Maura Murray

FrmLE- For someone who CLAIMS to have soooooo much LE experience and all that BS it's pretty ridiculous for you to suggest that a small town like Haverhill handles homdicide investigations.

Here is a quote I pulled directly from the nh.gov website regarding who has jurisdiction over murders and other major crimes, like kidnapping, in the state of NH:

"The New Hampshire Attorney General is the chief law enforcement officer for the state with exclusive jurisdiction over homicide cases. Most of the state's homicides are investigated by the New Hampshire State Police Major Crime Unit. However larger cities, such Concord, Dover, Keene, Manchester, Nashua, and Portsmouth, investigate homicides occurring within their jurisdictions."

There it is dude, straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak- the NH AG has 'exclusive jurisdiction over homicide cases" Most of the states homicides are investigated by the NHSP Major Crime Unit except for the ones that take place in the cities, like manchester, that have the resources to have their own homicide unit.

Are you really trying to suggest that if it was known Maura was definitely murdered that the HPD would've iinvestigated it????? LOL, you can't be serious can you? Who in that department would even have the ability to do that??? Smith who'd been on the job for a year or two?? Or would it be Cheif williams squeezing it in between his running the HPD and all the drinking and driving he had to do??

Come on- this is common knowledge for ANYONE who has anything to do with LE in states like NH and VT, these small towns simply don't have the resources, manpower, or training to handle Major crimes, this is why the Major Crime Unit and the Nh AG's office have 'exclusive jurisdiction' over murder cases and other major crimes.

WOW dude you REALLY know what you're talking about huh?

This is just another prime example of this random dude on the internet, who CLAIMS to be ex-NHSP stating info as fact that directly contradicts what the REAL cops who actually work these cases have to say. Who are you gonna trust, some anonymous dude on the internet or what the NH.GOV website has to say? IDK about you people but i'm gonna take the official, on the record word, over some random dude on the internet. LOL....he wrote ir on the interwebs so it MUST be true.

citigirl wrote:

<quoted text>I have no reason to lie. But if you were personally involved in the case Or knew what was going on concerning the case you would not be asking me these questions.

OK so then tell us, what exactly was said? What was the nature of the argument about jurisdiction? And who was it between? Smith and Monaghan?

Be specific, since you alledge an 'argument', what was it about?

And perhaps I don't know anything about this case, please educate me on this argument.

Also, can you please explain how it affects the case in any way whatsoever? Let's assume there was an argument about jurisdiction, what effect does it have?

Surely it must be important to you, you made a point to bring it up here.

Jenkins wrote:

FrmLE- For someone who CLAIMS to have soooooo much LE experience and all that BS it's pretty ridiculous for you to suggest that a small town like Haverhill handles homdicide investigations.
Here is a quote I pulled directly from the nh.gov website regarding who has jurisdiction over murders and other major crimes, like kidnapping, in the state of NH:
"The New Hampshire Attorney General is the chief law enforcement officer for the state with exclusive jurisdiction over homicide cases. Most of the state's homicides are investigated by the New Hampshire State Police Major Crime Unit. However larger cities, such Concord, Dover, Keene, Manchester, Nashua, and Portsmouth, investigate homicides occurring within their jurisdictions."
There it is dude, straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak- the NH AG has 'exclusive jurisdiction over homicide cases" Most of the states homicides are investigated by the NHSP Major Crime Unit except for the ones that take place in the cities, like manchester, that have the resources to have their own homicide unit.
Are you really trying to suggest that if it was known Maura was definitely murdered that the HPD would've iinvestigated it????? LOL, you can't be serious can you? Who in that department would even have the ability to do that??? Smith who'd been on the job for a year or two?? Or would it be Cheif williams squeezing it in between his running the HPD and all the drinking and driving he had to do??
Come on- this is common knowledge for ANYONE who has anything to do with LE in states like NH and VT, these small towns simply don't have the resources, manpower, or training to handle Major crimes, this is why the Major Crime Unit and the Nh AG's office have 'exclusive jurisdiction' over murder cases and other major crimes.
WOW dude you REALLY know what you're talking about huh?
This is just another prime example of this random dude on the internet, who CLAIMS to be ex-NHSP stating info as fact that directly contradicts what the REAL cops who actually work these cases have to say. Who are you gonna trust, some anonymous dude on the internet or what the NH.GOV website has to say? IDK about you people but i'm gonna take the official, on the record word, over some random dude on the internet. LOL....he wrote ir on the interwebs so it MUST be true.

