Maura Murray

Findmaura ...:

findmaura wrote:

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What I was thinking,At a bigger intersection she would see familiar towns.Bradley Hill Road ends at 116 also..From what I remember while driving in that area,there were very few large intersections.So thats out.

findmaura wrote:

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It was records pertaining to Molly Bish..Also unsolved.But the ticket may be the real deal.

... is all these people too (note same typing ideosyncracies):

sandinmysuit wrote:

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I think you have summed it up nicely .They have spent years here,For what?I think their new little vagina club "stinks"..

nostinkenclubs wrote:

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Should she be considered?

sandinmysuit wrote:

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A fine shop.. Beachy finds..Right up my alley..My meager fortunes dont allow me to partake..but the others must sit in 25 mile traffic jams...

sandinmysuit wrote:

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It certainly is an interesting unsolved case..But are you thinking it relates to Maura?..Hmm 1974

Totheagendaclan wrote:

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A girl missing from Florida could be the lady in the dunes.I know nothing about her connection to N.H.,but I have never researched it.Here is a discussion of the possible florida connection:
www.websleuths.com/forums/archive/&#8203;...

Totheagendaclan wrote:

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Cut and paste just might work...The agenda clan is a self absorbed clan of Topix groupies.Much too busy bashing JG to research his research on the lady in the dunes.

She said long ago that she would never post here again, but she has never stopped. She also posts negative posts about all of us on Renner's blog. Her new hero is JG - it figures.

:)

Totheagendaclan wrote:

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Cut and paste just might work...The agenda clan is a self absorbed clan of Topix groupies.Much too busy bashing JG to research his research on the lady in the dunes.

Nope doesn't work but that's ok because I'm not all that interested.
No one is bashing JG. He came here insulting the posters and then has the nerve to come and ask the posters here to come over to his blog and become an author and add to the conversation or some such thing. Yeah right!
Twice I've asked him how he knew that this lady in the dunes came from Florida and stayed in NH and he has completely ignored my question. Too good to answer questions here but yet wants us to come over to his blog and spill whatever we've learned through the years of posting here and years of researching.
He's going over things that has been talked about for years. If he was smart he'd go back and read from the beginning as many here have done.
But that takes time and work. Much easier to let the cheap seats supply information to be used in his article.

Maruchan wrote:

Findmaura ...:
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... is all these people too (note same typing ideosyncracies):
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She said long ago that she would never post here again, but she has never stopped. She also posts negative posts about all of us on Renner's blog. Her new hero is JG - it figures.
:)

You're correct. She's been posting all along. I knew awhile back when she kept bringing up things about what happened in Franconia and ranted about certain people that were involved in some way.
She's the only one that I know of that kept bringing that incident into this forum.

Maruchan wrote:

Findmaura ...:
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... is all these people too (note same typing ideosyncracies):
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She said long ago that she would never post here again, but she has never stopped. She also posts negative posts about all of us on Renner's blog. Her new hero is JG - it figures.
:)

spot on.

John Green is a forty something freak who took a huge risk by giving up his career and moving to Ashville to reinvent himself as a musician. In his own words...Asheville.... John, in typical John Green fashion, being a hostage to his own amazingly analytical mind, jumped on his horse and rode off to his destination without a second thought. But for the lack of an "N" we would all buying his cd's and singing about shower curtains...John my dear boy, It's Nashville! nice try though. Don't be mad at RF because he has the same guitar as you. We all use cutaways these days. so much easier to get down there past the twelfth fret for that octave...You have inspired me to pack it all up and head to Memphis Cal. or possibly even LA Tennessee.I've written a few songs about door mats and dish racks that I'm certain will be big hits.

it's interesting to observe the natural progression of blog-foolery; i've seen it before.
wanton, outrageous claims made by a blogger, a rush for and against, blogger's nose out of joint, and the inevitable self-talk.
but Mr. G has successfully infiltrated the Topix forum / conversation. he has become the focus. a win!
ladies, i understand...been there, done that. the screen shots, documentation, and giving up on futile attempts to reason with unreasonable..
but i did it. just play it out to your satisfaction.

The Saturn was found located in front of Marrotte's house much further east and closer to Forciers house.

