Maura Murray

Bravo Beagle aka "Clay soup"

Claysoup

Greenfield, MA

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#376
May 23, 2008

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Anonymous,

You’re not the first person to make this mistake. The MMM board and its corresponding contributors on this (Topix) board will crucify anyone who so much as hints that Maura Murray may have been suicidal, depressed, or even in a bad mood. They vigorously maintain the exclusive theme that Maura was abducted and murdered in or near the Woodsville/Haverhill area despite an absence of truly corroborating evidence.

They are hostile to the notion that the days prior to Maura’s disappearance could possibly be relevant or helpful in investigating her disappearance. For the past four years, they have stared ceaselessly at the same few “facts,” which they assume will sooner or later knit themselves into a successfully prosecuted court case. They spend so much time angrily rejecting even the most well reasoned, generously offered alternative that one must wonder exactly what their real purpose is.

Whether the MMM board has a hundred contributors or only one, the result is the same: a single militant voice and a single militant approach that has produced nothing. At times their tone becomes so belligerent, it’s surprising anyone on the entire planet would go near them, let alone someone with valuable information. Their sneering, bullying, suburban South Shore arrogance has done nothing except alienate the people whose help they need most. They have wrongly vilified the entire Woodsville and Haverhill area in search of a killer, the existence of which they cannot even convincingly demonstrate.

Their original intentions may have been admirable and their frustration understandable, but the good will is gone. They have poisoned themselves from within to the extent that they now resemble no one as much as the very person they wish to hang. They convey the impression that, given the opportunity, they would gladly string up anyone they can lay their hands on, even an innocent person trying to assist them, which explains why genuine help is so scarce.

Everyone hopes that, if Maura Murray was in fact murdered, her killer is prosecuted and convicted for the crime.

If, however, an investigation by her family and friends becomes one of blind rage, then justice, which must always transcend the instinct for revenge, is not served, and the true value of Maura Murray’s vibrant life becomes insulted and diminished by the people who say they love her most.

Those who seek resolution and closure might still discover the value of approaching the people of New Hampshire and Vermont with a never-wavering humility and respect. Instead of demanding answers and pointing fingers, they might find it is not too late to build an enduring bridge of genuine friendship and trust to all segments of those communities, a bridge across which the truth might walk, bearing itself as its own gift to equal justice under the rule of law, a concept that brings out the best in all of us, not the worst.

Though Beagle was most likely talking about the MM forum he was also frustrated by the same happenings on Topix as he told us many times.

Also_ Beagle posted his real name and addy on the Sam Archives 3-4 times cause he wanted all to know. So what was all the excitement about me saying that Beagle worked at Walmart? Beagle also put that on his blog and took pride about be see through. Drama ??? Yep total BS Cause even Beagle didn't care and those that jumped on me already knew that beagle put everything on the the internet cause he had nothing to hide and he said so himself.

I've been gone for a while, but I got bored and decided to check back in. My last post frm 8 months got all kinds of kudos, awesome. Not much has changed I see. Frankly, it was the blog that was bothering me more than anything.

Either security or a nurse said it was virtually impossible for Maura to have left the facility and hit someone with her car. How is that not enough to drop the Vasi thing? It isn't only completely outlandish when you say it out loud, someone who WAS THERE said there's a very, very minute chance she was able to leave and come back without being at least detected. Are you just NOT believing your sources now? Should make for a good book.

At least James checked into a few things I sent him months ago. Sorry about the Richard Thousand thing, but I think both of his emails were BS. But when I originally sent it to James, I said I know this guy wasn't involved in her disappearance, but he might know something about something.

I'm checking out some other things tonight. Some digital footprints are hard to erase, and I find it pretty odd that other connections haven't been made in what has been turned up so far.

As for Maura running off to Canada with a mystery man (also, she isn't the Maura Murray in Toronto - that is very easy to see): if that was the case, there's about a 1% of ever finding out. I also hope it isn't publicly stated if that's the case. She has a right to privacy, especially if she fears for her life.

Tyler from Pittsburgh wrote:

<quoted text>
Hello Brilliant Brian,
How was it "virtually impossible" that Maura left Melville, drove 1.3 miles to the corner of Mattoon and hit Petrit Vasi with her vehicle? Can you elaborate? Seems like it would have been pretty easy to do in my opinion.

http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/2013/04/more-...

