Maura Murray

I was wrong abouT wowzer coming. Aftermath woke up Bill

Bumping for Maura wrote:
"The strangeness of Maura´s case is indeed frustrating and pretty much dissimilar to most other similar vanishing cases that I have ever read about."

Bumping for Maura,
What seemed puzzling is that the FBI's offer to take the case was rejected? FBI involvement was restricted to interviewing people in MA (friends, classmates?). It would have been interesting if the FBI had been allowed to handle the entire case from a day or two after the accident or even from the beginning of March 2004. There most likely would have been thorough interviews of observers, witnesses and others who had dropped by the scene of the accident that evening. Complete and thorough documentation might have resulted in missing pieces to the puzzle. Had there been more officers on duty that evening to respond to multiple accidents, maybe the outcome would have been different. Multiple accidents that evening due to the weather exhausts manpower of pd with few law enforcement officers. It's difficult to respond to multiple accidents all within a short period of time. It seems that many small, rural police departments could use a few more officers, especially during winter months. For an officer to have to respond to multiple accidents on any one night within a short period of time creates unnecessary stress on him or her.

aftermath wrote:

Bumping for Maura wrote:
"The strangeness of Maura´s case is indeed frustrating and pretty much dissimilar to most other similar vanishing cases that I have ever read about."
Bumping for Maura,
What seemed puzzling is that the FBI's offer to take the case was rejected? FBI involvement was restricted to interviewing people in MA (friends, classmates?). It would have been interesting if the FBI had been allowed to handle the entire case from a day or two after the accident or even from the beginning of March 2004. There most likely would have been thorough interviews of observers, witnesses and others who had dropped by the scene of the accident that evening. Complete and thorough documentation might have resulted in missing pieces to the puzzle. Had there been more officers on duty that evening to respond to multiple accidents, maybe the outcome would have been different. Multiple accidents that evening due to the weather exhausts manpower of pd with few law enforcement officers. It's difficult to respond to multiple accidents all within a short period of time. It seems that many small, rural police departments could use a few more officers, especially during winter months. For an officer to have to respond to multiple accidents on any one night within a short period of time creates unnecessary stress on him or her.

Your statement about the FBI not being accepted the brings you back to the question of why not are you hiding something. Maybe they NHsp are too proud to accept help? Maybe maybe not

Bill, we all know where you stand on the case and that is ok. Maybe you have more facts or maybe narrow minded either way it is ok, but many others including the police have an opposite opinion and that is ok too. Here is a quote that says something ominus could have happened.

The New Hampshire League of Investigators, ten retired police officers and detectives, and the Molly Bish Foundation started working on Maura's case in 2006.[20][34][35] Tom Shamshak, a former police chief and a member of the Licensed Private Detectives Association of Massachusetts said "It appears ... that this is something beyond a mere missing persons case. Something ominous could have happened here."[4][36]

I have to laugh and I am sorry if I wake up the others but Snowy and company remind me of the "FURBIE" remember the little hairy gremlin that would say the same things over and over when you woke them up?

with that I say goodnight all

jwb wrote:

I will try the rag in the tailpipe and see what happens. Do you think that a 4 cyc increases the chance of the rag not flying out as opposed to a 6 or 8 cyl? just a thought. Also wasn't it said that only of the cyl wasn't firing on her car?

I think any modern high compression engine will blow it out unless like you said a large leak and it would have to be so large that the exhaust noise would be very evident. As far as being pushed way in I think that may be another myth,if it was that far in I don't believe they would have seen it especially at the scene. Who looks into an exhaust pipe of a car with all the other factors going on.

jwb wrote:

<quoted text>
There was mention of a credit card but it may have been an atm card
From caledonian record:
During the past five years, not only has she not been seen or found, her credit card and cell phone have not been used. Nor has her bank account. Family and friends have heard nothing.

True my ATM can be used either way and many times its referred to as credit.

jwb wrote:

<quoted text>
Your statement about the FBI not being accepted the brings you back to the question of why not are you hiding something. Maybe they NHsp are too proud to accept help? Maybe maybe not

Sadly we have had in fighting amongst the state police and highway patrol here that borders childish. They have even warned motorist of speed traps set up by flashing their lights and in some cases sit on opposite sides of the courtroom among other foolish nonproductive games. Its mostly to do with the union and perhaps benefits I believe.

There are many cases of local and state PD having beefs with the feds for whatever reason and also pride and ego. Maybe they don't want to be second guessed by the feds and have it hit the media. Lawsuits could develop by family members if someone on the federal level just states an opinion saying they blew it at the local level which they may or may not have.

jwb wrote:

Bill, we all know where you stand on the case and that is ok. Maybe you have more facts or maybe narrow minded either way it is ok, but many others including the police have an opposite opinion and that is ok too. Here is a quote that says something ominus could have happened.
The New Hampshire League of Investigators, ten retired police officers and detectives, and the Molly Bish Foundation started working on Maura's case in 2006.[20][34][35] Tom Shamshak, a former police chief and a member of the Licensed Private Detectives Association of Massachusetts said "It appears ... that this is something beyond a mere missing persons case. Something ominous could have happened here."[4][36]

I agree to an extent, but in my 20 years in a leadership position and commanders battle staff adviser in the Air Force I have seen some very intelligent and experienced people jump to some conclusions and go off the reservation wholesale. I always try to look at the basic facts, consider the improbable but still go with what I had. Sometimes the answer is too obvious and simple and sometimes people don't think it can be that easy and make situations something they aren't.

