Maura Murray

Snowy wrote:

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was there not an aerial search as well?

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NHwoodshome wrote:

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The problem I see with the search is some if not much of it was uncoordinated and due to this no one knows who's footprints are who's in the snow. Areas are searched multiple times and others left untouched. Also a person could easily take a step off the road in some places and it would be difficult to see. Having some experience in search and rescue ( military ) the proper way is a well planned grid search and in this area it would just about have to be hand to hand its so thick. Also many of the searchers weren't trained in what to look for. Sadly it takes alot of manpower which I'm sure wasn't available and everyone did the best they could and that's all one can expect.
I have to question her having a relationship in the area, I would assume somewhere there would be a trail like phone records or e-mail. People have to have contact somehow, I wonder if the phone at the desk she worked at in college was ever for calls to the northern NH region if it was possible. Perhaps there is a paper trail and it just hasn't been disclosed. Also the lack of secure custody by PD of Maura's PC in the beginning may have been a missed opportunity.
Then we originally hear all the alcohol other than the spilled wine was removed by Maura, Mr. Renner says he called Haverhill NH PD and they said all the alcohol was accounted for, why are they releasing information on an open investigation, if they really did?
The only blame I lay at the feet of the PD the first night is first not looking very far easterly ESPECIALLY when they see a cracked windshield which officer Smith I believe stated was due to impact from the drivers head. Ever hear of concussion or delayed brain bleed, this should have immediately raised concern. I do agree people leave the scene of a DUI, but this had a potential head injury.
Perhaps it would have been difficult to round up needed resources at that hour in northern NH, but seems like they lost all of Tuesday not taking the situation as serious as it now known. So many ifs and buts and in reality to those of us not involved in the investigation seemingly NO clues. I do believe if law enforcement had the chance for a do over the outcome may have been different and I am sure some involved have nightmares over this.

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Wowzer the real one wrote:

<quoted text>NHwoodshome have you searched or really walked in the woods in the winter? While I agree it's near impossible to find someone in the woods in the summertime I think it's much easier to see quite far into the woods in the winter with the leaves gone than in the summer when you can see nothing but green.
If she did wander off the road there would be prints of somekind in the snow. It wasn't cold enough for a person to not leave any prints. They did a search with dogs in the area of 112/116 area and beyond so the area where Forcier said he saw her was searched.

citigirl wrote:

<quoted text>Wowzer it maybe easier to see in the wintertime because the leavese are gone but each snowfall makes it more difficult because now everything is being hidden under a coat of snow. There was a neighbor in the area that had claimed to see footprints and pointed out the area to us. It was stated to some of us by this neighbor that the day after Maura disappeared this person thought it was the fish and game. The only thing is the fish and game did not go out searching for Maura until Wednesday. Yes there was a search for Maura on 112 on that Wednesday after she disappeared but it was several months later that Forcier had told LE what he had witnessed on the night of Feb 9th. The search down in the area of 116 I believe was in the month of the spring or summer months after Maura had disappeared.

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Wowzer the real one wrote:

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I don't think I remember anyone stating that the cracked windshield was due to an impact from the drivers head. Could you put a link to where you read that please.
I believe when the car was found with no driver and there were signs that the driver may have been drinking that the police figured it was just another intoxicated person leaving the scene until they sobered up.And they've seen many similar accidents before.
There also were 5 houses in plain view if someone wanted or needed help which also may have ran across their minds.
Why would people involved have nightmares over this? There is no evidence that a crime was even committed.

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citigirl wrote:

<quoted text> the search for Maura on the night of Feb. 9th by witnesses whom were on the scene that night stated the eastly search was only to the the beginning of Bradley Hill road. And they did not go any farther up this road because there no visible footprints that were seen. Old Peters way was searched on this night and Im not sure how far up this road they searched. I do remember a witness on the scene that night saying that CS from LE said that she probably went to visit a friend in the mountain Lakes.

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Snowy wrote:

the point is, NHwoodshome, hindsight is always clearer, so second guessing the authorities doesn't take into account the reason she was running from Amherst, and her social and family circumstances.
we are responsible for ourselves, and by extension, our families, if we so desire. there could have been no way to 'read' the circumstances would involve her disappearance.
today, nearly 8 years later, no one claims to know where, when, why, how. until they do, there's a finger pointing back for every finger pointing to blame.

looking4amoose wrote:

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There was very little snow that winter--at the time she disappeared there were even bare spots in my back yard. Even after her disappearance not much fell so seeing the footprints would've remained relatively easy.
On a different subject, do you know if she had any friends in Mountain Lakes ?

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Snowy wrote:

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i've proven that the reference to this map within your circle of friends IS, in fact, as "Silky's map". and in keeping with your posting history, you fail with intention to present information in context. that it appears on the CCU website was not at issue. your credibility = zero. end of story.

