Maura Murray

Someone was asking about the bottles of booze, and I see MR Renner is making note of that too.

In order for Maura to appear sober, she'd have to be closer to sober than not when she crashed her fathers car. Maybe she went to her room first for a good brushing and hand washing.
Campus police, are they forgiving like that at UMASS? I mean, would they let her off if she was holding her own? We have only what the family says. There's always a citation when you get in a crack up, it's a moving violation. So whay really happened that night? Did Maura eat a good meal with her dinner drinks. Did she pretend to have more than one drink at the party? Was Maura seen as an honor student......did it just get past the officers senses?

I only recall the booze and mix on the receipt. The wine had already been gone into at the party. For anyone to make it sound like the wine was on the receipt too, is wishful thinking.(IMO, Really)

They say Maura was looking into what drinking might do to an unborn baby.

So my vote is, she was going for an abortion, not wasting a minutes time. After that was done, she was going to lay back with someone and drink. That coke bottle could have already been there, like the beer bottle was......from some other time.
People just supposed that because they discovered the wine in back, that it was on the receipt, that she'd taken the rest when she took off into the night.
After reading and getting a feeling of the darkness there, the curvy roads, etc, I just don't think a new driver could get to Point B in an intoxicated state unless she was really, really used to drinking and could still function.

Just morning thoughts here.....

just me wrote:

Someone was asking about the bottles of booze, and I see MR Renner is making note of that too.
In order for Maura to appear sober, she'd have to be closer to sober than not when she crashed her fathers car. Maybe she went to her room first for a good brushing and hand washing.
Campus police, are they forgiving like that at UMASS? I mean, would they let her off if she was holding her own? We have only what the family says. There's always a citation when you get in a crack up, it's a moving violation. So whay really happened that night? Did Maura eat a good meal with her dinner drinks. Did she pretend to have more than one drink at the party? Was Maura seen as an honor student......did it just get past the officers senses?
I only recall the booze and mix on the receipt. The wine had already been gone into at the party. For anyone to make it sound like the wine was on the receipt too, is wishful thinking.(IMO, Really)
They say Maura was looking into what drinking might do to an unborn baby.
So my vote is, she was going for an abortion, not wasting a minutes time. After that was done, she was going to lay back with someone and drink. That coke bottle could have already been there, like the beer bottle was......from some other time.
People just supposed that because they discovered the wine in back, that it was on the receipt, that she'd taken the rest when she took off into the night.
After reading and getting a feeling of the darkness there, the curvy roads, etc, I just don't think a new driver could get to Point B in an intoxicated state unless she was really, really used to drinking and could still function.
Just morning thoughts here.....

The more a person drinks, the more will s/he be able to tolerate without appearing drunk. There are cases where people with a severe addiction have had a blood alcohol level that would kill someone not addicted to alcohol. So, it is possible for Maura to have been drinking quite a lot without appearing drunk, depending on just how addicted to alcohol she was. I think it is a bit odd the officer responding to the Hadley accident didn´t administer a sobriety test. Would a citation necessarily appear in the police report? Maybe it´s time for a FOIA request regarding the corolla crash.
Since Maura was reportedly looking into the effects of alcohol on a fetus, there is no doubt in my mind she was in the early stages of pregnancy and worried about what damage her excessive drinking might do. I too believe she was planning an abortion, and I believe her father, and possibly also her sister, knew about it. I believe the Rausches didn´t know, and that Billy was not the father of this supoosed child.
Remember mr Renner reportedly contacted the guy who supposedly was her secret boyfriend in September and wrote he would get back on the subject when and if he made contact. Since quite some time have passed, it looks like the guy is not interested in being interviewed. Might mean something. Or nothing at all.

just me wrote:

Someone was asking about the bottles of booze, and I see MR Renner is making note of that too.
In order for Maura to appear sober, she'd have to be closer to sober than not when she crashed her fathers car. Maybe she went to her room first for a good brushing and hand washing.
Campus police, are they forgiving like that at UMASS? I mean, would they let her off if she was holding her own? We have only what the family says. There's always a citation when you get in a crack up, it's a moving violation. So whay really happened that night? Did Maura eat a good meal with her dinner drinks. Did she pretend to have more than one drink at the party? Was Maura seen as an honor student......did it just get past the officers senses?
I only recall the booze and mix on the receipt. The wine had already been gone into at the party. For anyone to make it sound like the wine was on the receipt too, is wishful thinking.(IMO, Really)
They say Maura was looking into what drinking might do to an unborn baby.
So my vote is, she was going for an abortion, not wasting a minutes time. After that was done, she was going to lay back with someone and drink. That coke bottle could have already been there, like the beer bottle was......from some other time.
People just supposed that because they discovered the wine in back, that it was on the receipt, that she'd taken the rest when she took off into the night.
After reading and getting a feeling of the darkness there, the curvy roads, etc, I just don't think a new driver could get to Point B in an intoxicated state unless she was really, really used to drinking and could still function.
Just morning thoughts here.....