Are you really this stupid kid? Seriously?

I think what I said, pretty clearly, is that whatever happened with this case would not be decided in someones back yard between a HPD Sgt. and a Trooper.

If it is a homicide for example, the case is a HPD case, up to the time it is taken by NHSP MC Unit. Haverhill PD would handle the case and call the NH Attorney General and when it is determined to be a Homicide then the NHSP takes the case and HPD assists them with the Investigation.

That is exactly how it happens. How it DOES NOT happen is that late at night in someone's back yard a Sgt. from HPD and a Trooper argue over whose 'jurisdiction' it is.

Isn't that what I said, or are you so stupid you can't grasp the written word?

Can't you read? I mean, at all?

Wowzer the real one wrote:

<quoted text>
I don't want to know their name or location. I have no idea why they would seek you out.
I'm not saying they lied, I'm just saying to picture it and use common sense which I know you have.

I understand what you are saying. I trully believe we were sought out because of what one heard and it was bothersome to that person.Knowing the area as to this location it makes alot of sense to me.I will more than likely get alot of crap for this. But thats okay with me. Iam not throwing out names or locations.

citigirl wrote:

<quoted text>I have no reason to lie. But if you were personally involved in the case Or knew what was going on concerning the case you would not be asking me these questions.

Unnamed testimony can't debunk reason.

Lady Gray1 wrote:

<quoted text>
FrmLE, where'd you go? I look forward to hearing your answer.

FrmLE, yay, you're back! Okay, once a call comes in and it's dispatched with all units (LE, fire and EMS) in route.....who has the authority to have the dispatcher cancel the call and have units turn around? How does that happen? I know it doesn't come from Joe Q Public....who is in a position to cancel?

FrmLE wrote:

<quoted text>
Yes, that is exactly what I am saying, either they are lying or you are lying.
Just curious, who is this PI you gave the info to? Why not the NHSP?

my question, as well, immediately after reading citi's reply.
an unusual protocol, but with the steady and vocal complaints from MM's father from early on, perhaps the sub-investigation of PIs dictated a different hierarchy than reporting directly to authorities and to the official investigation.
after all, the "rusty knife", the "carpet pieces" and the A-Frame search were organized around the sub-group of "investigators", yes?

Snowy wrote:

after all, the "rusty knife", the "carpet pieces" and the A-Frame search were organized around the sub-group of "investigators", yes?

The foul play machine. Citigirl is the oil for the machine on this forum.

FrmLE wrote:

Can't you read? I mean, at all?

No but we all know he can write.

FrmLE wrote:

<quoted text>
Refuse to answer any questions to who? When you make this absurd statement, who do you mean when you say he refused to answer any questions?

What do you mean WHO??? To the missing person's family maybe??
That would be the decent thing to do. The NHSP has spoken a lot about this case, about what Smith did that night, etc. But never what JKM did, why is that? If the ONLY thing he did was drive by when he was off duty and take a few mins to drive around looking for her the why NOT tell the family that? It makes it look sketchy, like he and/or they don't want to lie about what he did. If all he did was drive around and look then that could not possibly interfere with any investigation or prosecution, that's impossible, so why the hell not say what he did?

FrmLE wrote:

So whoever said this nonsense about jurisdiction was either lying or can not hear and made this up.
Your ignorance of how Law Enforcement works is so ridiculous it is only exceeded by your arrogance believing you know how things work with your absolutely ZERO Law Enforcement experience.
I repeat, you have absolutely ZERO experience in anything relating to Law Enforcement. Period.

Maybe the person heard it wrong but clearly there ARE jurisdictional issues when it comes to a murder or abduction case- the NHSP and the NH AG's office have 'exclusive jurisdiction' over all murder cases in NH except the ones in the cities that have their own homcide squads. How could you possibly NOT know this, mr LE experience guy?? LOL

And you don't know me, actually I DO have experience in LE. I work in federal LE, which is a completely different thing, but I do have LE experience. Also to get my degree in criminal justice I had to do almost 4 months field experience at the Vermont State Police academy. I could have EASILY been a Vt state trooper, and almost did, but I didn't want to be a cop who's job for at leas the first few years is basically driving around all day and pulling people over and handing out tickets, thats not fun for me. I did it with a trooper for a couple months and I didn't like it at all.

