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Since: Nov 08
Location hidden
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Maruchan wrote: I just noticed that the New England K-9 Search and Rescue website where Nancy Lyon's information is located says:
"Volunteer airscent search dog teams searching wilderness, water and debris." And this is one of the rubs. Air-scent dogs rarely, not never, but rarely use scent articles. They usually don't discriminate between scents, will usually track any human scent. Scent articles are usually for tracking dogs, and tracking dogs usually, not always, but usually have their noses in the dirt. This is why I don't know what to make of some of the things that I had read/heard about that search. Has bothered me since day one. Never got a chance to ask Nancy at any of the few meetings that I had with her. Air-scent dogs that track are not as reliable as ones that track with their nose to the ground, that is why most tracking dogs are not air-scent. They tracking dogs that track with their noses in the dirt work scent better because the scent on the air can disperse much faster as opposed to the ground where it can lay and stay concentrated for a much, much longer time. There have always been other questions about who collected the scent article and how it was used. There has never been anything made public, that I am aware of as to what the police k9, if there was one. It appears to be implied in the press report that there was one. What was their findings if they existed? I have asked these questions over and over and have never gotten any answers. I understood why they didn't answer in 2004. Now, I don't even know if I would trust an answer because the principles that I would trust, namely Nancy, has passed away, If there was a police handler I would be interested in what his dog found. Bill
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Since: Feb 12
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WTH-the-original wrote: <quoted text>
And this is one of the rubs. Air-scent dogs rarely, not never, but rarely use scent articles. They usually don't discriminate between scents, will usually track any human scent. Scent articles are usually for tracking dogs, and tracking dogs usually, not always, but usually have their noses in the dirt. This is why I don't know what to make of some of the things that I had read/heard about that search. Has bothered me since day one. Never got a chance to ask Nancy at any of the few meetings that I had with her. Air-scent dogs that track are not as reliable as ones that track with their nose to the ground, that is why most tracking dogs are not air-scent. They tracking dogs that track with their noses in the dirt work scent better because the scent on the air can disperse much faster as opposed to the ground where it can lay and stay concentrated for a much, much longer time.
There have always been other questions about who collected the scent article and how it was used.
There has never been anything made public, that I am aware of as to what the police k9, if there was one. It appears to be implied in the press report that there was one. What was their findings if they existed?
I have asked these questions over and over and have never gotten any answers. I understood why they didn't answer in 2004. Now, I don't even know if I would trust an answer because the principles that I would trust, namely Nancy, has passed away, If there was a police handler I would be interested in what his dog found.
Bill Thanks, Bill. It looks like Maruchan's sources confirm what I had remembered reading and hearing in a few places (I think Disappeared also mentioned this) about Nancy using an air scent dog in the first search. My email is down at the moment but I think I made a mistake in my first email to you, the search I was talking about was Thursday and not Wednesday. Too bad you never got to ask Nancy. It sounds like she is the only one who would know some of these answers for sure.
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Since: Mar 13
Woodsville, NH
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Alson Olden wrote: Will we solve this before a decade has passed? Doubtful, in my opinion, although I wouldn't mind being wrong about it.
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Since: Nov 08
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amy researches wrote: <quoted text>
Thanks, Bill. It looks like Maruchan's sources confirm what I had remembered reading and hearing in a few places (I think Disappeared also mentioned this) about Nancy using an air scent dog in the first search. My email is down at the moment but I think I made a mistake in my first email to you, the search I was talking about was Thursday and not Wednesday. Too bad you never got to ask Nancy. It sounds like she is the only one who would know some of these answers for sure. Add to that the only report that was actually reported on was Nancy's search as far as I know. We don't know what the supposed police k9 found or didn't find. Did it track the same way as Nancy's dog, or head in a completely different direction? Was NHSP's dog a tracking or trailing or cadaver dog? And what is "known" about Nancy's search was second hand at best. Interpretations or speculation by witnesses. I don't know that anyone ever interviewed Nancy about what she thinks her search yielded. Is there a first person report from Nancy somewhere? I don't remember reading one. You know, an article with quotes of words she supposedly said pertaining to this case and how she interpreted how her dog behaved? As usual, far more questions than answers and this is just like everything about this case. Separating the wheat from the chaff has always been the most difficult part of this case even with as little information as there is. Bill
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“"CONFUSION CENTRAL"”
Since: Dec 11
Franconia NH
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What a beautiful day in Franconia today. Awesome.