Tyler from Pittsburgh wrote:

<quoted text>
"First of all, the parking lot takes about five minutes to get to your car, and by the time you drove to Amherst Center, had the hit and run, drive back and walk back to the dorm for your shift...she would have gotten caught leaving her post."
It takes five minutes to get to the parking lot? I guess if she was parked halfway across campus, but if she was parked in any of the five or six lots around Melville, it would have taken Maura maybe a minute tops to get to her car.
Who would she have been caught by, exactly? Students? They aren't going to care if she's missing.
"Her stuff was sprawled on the desk...nursing book, cell phone, and I don't see her sneaking away, and then taking her book out again."
So she left her book at the desk to resume studying when she returned. What's the big deal? It's not like just because the cell phone was sitting on the desk when KM walked in meant it was there the whole time. Cell phones are pretty portable, you know.
"The supervisors are always rotating around Southwest to check up on the receptionists. Thus the odds of her being able to go get the car, do the drive, get back to the dorm...nope, don't see it happening. As I tell my first graders when learning about probability....very highly unlikely."
Sorry, but I just don't buy people were checking in on her at all times. These supervisors probably followed the same pattern every night. If Maura knew it, she was good to go.
Who exactly is going to "detect" her driving back onto campus? She's just another car rolling through at night.
Whether it happened or not is definitely a matter of opinion, but I have no idea how anyone could totally rule out her hitting Vasi as a possibility. It just isn't that far fetched. This is a college dorm we're talking about. Not Fort Knox. They didn't have eyes constantly on the girl.
And what else would have put her in a "catatonic state?" She already knew Rausch was cheating, that's about the worst thing a boyfriend can do. I don't see anything with Kathleen that would have caused her such distress... Vasi was struck shortly before Maura was "staring off into space."
The timing is there, the opportunity is there (in my opinion) and the result is there. I still think there is a strong possibility Vasi is in play.
I respect opinions to the contrary, but if KM is being honest about the state Maura was in when she came upon her, well I don't see many things that would cause such an extreme reaction. Hitting the kid with her car would have done so.

So you're willing to believe some of the hearsy, just not all of it? mmk. I believe the supervisor. She has really no reason to protect someone missing for 9 years. The story was far-fetched conspiracy drivel from the beginning. It doesn't have to be Fort Knox, but they probably have cameras, badges to scan, etc. If you want to believe it, do so. But James proved it wrong and then a month later puts stock in the Vasi thing. I hope the book isn't this contradictory - not that I'd get it anyway.

Brilliant Brian wrote:

<quoted text>
So you're willing to believe some of the hearsy, just not all of it? mmk. I believe the supervisor. She has really no reason to protect someone missing for 9 years. The story was far-fetched conspiracy drivel from the beginning. It doesn't have to be Fort Knox, but they probably have cameras, badges to scan, etc. If you want to believe it, do so. But James proved it wrong and then a month later puts stock in the Vasi thing. I hope the book isn't this contradictory - not that I'd get it anyway.

True that km has no reason to protect a missing person, but she would have some motivation to protect her job at the time. Seems more likely that she did not want her own supervisors to think the student employees are not well watched. Iirc km had said that other supervisor(s) were off that night which stretched them all thin and it took her 2 hours to get to MM after she heard there was a breakdown. So I'd say in this case the student employees were not well watched. Not saying I believe mm had anything to do with the vasi hit but your reasoning for discounting it seems a lot thinner to me than it does to you.

comprehension and interpretation of written materials without having the benefit of historical interactions in real time allow for some unfortunate conclusions.
add to this an ignorant, conspiratorial mindset and the result is exactly what i'd expect.

JWB wrote:

Bravo Beagle aka "Clay soup"
Claysoup
Greenfield, MA
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#376
May 23, 2008
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Anonymous,
You’re not the first person to make this mistake. The MMM board and its corresponding contributors on this (Topix) board will crucify anyone who so much as hints that Maura Murray may have been suicidal, depressed, or even in a bad mood. They vigorously maintain the exclusive theme that Maura was abducted and murdered in or near the Woodsville/Haverhill area despite an absence of truly corroborating evidence.
They are hostile to the notion that the days prior to Maura’s disappearance could possibly be relevant or helpful in investigating her disappearance. For the past four years, they have stared ceaselessly at the same few “facts,” which they assume will sooner or later knit themselves into a successfully prosecuted court case. They spend so much time angrily rejecting even the most well reasoned, generously offered alternative that one must wonder exactly what their real purpose is.
Whether the MMM board has a hundred contributors or only one, the result is the same: a single militant voice and a single militant approach that has produced nothing. At times their tone becomes so belligerent, it’s surprising anyone on the entire planet would go near them, let alone someone with valuable information. Their sneering, bullying, suburban South Shore arrogance has done nothing except alienate the people whose help they need most. They have wrongly vilified the entire Woodsville and Haverhill area in search of a killer, the existence of which they cannot even convincingly demonstrate.
Their original intentions may have been admirable and their frustration understandable, but the good will is gone. They have poisoned themselves from within to the extent that they now resemble no one as much as the very person they wish to hang. They convey the impression that, given the opportunity, they would gladly string up anyone they can lay their hands on, even an innocent person trying to assist them, which explains why genuine help is so scarce.
Everyone hopes that, if Maura Murray was in fact murdered, her killer is prosecuted and convicted for the crime.
If, however, an investigation by her family and friends becomes one of blind rage, then justice, which must always transcend the instinct for revenge, is not served, and the true value of Maura Murray’s vibrant life becomes insulted and diminished by the people who say they love her most.
Those who seek resolution and closure might still discover the value of approaching the people of New Hampshire and Vermont with a never-wavering humility and respect. Instead of demanding answers and pointing fingers, they might find it is not too late to build an enduring bridge of genuine friendship and trust to all segments of those communities, a bridge across which the truth might walk, bearing itself as its own gift to equal justice under the rule of law, a concept that brings out the best in all of us, not the worst.

