Maura Murray

BillNH wrote:

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You may be just offering some things for discussion but you clearly have not done much reading on this case or are trying to act as if you haven't. But then you claim only 2 people would know if there was a rag in the truck and that you have talked to one of them.
Something smells here.

I had similar thoughts. Don't know if this is just someone playing around or what. From the beginning there seemed to be a lack of what I would consider to be just basic knowledge. If it stays like this, I'll probably stop playing.

Bill

WTH-the-original wrote:

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The supposed statement by Fred makes no sense. He is not a stupid man which makes me wonder if he actually said that. And the rag couldn't have been pushed far in because it was discovered by the police officer. If it wasn't far in, then in my mind it had to be placed at the scene AFTER the car accident otherwise it would have certainly been blown out. Again, we are at the point were most of what we know, doesn't make a lot of sense or point in any specific direction. And there is far more we don't know than we do.
Bill

I think the fact that Fred has been silent about the rag in the tailpipe shows that he made the statement or something like it, or he believes it was a suicide attempt. I cannot understand Fred's silence about it any other way.

BillNH wrote:

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I should also add that Fred may have recognized the rag in the tailpipe as a possible suicide attempt which would explain his dismissive comment to the tow truck driver(if he said it), in an attempt to keep the search for a 'local dirtbag' alive. His silence about it would indicate that the very suspicious rag placed by bad advice or as an attempted suicide, is much more believable to him than it being placed there by someone intending to do MM harm. Again the rag in the tailpipe could be easily seen as act of sabotage, lending itself very nicely to Fred's dirtbag theory so why the silence from him?

Great points. They certainly explain freds view of it. I always thought that MM put the rag in the tailpipe to avoid police detection from the smoke while drinking and driving, but even that seems farfetched.

AppointedNH wrote:

Again, does that Saturn have interior lights when the trunk is open? I know if theres a license plate light on the outside of the trunk it would be up in the air getting attention . Is there any report that states the running lights or headlamps of the Saturn were on? If you wanted to hide a wine soaked rag wouldn't you hide it in a unsearchable area? The interior, trunk, glovebox would be certainly searched. But then the coke bottle with wine was left. Is that the only alcohol in the car aside from stains?The vehicle was dead, so it would be towed. Only two people knew of the rags in the trunk before the incident, one I spoke with personally and one is definitely missing. I'm not leading into anything, just creating discussion.

Why would anyone bother to hide a wine soaked rag in a tail pipe when there's a huge open container, a box of Franzia wine, plainly visible in the back seat?

Pointless Endeavor wrote:

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Why would anyone bother to hide a wine soaked rag in a tail pipe when there's a huge open container, a box of Franzia wine, plainly visible in the back seat?

thank you for not indulging further "creating" around the RIT. enough! a pointless endeavor.

BillNH wrote:

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The one thing that is certain about the rag in the tailpipe is that it was intentional. It did not fall into the tailpipe accidentally and it wasn't misplaced there since it was shoved in rather far. Beyond that, whether it was placed there for nefarious reasons, self harm, or simply for misguided reasons is unknown. Washing the face of wine with the rag is not unreasonable although snow, sleeve or one of the articles of clothing in the car would be much easier. It still does not explain stuffing it into the tailpipe when done. That seems a bit of a stretch when there is a big open trunk between her face and the tailpipe.

It certainly would have made sense for her to use the rag to clean wine off her face/clothes. However, the rag was said to have been clean when found.

BillNH wrote:

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I think the fact that Fred has been silent about the rag in the tailpipe shows that he made the statement or something like it, or he believes it was a suicide attempt. I cannot understand Fred's silence about it any other way.

For those who disagree and throwing peanuts....give me one reasonable explanation why Fred has never mentioned the rag in the tailpipe...

BillNH wrote:

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For those who disagree and throwing peanuts....give me one reasonable explanation why Fred has never mentioned the rag in the tailpipe...

Bill, those are likely the two idiots. Likely NY and CA. They won't write, they have no skills, nothing intelligent to contribute. Reasonable is not their strong suit. Ones sole contributions is in providing YouTube videos that no one looks at, and of course both excel in throwing peanuts and spamming the forums.

The other "Bill"

Pointless Endeavor wrote:

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Why would anyone bother to hide a wine soaked rag in a tail pipe when there's a huge open container, a box of Franzia wine, plainly visible in the back seat?

Exactly my original point.