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Snowy wrote:

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thank you for the overview. additional information gathered elsewhere, some time ago, by others to fill in the blanks is disturbing, and is unsuitable to repeat here.
obviously, there was a very strong connection, Beth to Helena, and SB is very much aware of the details, regardless of whether or not she ever met her in person.
"Silky's map" was the tool SB used to defend her theory and rants on topix about serial killings. further, she repeatedly made reference to NH's being "unsafe", regardless of data and tables presented to dispute her unsupported statements.
when SB was asked to clarify "Silky"/Beth's role in MM's disappearance, she became extremely defensive, and, of course, rude. these off-putting behaviors, along with so many years of speculation presented as unsupported "facts" have tried the patience of rational, intelligent contributors to this forum and others.
affirmations, and then denials, about the tiniest bits of information has been the name of the game for as long as i have been following. we still see this happening today.
again, thank you for the information, just me. hope you and your family are doing well.

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just me wrote:

<quoted text> I was contacted by the PI, well after Beths death via email. I was on the email list. The email had an attatchment, and it was the document. I could see all the others names, some I know from the MMM group. The PI was ranting and making her case that Beth had been steering the investigation in the wrong ways and was by no means qualified to be running the show, or even in the show. From that first email from Beth at snewzertripod, I became an email buddy. One day while reading one of the forums, I got an instant message. It was Beth. She had made up an email account for AOL, she said, so no one could see when she was online. I have had AOL from day one. Anyway, Beth would instant message me about the case whenever she saw that I was online.
One week after Beth died, Helena called me to ask if the detectives had gotten ahold of me yet. She asked me if I ever felt "stalked" by Beth.
And all I can say is it made my blood run cold, I will not elaborate. I suspect that is why I was included in the whole mess and sent the death certificate. But I don't have much to say. The emails and instant messaging was pretty much like this Topix forum. Alot of tossing around ideas, and some of it turned out to be false. I know that Beth was analizing the Indelicato case. She was reviewing his daughters dark poetry. She had access to everything as an administator on the MMM forum and had taken alot of info, alot of liberties and was not supposed to have had access to thoses poems.
Beth was very interested in the Valley killings at the time Maura went missing. Helena had a hard copy of the shawdow of death by her computer too. I'm sure Helena really thought Beth would be a great help. I have no idea what kind of stories, if any, she would have told Helena to gain her trust. But like I say, Helena contacted her, sought her out, this I know for a fact

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Snowy wrote:

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thank you, once again, for your first person accounting....and when you cannot verify information as fact, you say so.
the integrity of the online search for MM has been tainted by the manipulation of relevant information about MM's background, and associated people and places by the Murray family AND THEIR REPRESENTATIVES, all the while begging to "find Maura". facts were made intentionally scarce, and often took the form of speculation or outright misinformation, repeated over and over as truth.
by way of another example, the insistence by Topix/team Maura that Maura was happily engaged and intending to marry Billy Rausch was apparently untrue.
i suspect the motivation was/is the belief that the "killer" would reappear on Topix....and they'd crack the case. the dishonesty has come full circle, however, and has stunted the interest and efforts of the public to assist. it is disgusting to ask the general public for their help, and then, with intent and hostility, mislead that same public audience.
Renner is a breath of fresh air.

Snowy wrote:

the point is, NHwoodshome, hindsight is always clearer, so second guessing the authorities doesn't take into account the reason she was running from Amherst, and her social and family circumstances.
we are responsible for ourselves, and by extension, our families, if we so desire. there could have been no way to 'read' the circumstances would involve her disappearance.
today, nearly 8 years later, no one claims to know where, when, why, how. until they do, there's a finger pointing back for every finger pointing to blame.

Wowzer the real one wrote:

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I think there's much more to the story concerning Beth that we don't know. Thinking back there were a couple of very strange things that happened that left me shaking my head. One concerned a doll head.

Snowy wrote:

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wow. to think this family would choose such a person, a non-professional, to help find a needle in a haystack. NH and VT people are private with a capital P.
i really have to wonder what the heck Fred Murray was doing all this time while Helena was managing forums and interfacing with the public, the PIs were chasing their tails around, and Beth was incognito...and possibly at risk.
unless i'm mistaken, M's siblings took a back seat after the initial searches, and didn't appear with Fred and Billy at an early national interview. it's just odd....to have such active, online forums and yet leave them to the care of strangers from the under the big top.
in most cases of the disappeared, some turned homicides, the parent(s) is/are front and center.
the last media interview i was aware of was a one-on-one with Helena. where's the father?

Wowzer the real one wrote:

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To my recollection (it was a long time ago) it was either one of those heads you put on a pencil or one of those wobble heads displayed on a car dash board.
She found one in the woods and turned it into something very suspicious and sinister. It was implied it must have something to do with Maura's disappearance. It was all very strange.