Maura Murray

My delivery may have been off target but my position remains the same. I believe the so called ping and the checking messages are two different occurances.

Orko, You say that you have Mauras phone records. Can you tell us how long the 4:37 call was? I assume there is a 4:37 call showing.

JWB wrote:

My delivery may have been off target but my position remains the same. I believe the so called ping and the checking messages are two different occurances.
Orko, You say that you have Mauras phone records. Can you tell us how long the 4:37 call was? I assume there is a 4:37 call showing.

No worries JWB, apology accepted.

But on the phone call records, I only have one day of maura's and its not the day she went missing. that is why when one poster swears there was an 8:10 p.m. call that night she went missing, I have no way of proving or disproving that myself. So we were just running out names on who could've called Maura (Assuming the poster was correct about the phone call).

Jenky and everyone else.

One of the most revealing interviews (IMO) done on this case was when James Renner interviewd Lt. Scarinza, the Troop Commander (now Retired) of Troop F.

Being that he is retired, he can speak a lot more loosely these days about the case than he could when he was the main guy involved representing state police.

He says a lot in the interview that was done in the last few years:

Note that the intial scenario they had (even by the next morning) was a car accident and no murder mystery

Lt. Scarinza -- "I got the call at 6 a.m. on Wednesday morning from the chief of police in Haverhill," recalls Scarinza. "They had a CAR ACCIDENT. But they didn't find a driver."

Note that Fred contacted them and gave out a scenario, not the other way around.(which is telling that police hadn't even worked up a theory days after the accident)

Lt. Scarinza ---
“What I was told was that the first thing out of Fred's mouth was,'She's gone to the North Country to commit suicide, to go off and die like an old squaw."

This is supported by the 911 logs for Feb 10 as Fred was urgently trying to get a hold of police because he had something important to tell them regarding maura

Finally, here is how Lt. Scarinza sums up the case and where it stands. Does this sound like someone that has a murder suspect in mind or thinks that maura was met by foul play?

Lt. Scarinza ----

"I've said this all along: My sense is that Maura's original intent when she left Massachusetts was to come to the North Country to get away from something that was occurring in her life down there. I take into consideration the family's thought that she was coming up to kill herself. But what was the initial catalyst to make her want to do that? And what happened when she got here? My sense is that she is not still alive."

"My sense is that she might have gotten a ride. But we don't know her ultimate destination. It's interesting that her backpack was missing from her car. That some liquor was missing. Until we know for sure what happened, we're going to treat this case as if she was a victim of a crime."

If Maura were a true victim of crime, I doubt he states things in this manner.

Just Read the afidafit again and no where is the word "ping" used.Renner uses the word "PING" and posters have used the word "ping" in the past. Here is a partial of the afidafit again. I also noticed that Sprint tower is mentioned specifically. The tower in Londonderry VT is a US Cellular tower.

" During the course of this investigation, Cellular Telephone records have been obtained by Law Enforcement that were used by MURRAY. A representative from Sprint Corporate Security advised this affiant that during the late afternoon hours of February 9, 2004an outgoing telephone call was made to Murray from the Londonderry, NH Sprint tower. This call had to have been made from within a 22 mile radius of the tower. The identity of this caller and telephone number has not been made as of this date.

Orko Kringer wrote:

Jenky and everyone else.
One of the most revealing interviews (IMO) done on this case was when James Renner interviewd Lt. Scarinza, the Troop Commander (now Retired) of Troop F.
Being that he is retired, he can speak a lot more loosely these days about the case than he could when he was the main guy involved representing state police.
He says a lot in the interview that was done in the last few years:
Note that the intial scenario they had (even by the next morning) was a car accident and no murder mystery
Lt. Scarinza -- "I got the call at 6 a.m. on Wednesday morning from the chief of police in Haverhill," recalls Scarinza. "They had a CAR ACCIDENT. But they didn't find a driver."
Note that Fred contacted them and gave out a scenario, not the other way around.(which is telling that police hadn't even worked up a theory days after the accident)
Lt. Scarinza ---
“What I was told was that the first thing out of Fred's mouth was,'She's gone to the North Country to commit suicide, to go off and die like an old squaw."
This is supported by the 911 logs for Feb 10 as Fred was urgently trying to get a hold of police because he had something important to tell them regarding maura
Finally, here is how Lt. Scarinza sums up the case and where it stands. Does this sound like someone that has a murder suspect in mind or thinks that maura was met by foul play?
Lt. Scarinza ----
"I've said this all along: My sense is that Maura's original intent when she left Massachusetts was to come to the North Country to get away from something that was occurring in her life down there. I take into consideration the family's thought that she was coming up to kill herself. But what was the initial catalyst to make her want to do that? And what happened when she got here? My sense is that she is not still alive."
"My sense is that she might have gotten a ride. But we don't know her ultimate destination. It's interesting that her backpack was missing from her car. That some liquor was missing. Until we know for sure what happened, we're going to treat this case as if she was a victim of a crime."
If Maura were a true victim of crime, I doubt he states things in this manner.

