Maura Murray

jwb wrote:

<quoted text> Burlinton is also a college town. Maybe she had an aquatence there?

pure genius!
maybe. maybe not.

I know this subject has been discussed many times before, but according to all the accounts I have read Maura most likely had been filling up her car shortly before her accident at the Weathered Barn curve.
Apparently the gas gauge of the Saturn indicated nearly a full tank of gas when the ignition was turned on.
I have been "driving" through Wells River,VT, and Woodsville,NH, via Google Maps street view and there are a fair number of gas stations in that area.
If Maura did indeed fill up her car somewhere in that area, wouldn´t there have been CCTV cameras around in at least some of these places by 2004?
One would have to assume that Haverhill PD and NHSP did make enquiries in this direction at the time, but, yet again, nothing of the kind has ever been mentioned in public.
Likewise, if Maura did indeed drive north from MA along I-93 and stopped for gas at Lincoln/North Woodstock there should have been some witness accounts/CCTV footage available.
Again, nothing whatsoever being mentioned by LE or by the media at the time or later.

Possible conclusions:
1. There are no witness accounts/CCTV footage of Maura having purchased gas for her car in either of these locations.
2. There are such indications, but for some reasons LE is not releasing such information to the public and the media.

If the latter, why not release at least some information to the media/public?

If the former, the mystery is just as great, if one is to believe the media accounts of the gas gauge of the Saturn showing nearly a full tank at the Weathered Barn curve.

Ideas? Theories?

aftermath wrote:

<quoted text>
jwb,
Agreed. It would be reasonable to attend the Burlington Winter Carnival rather than a conference. Seemed as though it may have been a last minute idea, as she was attempting to determine motel availability more than a bit late if planning to attend the Winter Carnival.

But even the winter carnival idea I am so so on. I wouldn't go alone to a winter carnival in a crappy car. nor would I go to a winter carnival alone with a good car. I feel she was either getting away to be alone and work out her problems or meet up with someone and work out issues with him or just to meet up and kick back just my opinion

Bumping for Maura wrote:

I know this subject has been discussed many times before, but according to all the accounts I have read Maura most likely had been filling up her car shortly before her accident at the Weathered Barn curve.
Apparently the gas gauge of the Saturn indicated nearly a full tank of gas when the ignition was turned on.
I have been "driving" through Wells River,VT, and Woodsville,NH, via Google Maps street view and there are a fair number of gas stations in that area.
If Maura did indeed fill up her car somewhere in that area, wouldn´t there have been CCTV cameras around in at least some of these places by 2004?
One would have to assume that Haverhill PD and NHSP did make enquiries in this direction at the time, but, yet again, nothing of the kind has ever been mentioned in public.
Likewise, if Maura did indeed drive north from MA along I-93 and stopped for gas at Lincoln/North Woodstock there should have been some witness accounts/CCTV footage available.
Again, nothing whatsoever being mentioned by LE or by the media at the time or later.
Possible conclusions:
1. There are no witness accounts/CCTV footage of Maura having purchased gas for her car in either of these locations.
2. There are such indications, but for some reasons LE is not releasing such information to the public and the media.
If the latter, why not release at least some information to the media/public?
If the former, the mystery is just as great, if one is to believe the media accounts of the gas gauge of the Saturn showing nearly a full tank at the Weathered Barn curve.
Ideas? Theories?

Great points! I have thought that myself. One would hope those leads were followed but the idea that the condo owners that she called were not looked into by LE is very discerning. Most video tapes I believe will go for a month and then tape over themselves.This could possibly be a dropped ball.

Snowy wrote:

<quoted text>
pure genius!
maybe. maybe not.

Pure Bitch ? yes (sorry folks) snowy hasn't caught on that she is the only one arguing yet. She is very slow today. The tide must be out

Merry christmas Snowy

Snowy wrote:

<quoted text>
correct; wise owl as in snowy white.
correct: that sweet smell of septic wafting right down from Maine; i smell it all the way over heah in Glosta.

Can't you read or pay attention? I am in nh not maine and by the way snowy, the more you keep on typing the more of an ass you look like.

Snowy wrote:

<quoted text>
correct; wise owl as in snowy white.
correct: that sweet smell of septic wafting right down from Maine; i smell it all the way over heah in Glosta.

you need to pay attention. what is wrong with you? I am in Lincoln NH.

If you didn't get it, I sent you the info twice as in two posts so it would sink in .