But seriously people, anyone who's saying that the HPD would handle a murder that happens in Haverhill just does NOT know what they are talking about, that statement is totally untrue and completely ridiculous to even suggest. 3-4 man police dep'ts just don't have the manpower or resources to conducte a proper murder investigation. If someone says that, and states it as a fact like that, then you need to seriously question OTHER things this person is saying and also stating as a fact, because clearly that person is willing to just write what they THINK is a fact and state it in such a way that it SOUNDS like it really is a fact.
FrmLE talks a good game, he really does, but then sometimes he says thigs like this that really make me question whether the guy ever was really a cop or if he just knows how to talk a good game. I find it VERY hard to believe that someone who supposedly worked for the NHSP for over 20 years like he claims to have done wouldn't know that the NHSP has exlusive jurisdiction over murder cases in the sttate of NH, VERY hard to believe.
And there's no debating this fact- it's plainly written on the NH.GOV website for anyone to see. The HPD might assist the NHSP in certain tasks if there's a murder in their town, but they are NOT the primary investigative agency, no way in hell

FrmLE wrote:

<quoted text>
OK so then tell us, what exactly was said? What was the nature of the argument about jurisdiction? And who was it between? Smith and Monaghan?
Be specific, since you alledge an 'argument', what was it about?
And perhaps I don't know anything about this case, please educate me on this argument.
Also, can you please explain how it affects the case in any way whatsoever? Let's assume there was an argument about jurisdiction, what effect does it have?
Surely it must be important to you, you made a point to bring it up here.

I never stated names. If you know everything about this case why are you asking me questions?

Lighthouse 101 wrote:

<quoted text>
The foul play machine. Citigirl is the oil for the machine on this forum.

How many times did you travel to NH? How many people did you talk to concerning this case in NH? Should I not post because you disagree with me?

Lady Gray1 wrote:

<quoted text>
FrmLE, yay, you're back! Okay, once a call comes in and it's dispatched with all units (LE, fire and EMS) in route.....who has the authority to have the dispatcher cancel the call and have units turn around? How does that happen? I know it doesn't come from Joe Q Public....who is in a position to cancel?

Is this a hypothetical?

citigirl wrote:

<quoted text>I never stated names. If you know everything about this case why are you asking me questions?

I know nothing about this case. I didn't ask you to name names, did I? Seems I asked you what the heard. To try to verify what they heard was accurately confirm there was an argument.

Also, what relevance does this have on the case? Why so important?

I have a legitimate question.

Does anyone here think that Jenkins reads anything that is written? Be honest with me, is it just me or is it like trying to communicate with a monkey?

I have never had to interact with anyone who so clearly ignores what is written and just continues on the same path as if no information was received.

Please tell me it's not me.

Snowy wrote:

<quoted text>
my question, as well, immediately after reading citi's reply.
an unusual protocol, but with the steady and vocal complaints from MM's father from early on, perhaps the sub-investigation of PIs dictated a different hierarchy than reporting directly to authorities and to the official investigation.
after all, the "rusty knife", the "carpet pieces" and the A-Frame search were organized around the sub-group of "investigators", yes?

For one PIs had stated from day one when they became involved they would report to LE with anything they were told and learned regarding this case. Maybe Iam misunderstanding what you are saying. Do you believe I should put out names and locations? Im sorry but if one has not put there name out to the media I personally will not put names and locations out there.

FrmLE wrote:

I have a legitimate question.
Does anyone here think that Jenkins reads anything that is written? Be honest with me, is it just me or is it like trying to communicate with a monkey?
I have never had to interact with anyone who so clearly ignores what is written and just continues on the same path as if no information was received.
Please tell me it's not me.

I have stated before. I don't think he reads anything. And if he does read, he doesn't understand, and if he understands, he just wants to be contrary.

