Maura Murray

Looking4AMoose wrote:

<quoted text>
why 2 1/2 years before agreeing to meet?

It would be interesting to hear the answer to your question.

Beagle wrote:

Regarding my "paranoia," with or without quotation marks...

Sorry Beagle, I'm not buying it. Never have and I certainly didn't use quotation marks around the word paranoia. I don't believe that you have had any covert surveillance done on you, that there is anyone after you, etc. I do believe that you believe it but I don't. It doesn't make any sense. What could you have done to make yourself such a focus of the investigation? The egg conspiracy theory? Jesus, don't get me started on that. In short I don't believe that any of the focus of the investigation is on you, or that there is any reason it might be. I do believe that you believe it. I have avoided discussing subjects with you primarily for that reason. I remember some of the things you say people accused you of and I didn't see those statements as reflecting any threats. And just so I can nip this in the bud early. You will never see me in MA doing surveillance on you. I don't care who you are, I don't believe you had anything to do with Maura's disappearance, or even have a viable theory as to her disappearance. I also have nothing to do with egg harvesting so I have no financial, personal or professional motive to harm or harass you because you are trying bring that industry down. As far as the trailer hitch theory only one person, the PI mentioned it. Never heard you write about it and wasn't writing in reference to it about you, ever. My last comment to you is that I refuse to get involved with these kinds of theories especially with the circular logic that you often employ.

Bill

WTH-the-original wrote:

<quoted text>
Sorry Beagle, I'm not buying it. Never have and I certainly didn't use quotation marks around the word paranoia. I don't believe that you have had any covert surveillance done on you, that there is anyone after you, etc. I do believe that you believe it but I don't. It doesn't make any sense. What could you have done to make yourself such a focus of the investigation? The egg conspiracy theory? Jesus, don't get me started on that. In short I don't believe that any of the focus of the investigation is on you, or that there is any reason it might be. I do believe that you believe it. I have avoided discussing subjects with you primarily for that reason. I remember some of the things you say people accused you of and I didn't see those statements as reflecting any threats. And just so I can nip this in the bud early. You will never see me in MA doing surveillance on you. I don't care who you are, I don't believe you had anything to do with Maura's disappearance, or even have a viable theory as to her disappearance. I also have nothing to do with egg harvesting so I have no financial, personal or professional motive to harm or harass you because you are trying bring that industry down. As far as the trailer hitch theory only one person, the PI mentioned it. Never heard you write about it and wasn't writing in reference to it about you, ever. My last comment to you is that I refuse to get involved with these kinds of theories especially with the circular logic that you often employ.
Bill

Very well and kindly put Bill.

Beagle wrote:

I guess you're saying that Sgt. Dan McCarthy of the Greenfield MA PD never asked me in Sept. 2008 about some photos he tried to badger me about? That he and Officer Green were never in the same interrogation room with me at 321 High St., Greenfield MA? I just made that one up? There's no written record of it anywhere at the Greenfield MA police station?

Sorry, meant to write Sept. 2007, not 2008. It's a time I'll never forget.

Oh, and Bill, I guess if I hallucinated being at the Greenfield PD, so did Officers Logan and Green and Sgt. McCarthy? We all saw the same thing and we're all delusional?

And the MA PI is also delusional? He imagined that he also sat on the same bench just outside the main entrance to Target and for over an hour spoke with me about Molly Bish and Maura Murray, among other topics? He, too, is delusional?

Because I can furnish written proof to verify almost everything I've claimed. But you, from the light of your computer monitor, can know - REALLY, REALLY KNOW - things just didn't happen the way documents corroborate. You smaht, Bill, real, real smaht. You and your back-slapping fan club that can't distinguish the high ground from plain old BS. You see over hills and across valleys everything that goes on. You some smaht.

Sure it would, but we both know that any response given on it will only someone's opinion and not the reality.

RE: Egg harvesting---interesting it should get mentioned again here--There was just a big fundraiser/sanctioned road race in RI to raise money to fight human trafficking, one of the ways that egg harvesting gets accomplished. How ironic. Oh how this topix doe snothing more than go 'round and 'round.

Wowzer the real one wrote:

<quoted text> It would be interesting to hear the answer to your question.

