Maura Murray

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Just me--paris wrote:

Oh, and hi Bill! I see there's hardly anybody here lately.

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Bumping for Maura wrote:

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Just me,
Having a very busy day right now, but hope to be back here later today.
Another thing:
I have seen various accounts regarding where exactly Maura's car ended up on Rte 112 after the acvident at the WB curve. Some people insist the car came to rest near the tree with the blie ribbon, while other sources claim that it was really much futher down 112 and much closer to the BHR intersection and the M-tte residence.
What is your opinion regarding this?

WTH-the-original wrote:

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Certainly didn't mean to imply that you guys shouldn't still chat. 8-) That is what the site is for.
Bill

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WTH-the-original wrote:

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To quite honest I think most people have realized what a dead horse this is. People do wait around I am sure. I know I do to see if that missing piece happens in.
I have to admit I lost interest in this quite a while ago. Still want to know what happened to Maura. I just doubt that anything that happens on this forum will help get that done.
Hi to you also.
Bill

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Just me--paris wrote:

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I just thought about this again and maybe that's from when Maura backed the car out of the "ditch" and back up onto the road. I think the M-tte's may have been the ones who said that.

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Just me--paris wrote:

The links to your pictures seem to be gone, Maruchan. Will you post them again please/ and thanks.

jusy me wrote:

<quoted text>... Wasn't there also a (possibly waist high pole), or rod there on the corner in 2004? If that was hidden behind all the snow that she "shaved off, i can blame that pole for the famous gash to the hood. JMOAS

Maruchan wrote:

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Thanks for letting me know - wonder why Topix removes on-topic posts with links yet lets all those hundreds of posts of only YouTube links stay? They also deleted the link to the original discussion of this topic, along with my post to Snowy - hope she read it. Then they also deleted the following thread, even though it had no links - strange, eh? I saved most of that post, except for the last part, here it is:
"So, over on Ledyard's blog, they are now discussing the front end damage on the Saturn and how it might have occurred. I am not contributing to their discussion, but it reminds me of something I have wanted to post about for a while.
As was discussed on this forum back in September of 2012, I firmly believe now, as I did then, that Maura's car struck one of the steel snow marker poles that are on the Westman's property. The discussion begins (for me) on September 26, 2012, page 1202, with post #24468 by Just Me (she misspelled her screen name as "jusyme") with this statement:
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The discussion of the poles continues on - I will repost my long post with links to pictures and stuff below this.
Strangely, in all that discussion, and right up until a couple of months ago, I completely forgot that I had actually hit one of those steel snow poles and smooshed my poor car back in the 1990s. I think I need to start taking gingko or something. Anyway, I was driving down a mountain road and took my eyes off the road while reaching for something on the passenger side. As I leaned to the right, apparently I turned the wheel enough that the car went off onto the right shoulder and right into a snow pole. I was probably doing 35 or 40 mph when I hit it and it impacted the left side of the car. I recall bouncing a bit and the left back end of the car swerved out to the side. I wasn't hurt, and the car didn't have air bags, so, rather shakily, I drove to a turnout to inspect the damage.
The damage to my car looks very similar to Maura's car, especially the imprint from the pole. Those old steel poles are not flexible and do not bend. The pole I hit looks EXACTLY like the poles on the Westman's property. There is NO DAMAGE to my bumper - I believe it bounced back, and I believe Maura's bumper bounced back as well. I didn't take any pictures, but did take video and have taken a picture of ..."
Didn't save the rest, and it isn't cached on Google, so I basically said that I took video off my television screen and posted stills from that - they aren't very good but show the damage pretty well. I want to add that it isn't very clear in my pics, but that sharp edge of the steel pole is shown clearly in my video, and it is very similar to the sharp edge on Maura's hood.
I'm not going to try posting links again, so you will have to input all this, with no spaces:
http:// www .anonmgur .com /up /9aa63da8f27ec04f47beba66ce7ac 7ff.jpg
http:// www .anonmgur .com /up /9a1142aa0920a5f4d6e3422213162 e7e.jpg
http:// www .anonmgur .com /up /6fabe3d6ffc939fd99ce337093a67 916.jpg
http:// www .anonmgur .com /up /32d6c72968527a52260a0825f06b2 824.jpg
Hope that works.
The point of this exercise is to try to determine, as closely as is possible, exactly how Maura's accident really occurred, in order to keep the facts straight, and to dispel any notions that the damage to the Saturn happened prior to Maura's accident on 112. The Vasi theory is still alive and strong on multiple websites; pre-Haverhill accident damage rumors don't ever die; many people cannot believe the damage came from a tree, myself included; so that is why I believe this discussion is valid.

