Maura Murray

Orko Kringer wrote:

<quoted text>
just to keep things in perspective.
Maura is the child of the child of the cousin of Citigirl as what has been reported in the newspaper.
So that is what I mean by saying citigirl is not exactly immediate family.
I know I don't know a single cousin's child's child that I have.

a distant relative.

citigirl wrote:

<quoted text>I have never claimed to be an immediate family member to Maura. I have said in the past Iam a distant relative to Maura. But it really doesnt matter where Iam in the family tree. What does matter is I have done my best to help find Maura as well as many others that never knew her and are not related.

Thats pretty far from the family tree. I'm not saying that you lied to anyone, but when MCSMOM says "your family" I don't think many of us were thinking this far removed.

orky wants to know if londenberry is in nh, vt or both.

Lighthouse 101 wrote:

<quoted text>
Thats pretty far from the family tree. I'm not saying that you lied to anyone, but when MCSMOM says "your family" I don't think many of us were thinking this far removed.

If I'd said citigirl was not family would that be a more accurate statement?

She is close enough on the family tree to have been looking in them with Fred.

mcsmom wrote:

<quoted text>
If I'd said citigirl was not family would that be a more accurate statement?
She is close enough on the family tree to have been looking in them with Fred.

To me its the context of the posts. Is she family? Technically, but very very distant where probably it wouldn't matter. When making comments based on testimony of eye witness and using "family" as a status to add weight to one's post without proof I would think she would need to be closer to the family. Many times citigirl has made posts ie: blood on carpet, and Aframe references without showing any proof. Her word was accepted because she was "family". Now looking at her family status and how distance it is, and knowing how close lipped Fred was and is, are we to believe he was or has shared anything with her? Citigirl's relationship being considered as "family" would open the door to possible 200 other people that by using her defintion as "family" . Would Fred share that information with them?

Again the point you make of "family" right or wrong is based on context. If I'm having a heart attack in the mall and someone calls out for a doctor. If I doctor steps forward to help and says he is a doctor I shouldn't have to verify if he is a PHD or MD. Either PHD or MD would be a doctor and they wouldn't be right or wrong, but certain situations should be able to speak for themselves.

WHat difference does any of it make? Everyone posting here is doing so anonymously, no matter who they CLAIM to be or not to be.

Take the information for what it worth, judge it based on the weight of the information itself, not the alleged source of the information.

Minutia

FrmLE wrote:

WHat difference does any of it make? Everyone posting here is doing so anonymously, no matter who they CLAIM to be or not to be.
Take the information for what it worth, judge it based on the weight of the information itself, not the alleged source of the information.
Minutia

Lighthouse is correct; even in the context of an anonymously attended forum, citi has made a claim to more credibility and authority by her status as "family", a term which is usually reserved for more immediate than very distant family. we, therefore, question her credibility and authority to speak on behalf of MM's family, whereby her info is presented as definitive. you're correct in the sense that we can take it, leave it, or debate it.

Snowy wrote:

<quoted text>
Lighthouse is correct; even in the context of an anonymously attended forum, citi has made a claim to more credibility and authority by her status as "family", a term which is usually reserved for more immediate than very distant family. we, therefore, question her credibility and authority to speak on behalf of MM's family, whereby her info is presented as definitive. you're correct in the sense that we can take it, leave it, or debate it.

Oh, it will certainly be debated. If we can stretch 2 pages out on how much of a family you have to be to call it family, think what we could do with a real issue! lol

trollsRus wrote:

orky wants to know if londenberry is in nh, vt or both.

It's actually londonderry and it is in both states.

I did have to admit to being wrong for calling it a "Fact" that the londonderry ping was in relation to determining where maura was (when she checked her voicemail late in the afternoon for when she went missing).

But, that doesn't mean I was wrong. I just can't 100 percent verify it.

The good news is that we all know who we are.
And every one knows who they aren't....so that's a start.