Looking4AMoose wrote:

Sure it would, but we both know that any response given on it will only someone's opinion and not the reality.
RE: Egg harvesting---interesting it should get mentioned again here--There was just a big fundraiser/sanctioned road race in RI to raise money to fight human trafficking, one of the ways that egg harvesting gets accomplished. How ironic. Oh how this topix doe snothing more than go 'round and 'round.
<quoted text>

Thanks for mentioning the human trafficking part of coerced egg donation.

Was in a hurry, so I didn't read all of this opinion piece, but at a glance I thought it was worth passing along. There are a number of news articles and studies about coerced egg donation - including a study done by a department of ethics at UMass/Amherst - that can be found online. It's not a subject most people want to explore, but egg donation and its accompanying black market are here for a while, along with increasingly complex and socially problematic human biological manipulation. Not saying it was what happened to Maura, but in the 21st century we should not be putting our heads in the sand about it. It may not be probable, but it sure is possible.

http://www.firstthings.com/onthesquare/2008/0...

Beagle wrote:

<quoted text>
Thanks for mentioning the human trafficking part of coerced egg donation.
Was in a hurry, so I didn't read all of this opinion piece, but at a glance I thought it was worth passing along. There are a number of news articles and studies about coerced egg donation - including a study done by a department of ethics at UMass/Amherst - that can be found online. It's not a subject most people want to explore, but egg donation and its accompanying black market are here for a while, along with increasingly complex and socially problematic human biological manipulation. Not saying it was what happened to Maura, but in the 21st century we should not be putting our heads in the sand about it. It may not be probable, but it sure is possible.
http://www.firstthings.com/onthesquare/2008/0...

though highly unlikely.
even if the shoe fits, sometimes it doesn't go with the outfit...and shouldn't be worn.
suspect another scenario.

Beagle wrote:

Regarding my "paranoia," with or without quotation marks...
Fact: my phone call in 2008 to the Fretted Instrument Workshop, Amherst MA, was eavesdropped upon. There is no other explanation for Quija to have mentioned "spalted wood."
Fact: I have been followed by a retired MA State Police PI. I never saw him, but was informed of his activity reliably by two MA police officers, independent of each other, 200 miles apart. These two police officers even knew exactly where I had been in Falmouth MA on a specific date and at a specific time. Only someone following me could have known this. I was informed that my brother's best friend, Thomas R. Holmes, who travels with bodyguards, hired the PI. Mr. Holmes is known for his ownership of Key Air and Keystone Aviation of Oxford CT, which company was cited in 2004 for having, in everyday terms, bribed former Gov. John G. Rowland out of office and into federal prison.
Fact: It has been strongly suggested that I produced child porn. Not viewed it, PRODUCED it. Only two people have stated such a thing: the poster "elsewhere briefly" (EWB) and Sgt. Dan McCarthy of the Greenfield PD. It was first stated by McCarthy, then later by EWB. Nothing was ever said on these Topix threads which might have led EWB to post such a comment, which was posted not long after Sgt McCarthy's suggestion. I regard both suggestions, which are totally false, as some form of intimidation.
Fact: Greenfield Police Officer Logan alerted me that my house, and especially my basement, were the subject of surveillance. In fact, at an earlier time, I had already observed two Greenfield detectives (one male, one female) parked up the street in a white Chevy Lumina. They subsequently drove by my house. I stared at them as they passed the front yard in which I was working.
Fact: I have been recently asked - by a MA PI who has a great deal of inside knowledge about Maura's disappearance - whether or not I killed her.
Fact: Someone calling himself Det. Columbo has emailed me three times, dangling some kind of bait in front of me.
Fact: I have been told by someone closely associated with the private Molly Bish investigation that she will go through the garbage I leave out in her search for clues.
On and on it goes. Clearly, there is some interest - official and/or private - in me as a suspect in the disappearance of Maura Murray and possibly Molly Bish. If I'm not paranoid by now, maybe I should give it a try. It would at least offer the comfort of being delusional.

I don’t remember anyone accusing you of producing child poem. Did you?
Out of all the people that have posted on these MM forums what makes you so special that LE, PI,s and others are going thru your garbage, accusing you of thing s and other such nonsense.
If you are innocent then write a complaint against the guilty parties. Why complain about it here?
Just curious.

