would prollay laugh at the very upstate accents :).. Like where yall say "cawwr" it sounds funny to me & everything , u know "car" but most stuff I pronounce would have yall rolling with laughter :)

Lighthouse 101 wrote:

<quoted text>
Are the dealerships even mentioned in the police report?

I don't believe any dealers were mentioned by name, at least not that I've seen. Interestingly the only dealer that was mentioned was one in Northampton that Maura's "boyfriend had good luck with in the past" or something to that effect. I find that highly interesting because it seems pretty obvious that he wasn't talking about billy. Billy was from Ohio and then stationed in OK, its pretty unlikely that he would've bought a car in noho, it's not like cars are so cheap in noho that people travel from out of state to buy cars there, actually noho is not a very good place to buy a car compared to the rest of the northeast.
So what's up with that? Did Fred let it slip that maura had a new BF? Possibly. That's what I believed for a while but now I'm starting to think that he was just talking out his ass. there's a very good possible Fred was not talking about a new BF, he was just making up a story and adding that little tidbit to make it sound believeable. Say the car was a cover story then that would mean that whole business about her BF having good luck would be made up as well.

to the public he said that they chose a car & he would be back the following week but to the umass cops he said that he brought $4,000 with him and they didn't find a car. Now that's interesting. LE would've been able to obtain his bank records and see that he withdrew the 4 g's, and he probably thought that the public would never get to see his written statement to umass cops. Was the whole story about looking for cars all just a cover story for the 4 g's he took out of the bank? Is the whole story about buying a car all bullshit? Seems like it considering the fact that not one of her friends remember her saying anything about a new car. If she'd truly been catching rides around campus and to clinicals from her fiends I would think that I would be big news for herro tell her friends that she was gettin a new car and she didnt have to bum rides anymore, maybe even she could do the driving now. It's always big
News in college whenever somebody gets a new car. I remember distinctly several times when girls I knew got a new car. I just find it hard to believe this 21 yr old girl was getting a new car & she didn't tell one of her friends, not her friend who she was at dinner with, not her friend sara who had the party in her dorm room, not anyone at the party, no one. That is weird and unbelievable.

Oh & lighthouse- the parties I was talkIng about were both hosted by girl friends of Maura so your thought that she was invited because she was a stupid drunk promiscuous girl is obviously wrong and pretty fucking gross that anyone would say something like that, imply that the reason she would be invited to a party is because she was a drunk promiscuous girl.
That just shows how truly low you people are willing to go. That's just a disgusting thing to say, totally awful. Just once again is a shining example of what kind of people you guys are. Nobody critisized you for that, you people are whacked out and a bunch of weirdos

BobJenkins-OG wrote:

Oh & lighthouse- the parties I was talkIng about were both hosted by girl friends of Maura so your thought that she was invited because she was a stupid drunk promiscuous girl is obviously wrong and pretty fucking gross that anyone would say something like that, imply that the reason she would be invited to a party is because she was a drunk promiscuous girl.
That just shows how truly low you people are willing to go. That's just a disgusting thing to say, totally awful. Just once again is a shining example of what kind of people you guys are. Nobody critisized you for that, you people are whacked out and a bunch of weirdos

No, Bob. That is not what Lighthouse said. If you are talking about her post # 27677, she did NOT CALL MM a stupid drunk promiscuous girl -- what she said was that a description like that (of any girl) might interest GUYS throwing a party. Go back and actually read the post, you idiot.

Geez.