Just to clarify-- she wasn't pulled over by UMass police, she was pulled over by the police in Hadley. She was off-campus on route 47-- you can see UMass from the place she crashed but it's out of campus jurisdiction.

And to answer your question, UMass police were pretty lenient as long as you weren't being completely dangerous. I've personally witnessed them going up to a room that reeked of pot smoke, knock on the door, and laugh as they walk away going "no one there!" Of course this was before decrim in Massachusetts, so lenient on their part. That said, they also did go after people acting dangerously during the riots in the Southwest living area in 2003 and 2004.

I guess you could look at it this way: you got into trouble with the UMass police if you put someone (or yourself) in danger. If you were just being a kid, they let you be one.

kitten wrote:

<quoted text>
Just to clarify-- she wasn't pulled over by UMass police, she was pulled over by the police in Hadley. She was off-campus on route 47-- you can see UMass from the place she crashed but it's out of campus jurisdiction.

Just curious. Maura was actually pulled over by Hadley police? On route 47? I assume this is something different from the Corolla crash, which is supposed to have occurred at the intersection of N. Hadley Rd. and Roosevelt/N. Maple St. but definitely off campus, off UMass property altogether? Maybe I'm wrong, but I always thought the Corolla crash did not occur on Route 47.

UMass police are not limited to UMass/Amherst main campus. There are a ton of UMass locations scattered not just around the Valley, but also throughout the Commonwealth. Mt. Toby is one. They have a wider jurisdiction than is commonly thought. Some of them are used as undercover drug cops in towns as far away as Greenfield.

just me wrote:

<quoted text>Thanks again. It helps me get a better picture and is very helpful to know the cottage witness would have to be flying to the point of a ticket maybe........some made it sound so near by, so fast to get from point A to point B.

It really is only about 7 miles away, but, it takes time to get to your car, warm it up (it was reportedly very cold) and then get up Goose Lane---part of which is a dirt road, no streetlights and those damn dear!

So what's the latest?

hannah_b wrote:

<quoted text>
Since Maura was reportedly looking into the effects of alcohol on a fetus, there is no doubt in my mind she was in the early stages of pregnancy and worried about what damage her excessive drinking might do. I too believe she was planning an abortion, and I believe her father, and possibly also her sister, knew about it.

Remember how Kathleen did not offer that she even spoke to Maura? It took obtaining the cellphone records for police to even know that Kathleen was the one who talked with Maura that night. They keep reporting that Kathleen does not recall a second call with her sister, because she takes sleeping pills. Sounds like maybe they saw another call, or why would police say that?

Makes me wish police would ask for help from the public. I hope that whoever looked at the hard drive was able to see if files had been deleted in between the time that Maura left, and Kathleen having the laptop for all those months. K says she didn't use computers at the time, but a good look might show something.

Hello all,

Regarding the rag stuffed into the tailpipe of
Maura´s Saturn, I have read several versions.

1. That Fred Murray actually identified the rag as being part of Maura´s emergency kit, kept in the trunk of her car.
Question: Has it ever been publicly known whether Mr Murray in fact did ID the rag as Maura´s?

2. In what condition was the rag when removed from the tailpipe of the Saturn?
I recall having read somewhere that it supposedly was quite clean, indicating that it must have been pushed into the tailpipe quite recently.
Question: Anybody else remembers this?

3. How deep into the tailpipe was the rag found?
Again, I seem to remember having read that it was pushed quite some way into the tailpipe.
If so, the rag would have been completely useless as a means to warn oncoming motorists of Maura´s car.
Question: Is my memory correct on this point or have you read anything contrary to this?

Another thing:
I think it was Lookingforamoose who recently mentioned the prevalence of deer in the area.
What if Maura ran into or narrowly avoided running into a deer at some point further west on Rte 112, perhaps somewhere between the US 302/NH 10 intersection and Swiftwater village?
What if some other motorist (perhaps the driver of the red truck noticed by witness RO) came by, stopped and offered Maura some help with her car, which conceivably might have ended up partly in a ditch.
What if this motorist for some reason at some point jams the rag into Maura´s tailpipe, intending her car to stall at some point further ahead on Rte 112?
What if Maura´s Saturn actually did stall badly at the Weathered Barn curve, therefore causing the accident at that point?
What if the theoretical perp (perhaps driving the red truck) "happens" to drive past, stops and offers Maura a lift? Would she have accepted, if so? Or was she coerced into doing so?