WTH-the-original wrote:

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I had similar thoughts. Don't know if this is just someone playing around or what. From the beginning there seemed to be a lack of what I would consider to be just basic knowledge. If it stays like this, I'll probably stop playing.
Bill

It's ironic you speak of playing. I'm definitely not playing. I don't have the MM cliff notes in front of my computer here, sorry. Trying to make some sense of the rag and the neigh-sayers on the forum. I'm from, and in NH by the way. I visit the area often, not a walmart sleepover or tourist attraction type. I hike in the white mountain forest often. Message me if you want to know more Bill.

BillNH wrote:

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You may be just offering some things for discussion but you clearly have not done much reading on this case or are trying to act as if you haven't. But then you claim only 2 people would know if there was a rag in the truck and that you have talked to one of them.
Something smells here.

The only thing smelling is the stale air in this forum. I've spoken to FM about it directly with no media around.

mention of blood before defaulting to wine has never been a part of the conversation. it's hard to make a case for "blood".

AppointedNH wrote:

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It's ironic you speak of playing. I'm definitely not playing. I don't have the MM cliff notes in front of my computer here, sorry. Trying to make some sense of the rag and the neigh-sayers on the forum. I'm from, and in NH by the way. I visit the area often, not a walmart sleepover or tourist attraction type. I hike in the white mountain forest often. Message me if you want to know more Bill.

I dont understand the level of hostility here. Not one should be put down for lack of knowing something or for bringing up issues that some feel are " old " . On the contrary!! Is nice when someone puts the subject back where it really belongs. Back to the strange dissppearance of Maura....

Booneplantation wrote:

<quoted text> I dont understand the level of hostility here. Not one should be put down for lack of knowing something or for bringing up issues that some feel are " old " . On the contrary!! Is nice when someone puts the subject back where it really belongs. Back to the strange dissppearance of Maura....

Boone, there is no hostility. I have no issue with anyone raising a question if they are uninformed. Bill and I offered up opinions very nicely even though we disagreed with the opinion. But when a person who acts uninformed then states that they have actually spoken to Fred Murray about the very subject he is acting uninformed about, that's a bit fishy and I said so. It definitely appears that the supposedly uninformed is very informed. It makes me believe they have another agenda and are being deceitful. And of course as soon as it's pointed out, in a very non-confrontational way I must add, they insult the forum. I think I made a good call.

Goobie wrote:

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Ignore Ridiculous. She isn't capable of being polite and gas a compulsoon for being rude. A few people here think its just dandy or funny. She also thinks she is endowed with the right to tell people how to behave...complaining like a victim after one responds to her rudeness.
Car was stopped so gas fumes would be gone, brainiak.(Ridiculous)
Not many good explanations for the rag have been provided...yours is as good as any. But like the others have said...no clue goes anywhere...and all that is clear is that this subject only results in pointless disputes between people or flimsy accusations.

Dumbass,

I think you should post a youtube video to further make your point. I never complain like a victim. I either acknowledge that I'm incorrect or meet any challenge thrown my way. I don't live in my Moms cellar and take public transportation when I go to my weekly shrink appointments like you do. I live in the real world, up here in NH and I drive vehicles daily. Melting snow in a rag on an exhaust pipe? Crawling through the snow to get underneath a cars dirty undercarriage to get clean?! I will say I've made grilled cheese sandwiches on my exhaust manifold, but as WTH stated, and as any yankee that has ever spent an hour out doors in the winter knows, a brisk rubbing of snow against your face hands etc. does a decent job when no facilities are present for cleaning. Yes it's a little chilly but, that's how we roll.
It's unfortunate that you are so challenged by my masculinity that you use language intended to emasculate. Why not just acknowledge that you are a bit of a panty waste and find the strength that lies in self acceptance?

since we're talking about the rag in the tailpipe again, this is where i'm at on the topic until some new info comes along to challenge my theory.

maura had some kind of open container in one hand when she lost control of her vehicle at the weathered barn curve. the contents of the container – likely the same plastic soda bottle sgt. smith found that night partially emptied in the snow and thrown under the abandoned saturn – probably spilled out on her hand, or hands, and maybe on her coat or face. also inside the vehicle was the box of what wine remained from her dorm party a couple nights previous. maybe this was also the source of alcohol that was mixed in the soda bottle. but it likely wasn't a full new box because, though it opened and spilled in the car, there has never been any indication from reports or photos that the stains were substantial.

