Maura Murray

Jenkins wrote:

<quoted text>
Huh? This argument makes no sense, there's many other investigators besides the CCU that handle missing persons cases where foul play is NOT suspected. The CCU specifically deals with missing persons ONLY if foul play is suspected.
They clearly state that they don't investigate every missing persons case & they certainly don't investigate cases where suicide is the suspected outcome.

So tell me if LE thought it was a suicide - what agency or what investigator would be working the case?

Orko Kringer wrote:

<quoted text>
Jenky, in a way I think you are answering your own question to me.
Police haven't done much.
When they hear an adult has willingfully gone missing on their own, Their (Police) resources aren't fully brought out like they would be investigating a child going missing or some sort of kidnapping that has taken place.
Fred saw the lack of urgency by law enforcement in those early days. And IMO, he had to do something to try and put pressure on the investigations. If I was a father in a similar circumstance I would do what fred did as well (introduce a boogeyman/sinister motive)
Maura's case did receive decent media attention in the early days and then the two shows came out featuring her case. It remains a mystery, one that has gotten the public's interest and that is why she appears on the CCU list. Her case is somewhat of a famous unsolved and unresolved case for the new hampshire area.

This is starting to get crazy orky,, your bias is just so strong it's unbelievable.

"police haven't done much"?!?! Have you lost it or something?
Actually they've done A LOT, according to AAG Strezlin this is the biggest investigation in NH history.
That means it's bgger than any murder, any child who's gone missing, any anything that's happened in recent NH memory.
6,000 Man hours investigative time put into this case, that's not much? THousands of pages of documents, that's not much too?

One thing that nobody can say is that police haven't done a lot, they've put a massive amount of work into this case.

Even your argument about the family wanting to pressure LE to investigate more doesn't make any sense. First of all the MCU had people on the scene by wednesday the 11th and they've worked this case ever since, as is it is a murder case, they've openly admitted that they're handling this case the same way they would handle a murder case and they actually proved in court that they are in fact doing that.
Secondly if the family thought suicide then why the hell would they be pressuring for a murder investigation?? Remember that those are two entirely different things. A murder investigation is not going to help you find someone who killed themselves in the woods somewhere.
If the family really thought suicide why wouldn't they be pressuring LE to do more searches, searches ar her favorite hiking spots and things like that? That's not what they pressured them to do at all, they pressured them to conduct a criminal investigation, which in reality LE was already doing they just didn't want to admit that.

So nobody can say the poice didn't do much, they've done more on this case than any other case ever in NH, that statement is so wrong it's ridiculous. They've searched people's properties, tried to get search warrants, they've even tried using a one party intercept somehow. NONE of these are things that you would do in a suicide case, you're not gonna find forensic evidence in the CW's trailer if she killed herself in the woods.

So there are many things that I can list that show that they've conducted a legitimate criminal investigation.

Can you name ONE thing they've done that indicates they really believe suicide?
And saying that they haven't done much is clearly and obviously wrong because they've conducted the biggest criminal investigation in NH history. LOL, my god man could you possibly be any MORE biased???

Jenkins wrote:

<quoted text>
This is starting to get crazy orky,, your bias is just so strong it's unbelievable....

Jenkins, I know that this is totally lost on you. But tell me the difference in investigative technique, if you are investigating a murder, missing person, kidnapping, or a suicide?

How do you think those investigations would be different and why? All the same leads need to be followed. Unless, like you, you start with the conclusion that you do that it was a murder. Unlike you the real investigators need to track all leads to come to a conclusion, unlike you who already knows the conclusion.

Be aware I am not actually responding to you because I know that is a waste of time. I am talking to others that hopefully will see the point that is being made.

Bill

The Red Truck on BHR was seen very close to the Town Line sign.

Going up the hill towards Benton parked beside the road.