Lots of ifs and theories here, I agree, but I fail to see that this rag was a "friendly" one, unless it can be definitiely ascertained that Fred Murray did indeed identify it as being part of Maura´s emergency kit.

Any ideas?

looking4amoose wrote:

<quoted text>the car is behind locked gates....I didn't say anything about secure, but it has already been searched. That wouldn't effect and already broken windshield

It is most definitely NOT "behind locked gates," There is a fenced, locked area - very small. Maura's car is not in it - it is sitting beside it and has been for years. Unless it has literally been moved in the last three weeks.

sophie bean wrote:

<quoted text>
It is most definitely NOT "behind locked gates," There is a fenced, locked area - very small. Maura's car is not in it - it is sitting beside it and has been for years. Unless it has literally been moved in the last three weeks.

the pictures I took last summer show otherwise. Sorry

just me wrote:

Makes me wish police would ask for help from the public. I hope that whoever looked at the hard drive was able to see if files had been deleted in between the time that Maura left, and Kathleen having the laptop for all those months. K says she didn't use computers at the time, but a good look might show something.

Forgot to mention that Kathleen was the one who sent a picture via email, to the police dept in NH. You have to have some ability to to do at least this much.
I really do wonder if Kathleen left that laptop alone. Me personally, I would be looking at everything including deleted files.

"Gosh, I've got my sisters laptop....I think I'll just put it in the closet and not touch it again. Not until police come back to get it, that is"

The above is just silly, and only supposed in my mind. As soon as Kathleen got that laptop she went on to say that she had no knowledge,(or very little experience) of computers, and therefor never looked at Maura's laptop. Just tucked it away in the closet she says......

Hmmmmmmm

Anyone else think that's mighty strange or is it just me?

Bumping for Maura wrote:

Hello all,
Regarding the rag stuffed into the tailpipe of
Maura´s Saturn, I have read several versions.
1. That Fred Murray actually identified the rag as being part of Maura´s emergency kit, kept in the trunk of her car.
Question: Has it ever been publicly known whether Mr Murray in fact did ID the rag as Maura´s?
2. In what condition was the rag when removed from the tailpipe of the Saturn?
I recall having read somewhere that it supposedly was quite clean, indicating that it must have been pushed into the tailpipe quite recently.
Question: Anybody else remembers this?
3. How deep into the tailpipe was the rag found?
Again, I seem to remember having read that it was pushed quite some way into the tailpipe.
If so, the rag would have been completely useless as a means to warn oncoming motorists of Maura´s car.
Question: Is my memory correct on this point or have you read anything contrary to this?
Another thing:
I think it was Lookingforamoose who recently mentioned the prevalence of deer in the area.
What if Maura ran into or narrowly avoided running into a deer at some point further west on Rte 112, perhaps somewhere between the US 302/NH 10 intersection and Swiftwater village?
What if some other motorist (perhaps the driver of the red truck noticed by witness RO) came by, stopped and offered Maura some help with her car, which conceivably might have ended up partly in a ditch.
What if this motorist for some reason at some point jams the rag into Maura´s tailpipe, intending her car to stall at some point further ahead on Rte 112?
What if Maura´s Saturn actually did stall badly at the Weathered Barn curve, therefore causing the accident at that point?
What if the theoretical perp (perhaps driving the red truck) "happens" to drive past, stops and offers Maura a lift? Would she have accepted, if so? Or was she coerced into doing so?
Lots of ifs and theories here, I agree, but I fail to see that this rag was a "friendly" one, unless it can be definitiely ascertained that Fred Murray did indeed identify it as being part of Maura´s emergency kit.
Any ideas?

I am answering this in slow motion.....been a tough week for me.

I recall that the rag came out clean because the family said that it did, many times. If anyone has the old forums saved like Advocate and possibly Ben Franklin, maybe they will speak up on this matter.
I never did read where "Fred actually says" it's his rag. Again, only recall reading that on the forum, as told 2nd hand by someone else.
As for the other idea of possibly hitting or swerving to avoid a deer, what a good idea to help explain that red truck scenerio.