Wowzer the real one wrote:

<quoted text> I don’t remember anyone accusing you of producing child poem. Did you?
Out of all the people that have posted on these MM forums what makes you so special that LE, PI,s and others are going thru your garbage, accusing you of thing s and other such nonsense.
If you are innocent then write a complaint against the guilty parties. Why complain about it here?
Just curious.

Wowzer ~ i do recall that 'charge' made against Beagle by EWB.
presumably, his following the MM forums from early on, and originating from Amherst/ the western part of MA has made him an interesting target to posters of anonymous identity and those self-identified a having some familial relationship to MM.
the richness of fantasy surrounding MM's disappearance is not unique to any one poster.
in addition, others here have complained about having their property damaged.
as i said, it's beyond strange.

Snowy wrote:

<quoted text>
Wowzer ~ i do recall that 'charge' made against Beagle by EWB.
presumably, his following the MM forums from early on, and originating from Amherst/ the western part of MA has made him an interesting target to posters of anonymous identity and those self-identified a having some familial relationship to MM.
the richness of fantasy surrounding MM's odisappearance is not unique to any one poster.
in addition, others here have complained about having their property damaged.
as i said, it's beyond strange.

Thank you snowy. I must have. Missed that post frrom EWB. I do remember other complaints of property damage by others in the past although I found the stories hard to believe.
I still find it hard to believe that LE , PI,s and other authorities would spend valuable time doing what Beagle said they did.They just don't do that unless there's a very good reason with sufficient evidence that a crime may have been committed by the person. Makes absolutely no sense to me but that's just mho.

Wowzer the real one wrote:

<quoted text>
I still find it hard to believe that LE , PI,s and other authorities would spend valuable time doing what Beagle said they did.They just don't do that unless there's a very good reason with sufficient evidence that a crime may have been committed by the person. Makes absolutely no sense to me but that's just mho.

agree. you've been here longer than i...and your opinions are as good as mine....so, trust we will.

Wowzer the real one wrote:

<quoted text> I don’t remember anyone accusing you of producing child poem. Did you?
Out of all the people that have posted on these MM forums what makes you so special that LE, PI,s and others are going thru your garbage, accusing you of thing s and other such nonsense.
If you are innocent then write a complaint against the guilty parties. Why complain about it here?
Just curious.

Wowzer the real one wrote:

<quoted text> I don’t remember anyone accusing you of producing child poem. Did you?
Just curious.

Just curious?
Regardng child porn: No! Flat out no. Unequivically no. Zero. Zip. Nada. Never. Not ever. I have never ever had anything whatever to do with child porn, child sex abuse, molestation, etc., etc. Is that a clear answer? I don't know where this child porn suggestion came from, but I don't think it dropped out of thin air. The best guess I can make is that it was planted with police who, in their eternal ingorance and over-eager enthusiasm, ran with it. I have no idea how anything as ugly as this ever came about, but it did, straight out of the mouth of Sgt. Dan McCarthy. Maybe just to scare me. Maybe it was something Greenfield MA Det. Laura Gordon, formerly of the UMass PD, came up with. I have some ideas, but nothing firm.

It reminds me of the time I was talking to a local firefighter about a certain truck accessory and where did I get mine. I said at dealer X. He said that's good because dealer Y, located right next to dealer X, is, according to a Greenfield MA police sergeant friend of his, the Connecticut River serial killer. Really??? To think I had actually priced out the truck accessory with him in person. The CT River serial killer right in front of me! On Bernardston Rd. Wow! I had never heard such a thing, but over the next year or so, every time the truck accessory came up, all the locals told me to avoid dealer Y. Even rumors that should remain totally confidential are leaked by moron local police and become "truth" all over town for years and years. How do you think this local businessman feels, assuming he knows about it?
Your "so special" is childish taunting. I'm not special and never have pretended to be so - at least not in any privileged sense. Which is kind of the point. This is not - NOT, NOT, NOT - about me, as in specifically about me. I'm simply the otherwise average, anonymous person in western MA who has had all this Maura Murray cotton candy stuck to him and is trying to say something online - outloud - after having fruitlessly approached police.(You could say that I don't automatically regard all police as my best friends these days.) Seems to paranoid little old me that going to a Maura Murray forum makes sense. Maybe it's a mistake, but it's at least a legitimate effort to contact other people I would not otherwise even know existed or had an interst in Maura's disappearace. Why should I keep quiet about all this? It's public. It maintains a public record. It seems way more sensible than going to the Salt Lake City model airplane club forum or the NYC politics forum. You think?