Risiculous wrote:

John Green is a forty something freak who took a huge risk by giving up his career and moving to Ashville to reinvent himself as a musician. In his own words...Asheville.... John, in typical John Green fashion, being a hostage to his own amazingly analytical mind, jumped on his horse and rode off to his destination without a second thought. But for the lack of an "N" we would all buying his cd's and singing about shower curtains...John my dear boy, It's Nashville! nice try though. Don't be mad at RF because he has the same guitar as you. We all use cutaways these days. so much easier to get down there past the twelfth fret for that octave...You have inspired me to pack it all up and head to Memphis Cal. or possibly even LA Tennessee.I've written a few songs about door mats and dish racks that I'm certain will be big hits.

so your best advice is not to quit the day job? check out how many frogs are swimming in the pond before taking the leap? get botox? highlights or some sunburstong in the hair? swap out the suit jacket? any other hints to make that CD happen sooner than later?

PAULINE CLARK found deceased in a stream in the mid eighties @ the Mountain Lakes Lodge located on Valley rd. in N. Havehill.

BETTY and BARNEY HILL claim to have been abducted by aliens not far from Haverhill, NH.

Maruchan wrote:

In case anybody is wondering why we're talking about Rick Forcier and CDs, earlier today Green posted a blog entry titled "Why I Think Rick Forcier Lied + A Personal Message to Mr. Forcier" which theorized that Forcier made up the story about seeing a person believed to be MM because it would help him sell CDs. Green called Forcier a liar several times and asked Forcier to contact him to explain, otherwise Green would include his accusations and theories in the article he is writing (which Green was certain would be published locally and nationally and would be highly respected or some other bull - he highly praised himself anyway).
Several members of his blog criticized his post and Green quickly revised it, so you can't see the original post. I didn't move quickly enough to get screenshots and so far there isn't a cached copy available on Google, so I don't have exact quotes, but I can say that Green's God-complex was once again highly on display.

I had the original post on my iPhone(1 of ?)

Yet another post to lay the foundation for future posts around a brewing working theory. I ask you to review it with skepticism and offer an opinion. In this case that is particularly important, because as you can see, with the facts and logic I have now, I am of a mind to call out Rick Forcier on pretty stark terms. So, colleague-authors here – or any commenter – please refute, tweak, bolster or debunk as you will. I much want the final conclusion I go forward with about Rick’s statement to reflect community collaborative thinking, which always is more powerful than the product of a single mind.
For reference, recall this credible account of Rick’s role in the case from Renner’s blog:

“Forcier [entered] the story several months after Maura’s disappearance when he [tells authorities] he might have seen Maura running near [on 112] on his way home from work …[Some wondered] why Forcier waited so long to come forward.

“[Renner] spoke to Diane and Rusty Cowles [neighbors of Rick's, still in touch with him]. Forcier [had] explained to them that it was only when he was going over his bills that he pieced together that he had been working in Franconia the night Maura vanished and must have been coming home about a half hour after the accident. He thought back on that night and figured it must have been the same evening he saw what he thought at the time was a teenage boy in a hoodie crossing the road quickly in front of him, near 116, several miles East of the crash site. He wondered if it could have been Maura.”
Recall also this analysis of mine on Renner’s blog. Based on some conservative assumptions, including one about how fast Maura might been able to run that night, I concluded that it was possible and even plausible for Maura to have arrived via running at the the range of areas where Rick said he saw the runner in the hoodie.
I spent a lot of time during my recent trip to Havehill considering Rick’s statement. I three times drove his route home; twice in the dark. While it remains in my view plausible that Maura physically could have been where Rick alleges he saw the darting hoodie-clad character, I now think – and in fact feel strongly – that this did not happen.
The starting point for this conclusion is the observation – as many others already have posited - that it is hard to conceive of Rick coming home that night and not seeing the commotion around the accident scene as he turned onto Bradley Hill Road (BHR) to then immediately turn into the driveway of his property at the corner of BHR and Route 112. Figure 1 below depicts the fact as he made this turn, he was slowing down while facing at 600+ feet a bunch of rescue vehicles, the Saturn, people milling around, an unusual amount of vehicle light from the Weathered Barn curve – possibly including emergency flashing lights – and maybe even Officer Cecil Smith walking along 112 shining his flashlight into the woods or talking with Butch.