Hi just me and all, i have never believed that Mauras' computer was not looked at by her family.It would include her prior life and that was 'deemed not important' by Mr.Murray.We were old on the old Murray family forum that Mr Murray was able to start the saturn when he arrived with his handy dandy key.I still do not know when or how MrLavoie found the rag in the tail pipe.Sgt.Smiths' accident report was dated the following saturday after tha saturn was found.I was told the saturn was stored in the locked garage at Lavoies after it was towed.I do not know if any car towed and left outside by a suspected drunk driver in N.H would be considered secure by the court system.Anyone dig up on antyhing about Kevin V Noble.

whiston wrote:

Hi just me and all, i have never believed that Mauras' computer was not looked at by her family.It would include her prior life and that was 'deemed not important' by Mr.Murray.We were old on the old Murray family forum that Mr Murray was able to start the saturn when he arrived with his handy dandy key.I still do not know when or how MrLavoie found the rag in the tail pipe.Sgt.Smiths' accident report was dated the following saturday after tha saturn was found.I was told the saturn was stored in the locked garage at Lavoies after it was towed.I do not know if any car towed and left outside by a suspected drunk driver in N.H would be considered secure by the court system.Anyone dig up on antyhing about Kevin V Noble.

http://masscases.com/cases/sjc/429/429mass44....

"The charge against the defendant stemmed from an incident that occurred on June 24, 1994. The defendant lived in the basement apartment of his brother David's home. The defendant was playing his stereo loudly, disturbing David. David went downstairs leaving his girl friend in his (David's) apartment. David told the defendant to lower the volume. David's girl friend heard the two men yelling. She then heard "banging noises." She went downstairs. She saw the defendant on top of his brother. The defendant had his brother in a headlock with his arm around David's neck. The defendant was strangling David. David's girl friend said that the defendant appeared to be "using all his might." He appeared to be using "every bit of strength he had."
The girl friend yelled to the defendant, "Stop. Get off him. You're strangling him. You're killing him." The defendant made no response. He continued to strangle David. She yelled that David was turning blue. The defendant again made no response. She saw the defendant give David three "really, really tight jerks." The defendant got off David and said, "I don't care. It was self-defense." When the defendant released his hold, the girl friend unsuccessfully attempted to resuscitate David."

Not a very nice person. But what is his connection to Maura Murray?

Seems like the guy lives in Abington, MA. Or did as of Feb 2009. Don´t tell us he owned a red truck.

just me wrote:

"Gosh, I've got my sisters laptop....I think I'll just put it in the closet and not touch it again. Not until police come back to get it, that is"
The above is just silly, and only supposed in my mind. As soon as Kathleen got that laptop she went on to say that she had no knowledge,(or very little experience) of computers, and therefor never looked at Maura's laptop. Just tucked it away in the closet she says......
Hmmmmmmm
Anyone else think that's mighty strange or is it just me?

I agree, just me. It´s more than silly. If I was Kathleen I wouldn´t be able to get any sleep before I had gone over the contents of Maura´s computer. Of course she knows every tiny detail of Maura´s computer activities. And Fred do as well. Which is exactly why they deem Amherst and Maura´s life before the accident "not important". It´s just plain ridiculous.

Birthday party.

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/wanted_terrorists/d...

hannah_b wrote:

<quoted text>
The more a person drinks, the more will s/he be able to tolerate without appearing drunk. There are cases where people with a severe addiction have had a blood alcohol level that would kill someone not addicted to alcohol. So, it is possible for Maura to have been drinking quite a lot without appearing drunk, depending on just how addicted to alcohol she was. I think it is a bit odd the officer responding to the Hadley accident didn´t administer a sobriety test. Would a citation necessarily appear in the police report? Maybe it´s time for a FOIA request regarding the corolla crash.
Since Maura was reportedly looking into the effects of alcohol on a fetus, there is no doubt in my mind she was in the early stages of pregnancy and worried about what damage her excessive drinking might do. I too believe she was planning an abortion, and I believe her father, and possibly also her sister, knew about it. I believe the Rausches didn´t know, and that Billy was not the father of this supoosed child.
Remember mr Renner reportedly contacted the guy who supposedly was her secret boyfriend in September and wrote he would get back on the subject when and if he made contact. Since quite some time have passed, it looks like the guy is not interested in being interviewed. Might mean something. Or nothing at all.

The whole pregnancy thing has me baffled, she was on birth control, perhaps she was doing research as part of her training to become a nurse? Though it is possible to get pregnant on the pill I am not 100% sold she was pregnant, the idea may hold some merit looking at her seemingly downhill slide emotionally.

I think Maura had her secrets as many people do and its naive for her friends to think Maura would divulge everything to them. The accident in Hadley always made me wonder, accordingly Maura had drank quite a bit at the party and it makes one wonder at that time of night having an accident didn't raise a red flag with police? I wonder if the police did a field sobriety test and she passed, or nothing at all?