He feels she got a ride and is no longer with us. That says to me that someone else possibly had an opportunity. She didn't just walk into the woods.

I have never heard of someone hitching a ride to a final destination suicide spot. Not that it couldn't happen but it seems less likely to me anyway.

Orko Kringer wrote:

<quoted text>
Although my opinion,
outside of message boards and the desires of family, this case has never been looked at or treated like foul play has occurred other than following up on wacky tips

Where did you get this from or is this just an assumption?
Because it is absolutely 100% wrong, totally just not correct in any way.

they put 6,000 hours into this case. That is a murder investigation straight up and down, that's not a missin person who they think ran off investigation, that's DEFINITELEY not a suicide investigation, that's a murder investigation.
These are murder police investigating here, these guys are serious cops who have a lot of important other things to do, they don't have 6,000 hours to waste on investigating a suicide. There's no way in hell these guys are gonna put anywhere near that amount of time into something they don't believe is going to result in a murder conviction at some point.
6,000 hours!! Biggest case in Nh history, that says something right there. I don't see how anyone can look at that and think they've been investigating anything other than a murder.
Another point is that they've put this tremendous amount of time in here but yet we know they didn't follow up on many basic leads or even many 'wacky leads', which I'm not even really sure of what you're talking about there.
They didn't even investigate her final Phone call, that's gotta tell you something right there.
That's a direct indication that they have a suspect and they are tryin to build a murder prosecution against said suspect.
It's obvious that LE believes she was murdered. Not only that but it's pretty clear that they also have a damn good idea of what happened to her and who is responsible but they lack the evidence to make it stick. Until they can get the proper search warrants, which they've tried to do, they won't be able to do anything.
One thing is absolutely certain though, murder police do NOT put 6,000 hours into a case they believe is going nowhere. They ain't investigating a suicide for 6,000 hours, no way in hell. That's the kind of time that goes into murder prosecutions.
Also they've done all this work behind the scenes. Out of the public eye, they didn't follow up basic leads and they still put in that tremendous amount of time.
It is clear they are investigating a murder, they have a suspect and they are waitin for the guy to mess up somehow to give them probable cause.
I don't see how anybody can look at the work they've done here and say they're not investigating a murder case here.
Orky, with all due respect, I think your thinkin is way too biased. You're clearly an intelligent individual and I enjoy debating with you. I like how you can stick to debating on the facts without resorting to personal attacks like some of the weirdos on this forum. But I think you're way off base here, You have convinced yourself that she killed herself and you're trying to prove that theory. In doing this it looks like you're really misinterpreting a lot of things, skewing what they really mean to think it means suicide, and you're ignoring a lot of crucial things that indicate otherwise.
Besides,. She's on the ccu list. That means the NHSP believes foul play is involved, there's no really debating that fact as far as I can see. If they thought she was a suicide there's NO WAY she'd be on that list, the NHSP would just look like total idiots if she came up a suicide and they said they thought foul play occurred.
I would bet anybody on here $1,000, if everyone wasn't a bunch of superheroes protecting their secret identities that is, that if this case is resolved it is going to end with murder charges and someone going upstate to prison for life.

Interesting piece on Keys. He mentions that he bought a scanner to know where the cops were at.

"It could have got ugly, but fortunately for the cop guy..." Keyes said before chuckling, "his backup showed up. I mean, APD is really good. They're really good, like all by the book and stuff. That's about the time I decided to get a scanner because I almost got myself into a lot of trouble on that one."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/alaska-serial-killer...

Jenkins wrote:

<quoted text>
Where did you get this from or is this just an assumption?
Because it is absolutely 100% wrong, totally just not correct in any way.

So Jenky,
What do you make of this sentence. And keep it mind it was made within the last couple of years from a cop that was heavily involved in the investigation of this case.

"Until we know for sure what happened, we're going to treat this case as if she was a victim of a crime."

That is very odd for a cop to go on record and say that in this manner.