I think perhaps the investigators having years of seeing the bad side of people and crime as it is tend to go with the worse case scenario. I feel in Maura's case when LE arrived they felt it was another case of a DUI fleeing the scene and I am sure the college decal on her window may have backed up that belief. They based this on experience.

After facts came to light that LE didn't have from the beginning and time progressed then comes the worse case scenario theory, which I am not totally against, its just I like facts when going to the far side. When there is a possible homicide investigation peoples lives are changed, reputations ruined and names dragged through the mud. Small town whispers don't go away easily.

I think at times LE has to take a step back also and evaluate the impact of their statements before they are made. To some of them its just business but to the people involved its their life.

I'd like to go back to the duct tape for a moment, our poster who claimed to find the tape with hair seemed to have vanished. My thoughts are how the hell does a secret like that stay silent in a small town.

Surely our poster would have told someone of his fantastic find, peoples ego's come into play and the hero syndrome kicks in. He did share it with the forum, then its safe to say he wasn't keeping it a secret. Then the I know something syndrome kicks in with whoever was told and gossip runs rampant.

NHwoodsman52 wrote:

I'd like to go back to the duct tape for a moment, our poster who claimed to find the tape with hair seemed to have vanished. My thoughts are how the hell does a secret like that stay silent in a small town.
Surely our poster would have told someone of his fantastic find, peoples ego's come into play and the hero syndrome kicks in. He did share it with the forum, then its safe to say he wasn't keeping it a secret. Then the I know something syndrome kicks in with whoever was told and gossip runs rampant.

I am very wary of this post/er since the poster never posted on topix before or after making the claim. As you say, there should have been local gossip. "Mathew" didn´t exactly keep quit, he posted it to topix, so why no local gossip. It doesn´t add up.

Correction to above post: keep quite. Dang it!

jwb wrote:

<quoted text>
Great points! I have thought that myself. One would hope those leads were followed but the idea that the condo owners that she called were not looked into by LE is very discerning. Most video tapes I believe will go for a month and then tape over themselves.This could possibly be a dropped ball.

Our video tapes are changed daily. We go through all 120 tapes until we begin anew. This system, and live monitoring with voice has been in place since 2003.
I'm thinking most major gas stations would have something like this back in 2004. But some security monitoring lets you run your tapes any way you want to. So unless police went checking these tapes right away, they may have been recorded over, I agree.

hannah_b wrote:

<quoted text>
I am very wary of this post/er since the poster never posted on topix before or after making the claim. As you say, there should have been local gossip. "Mathew" didn´t exactly keep quit, he posted it to topix, so why no local gossip. It doesn´t add up.

IMO it was a hoax. Not long after it was posted I asked someone that was in the position to know about it and they said they hadn't heard a thing. As you said he/she never posted before or after making that statement and no one has heard anything about it.

hannah_b wrote:

<quoted text>
I am very wary of this post/er since the poster never posted on topix before or after making the claim. As you say, there should have been local gossip. "Mathew" didn´t exactly keep quit, he posted it to topix, so why no local gossip. It doesn´t add up.

All I can say is my own Mother is one of those who WILL keep something to herself. If that something becomes known, she might add that she knew after all or make note to that effect. But she does not gossip. So I know that if she were to find something like "Matthew" did, she would keep it to herself. Amazing, I know, but true.

jwb wrote:

I have a feeling wowzer the real one will be visiting soon. anyone else have that feeling?

Aww, geewhiz it's nice to be missed. Sorry I couldn't be here but it was a very busy day and a busier night. Guess your feeling was wrong, maybe it was just a case of indigestion.

aftermath wrote:

<quoted text>
"In my opinion, we need to consider everything with the understanding that there is an unusual protocol procedure that is often at play in this case. The "facts" and documentation often cling to slippery slopes. Only phone records seem to be factual. Witness reports, even documentation cannot be considered factual in my opinion. Not in this case. For example, how often is there a case where a group works as dilingently as the one group on this site (for almost 7 years!) in an attempt to make people go away?'Tis rare.

So very true. This part of your post should be posted as a disclaimer for anyone new to this thread or to Maura´s case. But, it´s actually almost 8 years!

just me wrote:

<quoted text>
All I can say is my own Mother is one of those who WILL keep something to herself. If that something becomes known, she might add that she knew after all or make note to that effect. But she does not gossip. So I know that if she were to find something like "Matthew" did, she would keep it to herself. Amazing, I know, but true.

I assume she wouldn´t post it on topix while not talking to friends and family.

I just checked out (for the umpteenth time) the official accident report regarding Maura´s accident on Rte 112 in Swiftwater, as compiled by Officer Cecil Smith of the Haverhill,NH, PD, and available on the James Renner MM Blog.

One thing did strike me as perhaps somewhat worthy of some discussion here:

Officer Smith writes that he was assisted by Fire, EMS and a local resident (presumably the SBD, Mr Atwood) in searching for Maura in the evening of February 9th 2004.
There is no mention whatsoever of any NH State Trooper being on the scene and/or taking part in any kind of search for Maura.

I frankly find this somewhat odd.
If Officer Smith is being truthful in his report, and I feel certain that he is being truthful, then what about the supposed presence of NHSP Trooper J K-M on the scene?

I have been reading several reports over the years that this State Trooper supposedly went looking for Maura and even stopped for a brief conversation with the red truck witness RO in Swiftwater village.

Ideas, comments, theories?