Orko, going by what ur definition of what Citigirl's relation is to MM, I can guarantee you that if MY cousin's granddaughter went missing, there would be involvement in helping and I'd be privy to information.

What is wrong with some of you? I know you surely can't be that callous. Or maybe your family isn't as close as some are but who are you to put your definition on family? Ay yi yi it makes me crazy (ier)!

Lady Gray1 wrote:

Orko, going by what ur definition of what Citigirl's relation is to MM, I can guarantee you that if MY cousin's granddaughter went missing, there would be involvement in helping and I'd be privy to information.
What is wrong with some of you? I know you surely can't be that callous. Or maybe your family isn't as close as some are but who are you to put your definition on family? Ay yi yi it makes me crazy (ier)!

I am a family man actually. Love family.

But in this specific instance. I feel like I had to set the record some what straight.

There seems to be a handful of "Family spokespeople" that claim to have all the inside knowledge into maura and this case. And they (intentionally or unintentionally) over the years, have provided a very glossy-coated version of events into maura's life and disappearance that has absolutely done nothing but hurt any sort of progress being made in this case.

Lighthouse 101 wrote:

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You make a bold assumption that she is using a keyboard or mouse.:)

Funny.:) Although I realized by my saying "keyboard" and "mouse" that it's almost like saying "typewriter" or "rotary phone." Am I the only one left in the world that uses a PC, mouse, mousepad, keyboard and monitor?:)

Maybe this has been discussed prior, IDK, but we know SBD mother was deaf, maybe SBD suffered from the same and there was a mix up in communication and Maura thought he was calling AAA. If the tow truck operator from the Corolla accident put a rag as a flag in the Corolla tailpipe, maybe Maura did the same in the Saturn in anticipation of the Saturn being towed.

The toyota corolla accident is definitely one of mystery.

I don't see the tow truck driver having to flag the corolla, only because it went straight to a huge hotel parking lot and then off to an auto repair shop the next day.

I went back and looked at the corolla accident report.

It's interesting that it was noted that maura's wreck was due to driver inattention, yet no mention of sliding on ice or anything like that.

In fact, according to the police report and police report codes, Maura drove head on into the guard rail. She wasn't in the process of making a turn or attempting to make a turn at all.

as far as the rag found in maura's saturn's tailpipe in NH, the head person in charge of the investigation is the one who threw out a possible abrupt spur of the moment suicide attempt gone wrong.

Orko Kringer wrote:

It's interesting that it was noted that maura's wreck was due to driver inattention, yet no mention of sliding on ice or anything like that.
In fact, according to the police report and police report codes, Maura drove head on into the guard rail. She wasn't in the process of making a turn or attempting to make a turn at all.

Almost makes one wonder if it was a suicide attempt?? Cry for help??? Maybe?

Just thinking out loud.

Bill

Orko Kringer wrote:

<quoted text>
I am a family man actually. Love family.
But in this specific instance. I feel like I had to set the record some what straight.
There seems to be a handful of "Family spokespeople" that claim to have all the inside knowledge into maura and this case. And they (intentionally or unintentionally) over the years, have provided a very glossy-coated version of events into maura's life and disappearance that has absolutely done nothing but hurt any sort of progress being made in this case.

agree. that sentiment / observation has been expressed with variations over the years.

mcsmom wrote:

Maybe this has been discussed prior, IDK, but we know SBD mother was deaf, maybe SBD suffered from the same and there was a mix up in communication and Maura thought he was calling AAA. If the tow truck operator from the Corolla accident put a rag as a flag in the Corolla tailpipe, maybe Maura did the same in the Saturn in anticipation of the Saturn being towed.

re SBD - possible, but reaching.
further, a school bus driver requires adequate hearing.
you mean his MOTHER was investigated by the online skeuths, as well? gasp.

re rag - stuffing a "rag" in a tailpipe is not a common distress signal, according to all of my ancient wisdom.
tie one onto a sideview mirror, or attach via a window or door.
a red flag / fabric alerts drivers to lumber that extends past a truck bed.

perhaps the rag may be used to beat the dead horse that blocked the road.