If they had a suspect in mind, they wouldn't keep bringing up the father's suicide theory and basically go on to say well we don't have nothing pointing to a crime, but we will go ahead and leave the door open in case she was a victim.

That doesn't sound like a trained investigator who is confident that they are closing in on a killer to me at all.

Orky- to me that interview with scarinza doesn't say suicide. To me that looks like a bummed out retired cop who wasn't able to solve the biggest case of his career. And yes he's retired, but he certainly didn't speak any more openly about the case then he ever did before.
He can't and would never say anything indicating he believes she got murdered, because, besides being against the rules, with that admission then he's also admitting that there's a killer on the loose that he was unable to catch. Nobody wants to be that cop that can't solve the big crime. What do you think he's gonna come out and say oh we know she was murdered, we know who did it, but the guy is smarter than me and I can't catch him?? Hell no. The NHSP, retired or active, will NEVER openly admit they believe she was murdered until they have a suspect in cuffs, not gonna happen.

Remember the age old saying 'actions speak louder than words'; this applies to this case very well. Look at the NHSP's actions, not what they've said to the public. Their action is a muder investigation, not a suicide investigation. This would have to be the largest suicide investigation ever in history, by far. Do you realize how stupid they'll look If she's found lost in the woods the victim of a suicide? Shouldn't the public be ripping pissed that they've wasted such an extreme amount of time on a suicide? shouldn't the public be pissed that their LE can't even tell if a girl killed herself or got murdered and investigate it as such?
Also they've put all this time in but they haven't been looking in the woods, not near the crash site, not at her favorite hiking spots, nothing like that that indicates they are tryin to find her remains after suicide. Instead they're conducting a classic murder investigation, they're on the street talkin to people, doing criminal records checks, applying for search warrants, doing forensics on the cw's trailer after if was moved; all the things you do when you believe she was murdered, not committed suicide.'

To me in that interview scarinza looks perplexed by the whole thing, he looks defeated to me, like he feels that whoever did this won and he lost. He couldn't find a killer in his own back yard.
Now what better way to make himself look better than to imply that she might've been up here to kill herself? The HPD was doing that since day one. No cop wants to be the guy that can't solve the big case, no cop wants to even admit there's a violent crime unless they absolutely have to.

Actions speak louder than words, and their actions have been a true, major murder investigation, not a suicide investigation.

Orky- to me that quote sounds like a guy who wants to imply there's a good chance something else happened to her other than murder, even though their actions clearly scream murder investigation.

Do you treacly think this guy wants his legacy to be the cop who couldn't catch a killer in his own back hard when his own people were on scene within minutes of her dissapearance? Hell no

What do you think he's gonna say he thinks she got killed but has no clue how to catch the guy or make a conviction stick? Hell no

Remember, if he says he thinks she was murdered than he's also admitting that there's a killer in his own back yard that he wasn't able to catch, not a very fun thing for a cop to admit.

the nightly then daily rehash rewind revisit review rinse and repeat.

hannah_b wrote:

<quoted text>
You think this could be the "one party intercept"?

Yes I think it is.

I also think that whatever the outcome was of the intercept they either didn't get any information from it, or the information from it led LE to believe she was still somewhere near the crash. That is probably why LE decided to search the woods after the RF sighting. You have to assume LE did try and run a search using her phone. I also don't think MM was told by anyone who and if she got into the car with that she had to turn her phone off. Unless the "killer" drove her around in circles where her cellphone couldn't get any contact with a tower. I think it shows there is no proof she or her cellphone made it far from the crash sight.

Jenkins wrote:

<quoted text>
They didn't even investigate her final Phone call, that's gotta tell you something right there.

In this post Jenkins to "prove" his point he mentions that LE didn't investigate her final call.

But in post 28459 Jenkins needs the last call investigated to "prove" his londenberry ping theory. He writes:

"They knew her last call to check her vmail from day one. The Londonberry Ping document has nothing to do with her last call, it is regarding the identity of someone who attempted to call her. "

You can never win an argument who keeps changing the "facts" of the conversation.

Lighthouse 101 wrote:

<quoted text>
In this post Jenkins to "prove" his point he mentions that LE didn't investigate her final call.
But in post 28459 Jenkins needs the last call investigated to "prove" his londenberry ping theory. He writes:
"They knew her last call to check her vmail from day one. The Londonberry Ping document has nothing to do with her last call, it is regarding the identity of someone who attempted to call her. "
You can never win an argument who keeps changing the "facts" of the conversation.