I don't know though FrmLE. You mean that fistfights and shootouts don't happen over jurisdictional issues in your state. Happens all the time in CT. It is such an absurd concept that professionals would behave in such a manner. And almost every person I have met in these professions put the public first. The one or two who didn't, didn't last long. They are weeded out very quickly. Like you said, whosoever jurisdiction it is, it belongs to them. We are there to help them. They run it. We assist. If they come to our town, they assist us. EVERYONE KNOWS THAT. There is no squabbling about such things on the scene. EVER. How does anyone think it could work in any other manner?

Bill

FrmLE wrote:

<quoted text>
I know nothing about this case. I didn't ask you to name names, did I? Seems I asked you what the heard. To try to verify what they heard was accurately confirm there was an argument.
Also, what relevance does this have on the case? Why so important?

Posting 35388 FrmLE " Just curious who is the PI you gave the info to?" If you were not involved how could you confirm what was and not accurate? The only ones that could confirm this was LE who responded and the witness that heard this.

citigirl wrote:

How many people did you talk to concerning this case in NH?

Stupid question. I can say I spoke with 40 people but because we are playing by your rules no names have to be given.

Don't stop posting on this forum. What else could you be doing? Helping your other cousin? Nah this is much better time spent.

FrmLE wrote:

<quoted text>
Are you really this stupid kid? Seriously?
I think what I said, pretty clearly, is that whatever happened with this case would not be decided in someones back yard between a HPD Sgt. and a Trooper.
If it is a homicide for example, the case is a HPD case, up to the time it is taken by NHSP MC Unit. Haverhill PD would handle the case and call the NH Attorney General and when it is determined to be a Homicide then the NHSP takes the case and HPD assists them with the Investigation.
That is exactly how it happens. How it DOES NOT happen is that late at night in someone's back yard a Sgt. from HPD and a Trooper argue over whose 'jurisdiction' it is.
Isn't that what I said, or are you so stupid you can't grasp the written word?
Can't you read? I mean, at all?

LOL, wow, are you really this stupid old man? Or are you just getting so old now that you don't remember things quite clearly? And I wonder, just how old is mr FrmLE anyways? LOL

You said: "If it is a homicide for example, the case is a HPD case, up to the time it is taken by NHSP MC Unit" Wow, you could not be more wrong. If it is a homicide case it would not be touched by the HPD because they don't have a CRIME LAB. My god, you really just can't admit when you're wrong about something can you? You may be intelligent but you're seriously lacking in wisdom, it's unbelievable.
If there is a homicide in Haverhill the HPD calls the NHSP who sends up their mobile crime lab to proccess the scene and the case it taken by the MCU, plain and simple. THe HPD does not have the means or ability to process a murder scene and then conduct a proper investigation. A murder case will NEVER be an HPD case, unless you're counting the hour or 2 that the HPD secures the scene while waiting for the MCU to show up, but actually the NHSP would be on the scene of a homicide long before that anyways.

Bottom line is that the HPD, or any small town, 2-4 man police force doesn't have the manpower, resources or training to handle a homicide investigation.

As for the argument in the back yard, that is up for debate and it is possible this person misheard the argument but judging by the fact that the peson sought out the family to give them this info, it probably is valid. I believe they did hear some sort of argument but the exact topic of the argument is up for debate.
But the only thing that I could see there being any sort of argument like that is if one cop, Smith, thought that she was abducted. If there is a belief that she was abducted then clearly that case would need to be handled by the NHSP MCU, not the HPD. Monahan could've argued that there is no real evidence she was abducted, no clear sign of a struggle and at that point it's just a one car accident, which would fall under the HPD's responsibility.
There's not much debate over jurisdiction in NH since it's a mutual aid state, this is the ONLY situation I could see there even being any sort of argument. If the local guy thinks that she was abducted and the statie doesn't; I could also see an argument like that possibly getting pretty heated if the local guy really thinks she got abducted and the investigation needs to be started for real immediately.

Makes me wonder if we would be sitting her talking about this right now if the NHSP MCU took the case that night instead of on wednesday when instead we now have Smith lying to the family saying that he thought is was Fred driving.

Damn FrmLE, you must be getting old, it's not that hard to understand that a dep't like the HPD can't handle and wouldn't touch a murder case. Getting hard to read in your old age or something? Maybe you need some new glasses? lol....Old man FrmLE

LOL, and for the record, no, I can't read, obviously I'm completely illiterate.