Contributions to the forum

JWB : Many in a couple months

Snowy: none in 7 years

jwb wrote:

<quoted text>
Great points! I have thought that myself. One would hope those leads were followed but the idea that the condo owners that she called were not looked into by LE is very discerning. Most video tapes I believe will go for a month and then tape over themselves.This could possibly be a dropped ball.

jwb,
Unless Maura paid for her gas in cash, there must have been a credit card history available wherever she stopped to get gas, presumably not too far from Swiftwater,NH.
Yet another thing to consider, and again, not a peep from LE about this angle.
It somehow reminds me of the supposed CCTV footage of Maura from the liquor store or ATM Place near Amherst,MA (can´t right now recall whether it was a liquor store or ATM), which supposedly exists, but which not even Maura´s family apparently has ever seen.
The strangeness of Maura´s case is indeed frustrating and pretty much dissimilar to most other similar vanishing cases that I have ever read about.
The seeming reticence by LE to comment on the MM case and to give the media/public the merest modicum of new information is, in my opinion, extremely unsettling to consider.
Doesn´t LE (primarily NHSP) realize that this course of action/inaction is tantamount to inducing a growing suspicion among the public (and no doubt MM´s family) about the reasons behind this course of action, or rather lack of action.
To continuously repeat the NHSP mantra of this being a continuing investigation, etc, etc, is IMHO not reason enough for LE to remain so remarkably tightlipped.

aftermath wrote:

Northwoodsman52 wrote:
"The problem with the investigators is they have NO fact or evidence to back up the foul play theory."
Northwoodsman52,
Do you know this for certain? If your information is accurate, it sounds hopeless. Are you attempting to say that facts or "evidence" to support the rogue le officer theory may have flown to Capistrano with the swallows or in this case from Rte 112? Please clarify.

By evidence I mean no items of hers found with blood, no blood in the car, no sign of a struggle, no clothing, no weapon connected to her, NOTHING. How can these detectives say she's a victim of foul play when there's nothing to go on, and they seem to have been open about the investigation. People have ego's and I would think if they found something concrete they would like the credit. As I stated I believe they are basing their theory on percentages. Most people that disappear like Maura are victims of homicide or kidnapping.

But, I see Maura's case as being a bit unique, she left town for unknown reasons other than she may have been under stress.
She had two alcohol related accidents days apart, it seems she didn't want contact with LE after her accident on rt 112. I do believe she ran off eastbound on rt 112, and I do believe she may well have perished due to hypothermia.

Hypothermia is a nasty condition that can catch you off guard and acts quickly. As I stated before even if one has training in dealing with it, time and the materials needed, additional clothing, shelter, and warmth. Once the uncontrollable shaking starts your in BIG trouble.

The rogue cop theory is just above alien abduction on my list, possible but highly unlikely. Police cars are noticed by EVERYONE, and people tend to check out cop cars and who's in them. Yes she could have been in the trunk, but an officer would take a huge risk of being seen.

I don't understand putting so much emphasis toward the least likely instead of the more plausible. Most plausible to me is:

1. Hypothermia, I've been there and you have very little time to react properly.

2. Abducted by someone taking advantage of the situation who had no plan at all to abduct someone, a fluke encounter. Fair possibility, but for me below hypothermia.

3. Started a new life and has been lucky as hell not to be found. She would have needed help such as transportation and money to leave the area. She would have had to find a way to create a new identity ASAP.

Life and experience has taught me that sometimes the answer is usually simple and obvious, sometimes so obvious we tend to think the answer is too easy or simple and overlook it. I tend to try to go with what facts are on hand and the only facts we have is she wasn't at the car when officer Smith arrived and that there's a good chance she was seem miles down the road which leans more credence to hypothermia.

I would hope that all of us on this forum one day know the answer to the Maura Murray mystery, but more so for the family and friends sake. Sadly as more and more years pass the chances of an answer seem slimmer.

Bumping for Maura wrote:

<quoted text>
jwb,
Unless Maura paid for her gas in cash, there must have been a credit card history available wherever she stopped to get gas, presumably not too far from Swiftwater,NH.
Yet another thing to consider, and again, not a peep from LE about this angle.
It somehow reminds me of the supposed CCTV footage of Maura from the liquor store or ATM Place near Amherst,MA (can´t right now recall whether it was a liquor store or ATM), which supposedly exists, but which not even Maura´s family apparently has ever seen.
The strangeness of Maura´s case is indeed frustrating and pretty much dissimilar to most other similar vanishing cases that I have ever read about.
The seeming reticence by LE to comment on the MM case and to give the media/public the merest modicum of new information is, in my opinion, extremely unsettling to consider.
Doesn´t LE (primarily NHSP) realize that this course of action/inaction is tantamount to inducing a growing suspicion among the public (and no doubt MM´s family) about the reasons behind this course of action, or rather lack of action.
To continuously repeat the NHSP mantra of this being a continuing investigation, etc, etc, is IMHO not reason enough for LE to remain so remarkably tightlipped.