This is how stupid you really are Granny! Re-read the post you moron. You are making a point for your opposition...Egad! Perhaps you should look up the word vilify...!

Tyler from Pittsburgh wrote:

<quoted text>
"First of all, the parking lot takes about five minutes to get to your car, and by the time you drove to Amherst Center, had the hit and run, drive back and walk back to the dorm for your shift...she would have gotten caught leaving her post."
It takes five minutes to get to the parking lot? I guess if she was parked halfway across campus, but if she was parked in any of the five or six lots around Melville, it would have taken Maura maybe a minute tops to get to her car.
Who would she have been caught by, exactly? Students? They aren't going to care if she's missing.
"Her stuff was sprawled on the desk...nursing book, cell phone, and I don't see her sneaking away, and then taking her book out again."
So she left her book at the desk to resume studying when she returned. What's the big deal? It's not like just because the cell phone was sitting on the desk when KM walked in meant it was there the whole time. Cell phones are pretty portable, you know.
"The supervisors are always rotating around Southwest to check up on the receptionists. Thus the odds of her being able to go get the car, do the drive, get back to the dorm...nope, don't see it happening. As I tell my first graders when learning about probability....very highly unlikely."
Sorry, but I just don't buy people were checking in on her at all times. These supervisors probably followed the same pattern every night. If Maura knew it, she was good to go.
Who exactly is going to "detect" her driving back onto campus? She's just another car rolling through at night.
Whether it happened or not is definitely a matter of opinion, but I have no idea how anyone could totally rule out her hitting Vasi as a possibility. It just isn't that far fetched. This is a college dorm we're talking about. Not Fort Knox. They didn't have eyes constantly on the girl.
And what else would have put her in a "catatonic state?" She already knew Rausch was cheating, that's about the worst thing a boyfriend can do. I don't see anything with Kathleen that would have caused her such distress... Vasi was struck shortly before Maura was "staring off into space."
The timing is there, the opportunity is there (in my opinion) and the result is there. I still think there is a strong possibility Vasi is in play.
I respect opinions to the contrary, but if KM is being honest about the state Maura was in when she came upon her, well I don't see many things that would cause such an extreme reaction. Hitting the kid with her car would have done so.

completely agree with all points made.

Ridiculous wrote:

<quoted text>This is how stupid you really are Granny! Re-read the post you moron. You are making a point for your opposition...Egad! Perhaps you should look up the word vilify...!

you know, i was going to say IDIOT, but i went all around the word to be polite. in a word....IDIOT.

Ridiculous wrote:

<quoted text>This is how stupid you really are Granny! Re-read the post you moron. You are making a point for your opposition...Egad! Perhaps you should look up the word vilify...!

Haha that wha I thought also but thought jab couldn't possibly make that egregious an error that I must have read it wrong. Glad to have some corroboration.

I have said over and over that all options are open for me. You want to pin me into the corner of only believing foul play. My point was just being able to talk about whatever point of view you have without being called an "Idiot" You all just made my point once again.

JWB wrote:

I have said over and over that all options are open for me. You want to pin me into the corner of only believing foul play. My point was just being able to talk about whatever point of view you have without being called an "Idiot" You all just made my point once again.

JWB wrote:

My instincts tell me that certain posters are here to deflect talk of Maura Murray. The defense gets ratcheted up to a higher level when one suggests foul play. The conspiracy theorist in me says that
they are trying to protect a family member or friend. Possibly this person was or is the person of interest that Mrs Smith alluded to.
Something really smells when a certain group shows no interest what so ever in what happened to Maura.