Just me-linda wrote:

<quoted text>Thanks. Could you put the old topix link up too? I only got to read that for the 10 minutes I had a week ago. Good information in there, I'd like to read it all.
More thoughts on the dent when I can collect myself,~bye for now

Maruchan wrote:

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I can't see your photo no matter how I plug it into Google, Orko, but here is a good photo of the weathered barn and three of the poles:[http://www.yankeefoliag e .com/cms/images/large/image_37 41.jpg] You can clearly see the little hill I think you are referring to in this photo. You can clearly see the posts, especially if you blow it up, and they appear to be steel.
Personally, I think that a combination of hitting the "hill," a two or three foot hard snowbank and one or more of those poles could have caused the damage to the Saturn.
In looking into those poles, I found that these are known as "delineator posts," and steel ones are being replaced in different parts of the country with "flexible delineator posts" because they bounce back after being hit by vehicles and are thought to last longer and cause less damage to vehicles. However, a report I read from several states said that they aren't feasible in areas with heavy snowfall.
"Three states cited multiple advantages in their use of FDPs instead of steel posts: FDPs are resilient to impact, not as damaging to vehicles (including motorcycles), and typically require less maintenance and provide a longer service life when placed in an area with frequent 'hits.' Three states also cited disadvantages in their use of FDPs: higher purchase cost as well as susceptibility to destruction by roadside mowers and plowed snow."
The posts in photos of the Westman's property look to me to be steel posts. Even if they have some give to them, a lot of that would be lost by those two or so feet of hard-packed snow around them - they would simply have nowhere to bend.
It was Dick Guy, one of the EMS crew, who said she clipped the curb on the northwest side of the street:
"'Everything about the scene of the accident was weird,' he says.'If she had just lost control of the car coming around that corner, she would have impacted the North side of the curve. She didn't. She clipped the corner. She sheered the snow bank clean off and continued on to the other side, where it turned the car around.'
Guy then drew a freehand map of what he saw that night, which is posted above, showing the sheered-off corner.
'To me, I'd say the car stalled and she was trying to regain control as she came to the turn.'"
There is a post-it note he drew on Renner's site showing the car's path: http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/2011/08/how-a...
This WMUR video says it was taken on 2-9-04, but of course it couldn't have been: http://www.youtube.com/watch... The reporter says: "Kathleen Murray has spent the last three days searching for her sister," so that would make it February 12 or 13. Since everything I've read says it didn't snow after she disappeared when they were searching, the photos of the snowbanks in the area should be pretty much the same as the night of her disappearance. You can see the height of the snowbank, but you cannot see the corner where Guy says the snow was sheared off. You can also see what looks like snow either removed or sheared off on the side of the Westman's house, but from Guy's drawing, I don't think that is the area he is referring to in his statements.
I think this information is important in getting the facts straight, and possibly disproving other theories, like Weeper's OPR theory.
And if nothing else, now we all know what those poles are and what they are called, which may help with the cryptic messages left by the haters.:)

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Sam Ledyard wrote:

Maruchan (and anyone else, in addition who might have something to add) in your opinion, how likely is it that Maura could have avoided the markers if Jame's theory is correct?
In other words, if she hit a snow bank in front of the Westman's house, would she most likely have bent/scraped or otherwise damaged one of the markers?

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BillNH wrote:

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The simple answer is obviously yes.
The markers are placed beyond where the snow plows would plow and allow for a shoulder to the roadway so they are a fair distance from the actual roadway, but I also think the plows use these markers as a guide when they are clearing the shoulder portion of the road.

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WTH-the-original wrote:

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Just an observation. If the plows us the markers as a visual guide. Which I believe they do. Doesn't that mean that the snow will be piled upon the marker? In other words how does the car get over the berm of snow to hit the marker if the plows only plow next to the markers?
Not to BillNH specifically. Anyone, please, feel free to jump in with that answer.
Bill

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Just me--paris wrote:

<quoted text>By shaving the "curb" of rounded, maybe packed, snow.
I went to JR site and saw the tv repairmans drawing. I draw. I study handwriting. What I see in his impression is that she began to vear right over to the "curb" ahead of time, like a magnet does. Maybe there was a light blinding her, or the car was acting up. Anyway, even at 35-40mph, if you bash into something hard enough to budge your way in, or through,--and you're stopped by it but still revving(ms), I could picture being spun around and sliding down into where the trees were.
Then she backed up. Maybe she wanted more privacy, too close to the W-Mans (who had lights on), and didn't dare to go on. Especially IF her lights were really askew.

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WTH-the-original wrote:

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I guess I'm not being clear. What I am asking is is it even possible for her to come in contact with one of those steel poles, since access to them would be through the banks of snow created by the snow plows.
I will get into how the damage they cause doesn't look like anything her car sustained including metal on metal contact if we decide that it was possible she hit one.
And as another aside. Can anyone explain why a police officer was explicit in his drawing as to what happened? And if we want another question, can anyone tell me how this affects the outcome. I can't see how this affects her motivation so why does it even matter?
Oh and yeah, whoever gave me a clueless icon. Your correct, I am clueless. I just mostly ask questions.
Bill

WTH-the-original wrote:

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I guess I'm not being clear. What I am asking is is it even possible for her to come in contact with one of those steel poles, since access to them would be through the banks of snow created by the snow plows.
I will get into how the damage they cause doesn't look like anything her car sustained including metal on metal contact if we decide that it was possible she hit one.
And as another aside. Can anyone explain why a police officer was explicit in his drawing as to what happened? And if we want another question, can anyone tell me how this affects the outcome. I can't see how this affects her motivation so why does it even matter?
Oh and yeah, whoever gave me a clueless icon. Your correct, I am clueless. I just mostly ask questions.
Bill