John
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Since: Jan 12
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WTH-the-original wrote: <quoted text>
This will never be solved until some new evidence comes to light. The current information is absolutely too thin to draw ANY conclusions. And the known information doesn't point to any particular manner or cause of her disappearance. Most are possible, but currently there is no evidence for many of the possibilities. The only good news is, that it might not take a lot to break this case. A single bone found or a misplaced word dropped here or there. That might be all it would take.
Bill yes
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hannah_b
Sweden
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James Renner wrote: For the record, my little sister was being stalked and these charges stem from my attempt to explain that to the court.
As for John, he wasn't "fired". I think he brings important analysis to the discussion and he's welcome to contribute again in the future. We do feel for you, James. As for JG, there is no doubt he is a true expert on the subject of masturbation, mental or other.
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hannah_b
Sweden
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Det Columbo wrote: What a beautiful day in Franconia today. Awesome.
John No snow on the ground today? No creepy guys sleeping in their cars at Walmart parking lot?
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hannah_b
Sweden
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WTH-the-original wrote: <quoted text>
And this is one of the rubs. Air-scent dogs rarely, not never, but rarely use scent articles. They usually don't discriminate between scents, will usually track any human scent. Scent articles are usually for tracking dogs, and tracking dogs usually, not always, but usually have their noses in the dirt. This is why I don't know what to make of some of the things that I had read/heard about that search. Has bothered me since day one. Never got a chance to ask Nancy at any of the few meetings that I had with her. Air-scent dogs that track are not as reliable as ones that track with their nose to the ground, that is why most tracking dogs are not air-scent. They tracking dogs that track with their noses in the dirt work scent better because the scent on the air can disperse much faster as opposed to the ground where it can lay and stay concentrated for a much, much longer time.
There have always been other questions about who collected the scent article and how it was used.
There has never been anything made public, that I am aware of as to what the police k9, if there was one. It appears to be implied in the press report that there was one. What was their findings if they existed?
I have asked these questions over and over and have never gotten any answers. I understood why they didn't answer in 2004. Now, I don't even know if I would trust an answer because the principles that I would trust, namely Nancy, has passed away, If there was a police handler I would be interested in what his dog found.
Bill Air scent dogs are just as reliable as ground scent ("tracking") dogs. Itīs just a different method, ususlly used under different circumstances. I fail to understand why they would use an air scent dog in this particular situation (tracing where MM may have gone when leaving her car). A tracking dog, and in particular a blood hound (bc of old track), would have been more helpful. In later searches, when they were thoroughly searching a particular area, an air scent dog should be used. As for the scent object, itīs no really a matter of WHO fetched it, but rather HOW it was fetched. Ideally pliers or at least a plastic bag should have been used, so not to contaminate the object. This is taught in classes at beginners level.
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Since: Nov 08
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hannah_b wrote: <quoted text>
Air scent dogs are just as reliable as ground scent ("tracking") dogs. Itīs just a different method, ususlly used under different circumstances. I fail to understand why they would use an air scent dog in this particular situation (tracing where MM may have gone when leaving her car). A tracking dog, and in particular a blood hound (bc of old track), would have been more helpful. In later searches, when they were thoroughly searching a particular area, an air scent dog should be used.