Quit trying to change your story to cover your blunder. You very clearly said that the foul play theory was what was being shut down, and not just this time, but every time. You have never argued that all points of view are shut down. And interestingly you always seem to throw this complaint about deflecting the conversation right in the middle of actual conversation about the case. If anything, it seems you are the one trying to deflect any and all conversation back to your pet theory of others shutting down conversation. Every time there is real discussion happening here you bring up the deflection theory. What family member are you trying to protect? This is very suspicious behavior.

I have always been willing and open to discussing (all) possibilities of what may have happened. The last conversation just so happened to be talking about the Grand Jury Subpenas and how they might mesh with whatever other info we have and try and connect some dots. If it goes to a dead end then so be it. This forum is to discuss and share theories,thoughts and facts and talk them through.

BillNH wrote:

<quoted text>
<quoted text>
Quit trying to change your story to cover your blunder. You very clearly said that the foul play theory was what was being shut down, and not just this time, but every time. You have never argued that all points of view are shut down. And interestingly you always seem to throw this complaint about deflecting the conversation right in the middle of actual conversation about the case. If anything, it seems you are the one trying to deflect any and all conversation back to your pet theory of others shutting down conversation. Every time there is real discussion happening here you bring up the deflection theory. What family member are you trying to protect? This is very suspicious behavior.

I didn't say that I didn't suggest foul play . I did suggest it and gave reasons why I felt that way. Foul play is my strongest feelings as to what happened followed by Run away. With that being said, I am open to all options.

When I made the comment about deflecting the conversation, I wasn't talking about changing the talk to suicide or any other theory. I am talking about people viciously attacking people in a personal way. Anyone that tries to bring some type of good conversation to the table gets slammed and it is just not me that gets slammed.

If I was trying to protect anyone then wouldn't my theory be suicide? I won't call you an idiot.

Also BillNH- yes all Maura conversation regarding Maura is shut down but, when foul play is ever mentioned things are ratcheted up a notch. Everyone comes out of the woodwork and pig piles.

All you have to do is read the posts and look what happens when the conversation turns to the subject of Maura.Everyone else has left the forum because of this.

JWB wrote:

Also BillNH- yes all Maura conversation regarding Maura is shut down but, when foul play is ever mentioned things are ratcheted up a notch. Everyone comes out of the woodwork and pig piles.
All you have to do is read the posts and look what happens when the conversation turns to the subject of Maura.Everyone else has left the forum because of this.

A lot of YOUR conversation about Maura is shut down. You seem to be the one frequently personally attacked. Perhaps your instincts are failing you and the attacks have more to do with you, who has a dubious history here, than it does with MM. Maybe the others that you feel comfortable speaking for actually moved on to places more amenable to their lines of thought. Places where they can say any wild azz thing they want based on zero fact or evidence and get stroked and patted on the back for it. Maybe they had better instincts. Mind you, I am not attacking you, I am just trying to open you to a different idea on this subject.

claysoup
Greenfield, MA

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#389
May 23, 2008

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It is correct that this (Topix) board is an unmoderated one, which means that it will probably not be a mirror image of the MMM board, despite the frequent efforts of several members of both boards to make it so. Such a desperate effort to suppress all but one view of Maura Murray’s disappearance only brings suspicion on itself. If these posters were truly dedicated to finding out what happened to Maura, they would welcome the variety of opinion so generously and honestly offered by the public, not acidly spurn it. If a school bus driver and construction worker can be accused of deliberately confusing the facts, then the same criticism can be leveled at the posters who suppress a broader search for the facts. These posters spend more time harassing and ridiculing those who recommend a more enlightened approach than they spend trying to actually solve this case. Their constant drumbeat of “sticking with the facts” is nothing more than a sham designed to conceal the truth by pretending to be looking for it – looking for it in a place where, in fact, it does not exist. The Murray family have been badly duped by the “assistance” of these people whose real intention is to cover up the true story of what happened to Maura Murray by browbeating everyone who disagrees with them. The last thing they want is for the real facts to emerge.

BillNH wrote:

<quoted text>
A lot of YOUR conversation about Maura is shut down. You seem to be the one frequently personally attacked. Perhaps your instincts are failing you and the attacks have more to do with you, who has a dubious history here, than it does with MM. Maybe the others that you feel comfortable speaking for actually moved on to places more amenable to their lines of thought. Places where they can say any wild azz thing they want based on zero fact or evidence and get stroked and patted on the back for it. Maybe they had better instincts. Mind you, I am not attacking you, I am just trying to open you to a different idea on this subject.

So- What about Findmaura,John Green,SamL , Tyler from Pitt,Jenkins and others that try to keep the conversation on Maura? I said it is not just me that is shut down.

When is the last time your friends even started a conversation about the topic of maura?It seems that John Green is more of the topic ( head hunt). I will say that you will actually
converse about the subject and my beef is not with you anyways.