Maura Murray

Columbo has moved to Idaho.
Living off the grid.
Eating off the land.

I have suggested in the past that anyone try this. Bill, you are pretty sharp and seem to have a mind for inquiry so I will ask if you will try this.

Now people might or might not know so I will mention that hoods are non-bearing items and as such they are not really made to bear force. Especially from the front. Most hoods have a very small support structure that is primarily used to attach the hood to the hood struts that are used to open and close the hood and nothing more. The actual structural integrity for the hood is primarily based on the shape of the hood. Those curved hoods are not just aerodynamic they also have a lot to do with the structural integrity of the hood without adding any weight. So that curved surface that you see is what keeps the hood from flopping around as a flat piece of metal would. Its shape also makes it prone to failure in very specific ways. Now you (anyone) can model that failure with something as complex as finite element analysis program or something as simple as a piece of paper. Try the paper. Take a sheet of paper. Give it a little curl from left side to right side as Maura's car has. Then apply a point force to the front with your finger and see if that deformation reminds you of anything. Bearing in mind that the paper has no plastic limit to pass through so it will not maintain that shape after you let go.

Bill

WTH-the-original wrote:

<quoted text>
And if we want another question, can anyone tell me how this affects the outcome. I can't see how this affects her motivation so why does it even matter?

I said why up above:

Maruchan wrote:

<quoted text>
The point of this exercise is to try to determine, as closely as is possible, exactly how Maura's accident really occurred, in order to keep the facts straight, and to dispel any notions that the damage to the Saturn happened prior to Maura's accident on 112. The Vasi theory is still alive and strong on multiple websites; pre-Haverhill accident damage rumors don't ever die; many people cannot believe the damage came from a tree, myself included; so that is why I believe this discussion is valid.

For the question of whether the car could have reached the snow marker through a snowbank, in my opinion the answer is yes. Snow is not an unmoveable object, unlike a steel pole - even hardened snow and ice would be moved by the car. When you read winter driving tips, one of the solutions to stop a car in a skid is to drive into a snowbank:

"Negotiate icy hills carefully. When driving up hills, don’t
slow down or you will lose momentum. When driving down hills,
use low gear, not the brakes. If you lose control of your vehicle,
head into a snow bank."

"Avoid a crash: In an emergency situation you may need to steer your car off the road and into a ditch or snow bank. You may get stuck but you’ll avoid a crash."

Sam Ledyard wrote:

I archived the original Maruchan post before the links were deleted. Here it is: http://goo.gl/ejC5Fs .

Thanks for saving the page and posting the link, Sam.

Sam Ledyard wrote:

Maruchan (and anyone else, in addition who might have something to add) in your opinion, how likely is it that Maura could have avoided the markers if Jame's theory is correct?
In other words, if she hit a snow bank in front of the Westman's house, would she most likely have bent/scraped or otherwise damaged one of the markers?

Watch the "Maura Murray's Last Known Drive" video that I posted the link to in my September 27th post. At 6:19 minutes in, the snow markers come into view. They are within the snow bank and right next to the road. Watching this video, you can see how narrow the roadway is with the snow packed on either side and how "close" to the vehicle those markers really are. I think she could very easily have clipped that corner and hit one or more of those markers.

But Bill. Maruchans pics show the sharp metal indent. Skows where it came from. When I look at Maura's hood, and even back from the start, I disagreed that sometyhing struck HER. I thought SHE struck SOMETHING. Later, I asked Wowzer on a MMM forum if there was a rod there in 2004. I had been looking at some pictures and saw only ONE, and it was bent outward toward the street. She thought about it and did recall the "rod" which I can now call a metal safety pole. Those things are not just there for snow. They'reseen around in place to help protect anything moving fast from coming up onto an area wheren there might be kids, special trees, a walkway,~you name it. In Minnesnowta, we have alot of these. They're like a safety bar.
That picture in which I first saw that bent over "pole" was taken in 2004. These newer pictures are showing replacement poles. Well, that's if it's from the same spot. Makes sense to me. Say the W-Mans are playing in the yard with kids or pets. Sinse that turn, that "corner" is so easily missed, they can feel safer with these bars in place.
There's a house down our backroad that has 8-10 of these in a row. Reason was that 15 or so years ago, someone drove through the stopsign and right into the house.(killing one, injuring more)

I keep blabbing about it because of the idea that there may have been a first accident.
Whiston and others know about a fuse for a bulb or light, that was found inside the car by police. Yet Columbo and the other PI at one time said the accident happened closer to 7:00. That she slipped off the road, but left of her own accord. They did suggest she may have been replaced with a look alike, and that it was not MM that the bus driver saw.
The first BOLO was different than the first one based on BA discription of the girl.