WTH-the-original wrote:

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Not that he needs any endorsement by me. But since I was asked specifically and have too much on my plate to read every response. I can tell you that looks exactly like the way police handle the cars I have seen here in CT.
More to the point, I use to handle the disposition of the patients, not the cars. The only time I was concerned with the cars was when my patients were trapped inside.
And yes, usually the only times I saw someone run from a car, correction, the only time I saw someone who ran from a car was when they were drunk or high. Only one exception to that, and that person within minutes reported that they had gone to a specific house so they were not evading anyone.
You have two first responders on this forum, that I am aware of. I have told you my experience has been virtually 100%. I am certain that FrmLE has had far more contacts like that than I. I would ask him what his experience is. Maybe it's not 100%, but I'll bet it's over 95%. But I don't want to put words in his mouth.
The old expression, if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, walks like a duck.....it's a freaking duck. I know that citigirl disagrees but there are many things that can be inferred from patterns that we learn from with experience.
Bill

I agree with you about someone running from their car most likely being drunk, or committed some other crime(has a warrant or maybe drugs on them etc), in those cases what you're saying is true for the most part.

The problem with what you're saying here is that Maura did NOT 'run' from her car, quite the contrary actually.
She was at her car for a MINIMUM of 15 minutes, probably more like 17 minutes, that's not running from your car by any normal person's definition. Not even close.
People who are drunk and trying to evaid LE run from their cars, meaning they crash & get the hell out of there, which isn't what she did at all.

It took smith 19 minutes to arrive on scene after the first 911 call. FW made that call probably 2 mins after she first heard the crash, I'm sure she gave it a minute to see If the person was going to be able to drive away. Let's say she called 1 minute after, for arguments sake.
Well that's 20 mins between Crash and LE's arrival.
Maura was last seen at the car just 2-3 minutes before LE arrived. That means she stayed at her car for AT LEAST 15 minutes, probably more like 17 min.
I don't care what anybody on here says, that is NOT the actions of someone who is particularly scared of LE, that's actually the exact opposite of what you would expect from someone who is so scared of the cops that they're willing to walk miles into the woods through 2.5' of snow to avoid them.

She crashed, then she went around the car checking out the damage, then sat there for a few minutes with her door open trying to find a signal on her cell, or smoking a cigarette. She then got her belongings together, going back and forth to the trunk a couple times. This is all according to the witness statements.
So she was there for almost 20 minutes, for her maybe it felt like a lot longer considering she just crashed and all & probably wasn't paying close attention to the time.
For all we know she WAS waiting for LE to show up and after almost 20 minutes figured they weren't coming and hitched a ride.

Either way, someone who is running from a scene doesn't sit around for 15-20 min, they run from the scene.
Her actions do NOT support the ASSUNPTION that she was drunk & actively evading the cops in any way shape or form. It's clearly not an accurate assumption if you actually take the time to read and analyze the witness statements.

Orko Kringer wrote:

The toyota corolla accident is definitely one of mystery.
I don't see the tow truck driver having to flag the corolla, only because it went straight to a huge hotel parking lot and then off to an auto repair shop the next day.
I went back and looked at the corolla accident report.
It's interesting that it was noted that maura's wreck was due to driver inattention, yet no mention of sliding on ice or anything like that.
In fact, according to the police report and police report codes, Maura drove head on into the guard rail. She wasn't in the process of making a turn or attempting to make a turn at all.
as far as the rag found in maura's saturn's tailpipe in NH, the head person in charge of the investigation is the one who threw out a possible abrupt spur of the moment suicide attempt gone wrong.

Also worth mentioning that her father mentioned in the police report that he told her "she was lucky she didn't get a DUI" did he know she was drinking or that she had a problem with drinking and driving?