As for the scent object, itīs no really a matter of WHO fetched it, but rather HOW it was fetched. Ideally pliers or at least a plastic bag should have been used, so not to contaminate the object. This is taught in classes at beginners level. I wasn't talking about reliability. I was talking, as you mentioned, it's about using the proper resources. Using an air-scent dog that is a tracker (if this is what happened) ten days after the subject is gone, strikes me as an exercise in futility. Possibly a tracker that is a nose in the dirt type, like a bloodhound, I could and think would expect better results. As far as the scent article, I teach proper retrieval of such items all the time. KNOWING that it was retrieved properly is something the handler would need to be certain of. Again, I want to point out that I DO NOT KNOW THE SPECIFICS OF THESE SEARCHES. All of us are speculating and our speculations could be entirely incorrect. I also want to point out that none of this would have been lost on Nancy so without knowing the full story, it is next to impossible to make any determination as to what was done. that was why I was asking these questions in 2004. And yes, the fact I don't know the answers is immaterial. I do sincerely hope that SOMEONE does know the answers, but I really have my doubts at this point. Bill
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citigirl
Fall River, MA
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Funny how Renner expects us to believe what LE has stated concerning Maura is true. Now the shoe is on the other foot and his tune changes concerning LE when it personaly involves him. He is being charged with assaulting an officer according to his facebook. They just dont throw people who show up in court with others whom have pending cases in jail for nothing.
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citigirl
Fall River, MA
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Alson Olden wrote: Will we solve this before a decade has passed? Sadly to say I dont believe so.
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Since: Jun 13
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On FEB 5, 2004 PV was the victim of a hit and run. 45 minutes later MM was found crying at her place of employment. For a girl who had committed ID theft, is it really a stretch to imagine she'd abandon her job sans supervision? Or flee from the scene of a crime she committed?
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elsewherebriefly
Calabash, NC
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"It is our honor to present to you this report as required by N.H. Laws 269:1, III (2009), regarding the activities of the Cold Case Unit. The Cold Case Unit was created by an Act of the General Court and signed into law by the Governor on July 29, 2009. This legislation established for the first time in this State a dedicated investigation and prosecution team to help resolve unsolved homicide cases. Homicide cases leave a lasting toll on the family members of the victims. The fact that more than 100 homicide cases remain unsolved in this State means that many killers have not been brought to justice." http://doj.nh.gov/criminal/cold-case/document...
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elsewherebriefly
Calabash, NC
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Why am I not surprised no one has read the Cold Case Unit Status Report that was issued by NHSP Major Crimes, the Attorney General and the Cold Case Unit back in 2010.. ALL of the cases under the jurisdiction of the CCU (cold case unit) are being investigated as homicides..... I landed here because of a google alert.. and I will not be back so replying to me will be a total waste of anyone's time.. bye bye
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Since: Jun 13
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Alson Olden wrote: On FEB 5, 2004 PV was the victim of a hit and run. 45 minutes later MM was found crying at her place of employment. For a girl who had committed ID theft, is it really a stretch to imagine she'd abandon her job sans supervision? Or flee from the scene of a crime she committed? PV's life changed forever that night. A few nights later, MM's life changed forever. What a fascinating mystery this disappearance is. Hard to believe it's been nearly a decade.
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Since: Jun 13
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It does seem that Maura drank a lot. Drinking can be very addicting, but so can anything else. Such as posting to message boards. Both activities, for example, can easily meet the quoted definition of an addiction: ''Loss of control, continuation of the behavior despite significant adverse consequences and preoccupation with obtaining the drug (or time online) or pursuing the behavior (or making posts).''
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_FATMAN_
San Francisco, CA
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Quickly Robin...to the Butter factory...
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“"CONFUSION CENTRAL"”
Since: Dec 11
Franconia NH
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Alden......Did You hit Petrit Vasi......?
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“"CONFUSION CENTRAL"”
Since: Dec 11
Franconia NH
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Alson Olden wrote: It does seem that Maura drank a lot. Drinking can be very addicting, but so can anything else. Such as posting to message boards. Both activities, for example, can easily meet the quoted definition of an addiction:''Loss of control, continuation of the behavior despite significant adverse consequences and preoccupation with obtaining the drug (or time online) or pursuing the behavior (or making posts).'' OR posting taunting videos..........
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Dating