I think it WAS Maura. But, her car may have been in worse shape than we knew. Not because of the Vasi hit, I have no idea there, but something else. The only thing that backs this up is that open pack of bulbs/fuses, and the condition of the headlights. They were askew. The radiator was pushed way back too. And I for one, doubt that by loosing contrll and slipping that fast and ahead to the far, far LEFT would turn her car enough to push that in. It appears to be HEAD-ON! She would have been slidding at an angle, i think?
UNLESS the accelleration and thud was her doing a nosedive. This idea might go something like this.
Getting to the hairpin turn, not quite time to start turning left. A pothole or something makes her car go "vroom, vroom" or pounce-driver side, or heck, maybe even dead center into the snowbank (and hidden beam)and continue to slide at enough angle to shave or keep shaving off the curb.

No time to spell check or write this any better. I hope it's ok.

After further reading, I have decided that the markers on the Westman's property are not snow markers, but are refective highway delineator posts, which were put there to show that a curve was coming up. Just wanted to make that correction.

Reflective - typo.

Maruchan wrote:

After further reading, I have decided that the markers on the Westman's property are not snow markers, but are refective highway delineator posts, which were put there to show that a curve was coming up. Just wanted to make that correction.

And just to clarify, I don't recall anyone stating that these markers were there strictly for snow. They are obviously marking the curve so someone does not cut the corner on purpose thinking that's how the road runs. But plow drivers use these as well to gauge the limits of the shoulder.

BillNH wrote:

<quoted text>
And just to clarify, I don't recall anyone stating that these markers were there strictly for snow. They are obviously marking the curve so someone does not cut the corner on purpose thinking that's how the road runs. But plow drivers use these as well to gauge the limits of the shoulder.

I was correcting myself. I have referred to them in most of my posts as being snow markers.

Here's a recent pic (the photographer wishes to remain anonymous) which clearly shows the markers.

It was taken in light of the discussion on this thread and on the blog.

http://notwithoutperil.files.wordpress.com/20... .

More pictures on the blog.

WTH-the-original wrote:

I have suggested in the past that anyone try this. Bill, you are pretty sharp and seem to have a mind for inquiry so I will ask if you will try this.
Now people might or might not know so I will mention that hoods are non-bearing items and as such they are not really made to bear force. Especially from the front. Most hoods have a very small support structure that is primarily used to attach the hood to the hood struts that are used to open and close the hood and nothing more. The actual structural integrity for the hood is primarily based on the shape of the hood. Those curved hoods are not just aerodynamic they also have a lot to do with the structural integrity of the hood without adding any weight. So that curved surface that you see is what keeps the hood from flopping around as a flat piece of metal would. Its shape also makes it prone to failure in very specific ways. Now you (anyone) can model that failure with something as complex as finite element analysis program or something as simple as a piece of paper. Try the paper. Take a sheet of paper. Give it a little curl from left side to right side as Maura's car has. Then apply a point force to the front with your finger and see if that deformation reminds you of anything. Bearing in mind that the paper has no plastic limit to pass through so it will not maintain that shape after you let go.
Bill

Can you explain the difference of impact between hitting a tree and hitting the Road marker and how it relates to the damage to Mauras car?

Thanks that would be helpfull

I say that if the TV guy says he saw the tracks cutting the corner then someone else (EMS -FD ) must have seen it also so I ask JR to inquire further with these folks.

By the way, good to see good conversation and also questioning those that you Normally side with. I had brought it up many times about the landing of Mauras car did not make sense based on physics. She was way to far up the corner and the back end should swerve right and front to the left.

I actually did Bills Paper thing and ended up with a paper airplane/ I then thought about the Haverhill Airport. Just kidding :)

Hey Bill ' was the finger meant to represent the post or the tree and what is the difference? To me the tree would be more damage and that is not good for your theory is it?

Nobody responded to you Bill so your paper thing must have went over like a lead balloon.

Sam Ledyard wrote:

Here's a recent pic (the photographer wishes to remain anonymous) which clearly shows the markers.
It was taken in light of the discussion on this thread and on the blog.
http://notwithoutperil.files.wordpress.com/20... .
More pictures on the blog.

Great pics - thanks to the anonymous person who took them.

It appears that the ribbon and missing sign has been removed from the tree again.

Maruchan wrote:

<quoted text>
Great pics - thanks to the anonymous person who took them.
It appears that the ribbon and missing sign has been removed from the tree again.

Hey Maruch- I give you props for research and talking about Maura. Way to go girl.

All I hope for is good back and forth conversation to get to the fact. I hope most of us want to achieve the same .

Maruchan wrote:

<quoted text>
Great pics - thanks to the anonymous person who took them.
It appears that the ribbon and missing sign has been removed from the tree again.

Someone Local wants the Ribbon gone????? Why is that?