2 of ?:

For refeernce, Rick’s view toward all that unusual light and commotion would have been a straight shot and unobstructed, as shown in the picture to the right.
Moreover, beyond this, consider Figure 2. It shows that the zone 4-5 miles east where Rick claims to the hoodie clad runner darted in front of his car includes – right in the middle of the span – the turn off for Route 116 South.
Now, you have to visualize driving along 112, especially at night. It is dark, there are clusters of trees on other side, with the tree line often situated right up against the road. By the point where Rick says he saw the hoodie-clad runner, you are only a mile or two out of the White Mountain National Forest. There are not nearly as many residences back there as there are in closer to Haverhill. The road is dark and almost tunnel like due to the trees on either side, sometimes clustered close to the road and sometimes creating a canopy overhead. As the road bobs and weaves, rises and dips, there is very little to distinguish one segment from the next, either in terms of landmarks or differentiated character of the road, even as you go around the ubiquitous curves. Meanwhile, the houses and other structures that are there are away from the road, often behind trees and hard to see, particularly at night. As such, there simply are not many memorable landmarks on the roadway. A couple that do come to mind are the turn off for 116 north and south, with its ample signage and the sharp curve that takes you across the stone bridge over the Wild Amoonoosuc.
When the out of place hoodie-clad runner darted in front of him, Rick had either just passed or was coming up on one of these infrequent landmarks along Route 112: the turnoff for Route 116. The visceral and surprising event would have triggered a shot of adrenaline, both for the sudden arising of danger and because it is so uncommon to see a pedestrian out there at night, particularly one in a hoodie playing chicken. Rick would have been startled. And because of the emotional arousal of the event he described, per human nature, he most likely would have remembered where it happened as specifically as possible, certainly relying on the recnet landmark of the turn off to Route 116 South.

In that context, you would expect that Rick’s description should have been very specific. Something like “right about at 116 South, you know where you pass the turn off and then the road does that quick swerve to the right and left … all of the sudden this person in a hoodie …” Anyone familiar with the roads, like a nearby resident … like Rick … would have mentioned that one of the rare landmarks (the turn onto 116 South with its signage) was in the immediate vicinity of this viscerally poignant event of an an out of a rare character (a pedestrian at night), odder still for the hoodie, darting in front of his car then hustling off evasively into the woods. But the way Rick describes it is much more general that it seems not credible:“4-5 miles east.”
Think about it this way. Imagine you experienced the same thing Rick claimed to near your home. Given that you may live in a more populated area, imagine it was at 4:00 am, when you would not have expected to see anyone on the road, much less someone in a hoodie darting in front of your car. How would you describe it? In imagining my own situation – and in fact one where I once lived on a long rural road – I would describe the things near it, not give a 25% wide range of distances, at least if a landmark was available. And in Rick’s case, one of rural 112s landmarks was right there practically insisting itself upon him as the way to describe where he’d seen this hoodie clad runner playing chicken.

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To see this point from another angle, consider the implication I am not trying to hide. To wit, suppose Rick simply lied; suppose
he made the whole thing up. When inventing his story, he may not have known exactly what was 4-5 miles east so he would not have mentioned the obvious landmark. In other words, the vagueness of the way he describes where it happened – if it means anything (and it might not)– tends to corroborate the foregoing logic about all the commotion in his house surely causing him to wonder about the highly strange person he had just seen and it being very strange that that did not happen.
Futher buttressing the above buttressing reasoning is the fact that Rick explained to his neighbors that he recalled when reviewing his bills that February 9th must have been the night he was in Franconia and oh yeah that’s when that girl went missing.(See the link above to and quote above from Renner’s page). To think about this critically, take a look at Figure 3, below.

As depicted in Figure 3, it is clear that Rick came home from Franconia on Route 116, turning right onto 112, then passing the turn off to continue on 116 south, remaining on 112 to BHR. I-93 would have required nearly twice the travelling time (44 minutes compared to 25, although this could vary depending on where exactly in Franconia he was working). This would only tend to strengthen in his mind that the viscerally poignant hoodie darter event happened in the immediate vicinity of Route 116, one of the infrequent landmarks as you go on those two lane highways back there.
But there is even more. Let’s examine the logic of the proposition offered by Rick to his neighbors, according to the statements on Renner’s page, quoted and linked above. To wit, putting it – and the sub rosa logic required to make it work – into simplistic expression, it goes like this (in apocryphal words I’d imagine Rick using if were being completely candid):
“After encountering a HIGHLY unusual and emotionally resonant/startling event of a character in a hoodie darting in front of my car on a dark rural road where rarely is ever seen any pedestrian at night, I EITHER (1) failed to think that perhaps all those emergency vehicles in my direct view – that is, 600 feet down the street as I SLOWED to turn onto BHR toward the driveway of my house where I could have heard the people at the scene talking – MIGHT have something to do with that highly unusual character that just darted in front of my car then darted into the woods, not ten minutes ago or (2) I failed to notice all that commotion and light because …. umm … I sneezed right then …
“HOWEVER …

“Months later while preparing expenses that I had just been floating for my clients for a while, I did make the connection that I had been in Franconia on the 9th – which, mind you, must have been the day I saw that character in the hoodie, becasue I NEVER come home from the east for ANY of my other jobs, say in the last six months, so it had to be that night I was darted in front of by the hoodie clad runner. And – oh yeah, whaddaya know!– that’s the day the girl disappeared who I like to joke around about raping in my basement … you know, the one that disappeared practically right in front of my house without me at that moment paying it no mind.”
In a word: no.
But why would Rick lie? I can’t just suggest he lied, right? I have to offer a reason that he would have lied.
In general that is tough. I don’t know the man. But still, one ulterior motive LEAPS up and suggests itself.