Damn, you really don't understand that? How is that possible? Oh yea, you just make up problems to try to confuse the situation and make it look like what I said doesn't make sense when in reality it makes perfect sense to anyone with half a brain.

When I said they didn't investigate her final phone call I am obviously talking about the 3 minute call to the salamones, which they didn't investigate for at least 8 months and I don't think they ever actually did; but I'm not sure about that. I sometimes forget that I'm dealing with some people that like to pretend they have the brain capacity of a 5 year old and need every little thing spelled out for them.

Her last actual phone call was made to the salamones, it lasted 3 minutes and LE didn't investigate it. That's a direct indication that they didn't feel the need to waste their time because they knew it had nothing to do with her dissapearance. They put in 6,000 hours and didn't investigate simple things like her last real phone call. Someone's final phone calls are day one stuff of an investigation, that is if you have no clue as to what happened to this person. Would you not agree with that? Point being if they had no clue what happened, why would they not call and talk to the salamones for 8 months? But yet we know in that time they put in thousands of hours, so what were they doing all this time if they weren't following basic leads like final phone calls?

Now the actual last time she used her phone was at 4:37 to check her vmail. I wouldn't exactly consider that a final phone call. Also there is no investigating a call to check her vmail, it's right there in her phone records. It's not like they're gonna go out and interview the computer that holds her vmails. I suppose I should've worded that differently but I forgot people like you enjoy pretending that you're brain don't work so good. Lol. Maybe instead I should've said the last time she used her phone was known, as it wasn't really a phone call, but It seems like everyone else knew exactly what I was talkin about, I wonder why you couldn't figure it out?

Two completely different things, your point makes absolutely no sense at all. Now if you were actually twelve years old or weren't very smart at all, I could understand the confusion. But you're more intelligent than that lighthouse, well at least I thought you were; I'm beginning to have my doubts here buddy.

Lighthouse, you might need to go to a doctor ASAP, you clearly are developing a rather serious case of billanoma, I'd say you're at stage 3 and quickly approaching stage 4. Billanoma is very serious mental disorder, symptoms including drawing conclusions based on faulty assumptions that are based on faulty assumptions, believing you're actually the smartest person on earth and forgetting basic things, like how many houses you own for example. People with billanoma can't help not making personal attacks when they know they're wrong, and make up critisisms even then they know their critisism is wrong. You have almost all of these symptoms, once you start forgetting how many houses you claim to own you're gonna be at stage four so you should really be careful lighthouse. You might need a blast of radiation directly to your frontal lobe to cure this disorder you've developed in the last few months. My thoughts and prayers are with you through your recovery process. Lol

Lighthouse 101 wrote:

<quoted text>
Yes I think it is.
I also think that whatever the outcome was of the intercept they either didn't get any information from it, or the information from it led LE to believe she was still somewhere near the crash. That is probably why LE decided to search the woods after the RF sighting. You have to assume LE did try and run a search using her phone. I also don't think MM was told by anyone who and if she got into the car with that she had to turn her phone off. Unless the "killer" drove her around in circles where her cellphone couldn't get any contact with a tower. I think it shows there is no proof she or her cellphone made it far from the crash sight.

They (LE) mentioned having proof of her at a location away from the accident scene. Maybe this (the one party intercept) is how they got that proof?

If I was a serial killer, picking people up off the road and abducting them, first thing I would do is to make sure they didn´t have their cell phone turned on. I would detach the battery from the phone and throw them out the window. I´m not sure how long Maura´s phone would stay charged. Did she have her charger with her? The travel charger is mentioned as being found in the Saturn, but the regular one? In areas with poor or no reception phones stay charged a lot shorter. IF they were able to "intercept" the party (Maura), her phone must have been turned on and have had reception. It seems she made it out of the area to somewhere with better reception.

Orko Kringer wrote:

<quoted text>
So Jenky,
What do you make of this sentence. And keep it mind it was made within the last couple of years from a cop that was heavily involved in the investigation of this case.
"Until we know for sure what happened, we're going to treat this case as if she was a victim of a crime."
That is very odd for a cop to go on record and say that in this manner.
If they had a suspect in mind, they wouldn't keep bringing up the father's suicide theory and basically go on to say well we don't have nothing pointing to a crime, but we will go ahead and leave the door open in case she was a victim.
That doesn't sound like a trained investigator who is confident that they are closing in on a killer to me at all.

Agree.