John

Originally posted Thursday May 23, 2013:

BillNH wrote:

<quoted text>
Jenkins,
Your question was ...Can anyone show anything that shows they're NOT conducting a murder investigation?
..read the transcript from the court case FM filed to get access to investigatory documents. Det. Landry and AAG Strelzin BOTH denied they were working a murder case. They had the opportunity to call it murder, and it probably would have strengthened their case vs. FM if they had, and neither one could do it. Strelzin says" Well it truly is a missing person case, Maura Murray is missing, but it's an investigation that law enforcement is conducting looking into her disappearance. It certainly has criminal overtones to it, that's why our office is involved, and that's why the state police are doing this" and "Again, I don't know what happened to Maura Murray. I'm hopeful it's not a homicide investigation..."
That does not sound at all like a murder investigation. They both also offered in their testimony that they felt that their investigation is likely to result in criminal charges, Strelzin quantified that with a percentage, 75%. Not Murder charges, criminal charges. The fact that they do not have the confidence to even call potential charges "murder", tells me that the charges could be anything from filing a false report to insurance fraud. They never called it anything but criminal charges and backed away from calling it murder, every time. But still only potentially, and that was 6 years ago.

BillNH wrote:

<quoted text>
6000 hours. That's 750 days for one person. When you take into account the number of people involved in the searches in the early days that would chew up hundreds of those days. The court preparations for the lawsuits alone would account for at least 100 days. Even by April of 2007 Strelzin testified that as much as 6 weeks would pass between looks at MM's case. They have been at it for 9 years. If you conservatively use up half of those 750 days in the first 3 years with the searches and lawsuits, that calculates out to about a week and a half a year for 1 person over the remaining 6 years. Without the initial mass searches and the lawsuits, they really haven't put an exorbitant amount of time into this case.

Same conversation 3 weeks ago........

WTH-the-original wrote:

<quoted text>
Jenkins, I know that this is totally lost on you. But tell me the difference in investigative technique, if you are investigating a murder, missing person, kidnapping, or a suicide?
How do you think those investigations would be different and why? All the same leads need to be followed. Unless, like you, you start with the conclusion that you do that it was a murder. Unlike you the real investigators need to track all leads to come to a conclusion, unlike you who already knows the conclusion.
Be aware I am not actually responding to you because I know that is a waste of time. I am talking to others that hopefully will see the point that is being made.
Bill

This is exactly what I was trying to put into words. Thank you.

If Jenkins is able to judge actions of LE then he should have some familiarity with all investigative models for murder, missing person, kidnapping, or a suicide.

Again thank you and excellent point and post.

BillNH wrote:

LE's intention was to never have any of the files released. Why would they "plant" a fake document in those files? Calling it a red herring seems to be a red herring in itself.
Dawn's statements do back up the fact that they were looking for the number of a incoming caller, not a "ping".
She also claims that if MM's phone was off then the towers were not involved. But Sprint told Landry that a call was made from the Sprint tower in Londonderry, NH. So MM's phone was on? Was Sprint wrong? Maybe they should hire Dawn...
Dawn says on 10/11/2010 " I am just simply stating as telecomm expert that info was not correct.. which was validated by Helena. "
Yet Helena says the document is legitimate.
~Yep bringing those old posts back really cleared things up. lol

I disagree that the document was planted or fake. My guess is that the document was released to the public by mistake. If you read Renner's blog, Renner doesn't say he obtained the document through his own FOIA request. Renner says, "A few weeks ago, I discovered what appears to be a search warrant filed by Lt. Todd Landry of Troop F on this obscure website." The website he refers to belongs to Chris King. Renner goes on to say, "I spoke with Christopher King, who runs the website and, as he recalled, he was given the search warrant after filing a public records request with a lawyer who represents New Hampshire police."
http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/2011/10/searc...

If this document was meant to be seen by the public, I believe that it would also have been sent to Renner as part of Renner's FOIA request to NHSP. This is what makes me think that the lawyer who sent the document to King did so either in error or without the permission of New Hampshire police. Just my opinion.

amy researches wrote:

<quoted text>
I disagree that the document was planted or fake. My guess is that the document was released to the public by mistake. If you read Renner's blog, Renner doesn't say he obtained the document through his own FOIA request. Renner says, "A few weeks ago, I discovered what appears to be a search warrant filed by Lt. Todd Landry of Troop F on this obscure website." The website he refers to belongs to Chris King. Renner goes on to say, "I spoke with Christopher King, who runs the website and, as he recalled, he was given the search warrant after filing a public records request with a lawyer who represents New Hampshire police."
http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/2011/10/searc...
If this document was meant to be seen by the public, I believe that it would also have been sent to Renner as part of Renner's FOIA request to NHSP. This is what makes me think that the lawyer who sent the document to King did so either in error or without the permission of New Hampshire police. Just my opinion.