Wowzer the real one wrote:

<quoted text> I don’t remember anyone accusing you of producing child poem. Did you?
Out of all the people that have posted on these MM forums what makes you so special that LE, PI,s and others are going thru your garbage, accusing you of thing s and other such nonsense.
If you are innocent then write a complaint against the guilty parties. Why complain about it here?
Just curious.

Answer, Part 2.

There are two issues here: one, whether I'm making this up, and, two, if it's all true, what it means. There is no way I can convince people I don't know and who claim the clairvoyant power to see vast distances into police file cabinets and who claim to have watched a bench outside the Hadley Target on a specific date and time and seen no one sit and talk, etc. etc., that what I've said is totally true and accurate, and that it's not delusional or even embellished.

If you get your kicks out of attacking the simple truth, then there's nothing I can do about your absurd predilection. It reminds me of my great-grandfather, a Cape Cod sea-captain (of course, you think, I'm making this up, too) who used a telescope to watch the construction of trans-Atlantic communications towers. He said, just as self-assuredly and self-righteously, that people would not be able to use a huge contraption like that to speak to people in Europe. After all, he had sailed across the open ocean and knew that the only way to talk to someone in Europe was to travel there first. There's nothing I can say to people like you. Either you think maybe it's true or you love shooting down helpful information and discrediting the poster rather than talking about something in a constructive way. Your choice.

The other part is - if what I say is true and acccurate - what all this means. Forget that it has me upset enough to seek out a thread like this, the only one I know about, it's just as puzzling to me as it would be to anyone else. It seems to make little sense. The main thing I'm trying to get across is that there is someone - doesn't matter whether it's me or John Doe - in western MA who has been getting some pretty hard-to-explain and very unwanted attention. This attention might help shine a light on what happened to Maura. And maybe not, but it's not totally weird that the person experiencing this would seek out a forum and speak out about it. It's not an easy thing to do.

It's like going from the old ducks to the new ducks.

I don't want to get into an argument about whether or not I'm telling the truth. I know what I know. Almost all of it can be documented and corroborated. I'm just trying to help, to say that the emphasis is not exclusively on NH. That's all. Maybe the person who is causing all this trouble for me had something to do with Maura's disappearance. Maybe not, but it seems worth putting out there. I happen to think in this case the more daylight, the better. Going through a complaint process is endless, expensive, and usually results in nothing. How could I ever find and - do what, sue?- EWB? Nothing would get accomplished.

Keep your hands off our ovaries

http://handsoffourovaries.com/manifesto.htm

It would be interesting to know whether Maura spent much time at the Amherst apartment building, located very near her dorm, that was later rented by Maura's relatives with Helena's assistance. Found this out by accident, not by snooping around.

These apartment buildings on streets almost next to SW (dorm complex) are small, located in a more or less residential area immediately off campus, and are rented almost exclusively to students. It's often a rowdy place.

None of these rentals ever has to advertise for tenants. It's all word-of-mouth. Typically, one year's tenants will bring along future tenants for the landlord.

If Maura was at that building, then there's at least a reasonable chance she was seen by a guy who worked for the landlord. The landlord's employee, Mr. K, once, a few years ago, walked from Turners Falls to a strip joint in Whately (Club Castaway), a distance of about 10-12 miles, on a freezing cold winter day, just to drink and watch young women strip. He also did drawings of covered bridges from various places in New England, including New Hampshire, so he may have known the Woodsville area.