after the accident and after mr. atwood leaves maura to return home, she hurries to the trunk where a witness recalls seeing a flurry of activity. if maura has a mixture of soda and wine (or some other kind of alcohol) on her hands and/or elsewhere, she grabs a handful of snow to "wash" it off and grabs the rag to dry her hands. while she's crouched down at the back of the vehicle using snow to clean her hands, she throws the bottle under the car, perhaps in an effort to hide it, and she shoves the rag in the tailpipe in an effort to hide it in case it has any alcoholic residue or smell to it. why would she go to this trouble if the box of wine in the car had spilled during the accident? it was dark and she may not have had the time to notice the wine had burst open and spilled since mr. atwood happened upon her not long after the accident. depending on how intoxicated she might have been, she may have forgotten about the box entirely, or till much later anyway.

as others have debated, and though fred explained why the rag might be in the tailpipe, it is unlikely – based on several anecdotal stories – that the rag could have remained in the tailpipe for any length of time if was put there earlier at some other location. given all the other activity around the vehicle, i also don't buy that it was a rushed and failed attempt at suicide by trying to block the vehicle emissions from exhausting.

along with the emptied and discarded bottle, i find the rag to be an attempt by maura to clean herself up and dissassociate herself from the contents of the bottle by trying to hide the rag in the tailpipe. and then, she departs from the vehicle to further dissassociate herself from the scene.

40,000! Woot!

whatif wrote:

since we're talking about the rag in the tailpipe again, this is where i'm at on the topic until some new info comes along to challenge my theory.
maura had some kind of open container in one hand when she lost control of her vehicle at the weathered barn curve. the contents of the container – likely the same plastic soda bottle sgt. smith found that night partially emptied in the snow and thrown under the abandoned saturn – probably spilled out on her hand, or hands, and maybe on her coat or face. also inside the vehicle was the box of what wine remained from her dorm party a couple nights previous. maybe this was also the source of alcohol that was mixed in the soda bottle. but it likely wasn't a full new box because, though it opened and spilled in the car, there has never been any indication from reports or photos that the stains were substantial.
after the accident and after mr. atwood leaves maura to return home, she hurries to the trunk where a witness recalls seeing a flurry of activity. if maura has a mixture of soda and wine (or some other kind of alcohol) on her hands and/or elsewhere, she grabs a handful of snow to "wash" it off and grabs the rag to dry her hands. while she's crouched down at the back of the vehicle using snow to clean her hands, she throws the bottle under the car, perhaps in an effort to hide it, and she shoves the rag in the tailpipe in an effort to hide it in case it has any alcoholic residue or smell to it. why would she go to this trouble if the box of wine in the car had spilled during the accident? it was dark and she may not have had the time to notice the wine had burst open and spilled since mr. atwood happened upon her not long after the accident. depending on how intoxicated she might have been, she may have forgotten about the box entirely, or till much later anyway.
as others have debated, and though fred explained why the rag might be in the tailpipe, it is unlikely – based on several anecdotal stories – that the rag could have remained in the tailpipe for any length of time if was put there earlier at some other location. given all the other activity around the vehicle, i also don't buy that it was a rushed and failed attempt at suicide by trying to block the vehicle emissions from exhausting.
along with the emptied and discarded bottle, i find the rag to be an attempt by maura to clean herself up and dissassociate herself from the contents of the bottle by trying to hide the rag in the tailpipe. and then, she departs from the vehicle to further dissassociate herself from the scene.

Interesting theory but then why would Fred explain it away? If he wasn't 100% sure that the rag played no part in her disappearance why would he explain it? I like your theory and I do believe there's a possible answer here.

James Renner wrote:

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Interesting theory but then why would Fred explain it away? If he wasn't 100% sure that the rag played no part in her disappearance why would he explain it? I like your theory and I do believe there's a possible answer here.

Fred's initial dismissal and then his silence about the rag, IMO, is the real story surrounding the rag in the tailpipe. I just cannot reconcile Fred's 'dirtbag' theory with his silence about the rag.

whatif wrote:

...
along with the emptied and discarded bottle, i find the rag to be an attempt by maura to clean herself up and dissassociate herself from the contents of the bottle by trying to hide the rag in the tailpipe. and then, she departs from the vehicle to further dissassociate herself from the scene.

I'm going to disagree with this statement using only the debatable and unverifiable information that the rag was "clean" when it was removed from the tail pipe. How can a rag be "clean" when removed from inside of a tail pipe that was most likely covered in carbon from a poorly operating engine? I have no further opinion on this subject until more substantial information is available.