I agree and my opinion concurs. I was very surprised to see it characterized as a red herring by the infamous Dawn.

Lighthouse 101 wrote:

<quoted text>
This is exactly what I was trying to put into words. Thank you.
If Jenkins is able to judge actions of LE then he should have some familiarity with all investigative models for murder, missing person, kidnapping, or a suicide.
Again thank you and excellent point and post.

There are actually two parts to this post. You are correct that I am certain Jenkins wouldn't know a real investigation if he tripped over it. The other point is that a lead, is a lead, is a lead. Nothing that would come in to the CCU would be overlooked in their investigation. Regardless if she was murdered, kidnapped, ran from home, died in the woods. It would not matter to the investigators. ANY AND ALL LEADS would be investigated. For him to imply that if she was a suicide or died in the woods that the investigators wouldn't be spending this amount of time in the investigation shows how little he knows about this, about how investigations work in general. Or what the logical progression is to solve a problem, any type of problem. Again, THE LOGICAL PROGRESSION. He consistently operates from the premise that he knows what happened and proceeds to work backwards.

Bill

Ya know bill, I studied Logic. The Logic points to a team conspiracy, committed to stealing a female from West-Point. Is this what you wanted the logic to prove?

When people think of Maura, the furthest thing from their minds is an honor violation, however you and your clan are pounding the table that Maura was an honor violator.

Could it be that the people that have disparaged her so severely over the years are the one's responsible for her murder?

Duh Kelly Ayotte, Duh!

Snowy wrote:

Ya know bill, I studied Logic. The Logic points to a team conspiracy, committed to stealing a female from West-Point. Is this what you wanted the logic to prove?
When people think of Maura, the furthest thing from their minds is an honor violation, however you and your clan are pounding the table that Maura was an honor violator.
Could it be that the people that have disparaged her so severely over the years are the one's responsible for her murder?
Duh Kelly Ayotte, Duh!

Yawwnnn. This is that conspiracy nut-job from whiteplains (and surrounding areas), ny who goes by several monikers. The locations change because I suspect he transmits from different libraries when on release. I won't get into all the different names he uses because I suspect he has different names for all the people who live inside him.

Not worth bothering with. Oh, and as a side-note. I have read enough of your posts to know that you have studied nothing. And other than the one repeating theory that you seem to have, I don't see much of a train of thought either. Well, if it was a train, it's one of those kiddie trains.

Bill

amy researches wrote:

<quoted text>
I disagree that the document was planted or fake. My guess is that the document was released to the public by mistake. If you read Renner's blog, Renner doesn't say he obtained the document through his own FOIA request. Renner says, "A few weeks ago, I discovered what appears to be a search warrant filed by Lt. Todd Landry of Troop F on this obscure website." The website he refers to belongs to Chris King. Renner goes on to say, "I spoke with Christopher King, who runs the website and, as he recalled, he was given the search warrant after filing a public records request with a lawyer who represents New Hampshire police."
http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/2011/10/searc...
If this document was meant to be seen by the public, I believe that it would also have been sent to Renner as part of Renner's FOIA request to NHSP. This is what makes me think that the lawyer who sent the document to King did so either in error or without the permission of New Hampshire police. Just my opinion.

If I remember right, a poster named White Wash who was a local (college?) journalist in the Haverhill area, said that she had gone to the courthouse and gotten a copy of this affidavit. All I've ever seen is a typed version of it, not an actual scanned copy, and when I last checked with her she had been looking for it in her paperwork but hadn't found it.

Poster Dawn said that the wording of the affidavit was nothing like the ones she had seen during her time working for phone companies and that any phone company would realize from Landry's request that what he was asking for was not possible to get in the way the affidavit spells it out. So one thought I had was that maybe Landry drafted the affidavit up in the belief that what he was asking for could be done, submitted it and then found out after doing so that what he was asking for in the WAY he was asking for it, could not be done. At which point, the affidavit was useless for all intents and purposes, but still might have been retained in the file as "police work product". This might explain why it was never properly made public.