If I remember right after she went to the ATM she had very little left in her account which makes me think she may have used cash. I wonder if she even had a credit card?

The whole ATM video being kept under wraps seems odd, but sometimes investigators keep everything under wraps regardless of significance. You never know what may have seemed like nothing later turns out to be huge and they don't want anything compromised. I also wonder if the seeming feud between Fred and LE may have played a role, lord alone knows what Fred may say to the media.

AS far as gas, she may have filled up before she left and would have had plenty of fuel. I had a Saturn, I believe it was a 1993 and it got 45mpg on the highway, though mine was a stick and Maura's I think was an automatic and wasn't running well so hers would get slightly less.

I agree this is one strange case with obviously way more questions than answers. Also it seems like some involved though they wish to find Maura, have their own agenda as well.

Bumping for Maura wrote:

I know this subject has been discussed many times before, but according to all the accounts I have read Maura most likely had been filling up her car shortly before her accident at the Weathered Barn curve.
Apparently the gas gauge of the Saturn indicated nearly a full tank of gas when the ignition was turned on.
I have been "driving" through Wells River,VT, and Woodsville,NH, via Google Maps street view and there are a fair number of gas stations in that area.
If Maura did indeed fill up her car somewhere in that area, wouldn´t there have been CCTV cameras around in at least some of these places by 2004?
One would have to assume that Haverhill PD and NHSP did make enquiries in this direction at the time, but, yet again, nothing of the kind has ever been mentioned in public.
Likewise, if Maura did indeed drive north from MA along I-93 and stopped for gas at Lincoln/North Woodstock there should have been some witness accounts/CCTV footage available.
Again, nothing whatsoever being mentioned by LE or by the media at the time or later.
Possible conclusions:
1. There are no witness accounts/CCTV footage of Maura having purchased gas for her car in either of these locations.
2. There are such indications, but for some reasons LE is not releasing such information to the public and the media.
If the latter, why not release at least some information to the media/public?
If the former, the mystery is just as great, if one is to believe the media accounts of the gas gauge of the Saturn showing nearly a full tank at the Weathered Barn curve.
Ideas? Theories?

Bumping for Maura,
What I've concluded is that it is not a good idea to assume too much. A lot of people would have assumed authorities would have checked statement for Maura's cell phone calls. The Salamones indicated that LE had not contacted them. If it had not been for Billy's mother, Mrs. R, no one would have known Maura had phoned them. Missing documentation, Maura's personal belongings collected, kept, returned to the family and then a year or two later collected from the family? In my opinion, we need to consider everything with the understanding that there is an unusual protocol procedure that is often at play in this case. The "facts" and documentation often cling to slippery slopes. Only phone records seem to be factual. Witness reports, even documentation cannot be considered factual in my opinion. Not in this case. For example, how often is there a case where a group works as dilingently as the one group on this site (for almost 7 years!) in an attempt to make people go away?'Tis rare.

Just one more thing I thought of:

Are there any places along Rte 112 between the 302/10 intersection to the west and the Weathered Barn curve to the east where Maura might have been heading for whatever reason?(Excepting private homes and the Stage Stop Store in Swiftwater)
Checking out maps over the area and Google Maps street views I can only come up with two theoretical possibilities:
1. The Swiftwater Lab in Swiftwater village.
2. The "Christmas Tree" Farm (Mountain Star Farms, IIRC) between Swiftwater village and the Weathered Barn curve.
Then there is of course the Cottage Hospital in Woodsville (on Rte 10, but connected to Rte 112 in Swiftwater via Goose Lane/Swiftwater Road).
Not very likely places for an early evening visit on a Monday night in early February, but then nothing seems very likely in this case for sure.