I should think someone would ask him if he killed Maura before asking me if I killed her. I mean, how many people, exactly, have been asked by either LE or a PI whether or not they killed her? Can't be many. Makes you freak out to think you might be the only one. How else can an average person combat something like this beside making it public? Police are not interested. I have no money to hire a lawyer. The only thing I can do is try to find other possibilities. Maybe that's what makes the guilty breath down my neck. Maybe the PI was trying to scare me to keep me quiet. He did suggest I shut up. Who is paying him to talk to me like that? He's real expensive and is not being paid by anyone in Maura's family and is not working for free. So it's got to be someone with money.

But why ask me if I killed her when they could be looking at a real strange down-and-out drunk who's nearly obsessed with naked women and was a body builder and who was possibly in the same building in Amherst with Maura? Doesn't considering someone like him make more sense? Or is keeping me quiet more important?

It's just one theory. It goes beyond the one that says she crashed her car alone and walked into the woods to avoid an OUI charge and died, which isn't a bad theory, but it doesn't go any further than what has so far proved useless.

WTH-the-original wrote:

What I find more interesting is the blog http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/2011/07/exclu... is saying that Fred didn't have an interview with detectives until 2.5 years after Maura disappeared and then with two lawyers present. He also claims that Fred, family and close friends are circling the wagons again, none of them will speak with him about any facet of the case. Not surprising.
Bill

Which detectives? Who requested the meeting?

“It’s important for people to understand … that we don’t know as much as we should
about what these risks are,” says Cho. Eggan of the Harvard Stem Cell Institute.“If a woman has
a cardiac arrest while giving eggs for stem-cell research, it won’t go down too well,” adds John
Buster, professor of obstetrics and gynecology at Baylor College of Medicine in Houston, Texas.

ABOVE FROM: http://www.lahealthprofs4life.org/MainPages/C...

No, I don't think it would go down to well at all. Considering the high-level, local, unmet need for eggs, it's not totally crazy to think that someone might have tried to meet that unmet need for eggs - illegally. Or with such bad consequences that a crime occurred. Maybe a donor died accidentally, the death was considered too damaging for PR, so the body was disposed of and the death made to look like a disappearance. Not totally out of the question. Especially when you consider that the number of eggs required did not yield the success that was announced. Where did those other eggs come from?

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I'm not sure whether Maura would have met the height requirement, but you get the idea.

$80,000.

Maura more than likely took her own life. the evidence supports that theory way more than some boogeyman getting a hold of her.

If, as has already been established as fact, the eggs don't come to the Embryonic Stem Cell Research (ESCR) lab, then someone's going to go looking for the eggs. Simple result of the law of supply and demand. Mainstream experts on the subject agree on the severe lack of eggs.

Just for the record, while I don't know what happened to Maura, the theory that she left her vehicle to avoid an OUI charge is an entirely reasonable one, perhaps the most likely one. She may then, intentionally or accidentally, have perished in the woods. Or someone may have given her a ride to a motel, or a hundred other possibilities. But simply because you try out other theories doesn't mean you reject the most likely or the most conventional one. Holding fast to ONLY the most likely or conventional theories just leaves her in the woods and lets a potentially unsolved crime go unaddressed. I'm for including other reasonable possibilities, but it shouldn't be limited to just one or two of the most likely. It's been too long and the NH state police are not going to give Maura's disappearance much attention unless they can be persuaded to look at it in a new light.

ABSENT any conventional solution - it's been over seven years now - then a 21st century possibility must be included. Egg harvesting is real. It's not a precise science or medical practice. There is little to no regulation. Sometimes donors die or experience serious, life-long health deficits as a result.

There are lots of reasons that Maura may have disappeared, but if police don't already have a very convincing case, then they need to spread their net wider and stop discounting certain people - who had the means, motive, and opportunity - just because they have Ph.D. or M.D. after their names and wear white lab coats, or are venture capitalists. It's an insult to justice to look only at the psycho, the homeless, the retarded, the poor, the hillbilly, etc. In short, focusing solely on what eugenicists call the "unfit" is reactionary and archaic.

Molly Bish, Maura Murray, and Lindsay Ferguson all had their athletic profiles online, available through regional sports sites. All were very attractive and smart. They fit the profile of high-end egg donors. The age of their eggs gave them a biological advantage not available to women over 25 or 30 years old.

The Ferguson (Saratoga Springs NY) case merits further investigation. To this day, police have had little case and no established motive.