Do you think this could have happened?

I just read the Tim Carpenter interview on the Renner show. Interesting, I shared the same view of FM in tandem while searching. Maybe someone can explain where FM was the evening/morning when MM went missing before LE contact was established. I'm thinking there's something missing in this case, red herrings are everywhere and the obvious is afoot. I'm calling J Renner out, message me, WE NEED TO GET ON THE SAME PAGE! Everybody else may continue berating eachother and fill this with nonsense. I want people to work together on answering my question, the one which should have an answer. Thank you everyone who cares about MM.

WTH-the-original wrote:

<quoted text>
Yawwnnn. This is that conspiracy nut-job from whiteplains (and surrounding areas), ny who goes by several monikers. The locations change because I suspect he transmits from different libraries when on release. I won't get into all the different names he uses because I suspect he has different names for all the people who live inside him.
Not worth bothering with. Oh, and as a side-note. I have read enough of your posts to know that you have studied nothing. And other than the one repeating theory that you seem to have, I don't see much of a train of thought either. Well, if it was a train, it's one of those kiddie trains.
Bill

I may not be worth 'bothering' with, but I have a special place in my heart for you, Bill. ;-)

For everyone watching from the tent, rain delay is over.

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

shes_still_here wrote:

I just read the Tim Carpenter interview on the Renner show. Interesting, I shared the same view of FM in tandem while searching. Maybe someone can explain where FM was the evening/morning when MM went missing before LE contact was established. I'm thinking there's something missing in this case, red herrings are everywhere and the obvious is afoot. I'm calling J Renner out, message me, WE NEED TO GET ON THE SAME PAGE! Everybody else may continue berating eachother and fill this with nonsense. I want people to work together on answering my question, the one which should have an answer. Thank you everyone who cares about MM.

Q:How much of this attitude plays into finding Maura Murray?

New Hampshire senior wins state title when foe walks off court and forfeits because of fan behavior
By Cameron Smith | Prep Rally – Wed, Jun 5, 2013 2:49 PM EDT
Email
Share973
It may be the strangest way yet to win a state title. After taking the first set in the best-of-three New Hampshire girls tennis singles final, Bow (N.H.) High senior Sunday Swett was told that she had won the title. Yet it wasn’t an injury that befell her opponent, Nashua (N.H.) Bishop Guertin senior Briana Leonard. Rather, Leonard unilaterally decided to end the match because she was being heckled by the crowd.

The Bishop Guertin girls tennis team, with Briana Leonard on the front right — BGHS.org
Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a crowd-induced state champion. This may be a first.
“We had an unfortunate experience,” New Hampshire Interscholastic Activities Association Executive Director R. Patrick Corbin told the Nashua Telegrah.“I’ve never seen something like this at a tennis match.”
The forfeit occurred when Corbin attempted to shift the girls singles final to a different court at the conclusion of the first set, which Swett won 6-4. Yet, instead of heading to the new court, Leonard left the scene entirely, retreating to her car with her parents and driving home.
The elder Leonards told the Telegraph that their daughter was being persecuted by the crowd because she lives in Massachusetts and attends high school in New Hampshire.
“They were bullying her,” Karen Leonard told the Telegraph.“This has been going on for two years. They’ve wanted her out for two years because she’s not a New Hampshire girl. Because we live in Massachusetts.”