Bumping for Maura wrote:

<quoted text>
jwb,
Unless Maura paid for her gas in cash, there must have been a credit card history available wherever she stopped to get gas, presumably not too far from Swiftwater,NH.
Yet another thing to consider, and again, not a peep from LE about this angle.
It somehow reminds me of the supposed CCTV footage of Maura from the liquor store or ATM Place near Amherst,MA (can´t right now recall whether it was a liquor store or ATM), which supposedly exists, but which not even Maura´s family apparently has ever seen.
The strangeness of Maura´s case is indeed frustrating and pretty much dissimilar to most other similar vanishing cases that I have ever read about.
The seeming reticence by LE to comment on the MM case and to give the media/public the merest modicum of new information is, in my opinion, extremely unsettling to consider.
Doesn´t LE (primarily NHSP) realize that this course of action/inaction is tantamount to inducing a growing suspicion among the public (and no doubt MM´s family) about the reasons behind this course of action, or rather lack of action.
To continuously repeat the NHSP mantra of this being a continuing investigation, etc, etc, is IMHO not reason enough for LE to remain so remarkably tightlipped.

another great point on the credit card. Never gave that a thought. IO am sure that has been looked at once the Bill came in. I don't put a lot of stock into the secrecy part of things because it is an investigation and the best way to crack the case is to keep people guessing IE the perpetrator if there in fact is one.

aftermath wrote:

<quoted text>
Bumping for Maura,
What I've concluded is that it is not a good idea to assume too much. A lot of people would have assumed authorities would have checked statement for Maura's cell phone calls. The Salamones indicated that LE had not contacted them. If it had not been for Billy's mother, Mrs. R, no one would have known Maura had phoned them. Missing documentation, Maura's personal belongings collected, kept, returned to the family and then a year or two later collected from the family? In my opinion, we need to consider everything with the understanding that there is an unusual protocol procedure that is often at play in this case. The "facts" and documentation often cling to slippery slopes. Only phone records seem to be factual. Witness reports, even documentation cannot be considered factual in my opinion. Not in this case. For example, how often is there a case where a group works as dilingently as the one group on this site (for almost 7 years!) in an attempt to make people go away?'Tis rare.

As previously stated, I like your style. you have offered good provoking thoughts and conversation. Too bad if certain people say same ol. If she I mean they are board then she I mean they need to go away or when participating do it respectfully. Thank you Bill for laying low and you have inputted much these last two days.

I have a feeling wowzer the real one will be visiting soon. anyone else have that feeling?

aftermath wrote:

<quoted text>
Bumping for Maura,
What I've concluded is that it is not a good idea to assume too much. A lot of people would have assumed authorities would have checked statement for Maura's cell phone calls. The Salamones indicated that LE had not contacted them. If it had not been for Billy's mother, Mrs. R, no one would have known Maura had phoned them. Missing documentation, Maura's personal belongings collected, kept, returned to the family and then a year or two later collected from the family? In my opinion, we need to consider everything with the understanding that there is an unusual protocol procedure that is often at play in this case. The "facts" and documentation often cling to slippery slopes. Only phone records seem to be factual. Witness reports, even documentation cannot be considered factual in my opinion. Not in this case. For example, how often is there a case where a group works as dilingently as the one group on this site (for almost 7 years!) in an attempt to make people go away?'Tis rare.

Some of this borders on harebrained. So your take is that the documentation cannot be trusted. So did the officer and the witnesses all lie? Are none of them reliable? So basically you are bothered because none of the actual evidence fits into any of the theories that you have. This is part of the reason that there has been such contention in this case. Many of the internet sleuths try to push their version of the "truth" and then get upset because they are called on the fact that their version of the "truth" has no bearing in the known facts of the case. Shack was a prime example of this type of behavior. Her insistence and repeated statements that locals had a part in the death or injury of Maura or a coverup after the fact had no basis in evidence at the scene or any known information that was discovered. But she and a few others kept up that drumbeat for years. It makes far more sense to follow the known evidence to its conclusion or failing that leaving it alone until more evidence appears. That is how professionals do it. Nitwits make stuff up, and then try to force that facts to fit their theory or agenda and disregard any information that doesn't fit. That is what the fight has been about and still continues today.

Bill

NHwoodsman52 wrote:

<quoted text>
If I remember right after she went to the ATM she had very little left in her account which makes me think she may have used cash. I wonder if she even had a credit card?
The whole ATM video being kept under wraps seems odd, but sometimes investigators keep everything under wraps regardless of significance. You never know what may have seemed like nothing later turns out to be huge and they don't want anything compromised. I also wonder if the seeming feud between Fred and LE may have played a role, lord alone knows what Fred may say to the media.
AS far as gas, she may have filled up before she left and would have had plenty of fuel. I had a Saturn, I believe it was a 1993 and it got 45mpg on the highway, though mine was a stick and Maura's I think was an automatic and wasn't running well so hers would get slightly less.
I agree this is one strange case with obviously way more questions than answers. Also it seems like some involved though they wish to find Maura, have their own agenda as well.

There was mention of a credit card but it may have been an atm card

From caledonian record:
During the past five years, not only has she not been seen or found, her credit card and cell phone have not been used. Nor has her bank account. Family and friends have heard nothing.