Jenkins wrote:

<quoted text>
Damn, you really don't understand that? How is that possible? Oh yea, you just make up problems to try to confuse the situation and make it look like what I said doesn't make sense when in reality it makes perfect sense to anyone with half a brain.
When I said they didn't investigate her final phone call I am obviously talking about the 3 minute call to the salamones, which they didn't investigate for at least 8 months and I don't think they ever actually did; but I'm not sure about that. I sometimes forget that I'm dealing with some people that like to pretend they have the brain capacity of a 5 year old and need every little thing spelled out for them.
Her last actual phone call was made to the salamones, it lasted 3 minutes and LE didn't investigate it. That's a direct indication that they didn't feel the need to waste their time because they knew it had nothing to do with her dissapearance. They put in 6,000 hours and didn't investigate simple things like her last real phone call. Someone's final phone calls are day one stuff of an investigation, that is if you have no clue as to what happened to this person. Would you not agree with that? Point being if they had no clue what happened, why would they not call and talk to the salamones for 8 months? But yet we know in that time they put in thousands of hours, so what were they doing all this time if they weren't following basic leads like final phone calls?
Now the actual last time she used her phone was at 4:37 to check her vmail. I wouldn't exactly consider that a final phone call. Also there is no investigating a call to check her vmail, it's right there in her phone records. It's not like they're gonna go out and interview the computer that holds her vmails. I suppose I should've worded that differently but I forgot people like you enjoy pretending that you're brain don't work so good. Lol. Maybe instead I should've said the last time she used her phone was known, as it wasn't really a phone call, but It seems like everyone else knew exactly what I was talkin about, I wonder why you couldn't figure it out?
Two completely different things, your point makes absolutely no sense at all. Now if you were actually twelve years old or weren't very smart at all, I could understand the confusion. But you're more intelligent than that lighthouse, well at least I thought you were; I'm beginning to have my doubts here buddy.
Lighthouse, you might need to go to a doctor ASAP, you clearly are developing a rather serious case of billanoma, I'd say you're at stage 3 and quickly approaching stage 4. Billanoma is very serious mental disorder, symptoms including drawing conclusions based on faulty assumptions that are based on faulty assumptions, believing you're actually the smartest person on earth and forgetting basic things, like how many houses you own for example. People with billanoma can't help not making personal attacks when they know they're wrong, and make up critisisms even then they know their critisism is wrong. You have almost all of these symptoms, once you start forgetting how many houses you claim to own you're gonna be at stage four so you should really be careful lighthouse. You might need a blast of radiation directly to your frontal lobe to cure this disorder you've developed in the last few months. My thoughts and prayers are with you through your recovery process. Lol

Jenkins - we should move this forum from Franconia to Jenkonia, Because you are "cleary" in your own little world if you really think about it.

Lighthouse 101 wrote:

<quoted text>
In this post Jenkins to "prove" his point he mentions that LE didn't investigate her final call.
But in post 28459 Jenkins needs the last call investigated to "prove" his londenberry ping theory. He writes:
"They knew her last call to check her vmail from day one. The Londonberry Ping document has nothing to do with her last call, it is regarding the identity of someone who attempted to call her. "
You can never win an argument who keeps changing the "facts" of the conversation.

Londonberry, would that be the capital of Jenkonia?

hannah_b wrote:

<quoted text>
Londonberry, would that be the capital of Jenkonia?

And their flagship would be the H.M.S Jenkinanic. "Clearly we don't need that many life boats if you think about it - the passengers can just swim. "

I know I have been blabbing on and on about the londonderry ping ordeal, but I really want to drive this point home.

As long as Maribeth was correct (And I am still waiting to hear from her) and maura did check her phone messages at 4:37 p.m., that monday, then regardless if maura had her phone on or off before then, she would've left a trace - vie cell phone pings - to her location over an hour after she left campus.

We would've heard about this location through the media.

Police weren't telling the public everything about the case but as you can notice, they were releasing anything and everything about maura when it came to possible locations and destinations she may have gone because they wanted the public to assist them in finding her (regardless of the theory that is true concerning her disappearance).

The fact that no public news article or press release has ever come out and said "we know for a fact Maura was at such and such at 4:37 p.m.,(by tracing her cell phone) only points to the fact that they concluded she was driving on the interstate at that time and had turned on her phone to check for messages. Her phone was voice activated, so she could've easily done all of that while driving.

Bottom line, if she did check her messages, her phone had to be on at 4:37 p.m. and her location (within a certain mileage) would've been known.

The fact police didn't harp on that location to the public in helping find maura, only points more to the fact that they determined she was checking her messages at that time and was in her car driving and I believe that is what they told maribeth and that is what she reported.