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If you are ever in Haverhill, visit the Stage Stop and note the CDs they have for sale, including one by Rick Forcier. And recall this video that Renner posted. Now look, I can relate to Rick. I too am a freak in my 40s and I have been reinventing myself as a musician. But to do it, I left my career, moved to Asheville and took a huge financial risk to do it. It looks to me like Rick’s marketing strategy has to do with piggy backing on Maura’s tragic fate.
In that context, some of you know already that the predominant message of my article about Maura is that where she is now matters less to everyone but her family, compared to the true significance of Maura’s case to us: how MASSIVE, ongoing failures of community bury her deeper and deeper and deeper, whether she be dead in the woods or alive somewhere with the secret inside of a dead, struggling kid that never got to grow up. Hence, the sharp and sarcastic tone of this message, reflecting a certain disgust with Rick Forcier.
Maybe I have reasoned it out without spotting a mistake in my own thinking? Well, that is why this blog is here. Communities develop knowledge better than any one person can. So tell me please if I am wrong. And if I owe Rick an apology for unmistakeably calling him a liar and a bit part villain in Maura’s case, I will take my lumps. But right now, this is how it looks to me.
Finally, a message to you Rick Forcier, if you happen to read this blog. I am going to publish an article in either a regional or national magazine. I aim to make it a success and have reason to believe it will be. I think a lot of people will read it. Pending any corrections or counter arguments from my colleague-authors here, what I have to go on is what I laid out above.
I would like to talk to you. I want to give you the chance to refute this, give me more information, and show me why I am wrong. Or, perhaps, to give you a chance to apologize and atone in recognition for a very bad mistake in judgment on your part. But in any case to get clear and square with you before I submit this article. Otherwise – and unless my colleague-authors here and I conclude that my above analysis is in error, you have a preview of the posture the article will take toward you.
Because Rick, as I see it now, your lie probably emerged from you hearing news of the dog track. And so you figured,“what harm merely reinforcing what they already know if it will sell my CDs to the Maura tourists at the Stage Stop?” Well here now comes the harm. We know from law enforcement sources and experts that the dog track is not really worth considering and provides no evidence that she moved east, something that may have come to light a long time ago if there had been more reason to scrutinize it closely without you corroboration hanging out there. If I am right, you owe a lot of people an apology.

BillNH wrote:

<quoted text>Based on some conservative assumptions, including one about how fast Maura might been able to run that night, I concluded that it was possible and even plausible for Maura to have arrived via running at the the range of areas where Rick said he saw the runner in the hoodie.

After the timelines had settled down, I came to this same conclusion several years ago and reported the same.

Bill

WTH-the-original wrote:

BETTY and BARNEY HILL claim to have been abducted by aliens not far from Haverhill, NH.

Betty and Barney WERE abducted by aliens in Lincoln NH.

Det Columbo wrote:

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Betty and Barney WERE abducted by aliens in Lincoln NH.

When in doubt blurt it out.

Det Columbo wrote:

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Betty and Barney WERE abducted by aliens in Lincoln NH.

So what's to say that the aliens didn't come back that night and pluck Maura up to their spaceship. I think we should add this scenario to the table along with all the others.

Lighthouse 101 wrote:

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When in doubt blurt it out.

No, no. You are being too harsh with our intrepid detective. I also believe that is exactly what happened to Maura. For once, the detective and I are on the same page. And I am also certain that it was the aliens that supplied this trailer hitch which is how they caused the extensive damage to the car. WE NEED TO FEAR THESE ALIENS, THEY ARE KIDNAPPING OUR CITIZENS.

Whatever happens, the last thing you need is having your vehicle whacked by an alien trailer hitch.

Is he a preeminent goofball or what?

Bill

WTH-the-original wrote:

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After the timelines had settled down, I came to this same conclusion several years ago and reported the same.
Bill

Yes but it didn't take you 10000 words to say it, so it doesn't count.