Sunday Swett, who won a state title after her foe walked off because of crowd issues — YouTube
Regardless of where the family lives, Leonard’s own coach acknowledged that dealing with hostile crowds is an integral part of sports, even if he did feel that his athlete was facing a number of challenges in the final match of her prep career.
“Bri was heavily not the crowd favorite today,” Bishop Guertin coach Barry Ndynia told the Telegraph.
“But in sports that’s something you have to deal with. Some people will not cheer for you. They’ll cheer for your opponent. That’s why I was trying to keep her focused.”
As for Swett, the senior celebrated a title in her final match and told the Concord Monitor that the stunning forfeit would not take away from her contentment with the achievement.

shes_still_here wrote:

I just read the Tim Carpenter interview on the Renner show. Interesting, I shared the same view of FM in tandem while searching. Maybe someone can explain where FM was the evening/morning when MM went missing before LE contact was established. I'm thinking there's something missing in this case, red herrings are everywhere and the obvious is afoot. I'm calling J Renner out, message me, WE NEED TO GET ON THE SAME PAGE! Everybody else may continue berating eachother and fill this with nonsense. I want people to work together on answering my question, the one which should have an answer. Thank you everyone who cares about MM.

Very interesting.....Very much so. No the FM part.

John

Advocate wrote:

<quoted text>
If I remember right, a poster named White Wash who was a local (college?) journalist in the Haverhill area, said that she had gone to the courthouse and gotten a copy of this affidavit. All I've ever seen is a typed version of it, not an actual scanned copy, and when I last checked with her she had been looking for it in her paperwork but hadn't found it.
Poster Dawn said that the wording of the affidavit was nothing like the ones she had seen during her time working for phone companies and that any phone company would realize from Landry's request that what he was asking for was not possible to get in the way the affidavit spells it out. So one thought I had was that maybe Landry drafted the affidavit up in the belief that what he was asking for could be done, submitted it and then found out after doing so that what he was asking for in the WAY he was asking for it, could not be done. At which point, the affidavit was useless for all intents and purposes, but still might have been retained in the file as "police work product". This might explain why it was never properly made public.
Do you think this could have happened?

How is it that White Wash was able to leap tall buildings?

mcsmom wrote:

<quoted text>
How is it that White Wash was able to leap tall buildings?

She has Huge springs on her feet.......or at least She did. I think She wore them out.

John

Jenkins wrote:

<quoted text>
This is starting to get crazy orky,, your bias is just so strong it's unbelievable.
"police haven't done much"?!?! Have you lost it or something?
Actually they've done A LOT, according to AAG Strezlin this is the biggest investigation in NH history.
That means it's bgger than any murder, any child who's gone missing, any anything that's happened in recent NH memory.
6,000 Man hours investigative time put into this case, that's not much? THousands of pages of documents, that's not much too?
One thing that nobody can say is that police haven't done a lot, they've put a massive amount of work into this case.
Even your argument about the family wanting to pressure LE to investigate more doesn't make any sense. First of all the MCU had people on the scene by wednesday the 11th and they've worked this case ever since, as is it is a murder case, they've openly admitted that they're handling this case the same way they would handle a murder case and they actually proved in court that they are in fact doing that.
Secondly if the family thought suicide then why the hell would they be pressuring for a murder investigation?? Remember that those are two entirely different things. A murder investigation is not going to help you find someone who killed themselves in the woods somewhere.
If the family really thought suicide why wouldn't they be pressuring LE to do more searches, searches ar her favorite hiking spots and things like that? That's not what they pressured them to do at all, they pressured them to conduct a criminal investigation, which in reality LE was already doing they just didn't want to admit that.
So nobody can say the poice didn't do much, they've done more on this case than any other case ever in NH, that statement is so wrong it's ridiculous. They've searched people's properties, tried to get search warrants, they've even tried using a one party intercept somehow. NONE of these are things that you would do in a suicide case, you're not gonna find forensic evidence in the CW's trailer if she killed herself in the woods.
So there are many things that I can list that show that they've conducted a legitimate criminal investigation.
Can you name ONE thing they've done that indicates they really believe suicide?
And saying that they haven't done much is clearly and obviously wrong because they've conducted the biggest criminal investigation in NH history. LOL, my god man could you possibly be any MORE biased???

I can name one thing without having to do any thinking or digging.

Maura's car.

Why was this car not sercured if police were truly investigating some sort of crime?

Her car sat in a parking lot off a main highway for over a year before police took custody of it.

If you have a crime,(And you don't know if it took place around the car, at the car or further down the road, I would think you would want to preserve evidence if you truly suspected foul play. Espeically if you believe one of these wacko theories that Maura wasn't really driving the car or Maura was meeting up with someone.